Fox vs. Sony - who is worse?

[Mjölnir]

This is what I don't get, you hire a young up and coming director because they have a certain 'style' and then beat that style out of them.
Edgar Wright - Ant Man
Josh Trank - FF
Mark Webb ASM

Why bother to hire these guy in the first place? They'd be off going with established experienced directors they trust to make decisions.

The issue with Wright was more that the context of the MCU had changed significantly since he started to work on it and he wasn't willing to make the changes necessary to make the movie fit in. Marvel hired a less known guy than Wright and made the movie, and it's been a success. There's certainly still plenty of Wright left in the film as well, as his script wasn't just discarded.

 

[regnak]

They had a relapse. Took a step back.The FFINO felt like a Rothman era CBM. There's no excuse for the type of CBM like this in this day and age.

I wouldn't call it a step back. It more like the stairs flattened out, the movie slid down them, the floor opened up and it fell into a pit ... filled with spikes!

 

[DACrowe]

They had a relapse. Took a step back.The FFINO felt like a Rothman era CBM. There's no excuse for the type of CBM like this in this day and age.

The ending did. But honestly the first hour felt not like Rothman but more like Ang Lee's Hulk (but less successful because Trank is no Ang Lee). An attempt to make a horrific superhero movie. It kind of has weird value as such a bizarre and epic failure.

 

[Filmfreak]

Yeah I finally saw the new FF movie the day before yesterday and I really thought the first hour up until they went to Planet Zero showed some promise. Can't say it still didn't have problems but if anything it had a more serious and kind of different approach than most movies in the genre and felt descent. I like the Ang Lee comparison. Ever since they got their powers and especially ever since the "one year later" mark it went completely south of course with one of the worst endings in genre history.

And let's call it as it is, Fox is to blame. It was obvious that they followed a different path than the one Trank carved and they had no idea where they were going with it. So like I said it's a serious step back for the studio.

Having said that I insist that one shouldn't confuse the X-Men franchise with the FF where they obviously don't care. Bashing the studio overall is one thing but not acknowledging the fact that it's in a much better state now as a whole is another. Back then we had both ROTSS and XM: OW, now we have DOFP alongside the FF. If they do a an X-Men film that turns out to be a massive flop (again) I'll be the first to criticise them harshly and start losing serious faith in them but for now I trust where they're going with the franchise and I'm more excited for Apocalypse than any other cbm next year. I don't see the FF's failure affecting that or Deadpool.

 

[psylockolussus]

Sony is still worse for me. At least the first hour of FF2015 is serviceable. Spirit of Vengeance was just a loud mess from start to finish.

 

[Mjölnir]

Yeah I finally saw the new FF movie the day before yesterday and I really thought the first hour up until they went to Planet Zero showed some promise. Can't say it still didn't have problems but if anything it had a more serious and kind of different approach than most movies in the genre and felt descent. I like the Ang Lee comparison. Ever since they got their powers and especially ever since the "one year later" mark it went completely south of course with one of the worst endings in genre history.

And let's call it as it is, Fox is to blame. It was obvious that they followed a different path than the one Trank carved and they had no idea where they were going with it. So like I said it's a serious step back for the studio.

Having said that I insist that one shouldn't confuse the X-Men franchise with the FF where they obviously don't care. Bashing the studio overall is one thing but not acknowledging the fact that it's in a much better state now as a whole is another. Back then we had both ROTSS and XM: OW, now we have DOFP alongside the FF. If they do a an X-Men film that turns out to be a massive flop (again) I'll be the first to criticise them harshly and start losing serious faith in them but for now I trust where they're going with the franchise and I'm more excited for Apocalypse than any other cbm next year. I don't see the FF's failure affecting that or Deadpool.

Of course they care about the FF movies. Why in the world would they not care about a project they are investing a lot of money in? It's rather because they care that they intervened with the process, although the result was certainly not good (judging from what I hear about it, I'm not going to watch it). Then again we don't know what the movie was like before they removed Trank. It could have been terrible then as well, but probably not worse than it turned out.

A significant difference between Trank and Singer is that the latter is much more proven and the studio dares to let him do his thing to a far larger degree. But even given that context Singer probably still does not have final cut rights. Vaughn was less proven than Singer but was backed by him so he was probably in a better position than Trank at least, and imo he created the best X-Men movie this far (although that's a comparison where I don't compensate for that the older ones have aged a bit).

 

[Filmfreak]

I defended the reboot up to a certain degree but it's obvious they had no idea what they were doing.They cared about keeping the rights that's why they did another attempt just before they expired once again. But they were never ambitious enough to bring a big name director to handle the movie like they did with the X-Men (Singer, Vaughn, Wyatt, Mangold). Granted the FF had yet to prove itself as a property while the X-Men have been much more succesful but Fox never showed faith in the FF and they never took risks with the franchise.

So if you want a more indie type director why not give him the freedom to do what he wanted in the first place? Why decide he's not what you wanted halfway through production? Sure at this point we don't know if the whole Trank vision would have been better but it would have been something. This felt like two seperate movies in one that had absolutely no flow or consistency. And no vision.

 

[Mjölnir]

I defended the reboot up to a certain degree but it's obvious they had no idea what they were doing.They cared about keeping the rights that's why they did another attempt just before they expired once again. But they were never ambitious enough to bring a big name director to handle the movie like they did with the X-Men (Singer, Vaughn, Wyatt, Mangold). Granted the FF had yet to prove itself as a property while the X-Men have been much more succesful but Fox never showed faith in the FF and they never took risks with the franchise.

So if you want a more indie type director why not give him the freedom to do what he wanted in the first place? Why decide he's not what you wanted halfway through production? Sure at this point we don't know if the whole Trank vision would have been better but it would have been something. This felt like two seperate movies in one that had absolutely no flow or consistency. And no vision.

I'm not defending the movie, I'm just saying that the problems don't stem from Fox not caring.

I don't think you need to have a big name director to be ambitious either. Marvel didn't start with that and one of their most well-directed movies came from a pair of directors that were kind of "wtf names" when they were announced.

Trank was looking hot and they gave him the shot. Somewhere down the line they must have thought that what he was doing didn't look good to them. They removed him and either created something worse, or found that it was basically not salvageable.

In this case there's plenty of sources on the project that seem to condemn the studio, so I'm willing to believe they screwed it up, although plenty of the concept of what they set out to do was already making me skeptical.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Having said that I insist that one shouldn't confuse the X-Men franchise with the FF where they obviously don't care. Bashing the studio overall is one thing but not acknowledging the fact that it's in a much better state now as a whole is another. Back then we had both ROTSS and XM: OW, now we have DOFP alongside the FF. If they do a an X-Men film that turns out to be a massive flop (again) I'll be the first to criticise them harshly and start losing serious faith in them but for now I trust where they're going with the franchise and I'm more excited for Apocalypse than any other cbm next year. I don't see the FF's failure affecting that or Deadpool.

Agreed. They aren't made off an assembly line where all have an imprint of ones before. Each movie is handled differently and separate so FFs failure doesn't really relate to the other CBMs as there's different people involved

 

[TeeKay]

Agreed. They aren't made off an assembly line where all have an imprint of ones before. Each movie is handled differently and separate so FFs failure doesn't really relate to the other CBMs as there's different people involved

That's not true and you know it.

 

[First Avenger]

Yeah it's not like F4 and X-Men had the same writ...oh,wait.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Yeah it's not like F4 and X-Men had the same writ...oh,wait.

Didn't Singer handle most of the writing for the X-movies he was involved in? I know at the very least he came up with the main story concepts.

 

[First Avenger]

Didn't Singer handle most of the writing for the X-movies he was involved in? I know at the very least he came up with the main story concepts.

Singer's handling of a weak script is What ultimately sets his good movie(DoFP) apart from a turd (F4). Kinberg wrote both. I thought he got better after DoFP,I was SO wrong.

 

[Flint Marko]

That's not true and you know it.

You're talking to the same guy that swore up and down for months that Domashev would have a second costume different than what we saw in that set photo. Silly things like "facts" shouldn't get in the way of a good argument

 

[Infinity9999x]

Singer's handling of a weak script is What ultimately sets his good movie(DoFP) apart from a turd (F4). Kinberg wrote both. I thought he got better after DoFP,I was SO wrong.

From what I had heard, Singer handled more of the writing on DOFP than Kinberg. Or at the very least, hit the broad strokes. Similar to how Goyer is a writer on the Nolan Bat-films, but from what people say Nolan and his brother handled the brunt of the work.

 

[TeeKay]

Didn't Singer handle most of the writing for the X-movies he was involved in? I know at the very least he came up with the main story concepts.

He wrote X-Men: The Last stand and had uncredited script polishes in one of the Tim Story FF films. And then he wrote Tranks FF.

Spoiler

DofP was largely saved by Singer. Kinbergs script was not that good. I have one of the dofp drafts and its well LOL. That's all I'll say for now.

 

[First Avenger]

From what I had heard, Singer handled more of the writing on DOFP than Kinberg. Or at the very least, hit the broad strokes. Similar to how Goyer is a writer on the Nolan Bat-films, but from what people say Nolan and his brother handled the brunt of the work.

I can totally see that to be honest. You're probably right.

 

[First Avenger]

He wrote X-Men: The Last stand and had uncredited script polishes in one of the Tim Story FF films. And then he wrote Tranks FF.

Spoiler

DofP was largely saved by Singer. Kinbergs script was not that good. I have one of the dofp drafts and its well LOL. That's all I'll say for now.

Interesting Tee. Is it really that different? Anything you can share with us?

 

[Flint Marko]

Was the antidote that magically took away Xavier's powers yet gave him his legs in that script? That screams kinberg.

 

[Filmfreak]

Yeah Kinberg is not the best of writers and has quite a few failures under his belt but given the right director/co-writers he can do a really good job. Sort of like Goyer.

I certainly don't trust Kinberg but I do trust Singer and if I hadn't seen DOFP I'd be more than skeptical with him handling the whole screenplay. Seriously though I don't see any cause for an alarm. Singer has 3 wins and 0 loses (maybe 4 if one counts his collaboration in FC) with each movie being consider better than the previous one. Doesn't mean he can't fail and a 4th entry is kind of a risk but he's definitely won the benefit of a doubt so far in terms of the X franchise.

The truth is I would be more comfortable without Kinberg but oh well...

 

[TeeKay]

Dialogue was way worse and yes the antidote thing was there. Heck he turned Apocalypse into an alien. You can definitely sew that Singer drastically changed some things. Inclusion of Quicksilver, dialogue etc Main story is still the same but dialogue, some story ideas were different. If people really wanna pin the success of DoFP, I really want them to read Kinbergs draft. Lol

 

[First Avenger]

What a hack. So that Apocalypse rumour was true? Lawd. I mean I still love DoFP and don't think X3 is that bad but his work on FFINO is just...

 

[EssayM]

I would say Fox. They have more failures in more franchises than Sony, but also more successes, so you can't just chalk it up to incompetence. We know they can do better, so it's more disappointing when they screw up.

 

[Val_Zod]

This is what I don't get, you hire a young up and coming director because they have a certain 'style' and then beat that style out of them.
Edgar Wright - Ant Man
Josh Trank - FF
Mark Webb ASM

Why bother to hire these guy in the first place? They'd be off going with established experienced directors they trust to make decisions.

Wright has been a director for over 20 years. Hardly a young, up and coming director. He's simply never broken out to mainstream.

 

[TeeKay]

What a hack. So that Apocalypse rumour was true? Lawd. I mean I still love DoFP and don't think X3 is that bad but his work on FFINO is just...

Yep.