From THE CHAMPIONS to THE ORDER

[TheCorpulent1]

Haha, he probably dreads each day now.

 

[PhotoJones]

He seems to have fun with it. I just don't think it's serving it's intended purpose.

 

[GNR]

They must have a very faulty screening process in California."She's clean,she was part of a gang of superpowered punks calling themselves the Black Dahlias,but it's cool."

 

[PhotoJones]

Eh, nothing's perfect.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe they didn't know about the Black Dahlias when they screened her and she kept quiet about it. The Order didn't know anything about the Black Dahlias in the last issue, and I doubt her membership in their gang is something that would show up on any paperwork.

 

[PhotoJones]

That's what I was thinking. We really don't know anything about them, either, other then the fact that Kitson's cover for that issue was killer.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Maybe they didn't know about the Black Dahlias when they screened her and she kept quiet about it. The Order didn't know anything about the Black Dahlias in the last issue, and I doubt her membership in their gang is something that would show up on any paperwork.

Similar to any recruitment. You don't TELL them the bad things you've done. It's just a tattoo to them.

 

[Dread]

T-Voort's bloggity blog.

http://www.marvel.com/blogs/Tom_Brevoort/entry/969

Namor must be the guy who washes up on the coast of Cali at the end of #6.

Interesting. It should be very interesting.

Considering the sales, I'm glad Fraction stuck to an honorable guest appearance with Namor, and not a shameless sales one, like Spider-Man, Hulk, Wolverine, Punisher, or X-23.

They must have a very faulty screening process in California."She's clean,she was part of a gang of superpowered punks calling themselves the Black Dahlias,but it's cool."

Maybe they didn't know about the Black Dahlias when they screened her and she kept quiet about it. The Order didn't know anything about the Black Dahlias in the last issue, and I doubt her membership in their gang is something that would show up on any paperwork.

Similar to any recruitment. You don't TELL them the bad things you've done. It's just a tattoo to them.

That's my take on Muholland's secret. They had no idea the gang existed until this issue, so all they knew was that it was some funky tattoo. Or maybe they didn't even know about the tattoo; it isn't like tats are illegal. Did The Order require everyone to strip to their skivvies during the interview process? So far all those interviews are with clothes on.

"Tim Burton apparently sponsors a women's golf team." Still the funniest line of the issue to me.

 

[PhotoJones]

Considering the sales, I'm glad Fraction stuck to an honorable guest appearance with Namor, and not a shameless sales one, like Spider-Man, Hulk, Wolverine, Punisher, or X-23.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Fraction do a Punisher/Order crossover at some point.

 

[Dread]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Fraction do a Punisher/Order crossover at some point.

Punisher War Journal is his best selling book, unless I am mistaken.

Anyway, I wouldn't for the moment. It would just seem obligatory. Punisher can't kill any of The Order, the Order can't arrest him. I've seen so many stock guest appearances that I just get tired of seeing more. Unless it means something, I'd rather they not bother.

That's not to say Fraction, Kitson & Company couldn't make a showdown with Castle fun. But it would just seem obligatory, like "oh, of course" with the rolleyes . Besides, I don't care what baloney weapons Punisher has from Clarke, he shouldn't be able to escape the Order if they actually gunned for him seriously. They're of decent power level.

I'm interested in the characters, not stunts.

 

[PhotoJones]

Obligatory or not, at least you can see that it would be a ton of fun. And I didn't mean to imply that I'd like to see this right now. I think I mentioned "at some point." I was thinking sometime down the road, you know, when the The Order is in the #30's.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Frank's pretty good at escaping from just about everything. It wouldn't really be forced for him to chase some villain to California, either. Honestly, we scoff at how forced or formulaic a lot of character crossovers are, but at the end of the day they're just a hell of a lot of fun more often than not. I wouldn't mind seeing Frank turn up in The Order's book.

 

[PhotoJones]

He drove to Texas to kill the Hate-Monger, so anything's possible.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

He's travelled to other countries to kill a single person before.

 

[PhotoJones]

No doubt. I was just talking about Frank's adventures under Fraction's pen since "returning" to the MU.

 

[Dread]

Obligatory or not, at least you can see that it would be a ton of fun. And I didn't mean to imply that I'd like to see this right now. I think I mentioned "at some point." I was thinking sometime down the road, you know, when the The Order is in the #30's.

At this point, while I love THE ORDER, I have less faith in the direct market and on Marvel's trigger finger, and am essentially braced for the series ending with issue #12. Once the sales figures for November are in, we'll have some better idea of where things stand, but I'm not expecting a miracle.

In a way, out of all books, THE ORDER should demand patience because it is a brand new franchise, and they can take a while to gain steam. DC's BLUE BEETLE whiffs on sales most months, but they know to keep it around because maintaining new characters (or legacies) is good in the long term, especially when they seem to be critically praised. Of course, DC has had Vertigo, an entire line that is more about producing art vs. sales. Marvel's never had that; books gotta sell or get wasted. They also may have issues building for long term, as in beyond a year. They see little use in building foundations if a book dips out of the Top 100. To be fair, that's better than 3-4 years ago when a book was dead if it dipped into the Top 85 by issue #6; these days all ongoings last a year, even if they dive like BLADE.

As for "the fun factor", of course I'd think no matter how obligatory it'd feel, Fraction & Co. could make it work. I was groaning a bit at the P:WJ tie in with WWH, but then it turned out to be frickin' hilarious, like an episode of THE VENTURE BROS. Some people dislike that angle with Punisher, but I don't mind it every now and again. Especially after all the back-history Ennis added (like Castle being a frickin' sadist during 'Nam way before his family was killed), he really does seem like a Brock Samson type of character if seen from certain angles.

Frank's pretty good at escaping from just about everything. It wouldn't really be forced for him to chase some villain to California, either. Honestly, we scoff at how forced or formulaic a lot of character crossovers are, but at the end of the day they're just a hell of a lot of fun more often than not. I wouldn't mind seeing Frank turn up in The Order's book.

Oh, I know it wouldn't be an issue for Castle to wind up in California, especially in his hunt for super-villains these days. I even doubt the issue would be bad at all. I'd just rather Fraction, Kitson & Co. use as many issues as they can to develop this team of new characters, because I fear they may only have so many issues.

I compare this to RUNAWAYS, but in a way RUNAWAYS success was a fluke and sometimes repeating that lightening in a bottle, that low selling "hit" that no matter what manages to keep coming back (like SPIDER-GIRL) is hard. Unfortunately I feel this book suffered too things: Initiative Fatigue and Zero Faith in new Properties in the Direct Market, even from Big Two companies. Whether they are good launches or bad, new franchises just seem to be doomed from arrival without relying on creative team hype.

I'd like for THE ORDER to manage to survive like that. Just my head for the moment says it is unlikely. So I want to enjoy it while I can, and hopefully without distracting stunts like Castle or Skrulls.

I mean, I doubt Namor is there because Fraction expects a boost. When was the last time Namor made any book sell more? Obviously there is some point there.

There may be some who may argue, "without shameless guest spots, The Order won't feel official", but that's baloney. Endless guest appearances have never, EVER saved a book's sales for the long term. MOON KNIGHT had a parade of guests for it's sluggish CW tie in and they didn't help one whit. Spider-Man guest starring in the second issue of a new series was a cliche for most of the 90's. THE ORDER has worked wonderfully without that stuff.

 

[GNR]

He's travelled to other countries to kill a single person before.

now that's my kind of hero

 

[PhotoJones]

Preview for #6, apparently out this month:

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[PhotoJones]

Spoiler

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Awesome, I've wanted to know more about Supernaut for some time now.

 

[PhotoJones]

His character design, in and out of the suit, is great.

 

[GNR]

The Order dropped a bit from 66 last issue,then again,I don't know how to properly read these.

 

[Dread]

I can't wait for issue #6, Supernaut will be super. Bad pun. But his story is pretty cool, and you can't go wrong fighting giant monsters in the desert. And we have development of the bad-guys. And Supernaut proving you don't need a mech to be bad-ass.

As for sales, yes, THE ORDER #4 sold at #78, when in September, issue #3 sold at #66. The series has been seeing a 10% drop or higher in sales with every issue and that may have happened again, which isn't good as that would put THE ORDER in the 29-30k range, which is a danger zone. If it cannot find a level fast it may be off the Top 100 by issue #7 or #8 and then likely will be canned by #12.

On the plus side, December will actually see two issues ship, and I wonder if that will help sales stablized.

This is a brand new franchise of characters that is being expertly drawn and written, and I hope it sticks around. One day, Marvel will have to stop relying on characters created during WWII or the Silver Age, but if the direct market won't allow that to happen...

 

[Dread]

Semper Fi! Reposting my review of this speedy new issue:

THE ORDER #6: The second issue within 4 weeks of this title, which hopefully won't mean delays are ahead in future issues. I also hope this double-dose will help to get sales stable, because they are slipping for this terrific new franchise way too quickly. As the cover notes, Milo Fields/Supernaut gets the introduction and the focus here, and as predicted by some, he is all action.

Spoiler

A former soldier turned anti-war activist, who was shot in the spine for speaking the truth (and while he has issues with the administration, he DOESN'T have issues with the military or war itself, which is a good way to keep him from being a liberal cliche), he was naturally called to duty and given his giant mech armor. I don't quite understand why they empowered everyone else organically, at least for a year, but not him. Is it because of his injury? Or because with the armor, he could essentially work for the Initiative for as long as he cuts it, beyond a year? He certainly has the training and guts to do so. He are Aralune are taking out some giant turtle monsters, and a scorpion, in the middle of the desert until things go from bad to worse when they find out it is a S.H.A.D.O.W. testing facility, and a trap TKO's Aralune and shorts out the Supernaut armor. But does that stop Milo? Hell no, sir. He shoot the **** out of that giant scorpion, and when that fails, a big enough rock'll do. Meanwhile, Henry & Pepper get some more info about Muholland's past and her dealings with the Black Dahlias, who work with the M.A.N. to acquire enough SPIN-tech to capture her; nice to know Fraction is playing around with the rest of the MU. That fact is shown later on, when a very irked sea-king decides to make his presence known. Namor has had a rough year so I'll be interested in his appearance next issue.

Much like IRON FIST, this is review proof. Frankly I think it is the best Marvel team book on the market right now, and it is taking the place of RUNAWAYS in my geek heart. Unfortunately, their sales had better get stable or it won't have a prayer of lasting even 18 issues. Buy it, people. If this book fails, trying to introduce good new characters into the MU will only get harder.

 

[PhotoJones]

Can this book be any better? I'm floored by what Fraction and Kitson are doing here. This is hands down, Marvel's best team book in years.