Game of Thrones General (Non-Book Related) Discussion Thread - Part 1

[squeekness]

The biggest trouble I had with the lighting was telling the dragons apart.

This was me as well.

 

[Breogan]

...what if by killing him, Arya marked herself to become the new NK? Im not sure if thats something we will see play out.... This could be the true final battle with Jon forced to fight and kill his younger sister

Well if you are right, there is the prophesy of Azor Ahai part of which to come to pass someone has to kill someone they love.
So if John now has to kill (not Dani as some suspected or vice versa) but its Jon now has to kill Aria, that would be pretty damn tragic.
Although I still think the sacrifice to bring new age of peace, is John (whose already dead, and so far his return hasn't fulfilled anything) was brought back to actually sacrifice himself. He needs to go.

 

[Breogan]

The new motto:
...spring and summer is coming!

 

[Lencho01]

I'm still loling at dothraki mass suicide.

Letting the calvary of brown people die first.

 

[Breogan]

Letting the calvary of brown people die first.

That was weird, and just hanging back and watching as they are extinguished.
Although I'm being told (somewhat convincingly) that there is in fact some strategic military precedence for this, they do use the cavalry that way, the foot soldiers hang back while the cavalry breaks up and scatters, their front line.
Then the foot soldiers come in once its broken. .
So it was more about the use of horses, Dothraki just happened to be who rode them, so knowing the military aspect, if you are focusing on their skin color, that's on you,
The emphasis was to show the classic maneuver didn't work, ...because zombies don't scatter, or run, or have fear, to avoid getting hit, they just stay there, hold their ground, get trampled, and the next one just fills in the line. Until the cavalry was just completley consumed. That's the look of horror on everyone face.

 

[MaceB]

That was weird, and just hanging back and watching as they are extinguished.
Although I'm being told (somewhat convincingly) that there is in fact some strategic military precedence for this, they do use the cavalry that way, the foot solders hang back while the calvalry breaks up and scatters any order their front line.
Then the foot soldiers come in.
So it was more about the horses, Dothraki just happened to be who rode them, focusing on their color is on you.
Also the emphasis was this maneuver didn't work, well because zombies don't scatter, or run to avoid getting hit, they just stay there hold there ground, get trampled, and the next one just fills in the line. Until the cavalry was just completley consumed, hence the look of horror on everyone face.

I've actually been hearing the opposite.. that running your calvary into the thick of the crowd is unusual.. that they are usually used to flank the army from the sides. I can't say I know one way or another though.

It certainly was a beautiful shot to see all the swords fire up. And then to just wait there as the lights came out... built quite a bit of good suspense.

But I was thinking.... isn't weird to send all your most valuable players into the thick of a much larger army that you can't see? Hmm..

 

[antsman41]

It reminded me of Zimmer's Dunkirk score. Actually the whole episode had a similar vibe.

Hints of that and TDK.

 

[Lencho01]

‘Game of Thrones’ Cinematographer Defends the Dark Lighting Choices of “The Long Night”

That was weird, and just hanging back and watching as they are extinguished.
Although I'm being told (somewhat convincingly) that there is in fact some strategic military precedence for this, they do use the cavalry that way, the foot soldiers hang back while the cavalry breaks up and scatters, their front line.
Then the foot soldiers come in once its broken. .
So it was more about the use of horses, Dothraki just happened to be who rode them, so knowing the military aspect, if you are focusing on their skin color, that's on you,
The emphasis was to show the classic maneuver didn't work, ...because zombies don't scatter, or run, or have fear, to avoid getting hit, they just stay there, hold their ground, get trampled, and the next one just fills in the line. Until the cavalry was just completley consumed. That's the look of horror on everyone face.

This article basically explains why the whole battle was the wrong way to go about this in a real situation. With regards to the Dothraki, since they're the cavalry, they wouldn't have gone into battle at that point just yet.

Also, based on the episode, I think Dany wasn't meant fly into the battle yet too. But, she somehow was moved by her warriors getting snuffed out even though that should've been expected at least.

 

[Iceman]

The NK and his whole army that were absolutely decimating the North were way way too vulnerable to a single stab wound to the NK. That was disappointing after seeing him come out of dragonfire unscathed (which was great).

And after all these myths and legends I wanted the White Walkers also to pose a significant threat regardless of the NK. They didn't get any action in this episode, it was all wights (athough good to see the giant wight and the dragon for variety).

 

[Iceman]

I've actually been hearing the opposite.. that running your calvary into the thick of the crowd is unusual.. that they are usually used to flank the army from the sides. I can't say I know one way or another though.

It certainly was a beautiful shot to see all the swords fire up. And then to just wait there as the lights came out... built quite a bit of good suspense.

But I was thinking.... isn't weird to send all your most valuable players into the thick of a much larger army that you can't see? Hmm..

I kind of liked all that but on the flipside we have been building up the Dothraki as a formidable force over so many seasons that they needed their moment against other forces. Have they all been wiped out?

 

[MaceB]

There's not a much more overused trope these days than the single destruct button army. How many stories have we seen in which an unstoppable force of drones, clones, aliens, or monsters are defeated in a single blow? It'll be nice when our narrative video skills grow beyond that get-out-of-jail free card.

I think the Dothraki might be done... yeah... and the Sully army must be pretty down to the nil as well at this point. It's exactly how Cersei planned, that beautiful evil woman. It'll be interesting to see where it goes between her and Jaime.

I'm afraid to watch EP3 again honestly. This was the first episode since I've been a fan, where I had neutral to poor reaction. My immediate reaction was pretty nasty... then I whinged about it online the next day... and I guess now I'm going to give it another go.

 

[DACrowe]

I still don't get why so many folks think Jon HAD to be the one to kill the Night King?

 

[Lencho01]

I still don't get why so many folks think Jon HAD to be the one to kill the Night King?

I thought it was because he's like the main character and all that stuff from Melisandre.

 

[Lencho01]

 

[Incredible Hans]

I still don't get why so many folks think Jon HAD to be the one to kill the Night King?

Same here.

On the one hand, people complain that GoT has changed and the unexpected no longer happens.

Then, the whole Night King / Jon Snow thing doesn't happen the way they expected, and they complain again.

 

[Incredible Hans]

There's not a much more overused trope these days than the single destruct button army.

Maybe an even more overused trope is "the battle seems lost, but then the cavalry comes to the rescue at the very last moment", which happened at the Battle of Bastards and Blackwater Bay (and Helm's Deep and Pelennor... and the Battle of Wakanda in Black Panther AND Infinity War...).

 

[MaceB]

I still don't get why so many folks think Jon HAD to be the one to kill the Night King?

It's not necessarily that he had to. It's just that that was the expectation that was fully encouraged by the writers. The Night King is Jon's main obstacle... has been from the very beginning. And Jon is basically the Night King's main obstacle. They were the only ones who had seen each other in the flesh. Then, the Lord or Light brought Jon back... the lord most connected to Melisandre... and again, the Long Night and the Night King. Melissandre says someone has to be the Prince, and from that moment on, her opinion... for what it's worth... is always very confident that Jon is the Prince that is promised. Jon's heritage only adds to the idea that he is big good of the show, and it'd be natural for him to go up against the big bad.

So with all that, I guess the question is... why would the writers go out of their way not to have Jon kill the Night King? It's not like they couldn't have gone that route... the episode could have been basically the same. What does Arya doing it add to the story? She doesn't know the Night King. It's not more personal. Is she really thought of as THAT much better of a fighter than Jon? And how does this conclude Arya's arc like some have said? I just don't get that. Being confident in herself was never Arya's problem. In this episode alone, she's paralyzed by fear but then also incredibly brave. What am I supposed to take from that? It's not like this represents some new era of growth for her... as far as I can tell.

The only value it brings, as far as I can tell, is shock value. The value of the twist... which maybe the writers think is the GOT signature. I've certainly never thought that. And I've been saying for days now. The finale is not the time for a twist. After 8 years, I really don't want my expectations subverted. Emotionally, it feels like Jon got robbed here. It's different than pulling out a twist in season 3... At that point, a twist leads to new possibilities and intriguing new storylines. Here, it just leaves a disappointing feeling of what could have been.

 

[Incredible Hans]

It's not necessarily that he had to. It's just that that was the expectation that was fully encouraged by the writers.

... and in Season 1, the expectation that was encouraged was that Ned Stark is the main character of GOT, and we all know how that turned out.

Sorry, I don't get it. Not happening what everyone expects is what defines GoT.

At that point, you cannot know that the only reason why it was done by Arya was for shock value. There are still 3 episodes left. Arya being a much more important character than everyone thought could be the major plot twist of this season.

 

[Incredible Hans]

The finale is not the time for a twist.

On the contrary. I will be very disappointed if there is NO twist in the finale.

 

[MaceB]

... and in Season 1, the expectation that was encouraged was that Ned Stark is the main character of GOT, and we all know how that turned out.

Sorry, I don't get it. Not happening what everyone expects is what defines GoT.

At that point, you cannot know that the only reason why it was done by Arya was for shock value. There are still 3 episodes left. Arya being a much more important character than everyone thought could be the major plot twist of this season.

I just said this. The value it seems to bring it exactly what you just mention - shock value. Oh... twists are what we are known for, so here's one last twist - enjoy. I'm sorry, but that's lame. Like I said, twists in the beginning and middle of a series - cool! Twists at the very end after you've spent years building up expectations - not cool.

Imagine if Frodo died in Two Towers, and Legolas had to take on the ring. Most of us would be like, "woe! I didn't see that coming! But... at least this takes the story in new places, and maybe there's something about the elvish... this could be interesting." Okay... but now imagine that instead of that, Frodo died in Return of the King right before he entered the entrance in Mordor. At the last second, Legolas flies in, snatches the ring, and drops it into the volcano. Well... that'd be a surprise, but a crap one. That's not what we expected or wanted.

I agree that the writers have every ability to correct this. I think they will. I think there is more going on with the Lord of Light, and killing the Night King had consequences. But if this truly were the end, then this purposeful misdirection on behalf of the writers, that completely abandons a good portion of Jon's story. I don't think anyone can blame me for being upset for being disappointed that I didn't get the resolution that the show pretty much promised me. This isn't my screwball theory... Jon being the Prince who was promised and on a path to combat the Night King is very clearly where the show was leading me, and now I'll never see it.

 

[MaceB]

On the contrary. I will be very disappointed if there is NO twist in the finale.

Twists should be earned, not forced. This felt forced.

 

[Incredible Hans]

I just said this. The value it seems to bring it exactly what you just mention - shock value. Oh... twists are what we are known for, so here's one last twist - enjoy. I'm sorry, but that's lame. Like I said, twists in the beginning and middle of a series - cool! Twists at the very end after you've spent years building up expectations - not cool.

Imagine if Frodo died in Two Towers, and Legolas had to take on the ring. Most of us would be like, "woe! I didn't see that coming! But... at least this takes the story in new places, and maybe there's something about the elvish... this could be interesting." Okay... but now imagine that instead of that, Frodo died in Return of the King right before he entered the entrance in Mordor. At the last second, Legolas flies in, snatches the ring, and drops it into the volcano. Well... that'd be a surprise, but a crap one. That's not what we expected or wanted.

I agree that the writers have every ability to correct this. I think they will. I think there is more going on with the Lord of Light, and killing the Night King had consequences. But if this truly were the end, then this purposeful misdirection on behalf of the writers, that completely abandons a good portion of Jon's story. I don't think anyone can blame me for being upset for being disappointed that I didn't get the resolution that the show pretty much promised me. This isn't my screwball theory... Jon being the Prince who was promised and on a path to combat the Night King is very clearly where the show was leading me, and now I'll never see it.

I have different opinion on that. The episode certainly had its flaws, but for me, the Arya stuff wasn't one of them.

For me, the Jon confronting the Night King, having a big sword fight and killing the villain would have been boring. It would have been a step down to the storylines of more conventional fantasy stories. GoT isn't LOTR (although LOTR is great too), GoT is a further development of that straightforward concept of fantasy. And therefore, yes, if George R. R. Martin was the author of LOTR, the ending certainly wouldn't have been "Frodo destroys the ring and goes home". Tolkien is great, but there is no need to copy Tolkien again and again.

 

[Incredible Hans]

Twists should be earned, not forced. This felt forced.

Not for me.

And I don't see what "it wasn't earned" is supposed to mean in that context.

 

[MaceB]

Not for me.

And I don't see what "it wasn't earned" is supposed to mean in that context.

Arya has nothing to do with the Night King. Absolutely nothing. Her killing him is no more meaningful than Clegane killing him... or Jaime or Brianne or Melisandre, or Pod, or Sansa. Arya doing it adds nothing. Whereas Jon doing it would have added all this emotional weight because it really meant something to him. It's been his main story for 8 years, and his sister just finished it for him in 2 moves and 10 seconds. If you can't see how that is hugely deflating, then I don't know what to say. They could have at least made it a team effort, where the Night King was going after Jon, and then Arya surprise attacked.. Maybe they'll turn this around next episode. But as it is right now, it's the absolute worst decision made in the entire show. It's an insult, honestly.

 

[Incredible Hans]

Arya has nothing to do with the Night King. Absolutely nothing.

Are you serious? That guy is just about killing her brother. Wiping out her whole family, home and country.