Solo General News/Discussion Thread-Solo: A Star Wars Story. - Part 1

[writer0327]

Serious question. What if what they were making was bad? Should they have just put it out?

Nope, but they should have stopped it 3 months ago, not with 3 weeks of principle photography remaining.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Nope, but they should have stopped it 3 months ago, not with 3 weeks of principle photography remaining.

And it has been stated more then once, the problems became apparent once they started putting it together and then Lord and Miller refused to play ball.

 

[writer0327]

That's exactly the problem because it sounds like they think they were. Their improvisational style also seems to be something that Lucasfilm wasn't aware of. Like I said, from what I read, the Han Solo actor was even having problems because he was accused of whining and tattling.

So did Lucasfilm just roll with a couple of hot directors and not really understand what they were getting into? Sounds like it.

What I'm afraid of is the studio not allowing directors to have a voice. SW will not thrive on predictability.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So did Lucasfilm just roll with a couple of hot directors and not really understand what they were getting into? Sounds like it.

What I'm afraid of is the studio not allowing directors to have a voice. SW will not thrive on predictability.

TFA is clearly a JJ Abrams film. Rogue One has all the problems of a Gareth Edwards film and thus they had to save it. No indication at all that TLJ isn't a Rian Johnson film.

 

[writer0327]

And it has been stated more then once, the problems became apparent once they started putting it together and then Lord and Miller refused to play ball.

And perhaps this is much ado over nothing, but it concerns me that Lucasfilm seems to have clearly trusted these guys without really verifying what they were really buying. Like did you not realize who these filmmakers were and what their style was? Did you have any kind of conversation with anyone outside of your own offices? It just seems to me this is a problem that could've been avoided altogether with some due diligence.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And perhaps this is much ado over nothing, but it concerns me that Lucasfilm seems to have clearly trusted these guys without really verifying what they were really buying. Like did you not realize who these filmmakers were and what their style was? Did you have any kind of conversation with anyone outside of your own offices? It just seems to me this is a problem that could've been avoided altogether with some due diligence.

Knowing a style and the discussions of the type of movie they would make are two totally different ideas.

Matthew Vaughn can make Stardust, Layer Cake and Kick-Ass. Joe Wright can make Hanna, Pride & Prejudice, and Atonement.

 

[writer0327]

TFA is clearly a JJ Abrams film. Rogue One has all the problems of a Gareth Edwards film and thus they had to save it. No indication at all that TLJ isn't a Rian Johnson film.

Right and maybe they just didn't like the style of Lord and Miller or the film they were making and that's all it is. But we know how protective Lucasfilm is with SW - and rightfully so - but it concerns me that right off the bat the directors they are hiring for the standalones have been met with some perceived resistance, partially because of a difference in tone. I was hoping that the standalones would be the arena where SW can expand into different styles of storytelling. Maybe it still will.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Right and maybe they just didn't like the style of Lord and Miller or the film they were making and that's all it is. But we know how protective Lucasfilm is with SW - and rightfully so - but it concerns me that right off the bat the directors they are hiring for the standalones have been met with some perceived resistance, partially because of a difference in tone. I was hoping that the standalones would be the arena where SW can expand into different styles of storytelling. Maybe it still will.

Star Wars is always going to be an action adventure. Its Star Wars. The tone will change, as it has with every movie. But there is little point in making a Star Wars movie that takes the action adventure out of it.

 

[writer0327]

Knowing a style and the discussions of the type of movie they would make are two totally different ideas.

Matthew Vaughn can make Stardust, Layer Cake and Kick-Ass. Joe Wright can make Hanna, Pride & Prejudice, and Atonement.

For instance, if Lord and Miller have used improv on every film they've made so far, and Lucasfilm knew this (or shoulda known), then one of two things happened. Either Lucasfilm wasn't aware of how this would truly impact the story/production/actors/crew/everything (God I hope not) or they were lied to about how much it would be used. Either way, coulda been avoided with a couple of extra phone calls to get a little background info before having the reigns to arguably SW's favorite character to these guys.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

For instance, if Lord and Miller have used improv on every film they've made so far, and Lucasfilm knew this (or shoulda known), then one of two things happened. Either Lucasfilm wasn't aware of how this would truly impact the story/production/actors/crew/everything (God I hope not) or they were lied to about how much it would be used. Either way, coulda been avoided with a couple of extra phone calls to get a little background info before having the reigns to arguably SW's favorite character to these guys.

Considering the consistent tensions, I assume they said they'd cut back and did so on some occasions and then others went overboard.

 

[writer0327]

Considering the consistent tensions, I assume they said they'd cut back and did so on some occasions and then others went overboard.

Right and ultimately Lucasfilm said, "Um, we don't like this stuff..." and canned them.

Which at this point, I'm 50/50 on that move, because if the film comes it and it's fantastic, no one cares, right? But if it comes out and its lukewarm, if it's decent or just "okay" then we start to wonder..."I wonder what that Lord and Miller version would've been like?"

All avoided with a couple of calls...but anywho.... let's go Ron Howard! ????

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Right and ultimately Lucasfilm said, "Um, we don't like this stuff..." and canned them.

Which at this point, I'm 50/50 on that move, because if the film comes it and it's fantastic, no one cares, right? But if it comes out and its lukewarm, if it's decent or just "okay" then we start to wonder..."I wonder what that Lord and Miller version would've been like?"

All avoided with a couple of calls...but anywho.... let's go Ron Howard! ????

No, they told them they'd work on it. Have someone on set to oversee reshoots. Lord and Miller didn't agree, then they got fired.

 

[TheVileOne]

Why do we assume there wasn't? Lord and Miller lying or going back on their word is such an impossible idea?

Honestly Darth, I assume nothing, that's why I'm asking these questions. I'm reading these reports and a lot of thing aren't adding up.

 

[TheVileOne]

No, they told them they'd work on it. Have someone on set to oversee reshoots. Lord and Miller didn't agree, then they got fired.

Is that really fair though? They hired them for a reason. These aren't flavors of the month, Lord and Miller worked hard to establish themselves. They aren't just coming in on their second movie. They've done a number of hit features and TV projects already. So now they have buyer's remorse and they don't stand by them?

Robert Zemeckis had to deal with a lot of issues while filming Roger Rabbit. Before the animation and visuals were done, the movie didn't look good at all, and people didn't know what the hell they were watching. Zemeckis stood his ground and they finished it and they made something classic, iconic and different.

I'm not saying this is the same thing, but I'm also saying what's going on here? Are they going to let these filmmakers, these artists, do the job you hired them to do or not?

Now yeah there are those stories about the production issues, setting up late, and not doing the extra camera setups and all that. But who even knows if that's true or accurate?

 

[The Guard]

And it has been stated more then once, the problems became apparent once they started putting it together and then Lord and Miller refused to play ball.

That's just it.

If they're utilizing any kind of reasonable oversight, there's no reason for said problems to have just become apparent.

These do not sound like subtle differences in approach to filmmaking. These sound like major elements of the way Lord and Miller direct that you'd pretty much have to be blind not to see, and that producers/writers, etc should know would clash with their process long before this point.

I suppose there's always the chance that no one said anything and they decided they had carte blanche and went off the rails toward the end of filming.

But then much of the problem then becomes that no one said anything. If you don't communicate and set clear expectations as a production team, you can hardly be surprised when creators fail to deliver a product that meets your expectations.

More and more, it seems like someone was asleep at the wheel.

 

[Sithborg]

That's exactly the problem because it sounds like they think they were. Their improvisational style also seems to be something that Lucasfilm wasn't aware of. Like I said, from what I read, the Han Solo actor was even having problems because he was accused of whining and tattling.

Or, they gave the impression when initially talked about coming on board that they knew they would change their style. I mean, I doubt Feige hired the Russos expecting them to film the Winter Soldier like You, Me, and Dupree. And then their sucesses got to their head that they knew more than Kathleen Kennedy.

 

[writer0327]

Is that really fair though? They hired them for a reason. These aren't flavors of the month, Lord and Miller worked hard to establish themselves. They aren't just coming in on their second movie. They've done a number of hit features and TV projects already. So now they have buyer's remorse and they don't stand by them?

Robert Zemeckis had to deal with a lot of issues while filming Roger Rabbit. Before the animation and visuals were done, the movie didn't look good at all, and people didn't know what the hell they were watching. Zemeckis stood his ground and they finished it and they made something classic, iconic and different.

I'm not saying this is the same thing, but I'm also saying what's going on here? Are they going to let these filmmakers, these artists, do the job you hired them to do or not?

Now yeah there are those stories about the production issues, setting up late, and not doing the extra camera setups and all that. But who even knows if that's true or accurate?

I agree 100% with everything you said...

... and I still would've been okay with Lucasfilm pulling the plug 3 months ago. To do it with 3 weeks left is problematic.

But, yeah, why hire an artist and not let him finish the painting when he's almost done. Just don't hire him in the first place. This stuff is making me wish our brother George was here.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Is that really fair though? They hired them for a reason. These aren't flavors of the month, Lord and Miller worked hard to establish themselves. They aren't just coming in on their second movie. They've done a number of hit features and TV projects already. So now they have buyer's remorse and they don't stand by them?

Robert Zemeckis had to deal with a lot of issues while filming Roger Rabbit. Before the animation and visuals were done, the movie didn't look good at all, and people didn't know what the hell they were watching. Zemeckis stood his ground and they finished it and they made something classic, iconic and different.

I'm not saying this is the same thing, but I'm also saying what's going on here? Are they going to let these filmmakers, these artists, do the job you hired them to do or not?

Now yeah there are those stories about the production issues, setting up late, and not doing the extra camera setups and all that. But who even knows if that's true or accurate?

Why do we assume they didn't? We don't know the conversations, but I seriously doubt they said they were going to make 21 Jump Street in space, and everyone was like cool, and then were shocked and appalled to see the results.

We don't know if anything here is true or accurate, but considering Lord and Miller don't seem to like to compromise at all, if they weren't doing well on set, that was on them.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's just it.

If they're utilizing any kind of reasonable oversight, there's no reason for said problems to have just become apparent.

These do not sound like subtle differences in approach to filmmaking. These sound like major elements of the way Lord and Miller direct that you'd pretty much have to be blind not to see, and that producers/writers, etc should know would clash with their process long before this point.

I suppose there's always the chance that no one said anything and they decided they had carte blanche and went off the rails toward the end of filming.

But then much of the problem then becomes that no one said anything. If you don't communicate and set clear expectations as a production team, you can hardly be surprised when creators fail to deliver a product that meets your expectations.

More and more, it seems like someone was asleep at the wheel.

They did. That is why they have been planning the reshoots since the start of May. I would also assume the left over regular shooting schedule would be handled the same way. People are acting like this happened last week. It didn't. There was a clear breaking point.

This isn't, "the entire movie they shot is hot garbage". Never has that been stated. Its when they started putting the movie together they realized things were missing, the plot and dialogue were changing a lot, the tone was weird and Han Solo wasn't Han Solo enough.

It has also been stated there has been talk the entire time. I doubt Lord and Miller kept on saying no to all request, and then just kept filming. It makes no sense.

But some of you act like Lord and Miller were blissfully niave and never were called into the principle's office. That is clearly not true.

 

[Marvolo]

I agree 100% with everything you said...

... and I still would've been okay with Lucasfilm pulling the plug 3 months ago. To do it with 3 weeks left is problematic.

But, yeah, why hire an artist and not let him finish the painting when he's almost done. Just don't hire him in the first place. This stuff is making me wish our brother George was here.

Someone at Disney liked their previous work and saw their potential. But that doesnt mean the employer is guaranteed to like the product as it begins to come together. Nor does that require the employer to just accept what the artist is making. Clearly Disney started seeing the whole picture and didnt like it. They wanted some changes made and Lord and Miller refused to play ball with the employer that gave them over $150 million. Not to mention, it sounds like they were managing the principle photography terribly.

Honestly, Disney and Kathy need to just hire proven established directors for the next few stand alone films. Directors that have a history of producing good work and a history of managing productions well. Directors that will work with a studio rather than flat out refusing to cooperate with their employer. Basically, Disney needs to hire safe directors for a while. They cant afford more director problems. It wouldnt kill the franchise but it would be a black cloud over the films and would create all sorts of bad press online. Plus, Kathy may find herself out of a job if directors keep causing problems. The execs will start to question her ability to choose directors and her ability to manage those directors and their productions.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Someone at Disney liked their previous work and saw their potential. But that doesnt mean the employer is guaranteed to like the product as it begins to come together. Nor does that require the employer to just accept what the artist is making. Clearly Disney started seeing the whole picture and didnt like it. They wanted some changes made and Lord and Miller refused to play ball with the employer that gave them over $150 million. Not to mention, it sounds like they were managing the principle photography terribly.

Honestly, Disney and Kathy need to just hire proven established directors for the next few stand alone films. Directors that have a history of producing good work and a history of managing productions well. Directors that will work with a studio rather than flat out refusing to cooperate with their employer. Basically, Disney needs to hire safe directors for a while. They cant afford more director problems. It wouldnt kill the franchise but it would be a black cloud over the films and would create all sorts of bad press online. Plus, Kathy may find herself out of a job if directors keep causing problems. The execs will start to question her ability to choose directors and her ability to manage those directors and their productions.

Yep. The kid experiment has clearly not worked. No problem for JJ and Rian.

 

[TheVileOne]

Just so you guys know, Phil Lord and Chris Miller are 41 years old and only two years younger than Rian Johnson.

They've also directed four movies total. Johnson has only done three, with Last Jedi being his fourth.

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[TheVileOne]

Why do we assume they didn't? We don't know the conversations, but I seriously doubt they said they were going to make 21 Jump Street in space, and everyone was like cool, and then were shocked and appalled to see the results.

We don't know if anything here is true or accurate, but considering Lord and Miller don't seem to like to compromise at all, if they weren't doing well on set, that was on them.

Because they basically said they didn't like it and said we need you to commit to reshoots overseen by another director and they refused.

 

[Roose Bolton]

There's something wrong with her medulla oblongata!