Ghost Rider SOV - What Went Wrong?

[Midnyte_Sun]

So how did you all think Sony screwed this one up again?

In my opinion, the script was the nail in the coffin of this franchise for Sony. In essence, it seemed rushed, and even though fans asked for compelling characters, lots of epic action, a good challenge from the adversary, some true suspense, they gave us Nicolas Cage being Nicolas Cage, with a little amped up action...still not enough GR screen time.

What are your thoughts on how Sony screwed this up again?

 

[Microchip]

They decided to go for a B-movie feel but couldn't even get that done. It should have been even shorter (by about 10 minutes) and had more action. A lot more. Way too much story there without the actors or script to make it work.

 

[MOVIELORD101]

Guys, don't blame Nevildine/Taylor for this. BLAME DAVID GOYER. Sure, I enjoyed it but it had it's minor flaws. And Goyer's the ONLY one who wrote the script. Those two guys did their best to make the most out of this. Next time, I say let THEM write it, too, not JUST direct it.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Nobody is blaming Neveldine or Taylor, I think the movie was really flawed when the script was weak...this allowed Cage to add more input and we all know how that panned out in the first and now the 2nd movie.

1st Movie we got jelly beans eating, karate monkey watching Johnny blaze. In the 2nd one we got Ghost Rider dancing and en-vogue'ing.

 

[MOVIELORD101]

Just be glad neither Roxane nor Blackheart were even in this. Blackheart was such a whiny ***** in the last movie that it was pathetic, and the less said about how ****** of an actress Eva Mendes is, the BETTER.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

What did they do to Danny in the 2nd? He was just a vessel for Rourke..that was it. What about Nadia? What kind of challenge was Blackout for Ghost Rider? What about Christopher Lambert's role? There were lots of missed opportunities in this one. The only redeeming quality it has , is that it had great outdoor locales, and decent action when GR came on the scene.

This movie needed a lot more Ghost Rider, a better story, compelling characters, some real suspense, and a stronger adversary that would impose some challenge for him.

 

[MOVIELORD101]

Btw, you notice neither Danny nor his mom were mentioned by last name, right? I was suspecting he's really Danny Ketch from the comics....

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

That's what everyone was hinting. But Dan's real mom was Naomi, and then his adopted mom was Frances.. I figure they took some liberties with this character, but there was no hint that he could be a vessel for Ghost Rider.

 

[MOVIELORD101]

I know. A bit of a missed opportunity. That's my only complaint with the film.

 

[Slushy]

Lots of things:

No Eva Mendes

No Peter Fonda

No Sam Elliot

a lower movie budget = less special effects

Crappier story especially with the changed origin. Even if the previous film was not good, its beyond stupid to act like it didn't happen when you're reusing the SAME lead actor!

Nicolas Cage still being hammy

Blackout sucked

anti-climatic final fight

 

[spider-neil]

it comes down to this; figure out where your character's strength lies and go after it. don't try and be something you are not.
imho ghost rider's strength lies in taking down characters, when that happens the movie shines so don't try and shoehorn that into a convoluted plot make a story that services those character strengths.

the story of the son of satan is so played out most notably with the omen there is no time to do that type of story justice so why bother.
have an object that requires that ghost rider takes down as many bad guys as humanly possible. look at the plot structure for the first blade movie (a far superior movie) a anti hero with no emotion that is relentless in taking down bad guys. the end.

that tried to force uninteresting characters that makes this movie grind to a halt. is movie is like thor in that the second act badly suffers with a frankly boring supporting cast, everything slows down and you are counting the minutes until the hero is on screen again. compare this with the second act of SM2 or TDK where the hero (bats and spidey) are pretty much non existent but the movie doesn't suffer because the supporting characters and the hero's alter ego are more interesting.

ghost rider's alter ego and supporting cast are dull as dish water so put the focus on ghost rider. I don't think sony will learn the lesson as I think this movie will make so little money I can see the rights reverting to back marvel.
maybe the next time we see ghost rider he will be teaming up with moon night.

 

[Spade]

And Goyer's the ONLY one who wrote the script.

Scott Gimple and Seth Hoffman rewrote Goyer's screenplay.

Next time

There probably won't be one.

 

[OddBob]

Neveldine/Taylor did a pass on the Gimple/Hoffman draft after they came aboard, too.

The script is the main problem, no matter who tinkered with it. The script wasn't good when Goyer first wrote it in 2001, and the movie turned out worse than that.

 

[BigThor]

Nobody is blaming Neveldine or Taylor, I think the movie was really flawed when the script was weak...this allowed Cage to add more input and we all know how that panned out in the first and now the 2nd movie.

1st Movie we got jelly beans eating, karate monkey watching Johnny blaze. In the 2nd one we got Ghost Rider dancing and en-vogue'ing.

I hardly call "swaying" dancing and that was only in the first GR fight scene of the movie.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Why was he floating in mid air spinning around on his back? Putting his hands on his chest and doing a victory pose after taking out Rourke? None of that is Ghost Rider..it's just Nicolas Cage being Nicolas Cage.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Neveldine/Taylor did a pass on the Gimple/Hoffman draft after they came aboard, too.

The script is the main problem, no matter who tinkered with it. The script wasn't good when Goyer first wrote it in 2001, and the movie turned out worse than that.

Goyer's script was a hard R-rated horror movie with a really tortured spirit as the protoganist. It took lots of liberty with the spirit, added Native American folklore, and made Blaze feel the pain of every wound inflicted on the SOV. It was a different movie, made for the 90's, and in essence, hard to judge whether that would have been worse than part 1 or part 2. If Norrington directed it, I believe it would have been pretty bad ass.

 

[BigThor]

Why was he floating in mid air spinning around on his back? Putting his hands on his chest and doing a victory pose after taking out Rourke? None of that is Ghost Rider..it's just Nicolas Cage being Nicolas Cage.

Yeah it's not very Rider-like but I wouldn't call it "dancing" or "en-vogueing", those instances were few and far between though so I could look over them.

I love the roaring GR did with his arms out stretched after sending Rourke to hell, it was very "Zarathos-like" in my opinion.

 

[rayc1971]

Goyer's script was a hard R-rated horror movie with a really tortured spirit as the protoganist. It took lots of liberty with the spirit, added Native American folklore, and made Blaze feel the pain of every wound inflicted on the SOV. It was a different movie, made for the 90's, and in essence, hard to judge whether that would have been worse than part 1 or part 2. If Norrington directed it, I believe it would have been pretty bad ass.

steven norrington for director and ryan goslying as ghost ryder! nuff said!

 

[cryptic name]

Guys, don't blame Nevildine/Taylor for this. BLAME DAVID GOYER. Sure, I enjoyed it but it had it's minor flaws. And Goyer's the ONLY one who wrote the script. Those two guys did their best to make the most out of this. Next time, I say let THEM write it, too, not JUST direct it.

I've read Goyer's original draft that was rewritten into this film, he doesn't deserve to be bashed for this.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well using Nicolas Cage again... it pretty much all went downhill from there.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I've read Goyer's original draft that was rewritten into this film, he doesn't deserve to be bashed for this.

Agreed. Goyer's script was also hard R and Sony wanted to make it PG 13 which is one of the reasons Norrington left the project.

The fact was, Sony was going to lose the rights to make another movie...they rushed a weak ass story...and there you have it.

 

[Steampunk Ghost]

a LOT went wrong with this film, i think, as far as accuracy to the character of Ghost Rider, and others. did i miss a penance stare scene, because i didnt see one!! when they were talking about Zarathos being an angel, that is not true because Zarathos was a demon. and what REALLY disappointed me the most was the so-called character of Blackout. he was always a vampire who could turn out the lights. they got the 'turn out the lights' thing right, but they never mentioned the name Blackout and he was human before he became Blackout, which was wrong. as i said before, he was ALWAYS a VAMPIRE!!!! there was so much that disappointed me about this film....i could go on and on....

 

[piccolo]

1. Horrible directing. I made a point of noting who the director was in the credits so I could make sure to never see one of his movies again. Bad perspective in the shots, way too close to the characters so you couldn't see much, etc. Felt so amateurish.

2. Too tongue-in-cheek. Its a Nic Cage movie so you have to go in knowing it won't be serious, but they took it too far. This is supposed to be Ghost Rider, one of the darkest books Marvel has ever put out. The Rider himself was a clown and Cage hammed it up as Blaze. This felt way more like a Sam Raimi Evil Dead movie than a Ghost Rider movie.

3. Cringeworthy and unnecessary "acting" scenes, where the movie basically tried to make the actors earn their paychecks with cliche moments and scenes that were just painful.

4. Inconsistency. Rider gets put in the hospital by a large shell but later takes multiple super-weapon shells easy.

5. Blackout too cheesy and Sam Raimi-ey. Totally f'ed him up.

6. Totally whiffed the penance stare. Kept waiting for some light to shoot out of his eyes or something but they thought it'd be a better idea for GR to just...look at them. And scream, for no reason. While nothing happened. How could they mess THAT up?

This movie would have much much better if it took itself more seriously instead of embracing the character than Nic Cage has become. And with another director.

Actually, that would have changed the movie entirely. A different lead actor and director was the difference between this movie being a piece of crap and decent.

The only reason it wasn't a total waste of time was because Nadia was amazing looking.

 

[CaptainCraig]

As noted the script is the issue.

I think we needed more backstory on Moreaux.
Keeping Anthony Stewart Head character alive to mabye be used again in a scene with Lamberts cult leader. Since Moreaux knew both there was an opportunity to explore how they all co-existed. One group was content to keep Danny alive and once the Solstice over he's a non issue. The other would kill him out of duplicity. There was just a chance there for some layering missed and performed by engaging actors that didn't happen.

I'm actually fine with the amout of "Rider" time in the film. If he's showing up every 10 minutes that takes something out of the moment imo. The last action sequence at dawn is really good.

Re: Swaying motion, in an interview I'm too lazy to track down Cage said he wanted to give the Riders movements a sense of uncertainity so he modeled his sway on that of his pet cobra. To him the sway gave off a sense of hypnotic unease about what might happen next.

I think that should a third film happen, and it could based on the budget, that Blaze and the Rider should act more as one. It takes out some "Cage over acting" and would help Blaze appear more threatning when not being the Rider. Also, with the fear of daylight gone due to the change of how Zarathos is bonded to Cage we could have more cool daytime scenes as well.

 

[Drz]

Ghost Rider needs his villain to be another driver, it needs to be something like his Lex Luthor or Moriarty, perhaps something like Vengeance?