Ghost Rider (Vol 2) Discussion / Dan Ketch

I love the second Ghost Rider, but i couldn't stop me to appreciate the first after seeing the purple enormous windsheld his bike had sometimes, and especially after reading the What if about Ghost Rider kidnapping the Pope. That was really great, in a b-movie/'60/absurd way. :)
The (lack of) fire on the skull was also very...hairy. :)
 
FlameHead said:
In the history that was developed in developing the 2nd Ghost Rider we learnt that Zarathos was just a demon (which I understand is what YOU love about the character) who was bonded to Blaze. We also found out that the form that Zarthos was in during those days was not his true form. It was that of a Ghost Rider. A Ghost Rider being a demonic bounty hunter who lives for one thing; to give pain to those who cause it.

Zarathos is not a Ghost Rider, as defined in the later series. That's what I mean by he's not a real Ghost Rider.



The look exactly alike because Zarathos was created to look exactly like a Ghost Rider, as I just mentioned..

ahh yes, you are right, I remember that now. See I've read and re-read each issue of Vol1 many many times, however Vol.2 I only read once,except for a few select issues. I guess when I accused you of being in "unfamiliar territory" with GRB, the same could be said of me with GRK. I guess I didn't like what they came up with so I kinda forgot about it, but your right that is what they established as the deal.



FlameHead said:
I'm all for catch and release... to the proper authorities. I don't think anyone deserves to unwillingly die by any other persons hands. That goes for real life and the comic world. The fact that Ghost Rider II would rather his victims live in eternal pain than die is pretty freakin cool... IMO, of course..

yes, to the proper authorities, but a lot of times(talking about spiderman) he'll release them even though there are no authorities around just because he doesn't want to kill them. I think that is wrong because it endangers other innocence. I didn't like the big deal made about GRK not killing because, as in real life, sometimes, as unfortunate as it is, there is a time killing is the right choice. I agree making victims live in eternal pain is way cool, which of course, makes GRK better than SM right off the bat imo. And like I said, GRB to my memory rarely if ever actually killed anybody. His opponents ended up much like GRK's. It's just that it was open ended as to whether or not GRB would kill. I thought that more appropriate than a blanket statement of-I will never kill.period.

FlameHead said:
You're right on one thing (and on many of the things you say to some people), we are definatly going to have to learn to agree to disagree. I knew that as soon as I started replyin' to your original post. This is a fight that will likely go on for as long as the Character is loved by people like us.

I like reading your opinions and I do understand the love of Blaze and the original character. What I can't understand is how someone who loves that character so much could hate the other equally as much. I can't understand how someone could not see some good in a character that is in essance the same as the original... but, I guess that's what you hate; the fact that they created another when they could have just kept the first.

To each their own.

Yes you got me figured out pretty well. that is what I hate"the fact that they created another when they could have just kept the first." I could have dealt with that better if they didn't also do away with a lot of the things I really liked about GRB (hellfire blasts, creating bike of pure fire from his hand, maniacal laughing, and the attitude he always had-I suppose the kinda attitude you get from being a demongod at one point and being cocky about it--stuff like that) There were a lot of differences that I resented. But on the up side, I really enjoyed the art of about the first half of GRK. And GRK did have a few moments that were pretty cool. I particularly enjoyed Crossroads and the Spirit of Vengeance title.
Anyway, You seem like a pretty good guy Flamehead, either that or your just practicing a lot of restraint (probibly a little of both :) I appreciate the fact that you actually seem to pay attention to what I'm saying instead of just thinking about how you can shoot back at me, I try to do the same, you'll notice if I feel your right about something I don't have any problem saying your right. I've been through some real heated arguements,namely on the old marvel board(the one before JQ's) perhaps even with you if you posted there. I like this forum, people seem to be more respectful, which is good. I've been reading the posts on here for years,just recently started adding mine to the mix due to the movie finally happening for sure. I've enjoyed your posts as well, we agree to disagree and I hope I haven't pissed you off to much.
 
Posts on boards don't piss me off... a lot of things do, like my job, the war in Iraq, lack of jobs in Newfoundland and various other things but, not posts on boards. Besides, if you were being a real idiot and not listening to anything or arguing just for the sack of doing so... I would have just ignored

I'm not on the hype to start (or particapate in) arguments (heated or otherwise) with anyone. That's not my thing. I am here howerver, to discuss topics with people who are equally passionate about it. It may be the Libra in me but I like to keep a balance in things, especially in debates. There is no point in stressing your own points if you don't pay attention to the points that another person is making. You don't have to agree with them but, in order to have a successful conversation, you need to pay attention to them... as you've already mentioned.

Thanks for the kind words and I'd gladly talk about this character anytime with you. Be sure to come back often and keep this section alive. It's a fairly tight knit group of people, as you've observed and we all treat each other with respect. That's what makes it the best part of the hype. Welcome aboard!
 
FlameHead said:
Posts on boards don't piss me off... a lot of things do, like my job, the war in Iraq,

Wow, we are even on opposite sides of the political spectrum. If we can get along, then perhaps there is a chance for world peace :)

I appreciate everything else you said. See you on the boards.
 
World Peace if far out of anyone's grasps. We've already destroyed our world and it's only a matter of time until it destroys us. As for our political platforms... I'm Canadian. Need I say more? (not that all Canadians and Americans differ on thier political views)

I equally appreciate your comments. Hopefully you'll hang around the Ghost Rider section in the future. I (we) welcome your comments.
 
FlameHead said:
Don't expect to ever read anything about Ketch again... Especially in this book. Ennis has stated that he never heard of Ketch before and does not know the 90's series.

That's just *****ing ******ed. Why even give him the book if he doesnt know what's happened to any of the characters in the last 20 years? GR is one of my favorite characters of all time and to see his continuity just plain ignored on the verge of the characters biggest hype and popularity EVER pisses me off to no end. Anyone else share the same feelings?
 
I agree 100%. The Ketch GR is the one I grew up reading, so it sucks that people are acting like it never happened. When I heard about The Hammerlane series, I was bummed it was Blaze. The same thing happened with the movie, and now the new comic. Blaze's story wasn't half as cool as Ketch's. The connection/struggle between Ketch and GR in the early issues was so awesome. It doesn't get much better than The Spirit of Vengeance. Granted, the whole mystic motorcycle thing was a little weird, but it fit the story. I hope if they do an ongiong series, they at least make some mention of the Ketch era.
 
Uncanny Orb said:
Nope. Blaze is cool without Ghost Rider, Ketch just isn't.

This is true.. but the big problem I have with ANOTHER teenage kid, with his alter ego making his college life problematic is that he sounds to much like frickin' spider-dork. I liked the Ketch series but he really had no business being GR. I would rather him had been 13-15 year old, BMX racer that transformed to GR. At least there would be some connection to a bike. Remember Ketch only had the bike because he found it in the graveyard.

HFM :ghost:
 
Ketch got better as the series progressed. Especially after Blaze came along and showed him the ropes.

I can't remember ever seeing Ketch in college. Come to think of it, I have only the vaguest memory of Danny having some kind of job. Was he going somewhere with his life or just leeching off his mom?

Finally, isn't this just a limited series?
 
They can still bring Ketch onto the scene and it would still make sense with Blaze having to fulfill his obligation after selling his soul, the new series has alot of potential and could be great even for the Dan Ketch fans but I dont like the implications that they are completly ignoring everything that happened in the 90's. Let's hope they dont ignore it! :ghost:
 
If it became an ongoing it may happen, but with just six issues it ain't happening. The Ketch Ghost Rider was great I totally agree with that, as for Ketch himself I always hoped something would happen to him so GR would get a new host.
 
Actually, I was hoping once Ketch died in issue 25 he stayed dead and Rider would have a story written where he would no longer be a possession but a seperate character. Or at least Ketch'es death lasting long than 8 issues.

I was very disappointed in reading that Ketch's variation of the character is going completely ignored. That was 8 years of many peoples' lives, 6 of my own.

I like the idea of restarting the series, but if you were going to do that, go all the way. Start from the beginning. Recreate the character completely. Rewrite the origin. Etc. Don't just go back and completely erase the 1990's. That means every story that involved Ghost Rider never existed. No Midnight Sons, no Midnight Massacre, no Seige of Darkness (that might be a good thing), no New Fantastic Four, no... you get the idea.
 
Well the Blaze\Zarathos origin is clean as a whistle, it never changed like the Ketch\Ghost Riders did several times, besides it's Blaze in the movie and they aren't going to mess with that.
 
NDX said:
I like the idea of restarting the series, but if you were going to do that, go all the way. Start from the beginning. Recreate the character completely. Rewrite the origin. Etc. Don't just go back and completely erase the 1990's. That means every story that involved Ghost Rider never existed. No Midnight Sons, no Midnight Massacre, no Seige of Darkness (that might be a good thing), no New Fantastic Four, no... you get the idea.
That sounds like... Ultimate Ghost Rider!
 
I could live with a whole new Ghost Rider and host.
 
Dan Ketch said:
That's just *****ing ******ed.

I don't think its ******ed at all. I like to think they realized their mistake(s) and deep sixed the whole ketch era :up:
I fear they really haven't done that and the whole dreaded thing will be brought up again at some future time, but I do hope we really never will have to relive that whole....thing.
 
Uncanny Orb said:
I could live with a whole new Ghost Rider and host.

I couldn't (God, I hope they don't make me.....again)
A new host, yes I can live with that, but NOT a new GR (again :rolleyes: )
 
I hear that.

I can't believe it's taken me this long to reply to this thread as this is a issue that's close to my heart. I'm a huge fan of the Dan Ketch series, every piece of it. I don't agree with many peoples views on how the character was ruined and I even like the crossovers that came out during the final years of the series. I love it all!

No, they should never recreate the character and I'm very dissapointed with how Marvel treats the 90's version. Why do they hate it so much or better yet, why does Mackie hate it so much? I mean, he wrote like 90% of it and he's complaining that he doesn' like how 'his' character turned out? Sheesh.

To give up on Dan Ketch and the history that was developed would be a total shame and a direct insult to all of us who fell for the character for the first time during that period. It's bad enough that it's never talked about let alone forget it completly.

The only positive thing I've seen is that they did include him in the Marvel Knights 2005 encyclopedia... which pleased me to no end and did give me a little hope in Marvel
 
I'm a huge GR fan. I've got pretty much every issue of both sereis. I have to admit, I do like Johnny Blaze better, but the Dan Ketch version was great as well. Besides, John Blaze was great in the Dan Ketch sereis. So gritty and badass. I don't have a problem with him being GR again, but they need to explain it. There was so much history and a big following of the DK series, it's a big mistake on Marvels part not to aknoladge it.
 
I've recently reread the entire run of the Dan Ketch Ghost Rider and I can see why they canceled it, the series started making a slow decline after issue 50 and starting taking a nose dive when Ivan Velez took over on the book and then with Pop Mahn, the gay "updated" costume and the ridiculous and uninteresting storylines of the last 20 issues or so but they cancelled it right when it was getting good again with Javier Saltares and Mark Texiera coming back to the series and the storyline was actually pretty interesting of the last story arc but then they axed it before it had a chance to really get back on track. Too bad...I miss that series and fear we'll never see anything of those characters again...
 
I stopped reading when they messed with his costume. I just thought, "What. The. Hell?":eek:
 
Mr Nick said:
I stopped reading when they messed with his costume. I just thought, "What. The. Hell?":eek:


yeah...no kidding.
that yellow/red getup was horrible. talk about misunderstanding what the character was all about. geeze
i wouldnt have mind if they did change the outfit some...but yellow and red colors? in a speedsuit? im sure that helped killed the book even more back then...read some time ago alot of readers just dropped the book because of that move.
 
Yeah, it did get pretty stupid for awhile. I think the new one is definately in the right direction, but I still think they should aknoladge the old continuity.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"