Goyer says All DC films at Warner Bros. are on Hold

[protocida]

I'm starting to think that, maybe, it's better to keep DC/Warner's superhero franchises separeted, making each hero the only superhero of his respective universe. As much as i and other fans would like to see a Justice League movie or a World's Finest movie, maybe that'll help the franchises, because, that way, each movie can have his own vision. "Superman" can be a sci-fi romance, "Batman" can be a criminal epic, "Green Lantern" can be a space opera, "Wonder-Woman" can be a epic, "Shazam" can be a family-movie with depth and so on.

I just hope Warner makes the movies. Maybe "Watchmen" can help it.

 

[The Major]

I can almost guarantee Marvel will be dead in the water after the Avengers movie... maybe there will be some Spidey/X-Men movies (which isn't even Marvel but Marvel property so it still counts)... Spiderman sequels will probably end in another B & R considering the direction SM3 took that franchise... maybe we'll get another IM movie... maybe some Avengers sequels, maybe a couple more "A" list character movies... but after that Marvel will have nothing left to burn off and they'll have to turn to their "B/C" list characters.

You seriously under-estimate B/C list characters. Iron Man and Blade are in that group. Hell, X-men was before the movies were a hit.

Just because something is A list doesn't mean it is the only property which can be successful. All properties have to start somewhere. They don't start out as A-listers.

All they need is a good concept to be executed properly. Marvel has literally thousands of these as does DC. The difference is Marvel understands those franchises and isn't afraid to make them reach their potential, DC/WB is the opposite.

You remember Hellboy? Dr. Strange has similar potential. That's going in their next wave of films.

Once that comes then DC can really start making a name for themselves... separate studio and all.

Why wait? You do know this could take a decade before Marvel slows down, right?

DC doing nothing helps nobody.

Again... there is NO rush for DC to lauch an ambitious slate like that.

I disagree.

I don't mean DC should rush but they shouldn't do nothing. They need to plan and execute good franchises. That is not going to happen by doing nothing. It'll just give Marvel that much more experience and product to leave them in the dust when they finally do something. That's been the status quo for years already. All we got from it was a revived Batman franchise which was never in danger of being thrown in the DC graveyard and a bad movie about Catwoman which missed the point of the property.

Just because Batman is a success now does NOT mean EVERY other DC character has to be a success at this moment...

Just because Batman is a success doesn't mean very other DC lesser franchise doesn't have potential.

They have great diversification within the DCU that Batman can't reach. Staying just with Batman would be the equivelant of WB only adapting Harry Potter with novel adaptions and leaving everything else untouched.

You under-estimate exactly how much potential the DCU has to offer.

that is just not realistic. DC moving like Marvel is at this moment would only lead to oversaturation of the market. The genre ain't going away anytime soon.

True, but WB is still far behind in Marvel is with their lesser franchises.

Nor do they just have to just focus on their big budget movies to get them exposed. They can do direct to dvd live action tv movie, mini-series and tv shows which can set up future movies. This can also assist lesser franchises which WB has sitting on the shelf that have had success with get more solid foundations like WW, Teen Titans and Legion.

They don't need to over-saturate the market with super-hero movies, either. Some might even work without going into that tone like Checkmate, Adam Strange or Etrigan. Just because they exist in the DCU doesn't mean they have to act like regular super-heroes.

TDK was the second highest grossing movie of all time BY FAR...

It's also only one sucessful franchise when they could have dozens.

 

[kyuubijavi1]

I don't know why people are really *****ing honest to god WB is doing an extremely smart thing when TDK hit you know what happened...? Yeah it was one of the greatest movies ever, no other comic flick has done that or even reached high enough to sniff at what TDK did. So when they say where putting all the dc flicks on hold its a great thing cause that means there looking at the scripts and want to re-do what tdk did instead of giving us crap like Fantastic 4 they want to deliver more movies on par with BB and TDK.

Sure some characters might get more of a drama feel then they need but I fail to see how that's a bad thing, I don't want to walk into a comedy flick staring a costumed clown I want to see a smart story that respects where it comes from.

 

[Heretic]

But what if the movie is based on a comedy comic starring a costumed clown????

I think thats the worry.

 

[DarkSuperman]

I sure hope this doesn't hold up Green Lantern because I just finished reading the script literally 5 seconds ago and it is brilliant!

 

[TheVileOne]

Here's the thing.

I still don't think WB really knows what to do with these properties. I still think they are clueless.

 

[Heretic]

I would be fine with WB if they announced that they were taking time off and making sure that each movie recieved the care and attention to detail that each character deserves so that each film can stand on its own. But thats not what we keep hearing. Iits always the same "we need to make the Plastic Man script more dark and gritty like The Dark Knight, to delve into the twisted psyche and dark underbelly of the id of The Stretchable Knight".

 

[jmc]

Here's the thing.

I still don't think WB really knows what to do with these properties. I still think they are clueless.

I think that pretty much sums it up. It's not so much the films are 'on hold', more likely in limbo, as they have been years.

 

[Octoberist]

well they better decide pronto, if they want a movie out by 2010

 

[Mister J]

Here's the thing.

I still don't think WB really knows what to do with these properties. I still think they are clueless.

Unfortunately, and (from WB's perspective) rather incredulously, I believe that to be the case as well.

 

[Steelsheen]

Here's the thing.

I still don't think WB really knows what to do with these properties. I still think they are clueless.

which brings us back around to the debate of having a WB department primarily responsible for DC franchises.

 

[mclay18]

Here's the thing.

I still don't think WB really knows what to do with these properties. I still think they are clueless.

They're not clueless; right now they have cold feet. Warners isn't afraid of splurging on a third Batfilm or the last two HP films because they're guaranteed to bring in dough, but those are established franchises.

Warners need to take more risks. They're not losing any money by halting process on DC films, but they're not gaining any potential money from it either.

 

[jmc]

I'm starting to think that, maybe, it's better to keep DC/Warner's superhero franchises separeted, making each hero the only superhero of his respective universe. As much as i and other fans would like to see a Justice League movie or a World's Finest movie, maybe that'll help the franchises, because, that way, each movie can have his own vision. ''Superman'' can be a sci-fi romance, ''Batman'' can be a criminal epic, ''Green Lantern'' can be a space opera, ''Wonder-Woman'' can be a epic, ''Shazam'' can be a family-movie with depth and so on.

I just hope Warner makes the movies. Maybe ''Watchmen'' can help it.

I seriously thought I was the only one with that train of thought.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Isnt that what we are getting from marvel though. 4 solo movies covering many different themes and elements and then placing them in the same movie. I really dont see Worlds Finest or Justice League ruining the integrity of the other movies, isnt that the appeal of JLA in the first place. Many different heroes with different means, personalities, and backgrounds coming together on one team.

 

[TheVileOne]

Hollywood's not in a period right now where they want to take risks.

 

[FaT_tONle]

You seriously under-estimate B/C list characters. Iron Man and Blade are in that group. Hell, X-men was before the movies were a hit.

Just because something is A list doesn't mean it is the only property which can be successful. All properties have to start somewhere. They don't start out as A-listers.

X-Men and IM are "A" list... IM was always a top five Marvel character... it's not even close. And X-Men??? Please.... I mean you make a good point... but you are off with those facts IMO.

All they need is a good concept to be executed properly. Marvel has literally thousands of these as does DC. The difference is Marvel understands those franchises and isn't afraid to make them reach their potential, DC/WB is the opposite.

Marvel needs the next wave of franchises to survive because they have their own studio now. I don't think DC can support their own studio right now. Your point will be well taken once DC develops a separate studio.

You remember Hellboy? Dr. Strange has similar potential. That's going in their next wave of films.

Dr. Strange/Black Panther/Luke Cage aren't tentpoles. They don't even need to be summer releases. Not to say they can't be succesful... but DC can compete against projects like that.

Why wait? You do know this could take a decade before Marvel slows down, right?

DC doing nothing helps nobody.

Besides Avengers... I don't see what other franchise Marvel will have down the road. Spidey will fizzle sooner than later so I really don't see the long term potential there. X4-6 is probably years away. Even so... lets say the make an Avengers movie every three years... 2011/2014/2017. That's only one BIG movie every three years. Let's even say that Marvel develops another big franchise... like the aforementioned X4-6. And they position those films three years apart from each other for a different set of years. DC would still have an opportunity to position a Justice League franchise every three years... avoiding the same years as those other Marvel tentpoles. My point is... there isn't an opportunity to do that right now... because you have too many active franchises right now. Eventually, people will be burned out of IM/Spidey/Hulk/Wolverine solo films. Then would be a good time to go through with GL, Flash, WW.

I disagree.

I don't mean DC should rush but they shouldn't do nothing. They need to plan and execute good franchises. That is not going to happen by doing nothing. It'll just give Marvel that much more experience and product to leave them in the dust when they finally do something. That's been the status quo for years already. All we got from it was a revived Batman franchise which was never in danger of being thrown in the DC graveyard and a bad movie about Catwoman which missed the point of the property.

I don't get why DC HAS to be like Marvel though... unless they feel that the solo franchises can be profitable by themselves alone... I'd be in NO rush to do anything until I feel I have franchise material with one of these other "B" list characters... I think SR should have taught them that.

Just because Batman is a success doesn't mean very other DC lesser franchise doesn't have potential.

Yeah but they will still go ahead with the smaller scale stuff like Watchmen and Jonah Hex. That should by them time.

They have great diversification within the DCU that Batman can't reach. Staying just with Batman would be the equivelant of WB only adapting Harry Potter with novel adaptions and leaving everything else untouched.

You under-estimate exactly how much potential the DCU has to offer.

We disagree... I don't think WW, GL, Flash can compete with Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk... so I wouldn't position those DC superheroes in the same years as those Marvel counterparts... and I don't think a Superman reboot will outdo additional Spidey sequels despite the atrocity that was SM3... barring additional outright suckfests of future Spiderman endeavours. I just say let these movies pass... and they will in another five years. I think that is a safe bet.

True, but WB is still far behind in Marvel is with their lesser franchises.

Nor do they just have to just focus on their big budget movies to get them exposed. They can do direct to dvd live action tv movie, mini-series and tv shows which can set up future movies. This can also assist lesser franchises which WB has sitting on the shelf that have had success with get more solid foundations like WW, Teen Titans and Legion.

They don't need to over-saturate the market with super-hero movies, either. Some might even work without going into that tone like Checkmate, Adam Strange or Etrigan. Just because they exist in the DCU doesn't mean they have to act like regular super-heroes.

I don't disagree.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Hollywood's not in a period right now where they want to take risks.

lol no business is

 

[jmc]

Isnt that what we are getting from marvel though. 4 solo movies covering many different themes and elements and then placing them in the same movie. I really dont see Worlds Finest or Justice League ruining the integrity of the other movies, isnt that the appeal of JLA in the first place. Many different heroes with different means, personalities, and backgrounds coming together on one team.

What we're getting from Marvel are some very standard superhero movies. WB has the opportunity to make quality superhero movies that are layered but in order to do so you need give give each character their own world, you can't restrict them. 4 completely different universes each with there own characters, direction and room to expand without the need to worry about what other franchises are doing or the need to worry about continuity, free reign to develop each character individually. If you want to try and match the quality of film that TDK is you have to do allow the same freedoms that were given to TDK.

 

[Heretic]

Warner is at an advantage...they have an extra supply of comics that would not cause any burnout whatsoever to the public.

They could release Flash, 100 Bullets, Sandman, Transmetropolitan and a dozen more titles in the same year and suffer no backlash. Lets see Marvel try that!

Unfortunately WB seems confused by these projects, and that confusion is probably slightly tied to Watchmen...kind of a wait and see attitude. If Watchmen fails then why try Sandman??? But also, I think that they're confused by exactly what made The Dark Knight so good. The executives think that comic books are stupid...something only kids should read...so to have a franchise like batman be spoken of as potentially the best movie of the year...to have Heath Ledger probably getting a posthumous Oscar, AND having the movie make so much bank...its got to be confusing them.

These guys wont figure it out...they never do. They need to bring a crew of people in who DO "get" comics. If that happens, then I think we can expect a barrage of quality films. If it doesnt happen, then we can expect the same formula we've been used to.

 

[The Senator]

Oh, this is sweet irony. Fifteen years ago, all Warner Bros. wanted to do was make campy, colorful superhero movies, so much so that they completely bastardized the Batman film franchise and dug their own grave when it came to comic book adaptations. Now that Nolan's dark Batman franchise has become successful, they want to apply that formula to all of their other comic book adaptations-- including the properties which are supposed to be lighthearted and colorful.

Why can't this studio learn that not every comic book franchise has the same tone, or that filming techniques applied to some comic book adaptations might not translate well to others?

 

[cerealkiller182]

What we're getting from Marvel are some very standard superhero movies. WB has the opportunity to make quality superhero movies that are layered but in order to do so you need give give each character their own world, you can't restrict them. 4 completely different universes each with there own characters, direction and room to expand without the need to worry about what other franchises are doing or the need to worry about continuity, free reign to develop each character individually. If you want to try and match the quality of film that TDK is you have to do allow the same freedoms that were given to TDK.

Are you telling me that you can't match the quality of TDK and produce solo movies with as much freedom as you want and still make a crossover? I dont believe that for a second. Marvel is being very anal about it sticking the seeds of the Avengers into each movie that much is true, but if those seeds were ignored I think Avengers could continue swimmingly. Why would whats happening in Flash have any bearing on Green Lantern just because of a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen-esque team up in the future? Marvel is making solos in terms of Avengers when you could very well make a JLA in terms of the solos. Cause like I already said the initial draw of JLA is to see characters work together who wouldnt bump into each other under any other terms.

 

[Heretic]

I can see how a guy whos life just got turned upside down by a magical green ring would never have heard of some lone nut vigilante on the other side of the country.

You create a big enough threat though...and they may both end up where needed.

 

[jmc]

Are you telling me that you can't match the quality of TDK and produce solo movies with as much freedom as you want and still make a crossover? I dont believe that for a second. Marvel is being very anal about it sticking the seeds of the Avengers into each movie that much is true, but if those seeds were ignored I think Avengers could continue swimmingly. Why would whats happening in Flash have any bearing on Green Lantern just because of a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen-esque team up in the future? Marvel is making solos in terms of Avengers when you could very well make a JLA in terms of the solos. Cause like I already said the initial draw of JLA is to see characters work together who wouldnt bump into each other under any other terms.

Giving each film maker total freedom mean the movies are all more than likely going to be completely different. How do you then make characters with completely different directions and styles work together? The excuse 'because it's like that in the comics' is not valid. You can do one of three things, do what Marvel are doing, make fairly standard flicks with the same tone and style culminating in a grand old team up film, you can create individual universes and focus on giving each one their own unique film series, or probably the easiest, simply make a JL film out of continuity. And really if as you say the draw is there to see a JL film, then you don't need the same characters from solo flicks.

 

[Heretic]

So let me get this straight jml...in your life...in real life...you have NEVER crossed paths with a stranger...NEVER met face to face with someone who lived a different lifestyle than you or had a different world view or experience???

thats really all we're talking about here you know...

 

[biolumen]

The solo movies can more easily acheive their greatest potential when unencumbered by studio directives to maintain some ambiguous continuity with the other solo movies. That's not to say they won't work if they are required to do so. It's just that the chances for success are improved if the filmakers are allowed to make creative decisions that are in the best interests of that movie, and that movie alone. Would BB and TDK be any better if WB had required Nolan to instead create a universe for those movies that would be more accomidating to alien superheroes?