Grant Morrison....W. T. F?

He didn't fix something Bruce couldn't. He followed his father's instruction manuals to complete the Batmobile. Yes it's quite far fetched that a child who lived in a test tube has been trained to be the perfect assassin, has his own island(s) can also have a quite bright brain too, but yeah i agree on your points. I myself find them pure comedy, but thats just me i guess. :p
 
The abilities of Damian are insanity and they do bother me every once in a while but I don't think they ruin the books for me (I mean his is the son of the Goddamn Batman and Morrison did make Bruce's abilities pretty much endless, so it isn't a complete surprise). We shall see. If Damian is truly running Wayne Corps, well, I dunno how I feel about that...
 
Batman and Son
Batman: Black Glove
Batman R.I.P
Batman & Robin vol.1 (this april)
Batman and Robin vol.2 (this fall)
 
He didn't fix something Bruce couldn't. He followed his father's instruction manuals to complete the Batmobile. Yes it's quite far fetched that a child who lived in a test tube has been trained to be the perfect assassin, has his own island(s) can also have a quite bright brain too, but yeah i agree on your points. I myself find them pure comedy, but thats just me i guess. :p
That's because Grant Morrison writes a very silver age, semi-satirical Batman.
 
That's because Grant Morrison writes a very silver age, semi-satirical Batman.

It's like an R-rated version of the Brave & The Bold cartoon show.
 
One day Brave and Bold show really needs to get Morrison to write an episode. I'd bet he'd love that! Maybe even free of charge? :p
 
How does it defy logic? I think the elitist dorks that are trying to make it more than what it is are confusing others by trying to read too much into it. Like Morisson wrote "you think it all breaks down into structures, symbolisms and clues". As the Joker said "that's just wikipedia".

Batman finds out he had a son with Talia
Joker gets shot and reinvents himself
We're introduced to Hurt's Batmen
We find out in a possible future Batman's son takes on the mantle and Oracle replaces her father
We're told the Batman of all Nations did in fact exist and are reintroduced to them
We also find out about The Black Glove
The Black Glove tries to psychologically sabotage Batman and they fail
We find out the Black Glove is Batman's "father" in the sense that they are responsible for the death of the Wayne's

And that's were we last leave it and it picks back up with Batman being kidnapped by Darkseid's forces.

How does any of that defy logic? it's all straightforward and thankfully all superheroish. Morisson is writing comics books as comic books and not trying to write them like they were movies and error a lot of Batman writers have made in the 00's.

Wanna know why I like Morisson's run because what he and Dini are both doing on the main books is refreshing for a Batfan such as myself who has been reading since the late 80's and was frustrated with what the bat books became after the awesome Bruce Wayne: Murderer event. Before Infinite Crisis was done the books began to take themselves too seriously under the direction of people like Azzarello and Winnick and tried to go too "dark" to the point that they forgot that Batman is wish fulfilment and they just weren't fun to read anymore. Even Rucka who is usually awesome with Batman lost his way around this time.

Hush
Death and the Maidens
Broken City
As The Crow Flies
Hush Returns
War Drums
War Games
Under the Hood

All of these stories sucked & all of them I bought only through the halfway mark except for Hush which I did complete for some reason but the rest I dropped half way through cause they were poorly written and weren't going anywhere. I felt duped each and every time cause I was promised by editors that things would get better and they just got worse this is why I kept giving the arcs chances.

A big waste of my money and time as a Bat fan that period was. So I gave up on buying the books something I only did once back in the mid 90's with Batman. Until Face the Face and then when Morisson and Dini got on board I gave their runs a shot and liked what I read and so far haven't dropped the books again.

Sorry for this tangent but you left the bait and I took it. In a nutshell Morisson focuses on the superheroic aspects of Batman something that was neglected for a while and that appeals to me. He still goes for the psychological as well but doesn't forget that these are still comic books. He makes them engaging and fun to read again not a chore like what Winnick did.

He made sense of nonsensical stuff like the Batman of Zur En Arhh while complementing the competence of Batman. Basically he has honored the fact that Batman is the best of what we humans could do with his run and I dig that. You could say you don't enjoy his writing but to say it defies logic is insulting to those of us who like this direction. As a Batman fan for 20 years now I'm proud to have BATMAN on my pull list again after that dark period before IC finished. Morisson's stories have me enjoying the title again and this is why I like his run.
Great post!!!

Btw, i liked Death and The Maidens mostly because we saw Thomas and Martha find out what their son has become and how Bruce realizes that he is Batman whether they like it or not.


Re: Morrison's Batman run.

Personally Morrison's Batman has been a delight. I've grown sick of the same old overly grimdark stories that lead nowhere, just deeper into grimdark. Dini's detective is fabulous and it reminds me a lot of BTAS. That said, it doesnt lead anywhere and its not as exciting as Morrison's Batman. Its too... safe.

Morrison took the Batman book and set himself a long and exciting course that would end up with Batman's death and eventual rebirth physically and psychologically. He tried to deter other writers from writing grimdark batman by showing them how bad grimdark batman is in his JLA run, but its success made them follow his example (Batman taking down the JL, building OMAC, etc). You know what they say: If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. And that's what Morrison is doing.

It was frustrating at first, since he threw us into the deep with no life raft, but slowly he began explaining things and setting up the bigger overarching story. [BLACKOUT]You guys know that Darkseid is behind the Black Glove and possibly the Black Lanterns too, right? [/BLACKOUT] Not to mention the rest of the metatext, about how the Club of Heroes represent aspects of Batman's personality, how his Batman run and RoBW are based on the Buddhist circle of life, etc.

My only disappointments were that Joker/Harley story with the carving smiles and all that, and RIP which ended in an anticlimactic way (DC editorial was to blame though). On the other hand, that made Morrison kill Batman in FC, facing the ultimate evil and gave him the chance to do Return of Bruce Wayne which i dont know if it would have been possible otherwise.

tl;dr Morrison's Batman run is the most exciting, colourful, thrilling, dark and yet lighthearted, campy and yet grimdark, Batman run i've ever read. His B&R is just as good, if not even better.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I just re read almost all of Morrison's run and it wasn't too confusing, for me at least and I think the things that are confusing will be answered at some point. I mean, there is still much left in the story as a whole.
 
The biggest problem with Morrison's run was the way it was released. You had Batman & Son. Then for some reason, we got a 4-issue, unrelated story arc by John Ostrander and Tom Mandrake called "Grotesk". Then we finally got the Joker prose story. Then we're introduced to the Three Ghosts of Batman story, which 2 issues into it goes into the 666 issue. Then we're tossed into the International League of Batmen arc, straight into the Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul(which, aside from Paul Dini's extremely badass epilogue, was a waste of time), and then we're thrown BACK into the 3 Ghosts of Batman storyline. We finish that and then go into RIP.

And in all of that, having recently re-read all those issues, I always felt a little confused, based on the fact that it felt like i was missing something. I understand Morrison is going for a huge mystery, and there are lots of clues and hints throughout all he's done, but even so, there seems to me that something is missing regardless; something that just doesn't make the story seem cohesive enough.

Now I understand that Morrison is finally explaining the after-effects and events that came in-between RIP and the Final Crisis tie-ins in the new Batman & Robin arc. Not sure whose to blame for that. The biggest problem with RIP was that it ended anti-climatically, and before anything could be done about it, Bruce Wayne was sent back in time and Dick became Batman.

It's colorful and interesting, and i took some enjoyment out of it, but I don't know. It was handled really poorly, probably by editorial. That, and while I like the idea of Dick being Batman, i dread, just a little bit, when Bruce comes back under Morrison's pen. I was never really keen on his Batgod characterization. That's another problem I had with RIP. But here's hoping that Bruce is completely changed and Morrison writes him differently. So i'll get around to reading more Morrison eventually, just not as soon as I thought I would.

on another note, CAIN said he didn't like Broken City. It could have been it's own individual mini-series. I love the HELL out of Broken City. I think it's great. I also think that it's insanely superior to HUSH. Unfortunately, many people are too busy jerking off to Hush that Broken City just gets overlooked. It's just a random story to tell that doesn't have ties to what came before or after it. It was just a story put forth with the idea "Wouldn't it be cool if Azzarello and Risso did Batman!?". I think it's a great story. I really love those rare, down out & out gritty crime stories. I say rare because those types of stories aren't very commonplace. Broken City was very real, not a superhero comic. Nothing of the fantastic is really in it, or at least nothing of the fantastic is prominent in the presentation of the story. I would LOVE to see more of those kind of Batman stories: the kind that make me think "Crime Comic" and not "Superhero Crime Comic". But i wouldn't want to see them all the time. Azzarello's "Joker" was a nice treat, but to see stuff like that for 5 years? No thanks. I also wouldn't say that Batman took a turn for the worst under Azzarello's pen. Because, as I said, his story felt like a self-contained arc. It never felt like he intended to go any further than those 6 issues. It is possibly Winnick's run? Most likely. And more so than Azzarello.


"City of Crime" was great too, also should have perhaps been a series of it's own though. No one has referenced it since, I don't think. However, I don't think every story like that needs to have it's own series. In a sense, they're kind of like Dini's pre-RIP issues: self - contained stories with no real continuity to each issue and the other Bat-titles. I see Broken City and City of Crime as self-contained story arcs with no continuity between the rest of the Bat-canon. I have no problem with them doing that once in a while.
 
Fantastic post crimson mist. broken city to me is what batman should be (minus the miller-esque inner monologue)

personally i haven't cared for morrison's run with the exception of the club of heroes. i just couldn't get into it. jezabelle jet and damian felt shoehorned into prominent roles (though with the former i believe that was the point) and i HATE prep-time batman (...a back up personality!?!) R.I.P was the first time in 15 years that i contemplated dropping batman. personally i'm counting the days until he leaves the franchise, but as much as i haven't enjoyed his run it is good to change up the guard every now and then and he 's contributed a hand full of ideas that may lead to good stories down the line (be they parody or otherwise :P ) so that's good.
 
Fantastic post crimson mist. broken city to me is what batman should be (minus the miller-esque inner monologue)

I loved those inner-monologues. In fact, i wouldn't even call them Miller-esque. To say that, i think, undermines Azzarello's writing ability. Both have the same interests: noir, crime, etc.. But Azzarello's writing, the voice he gives Batman is purely Azzarello's. The only similarity is that both are gritty and mean. There's a noticeable enough difference, in my opinion, to say that Azzarello's Batman is distinct enough to stand on it's own without looking like an interpretation of Frank Miller.

I guess you could also put it like this: Tim Burton loves German Expressionist films and often employs that style of film in his movies. Some other filmmaker, who also loves German expressionist films, comes and uses that style of film in his movies. Is this second filmmaker making "Burton-esque" films? No. He's making German Expression-esque films.
 
Last edited:
The biggest problem with Morrison's run was the way it was released. You had Batman & Son. Then for some reason, we got a 4-issue, unrelated story arc by John Ostrander and Tom Mandrake called "Grotesk". Then we finally got the Joker prose story. Then we're introduced to the Three Ghosts of Batman story, which 2 issues into it goes into the 666 issue. Then we're tossed into the International League of Batmen arc, straight into the Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul(which, aside from Paul Dini's extremely badass epilogue, was a waste of time), and then we're thrown BACK into the 3 Ghosts of Batman storyline. We finish that and then go into RIP.
I agree with this.


Re: Morrison's batgod and superhero Batman.
The batman book is supposed to be the superhero batman comic book and aside from the backup personality i didnt see many far fetched things in it. For example the story with the club of heroes was a typical detective story but with a more silver age - superheroic flair.

You guys already have Detective for the crime drama and street level stories, why should Batman be the same? As for Jezebel, well did any other writer that shoehorn a love interest out of nowhere ask first? Jez was supposed to feel forced because she forced herself in Bruce's life.
And introducing Damian was one of the best things that Morrison ever did. Tim had run his course as Robin and it was time for a change.
 
I agree with this.


Re: Morrison's batgod and superhero Batman.
The batman book is supposed to be the superhero batman comic book and aside from the backup personality i didnt see many far fetched things in it. For example the story with the club of heroes was a typical detective story but with a more silver age - superheroic flair.

You guys already have Detective for the crime drama and street level stories, why should Batman be the same? As for Jezebel, well did any other writer that shoehorn a love interest out of nowhere ask first? Jez was supposed to feel forced because she forced herself in Bruce's life.
And introducing Damian was one of the best things that Morrison ever did. Tim had run his course as Robin and it was time for a change.

Morrison's Batgod is the least interesting characterization I've ever read. The back-up personality thing was interesting. I really enjoyed that, as it was pure Batman and no Bruce Wayne. But Bruce ALWAYS knowing that Jezebel was in on the plot to destroy him? That was just stupid.

Jezebel started off as an interesting love interest. But then Morrison's writing just made her more and more obvious as someone you shouldn't trust. Her reveal as a villain wasn't a shock because it was really obvious. What could have been compelling was just kinda laughable. That still doesn't change the fact that Bruce ALWAYS knowing about her being a villain is stupid.

True, we have Detective for crime drama. But you miss the point. There's a huge difference between the style of story that Dini and Tony Daniels writes, and a true, hardboiled crime story ala Frank Miller, Brian Azzarello or David Lapham. Dini and Daniels write the superhero crime story, which, where I greatly enjoy them, feel like the typical Batman story. But every so often, DC puts out an awesome crime story that goes deeper and darker with Batman. Stories like City of Crime and Broken City. I'd like to see those kinds of stories a tad bit more often.
 
But Bruce ALWAYS knowing that Jezebel was in on the plot to destroy him? That was just stupid.

He started suspecting her when she said "I want you to know i understand" which is a very cool scene. Bruce closes his eyes and says "i got over it" telling he got over his parents. Simple huh? But when we learn in R.I.P that was the exact moment he started suspecting her, he didn't close his eyes because he thought of his parents. No he opened his eyes and saw a suspect.

To the rest of your post i agree. It hasn't been until Batman and Robin till we've got some mystery detective stuff, wheres R.I.P was just a "red and black " color which was Morrison giving the finger to the fans thru Joker.
 
I loved those inner-monologues. In fact, i wouldn't even call them Miller-esque. To say that, i think, undermines Azzarello's writing ability. Both have the same interests: noir, crime, etc.. But Azzarello's writing, the voice he gives Batman is purely Azzarello's. The only similarity is that both are gritty and mean. There's a noticeable enough difference, in my opinion, to say that Azzarello's Batman is distinct enough to stand on it's own without looking like an interpretation of Frank Miller.

I guess you could also put it like this: Tim Burton loves German Expressionist films and often employs that style of film in his movies. Some other filmmaker, who also loves German expressionist films, comes and uses that style of film in his movies. Is this second filmmaker making "Burton-esque" films? No. He's making German Expression-esque films.
i liked them some, but they seemed a bit excessive at points (such as the fight with little boy). the bit with the penguin was golden. but the tone was very reminisant of miller's batman imo. i haven't read city of crime, who wrote it?

as to damian replacing tim, tim had run his course? right, because his character arc has gone NOWHERE in the last 5 yrs :whatever: (granted, it's nothing that still can't be explored with him as red robin, the worst name/costume in comics, but to say he had run his course implies stagnancy which is the farthest thing from the truth.) plus, damian is icky-yuck irritating and the only writer who's mannaged to write him as anything other than jason todd 2.0 to me has been dini.
 
lixdexia you should pick up Batman & Robin #10 that came out today. You'll totally sympathize with Damian and you'll see how he's come close with Dick.
 
lixdexia you should pick up Batman & Robin #10 that came out today. You'll totally sympathize with Damian and you'll see how he's come close with Dick.
eh, i might read it in the store. i gave that series 3 issues for me not to hate it but i did.
 
lol honestly threads like this should be deleted, how in God's name can some rediculous topic like this exist in light of what is actually in print???? DAREDEVIL 2003, are you actually reading "Batman & Robin" or are you just *****ing with no basis in reality? you read batman and robin #10 and go ahead and be an idiot and say Grant Morrison is just out here blowing smoke in our faces and making us read some redundant crap about the riddler. this is bigger than Batman has EVER, and I mean EVER been. The guy has ingeniously integrated all of Batman's mythology into a once in a lifetime story that will likely go down in history as the greatest ever. Morrison has done more than make a simple "Batman caper", he made the friggin Bat-Illiad. every story from here on out will be compared to this. I can only hope that in antiquity, when we look back on Batman as old, tired fools ourselves we remember Dick Grayson, the Batman and Damian, the brat wonder I wish, that for one second, i could see your viewpoint. its embarrassing that people like you cant realize the greatness infront of you.
 
Wow, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at there, your post is way too ambiguous...

No seriously I agree, how DARE he have an opinion!

But seriously, calm down, its all a matter of opinion, I've heard arguments as to why the Godfather wasn't that great of a film, and I didn't blow my top and type like I'm frothing at the mouth. Also, a lot of people won't appreciate you swinging around your intrusive opinion like its fact.

I don't think this run is the Illiad, nor the best Batman has EVER been, I don't even think you can make that statement since a) its not over yet) and b) you haven't read all Batman stories. I'm personlaly enjoying most of it though I have my nitpicks which I think are legitimately reasonable.

That's a good word actually...reasonable, you should try it :cwink:
 
Yeah I'm definitely enjoying Batman and Robin a lot, but to say it's the greatest that will even be...... that's hard to say there will be many more bat stories in our future my friend.
 
I do enjoy how Morrison's work usually always more or less ties up with his previous work. I mean the latest issue did have references with The Cult which is a very early Morrison Batman story which... Yep you guessed it, had Satan in it. :D

But the greatest that will be? Eh perhaps the longest running "epic" story that expands more than just 12 issues, thats for sure and thats actually something i really do like about Morrison/JMS/Millar/Bendis/Rucka/Dini is how long their stories can get and how consistant they are.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"