Gwen Stacy...to kill or not to kill.

[The Joker]

nygma, let it go. Your logic and comparisons make no sense. Save yourself some face and lets just agree to disagree. We're repeating ourselves. We're done here. But I'd like to leave you with one final little point from Greg Weissman himself from this interview: http://news.toonzone.net/articles/2...erview-greg-weisman-on-spectacular-spider-man

Notice where he says:

say that the thing that people remember about Gwen is her death, but for me, that's not true. I remember being shattered by her death, but I remember GWEN. I remember falling in love with Gwen reading those issues when I was a kid

He has the good taste to recognize Gwen for the great character she was in the comics. He may have geeked her character and made her way more meek, but he explains why he did that here:

we didn't want to take their college personas and slap them down into high school. We were cheating by putting them into high school at all. We didn't want to wait four years to introduce these characters who are so important, so we decided to extrapolate backwards. We know what they were like in college, so what might they have been like in high school?

So there's hope that we'll see the more confident fiesty Gwen in some future seasons. Hooray. I bet that pleases you

Oh btw, regarding the Batman info, it's all taken from the comics. All of it. The Penguin did own a casino and a lounge in the comics. He still does. If you doubt me, I can post you some scans.

 

[Mike059jig]

No, that would be a bad movie the character is too fleshed out. If something does happen to her I think it comes down to Harry.

 

[nygma619]

nygma, let it go. Your logic and comparisons make no sense. Save yourself some face and lets just agree to disagree. We're repeating ourselves.

They make sense, you just don't agree with them. There's a difference.

And I thought you said you were done?

Notice where he says:

He has the good taste to recognize Gwen for the great character she was in the comics.

I like what he's done with Gwen on this show, but I don't share the same views on Gwen today that I did when I first read about her. That's just comes down to different views.

So there's hope that we'll see the more confident fiesty Gwen in some future seasons. Hooray. I bet that pleases you

Notice where I've said this Gwen evolves in my discussions?

Oh btw, regarding the Batman info, it's all taken from the comics. All of it. The Penguin did own a casino and a lounge in the comics. He still does. If you doubt me, I can post you some scans.

He owned a lounge, not a casino in Batman TAS; those are still two different things.


I'll end this on saying that all roads with Gwen don't have to lead to death. Sometimes I wish people were a little more open minded with this.

 

[The Joker]

They make sense, you just don't agree with them.

I wish that was true. I've been here for over 5 years. Anyone who knows me here will tell you I thrive on a good debate. Your arguements just didn't provide that unfortunately.

And I thought you said you were done?

I am. Hence why I didn't address all the other stuff in your post. Like I said we're done on that.

I'll end this on saying that all roads with Gwen don't have to lead to death. Sometimes I wish people were a little more open minded with this.

People are open minded. It's just that Gwen's death in the comics is the most emotionally powerful Spidey story to most fans. You can't blame them for wanting to see it adapted for the very first time on screen. Try and keep an open mind about that!

Cheers!

 

[nygma619]

I wish that was true. I've been here for over 5 years. Anyone who knows me here will tell you I thrive on a good debate. Your arguements just didn't provide that unfortunately.

You've been here for 5 years, and you don't know what a Mary Sue is?

And tell me where flaws are/were in my arguements? The only two I'll give you credit on is The Turning Point stuff, and the Peter and MJ not getting together because of Gwen's death in the comics stuff. Otherwise I feel the reason you aren't responding is because you don't have end all answeres that I would counter your arguements with.

If you want a flawed arguement it's calling this version of Gwen meek just because she has trouble pursueing someone who's been her best friend for a long time. God forbid that she not feel awkward about it. Peter felt awkward about it too, I guess he's meek as well.

Also, if you think I'm alone in the opinion that Marvel 616 Gwen Stacy was bland, I'm not. Search elsewhere, and you'll find that many other people share that opinion.

People are open minded. It's just that Gwen's death in the comics is the most emotionally powerful Spidey story to most fans. You can't blame them for wanting to see it adapted for the very first time on screen. Try and keep an open mind about that!

Cheers!

And if it doesn't happen, what would your reaction be?

 

[Spiderine]

Edit.

 

[JayHero4eva]

So what was she like in the comics? I've never really got to read them 'cause they're before my time and all, but I was just wondering. If she was just some popular girl, then I wouldn't like her as much. I mean, that's just so typical and stuff. She'd be kind of like Liz Allan and all the rest IMO. This crush thing is cliche too, but it's still cute IMO. So yeah, what was she like again?

 

[The Joker]

You've been here for 5 years, and you don't know what a Mary Sue is?

Correct. I've never seen anyone here, besides you, use that term.

And tell me where flaws are/were in my arguements?

Oh christ, if we go into that then we'll just be reigniting the whole thing again. No thanks. I'm not into bashing my head against a brick wall.

Also, if you think I'm alone in the opinion that Marvel 616 Gwen Stacy was bland, I'm not. Search elsewhere, and you'll find that many other people share that opinion.

I'm sure there are others who think that. I never said you were alone in thinking what you do. No opinion is universally shared.

But those people, like yourself, are in a minority.

And if it doesn't happen, what would your reaction be?

Disappointed of course. What else were you expecting? It's just a cartoon.

So what was she like in the comics? I've never really got to read them 'cause they're before my time and all, but I was just wondering. If she was just some popular girl, then I wouldn't like her as much. I mean, that's just so typical and stuff. She'd be kind of like Liz Allan and all the rest IMO.

She started off a popular Liz Allan type, but mellowed from that when she got closer to Peter and got to know him better. Peter gave a bad first impression to her and Harry when they all first met in college.

She was fiesty, a science whizz like Peter, courageous, able to stand up for herself, sweet, kind, and supportive.

She was kind of the ying to MJ's yang. MJ was the extreme party girl, wild and loose, wheras Gwen was the more settled reliable girl. The kind you'd marry [which her and Peter did discuss several times]. Herself and MJ often had amusing verbal clashes when around Peter.

If you want to get a good idea of what Gwen was like without going back to read all of the Stan Lee era, then pick up the TPB called Spider-Man: Blue:

This crush thing is cliche too, but it's still cute IMO.

You mean in the cartoon? She hasn't got a crush on Peter. She told him in Final Curtain that she's been in love with him since 7th grade or something.

 

[nygma619]

Love how you keep coming back Joker, even though you said it would be the last time a few responses ago.

Correct. I've never seen anyone here, besides you, use that term.

You've never heard anyone use that term, OUTSIDE this forum?

Oh christ, if we go into that then we'll just be reigniting the whole thing again. No thanks. I'm not into bashing my head against a brick wall.

In other words, you got nothing.

I'm sure there are others who think that. I never said you were alone in thinking what you do. No opinion is universally shared.

But those people, like yourself, are in a minority.

You think I and everyone else that thinks 616 marvel gwen was bland, are people that are in the minority? Now THERE'S a flawed opinion with no actual evidence/research to back it up.

 

[The Joker]

Love how you keep coming back Joker, even though you said it would be the last time a few responses ago.

I said we were done debating the topics on the previous page because we were repeating ourselves. Hence why I snubbed your attempts to reignite it here. Pay attention!

You've never heard anyone use that term, OUTSIDE this forum?

Hooray! The lightbulb has finally appeared over your head Seriously, did it really take some 6 posts of me saying I'd never heard of the term for you to get that?

In other words, you got nothing.

Nope, I got plenty. It's just lost on you. I say black, you say white. We were going around in circles. Like I said I'm not into bashing my head against a brick wall. The debate was going nowhere. But you cannot simply agree to disagree.

You are the one you can't let it go by continually trying to reignite it. What's wrong, are you afraid of losing face or something? Your persistence is very amusing.

You think I and everyone else that thinks 616 marvel gwen was bland, are people that are in the minority? Now THERE'S a flawed opinion with no actual evidence/research to back it up.

Correct. And I have research to prove it.

When Gwen was announced as a character in Spider-Man 3, there was huge excitement about it. Not because people thought she was going to die in Spider-Man 3 [there was no chance of that based on the circumstances of the movies], but because fans were thrilled to see this great classic character being put into the movies. In fact many fans wanted her to be the original gf instead of MJ.

Second, Sins Past, one of the main reasons it's so hated is because it taints Gwen's character. Why would so many fans care if they found Gwen a dull and bland character? People were complaining in droves because it tainted a character they loved.

Characters who a majority of the fan base find bland and boring don't generate these kind of responses.

 

[nygma619]

I said we were done debating the topics on the previous page because we were repeating ourselves. Hence why I snubbed your attempts to reignite it here. Pay attention!

I'm pretty sure you said it was your last post on the subject.

Hooray! The lightbulb has finally appeared over your head Seriously, did it really take some 6 posts of me saying I'd never heard of the term for you to get that?

I said that in terms of me being surprised that someone who prides himself on comic book knowledge/superhero fiction wouldn't know what a mary sue is.

Nope, I got plenty. It's just lost on you. I say black, you say white. We were going around in circles. Like I said I'm not into bashing my head against a brick wall. The debate was going nowhere. But you cannot simply agree to disagree.

So just because you can't end a debate with someone in 2-3 posts, or because someone elses opinion is different from your own, suddenly that persons opinion that is different from your own is illogical?

Also keep in mind you're the only one calling my views illogical.

You are the one you can't let it go by continually trying to reignite it. What's wrong, are you afraid of losing face or something? Your persistence is very amusing.

I'm not the one who went back on his word when you said you were going to end it.

Correct. And I have research to prove it.

Show me where this so called "research" came from.

When Gwen was announced as a character in Spider-Man 3, there was huge excitement about it. Not because people thought she was going to die in Spider-Man 3 [there was no chance of that based on the circumstances of the movies], but because fans were thrilled to see this great classic character being put into the movies. In fact many fans wanted her to be the original gf instead of MJ.

Once again, where was this "huge" excitement stemming from?

Characters who a majority of the fan base find bland and boring don't generate these kind of responses.

I beg to differ.

Example: In TAS, when Return of Hydro-Man, Part 2 aired. And it revealed that the Mary Jane Peter married was a hydro clone, majority of the fanbase was furious. Even those who found TAS version of Mary Jane bland (like I did) were angry with the show for doing something so stupid. Because it changed the entire context of what MJ and Peter went through from TP to then.

The same way that non-Gwen fans might of been furious because it changed the way Peter might view his loss of Gwen because she wasn't so innocent after all.

Not saying thats the case with everybody, but I'm just throwing an example out there that proves bland characters can elicit a reaction.

 

[The Joker]

I'm pretty sure you said it was your last post on the subject.

And have I addressed any of the stuff you said on those topics on the previous page since I said that? Nope. Did I rebuff your attempt to reignite it on this page? Yep.

So it was my last post on it. Again you need to pay attention!

I said that in terms of me being surprised that someone who prides himself on comic book knowledge/superhero fiction wouldn't know what a mary sue is.

Well, I don't. I've never seen or heard anyone use the term. Not on-line, or otherwise.

Now are you finished making a mountain out of this molehill?

So just because you can't end a debate with someone in 2-3 posts, or because someone elses opinion is different from your own, suddenly that persons opinion that is different from your own is illogical?

Yes. Nine times out of ten when debating with someone both parties either realize the debate is going nowhere, or reach a middle ground on the subject.

You are seemingly incapable of either.

Also keep in mind you're the only one calling my views illogical.

You and I are the only ones in this discussion. Nobody has commented about anything we've said.

And honestly I can't say I blame them. It's becoming farcial now.

I'm not the one who went back on his word when you said you were going to end it.

Jesus Christ, it has ended. We are no longer discussing the topics on the previous page.

Why is that so hard for you to understand? My god, I've never seen anyone make such a big deal out of nothing. Are you that bored or just someone who likes to split hairs?

Seriously, I've never seen anyone make such a big deal out of nothing.

Show me where this so called "research" came from.

I already told you where it came from. Are you expecting me to go rooting thru the archives to find three year old threads for you?

Once again, where was this "huge" excitement stemming from?

The love for the character, of course.

I beg to differ.

Colour me shocked

Example: In TAS, when Return of Hydro-Man, Part 2 aired. And it revealed that the Mary Jane Peter married was a hydro clone, majority of the fanbase was furious. Even those who found TAS version of Mary Jane bland (like I did) were angry with the show for doing something so stupid. Because it changed the entire context of what MJ and Peter went through from TP to then.

The same way that non-Gwen fans might of been furious because it changed the way Peter might view his loss of Gwen because she wasn't so innocent after all.

First of all, this was a cartoon, not several years worth of comics. Second, the main reason Gwen's bastardization in Sins Past was so hated was because it tainted HER. It didn't change the fact that Peter loved her and lost her and still blamed himself for being unable to save her. Why do you think so many people choose to ignore the story, like myself? It's not how Gwen should be portrayed.

The cartoon wasted ONE season's worth of episodes on the MJ clone thing. And if memory serves, didn't MJ show up as a clone over half way thru season 4? Episode 50 was when she returned, and was revealed as a clone in episode 60 in season 5. A mere 10 episodes. Not even a full season's worth of episodes. Hardly a valid comparison.

 

[nygma619]

And have I addressed any of the stuff you said on those topics on the previous page since I said that? Nope. Did I rebuff your attempt to reignite it on this page? Yep.

So it was my last post on it. Again you need to pay attention!

You said a page ago "last post on this nygma". Now you can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty this=this thread.

Well, I don't. I've never seen or heard anyone use the term. Not on-line, or otherwise.

Really? Have you been to anywhere besides this forum? Because the term Mary Sue today gets thrown around alot on the internet, like it was the flu.

Now are you finished making a mountain out of this molehill?

Not yet.

Yes. Nine times out of ten when debating with someone both parties either realize the debate is going nowhere, or reach a middle ground on the subject.

Yeah because that happens all the time in the world. People always settle debating issues (big or small) like the Iraq war, abortion, capital punishment, evolution, etc. by compromising or changing their viewpoints.

You are seemingly incapable of either.

Umm unlike you I've actually admitted to flaws in my points, where you pointed out. I've actually done more to get to some middle ground then you have.

You and I are the only ones in this discussion. Nobody has commented about anything we've said.

And honestly I can't say I blame them. It's becoming farcial now.

Nobody's commented because they haven't felt the need to (like you and I do). Not because they're annoyed by the ongoing debate between you and I.

Seriously, I've never seen anyone make such a big deal out of nothing.

If I am making a big deal out of nothing, I'm not alone. You continuing to respond to my posts makes you just as guilty as I am.

I already told you where it came from. Are you expecting me to go rooting thru the archives to find three year old threads for you?

Actually you never mentioned any source, or any threads on these forums for that matter.

Also keep in mind that these forums on this site (or any site for that matter) do not equal majority of the Spider-Man fanbase.

The love for the character, of course.

Whose love for the character? Because not everyone who is a fan of Spider-Man holds the character in high regard; or consider her that important at this day and age.

The only ones who are showing that kind of response are mostly the kind of geeks (that you see on the internet) that are die hard fans, and/or the kind of people who have a knowledge of Spider-Man's history in the comics.

Colour me shocked

I can do that. Now which color best represents shocked? Yellow? (just kidding)

he cartoon wasted ONE season's worth of episodes on the MJ clone thing.

Yes but there was a hell of alot of poignant development that took place from TP to RoH-M. From Peter revealing his identity to her, to them getting married.
These are not minor developments, these are big developments that were wasted on a fake MJ. And could not have the same impact if repeated.

And if memory serves, didn't MJ show up as a clone over half way thru season 4? Episode 50 was when she returned, and was revealed as a clone in episode 60 in season 5. A mere 10 episodes. Not even a full season's worth of episodes. Hardly a valid comparison.

Actually it still is a valid enough comparison (see what I said above). Just because the amount of time between the two isn't as big doesn't mean there's no valid comparison to be found. It's not the amount of time that makes the differentce, it's what is put into that amount of time that makes the difference.

Besides my original point was that a major event happening to a bland character can still get a reaction out of a person (or a group of people), positive or negative.

 

[stillanerd]

She started off a popular Liz Allan type, but mellowed from that when she got closer to Peter and got to know him better. Peter gave a bad first impression to her and Harry when they all first met in college.

She was fiesty, a science whizz like Peter, courageous, able to stand up for herself, sweet, kind, and supportive.

She was kind of the ying to MJ's yang. MJ was the extreme party girl, wild and loose, wheras Gwen was the more settled reliable girl. The kind you'd marry [which her and Peter did discuss several times]. Herself and MJ often had amusing verbal clashes when around Peter.

Here's the thing I think some folks don't seem to understand when it comes to Gwen in this series, Joker. Weisman has said repeatedly that since characters like Gwen, Harry, and Mary Jane showed up and met Peter after he graduated high school and entered college (well, in MJ's case, we sort of saw what she was like around ASM #25 prior to her being revealed in issue #42), they tried to imagine what these characters would have been like had they gone to the same high school as Peter.

In Gwen's case, we see her as a shy, insecure, and bookish wallflower that is part of the "geek squad," and yet behind the glasses and sweats, we do see glimpses of the fiesty, courageous, and compasionate Gwen Peter and some comic book fans have grown to love about her, such as when she stood in front of Peter to protect him from Flash's water balloons, or whenever she gives Peter "the look" whenever she gets upset with him.
And gradually over time, we see Gwen starting to emerge out of her shell both in physical appearance and in attitude. First it was MJ helping her make the first move on Peter when it came to her feelings for him; then, all through this season, Gwen's appearance gradually changed to the point where she now resembles the classic look John Romita had given her; and I'm sure if Season 3 comes around, I'm sure the show will show how, due to her pity relationship with Harry, Gwen will become more outspoken about her beliefs and her opinions, just like the comic book version.

It's all character development. We see this in Harry Osborn, as he too is "cowboying up" and becoming, in lot of ways, very much like his father in that, while not evil, certainly capable of being manipulative. And all ready, we know that he's a bit of a showoff due to his desire to be accepted. Likewise, with MJ, in that her attitude when first introduced is that she just wants to date purely for fun and not be involved in serious relationships; now after Mark Allen, we see that, perhaps, she's rethought that stance, and maybe this provides the opportunity for why she eventually starts to see Peter as more than just a friend like she did in the comics. Which should add irony to the classic Peter/Gwen/MJ triangle since MJ was the one trying to pair Peter and Gwen up all this time.

So, if and when a "Night Gwen Stacy Dies" does happen, because we have seen Gwen develop over the course of the series, become invested in her, see how well her and Peter are a "perfect couple," then her death becomes that much more tragic and dramatically satisfying because the audience wouldn't have wanted her to die and would want for Peter to really, really kill the Green Goblin or at least kick is ass HARD should he be the one responsible in this series as well.

If you want to get a good idea of what Gwen was like without going back to read all of the Stan Lee era, then pick up the TPB called Spider-Man: Blue:

Agree about Spider-Man: Blue. That's series was practically the last time both Gwen and Mary Jane were actually written in character.

 

[The Joker]

nygma, I am now really going to drop all of this debate with you.

Credit where credit is due, I admire your persistence, even if some of it baffles me over points that are minor and irrelevant.

You seem like an intelligent person, and a man of your convictions. I respectfully bow out from our discussion.

I do hope we converse again on a topic that actually bears some fruit of some real healthy discussion. And a bit of fun, too.

Take care.

Here's the thing I think some folks don't seem to understand when it comes to Gwen in this series, Joker. Weisman has said repeatedly that since characters like Gwen, Harry, and Mary Jane showed up and met Peter after he graduated high school and entered college (well, in MJ's case, we sort of saw what she was like around ASM #25 prior to her being revealed in issue #42), they tried to imagine what these characters would have been like had they gone to the same high school as Peter.

In Gwen's case, we see her as a shy, insecure, and bookish wallflower that is part of the "geek squad," and yet behind the glasses and sweats, we do see glimpses of the fiesty, courageous, and compasionate Gwen Peter and some comic book fans have grown to love about her, such as when she stood in front of Peter to protect him from Flash's water balloons, or whenever she gives Peter "the look" whenever she gets upset with him.
And gradually over time, we see Gwen starting to emerge out of her shell both in physical appearance and in attitude. First it was MJ helping her make the first move on Peter when it came to her feelings for him; then, all through this season, Gwen's appearance gradually changed to the point where she now resembles the classic look John Romita had given her; and I'm sure if Season 3 comes around, I'm sure the show will show how, due to her pity relationship with Harry, Gwen will become more outspoken about her beliefs and her opinions, just like the comic book version.

It's all character development. We see this in Harry Osborn, as he too is "cowboying up" and becoming, in lot of ways, very much like his father in that, while not evil, certainly capable of being manipulative. And all ready, we know that he's a bit of a showoff due to his desire to be accepted. Likewise, with MJ, in that her attitude when first introduced is that she just wants to date purely for fun and not be involved in serious relationships; now after Mark Allen, we see that, perhaps, she's rethought that stance, and maybe this provides the opportunity for why she eventually starts to see Peter as more than just a friend like she did in the comics. Which should add irony to the classic Peter/Gwen/MJ triangle since MJ was the one trying to pair Peter and Gwen up all this time.

So, if and when a "Night Gwen Stacy Dies" does happen, because we have seen Gwen develop over the course of the series, become invested in her, see how well her and Peter are a "perfect couple," then her death becomes that much more tragic and dramatically satisfying because the audience wouldn't have wanted her to die and would want for Peter to really, really kill the Green Goblin or at least kick is ass HARD should he be the one responsible in this series as well.

You're absolutely right, mate. I didn't know until I read that interview with Weissman [see my post at the top of this page], that this Gwen was supposed to be a vision of what she was like pre college years.

So like you said, there's every chance we'll see her devlop into the classic Gwen Stacy character. Weissman himself said he loved Gwen from the comics.

Agree about Spider-Man: Blue. That's series was practically the last time both Gwen and Mary Jane were actually written in character.

So true. Especially regarding MJ.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

Here's the thing I think some folks don't seem to understand when it comes to Gwen in this series, Joker. Weisman has said repeatedly that since characters like Gwen, Harry, and Mary Jane showed up and met Peter after he graduated high school and entered college (well, in MJ's case, we sort of saw what she was like around ASM #25 prior to her being revealed in issue #42), they tried to imagine what these characters would have been like had they gone to the same high school as Peter.

In Gwen's case, we see her as a shy, insecure, and bookish wallflower that is part of the "geek squad," and yet behind the glasses and sweats, we do see glimpses of the fiesty, courageous, and compasionate Gwen Peter and some comic book fans have grown to love about her, such as when she stood in front of Peter to protect him from Flash's water balloons, or whenever she gives Peter "the look" whenever she gets upset with him.
And gradually over time, we see Gwen starting to emerge out of her shell both in physical appearance and in attitude. First it was MJ helping her make the first move on Peter when it came to her feelings for him; then, all through this season, Gwen's appearance gradually changed to the point where she now resembles the classic look John Romita had given her; and I'm sure if Season 3 comes around, I'm sure the show will show how, due to her pity relationship with Harry, Gwen will become more outspoken about her beliefs and her opinions, just like the comic book version.

It's all character development. We see this in Harry Osborn, as he too is "cowboying up" and becoming, in lot of ways, very much like his father in that, while not evil, certainly capable of being manipulative. And all ready, we know that he's a bit of a showoff due to his desire to be accepted. Likewise, with MJ, in that her attitude when first introduced is that she just wants to date purely for fun and not be involved in serious relationships; now after Mark Allen, we see that, perhaps, she's rethought that stance, and maybe this provides the opportunity for why she eventually starts to see Peter as more than just a friend like she did in the comics. Which should add irony to the classic Peter/Gwen/MJ triangle since MJ was the one trying to pair Peter and Gwen up all this time.

So, if and when a "Night Gwen Stacy Dies" does happen, because we have seen Gwen develop over the course of the series, become invested in her, see how well her and Peter are a "perfect couple," then her death becomes that much more tragic and dramatically satisfying because the audience wouldn't have wanted her to die and would want for Peter to really, really kill the Green Goblin or at least kick is ass HARD should he be the one responsible in this series as well.



Agree about Spider-Man: Blue. That's series was practically the last time both Gwen and Mary Jane were actually written in character.

Well said, Stillanerd.

 

[November Rain]

I want her death to somehow be linked to the symbiote.

not necessarily her death but peter's reaction to it, i want him to succumb to his inner emo and let the symbiote feed off him for a while.

it'd add life to his symbiote arc which feels like it's already run its course and ran out of steam.

apparently they planned something like this in the original draft for the second series.

i think it could also lead to a great versatilty in bringing the 'hi honey. i'm home' line back into play in a nice way.

 

[Spider-Man '92]

Yes, enough of this kid crap. Death is reality, we've seen it (very briefly) in the Final Curtain, so please, stick to the comics, and do something right, kill Gwen Stacy. It'd make the show much more dramatic.

 

[Anwar]

Anywho, they managed to do their version of Gwen and stay true to the comics at the same time: In the comics it was stated that Gwen was a beauty even in high school, and as such here they just had her make over into one after being a geek for the first while.

Now, we just need Peter to start wearing tighter clothes to show off his muscle tone and we'll have the beginnings of the less geeky Peter from the ESU days...

 

[nygma619]

In Gwen's case, we see her as a shy, insecure, and bookish wallflower that is part of the "geek squad," and yet behind the glasses and sweats, we do see glimpses of the fiesty, courageous, and compasionate Gwen Peter and some comic book fans have grown to love about her, such as when she stood in front of Peter to protect him from Flash's water balloons, or whenever she gives Peter "the look" whenever she gets upset with him.
And gradually over time, we see Gwen starting to emerge out of her shell both in physical appearance and in attitude. First it was MJ helping her make the first move on Peter when it came to her feelings for him; then, all through this season, Gwen's appearance gradually changed to the point where she now resembles the classic look John Romita had given her; and I'm sure if Season 3 comes around, I'm sure the show will show how, due to her pity relationship with Harry, Gwen will become more outspoken about her beliefs and her opinions, just like the comic book version.

The one thing about this Gwen is that this version is more sensible, compassionate, and peaceful then the other versions (yes I know I got this from wikipedia, but I agree with it). And I hope they don't forget that, because I like that about this version of her. Though I could see them breaking this mold every now and then.
And didn't I say this Gwen is one that evolves? Even before the Weisman post?

I want her death to somehow be linked to the symbiote.

not necessarily her death but peter's reaction to it, i want him to succumb to his inner emo and let the symbiote feed off him for a while.

it'd add life to his symbiote arc which feels like it's already run its course and ran out of steam.

apparently they planned something like this in the original draft for the second series.

i think it could also lead to a great versatilty in bringing the 'hi honey. i'm home' line back into play in a nice way.

???????

Yes, enough of this kid crap. Death is reality, we've seen it (very briefly) in the Final Curtain, so please, stick to the comics, and do something right, kill Gwen Stacy. It'd make the show much more dramatic.

To quote Lieutenant Frank Drebin (of Police Squad t "Well I can certainly see your in touch with your anger."

Anywho, they managed to do their version of Gwen and stay true to the comics at the same time: In the comics it was stated that Gwen was a beauty even in high school, and as such here they just had her make over into one after being a geek for the first while.

See what I said above about this Gwen still being different from the others because I'm too lazy to retype.

Now, we just need Peter to start wearing tighter clothes to show off his muscle tone and we'll have the beginnings of the less geeky Peter from the ESU days...

Am I the only one who doesn't mind the current Peter Parker design? Sure it's not that muscular, but he still looks less geeky. And still looks like a normal person.

Besides, that would mean they would have too add more lines to Peter's character model to show this. And the designs on this show work better when streamlined.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

If you want to get a good idea of what Gwen was like without going back to read all of the Stan Lee era, then pick up the TPB called Spider-Man: Blue:

That was such a great story, IMO. Even if you have read those issues, like me, this book is still a fantastic read.

 

[Anwar]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind the current Peter Parker design? Sure it's not that muscular, but he still looks less geeky. And still looks like a normal person.

Besides, that would mean they would have too add more lines to Peter's character model to show this. And the designs on this show work better when streamlined.

Not really, his design when he was wearing the black symbiote shirt in "Intervention" showed off the muscles rather well without changing too much. Same as whenever we see him sleeping in that tank top. Come to think of it, how DOES Peter hide his muscles underneath that shirt he wears? It doesn't look very baggy...

 

[nygma619]

Not really, his design when he was wearing the black symbiote shirt in "Intervention" showed off the muscles rather well without changing too much. Same as whenever we see him sleeping in that tank top. Come to think of it, how DOES Peter hide his muscles underneath that shirt he wears? It doesn't look very baggy...

He wears a turtleneck/long sleeve shirt underneath the blue shirt, that's why. Anyways, it's really not that big a deal for me.

 

[SpaceWay2009]

Nygma, what do you mean by streamlined?

I agree with Anwar. Peter does look muscular when he had the black shirt (symbiote) on and when he wore his white-beeter (?) to sleep.

Did Peter really wore tight/muscle shirts in college?

 

[SpaceWay2009]

Nygma, what do you mean by streamlined?

I agree with Anwar. Peter does look muscular when he had the black shirt (symbiote) on and when he wore his white-beeter (?) to sleep.

Did Peter really wore tight/muscle shirts in college?