Heroes and X-Men

[Raiden]

Recently, I brought the Official Magazine of Heroes (issue #1), and in an article devoted to the series' creator Tim Kring, they brought up the X-Men and here's what he said:

Furthermore, Kring isn't even a comic book reader. "I have trouble reading them," he admits. "My eye doens't know which way to go." So, no, he hadn't read X-Men or seen the first two films (he did see X-Men 3, but by then the Heroes pilot was already in production).

I can accept that Kring may not have ready X-Men comics, but his denial that he never watched the first two X-Men movies, to me, sounds like someone who is afraid that if he admits that he has seen the movies or knew about X-Men before he makes Heroes, people will think he stolen his ideas from them. As a X-Men fan, I strongly believe that Heroes was influenced by X-Men (just as many superheroes were influenced by Superman), but there's no shame in that because X-Men has been around since the 60's, so naturally many ideas were inspired by it. I don't think Kring should've pretend that Heroes have had absolutely no association with X-Men, when you can see many similarities between the two properties.

 

[Abaddon]

yup, sounds like bull**** to me.

 

[neemer5]

My mom, a middle aged lady who never picked up a comic in her life, and never saw an X-Men flick, cartoon, etc, knows some things about the characters. You literally have had to be to be living under a rock to not know X-Men.

And there are so many people involved with writing these shows, including fact checkers making sure plaigarism doesn't occur, that there is know way he didn't realize the similarities.

Its just not possible.

 

[04nbod]

liar. I bet the NBC lawyers are very happy right now

 

[ravana]

My mom, a middle aged lady who never picked up a comic in her life, and never saw an X-Men flick, cartoon, etc, knows some things about the characters. You literally have had to be to be living under a rock to not know X-Men.

And there are so many people involved with writing these shows, including fact checkers making sure plaigarism doesn't occur, that there is know way he didn't realize the similarities.

Its just not possible.

Indeed I don't know many people that aren't aware of the very basic elements of X-Men, but it seems even more unlikely that someone in Kring's profession or position would know so little... also if Kring actually is so ignorant of the 'genre' then he's showing himself to be very unprofessional. Anyone developing a creative idea will tell you one of the first steps is to research your idea... see whats already out there. If Kring knew so little about X-Men, for all he knew he could have been inadvertently ripping off the exact premise of that universe.

 

[chamber-music]

liar. I bet the NBC lawyers are very happy right now

exactly his covering his tracks. I reckon his full well read an X Men comic or seen the movies. He doesn't want to get his ass sued so of course his gonna say his never seen them.

 

[November Rain]

I know he's taken some general superhero powers and what not but there are plent of plot devices that are indeed similar...

Kring is completely talking trollocks.

Just because you haven't personally read something doesn't mean you aren't aware of certain plot lines and stories.

 

[neemer5]

What makes his comments even less plausible is the fact that the show is essentially designed to be a moving comic book, and comic books are an integral part of almost every aspect of the production.

For someone who doesn't read comic books, it seems odd that they have such a fascination with them.

 

[Raiden]

I just don't believe that Kring would watch X3 but conveniently skipped the first two X-Men movies. It sounds like he wanted to get all the credit for himself.

 

[GL1]

1) I know plenty of people who haven't seen the X-Men films or read the comics. They don't all live under rocks. Everyone doesn't have the same taste in entertainment as we do.

2) Aside from the basic concepts, which flow naturally, X-men and Heroes aren't all that similar. Yes evolution gives people powers (where else would they get powers from?), yes people may hate and fear people with powers one day (obviously, what else are they going to do?)... but beyond these obvious and virtually unavoidable concepts... these two fictions have nothing more than cursory parallels, no more than is shared with any other show. There's no reason to think that Kring had to steal evolution and fear of superpowered people from X-Men comic books... those are plots that write themselves.

Oh, and some powers. But I suppose that everyone who uses flight is copying superman... and that no one can come up with character that flies unless they're trying to make them like superman. You can't happen to use a piece of something unless you're trying to copy the original.

3) There are a lot of other people who work on Heroes, who DO read comics and HAVE watched all the movies that contribute creatively... it's quite possible for Heroes to copy something from X-Men without Kring being familiar with them.

So, in short here are the assumptions I disagree with:
1) Everyone, especially Hollywood HAS to be familiar with the X-Men.
2) If it's on X-Men and on Heroes, then Heroes copied it directly from X-Men.
3) Tim Kring is the one directly responsible for all similarities between X-Men and Heroes.

None of them have been proven, even though many people seem to believe them.

 

[neemer5]

1) I know plenty of people who haven't seen the X-Men films or read the comics. They don't all live under rocks. Everyone doesn't have the same taste in entertainment as we do.

2) Aside from the basic concepts, which flow naturally, X-men and Heroes aren't all that similar. Yes evolution gives people powers (where else would they get powers from?), yes people may hate and fear people with powers one day (obviously, what else are they going to do?)... but beyond these obvious and virtually unavoidable concepts... these two fictions have nothing more than cursory parallels, no more than is shared with any other show. There's no reason to think that Kring had to steal evolution and fear of superpowered people from X-Men comic books... those are plots that write themselves.

Oh, and some powers. But I suppose that everyone who uses flight is copying superman... and that no one can come up with character that flies unless they're trying to make them like superman. You can't happen to use a piece of something unless you're trying to copy the original.

3) There are a lot of other people who work on Heroes, who DO read comics and HAVE watched all the movies that contribute creatively... it's quite possible for Heroes to copy something from X-Men without Kring being familiar with them.

So, in short here are the assumptions I disagree with:
1) Everyone, especially Hollywood HAS to be familiar with the X-Men.
2) If it's on X-Men and on Heroes, then Heroes copied it directly from X-Men.
3) Tim Kring is the one directly responsible for all similarities between X-Men and Heroes.

None of them have been proven, even though many people seem to believe them.

Well, Kring hates comics apparently, yet somehow knows enough to make comic books a central theme in almost every aspect of his production.

Not everyone is familiar with X-Men, granted, but its seriously doubtful that Kring is unfamiliar with them. Like I said before, a 40 year old mom who never saw a comic book or X-Men movie knows SOMETHING about X-Men. They're an integral part of pop culture, and you'd almost have to out of your way to avoid X-Men references.

Kring may not be responsible for the powers and such, yet he has a huge staff. a bunch of writers and a lot of copyright pros and fact checkers that would have brought all this to his attention way before production began.

Mostly though: is comments were defensive in nature. Of all the excuses to pick, he picked some pretty transparent ones.

Now granted, a lot of the powers are pretty logical, and I'm not surprised to see overlap. X-Men has such a vast universe, that they've almost exhausted all potential powers that a person could possess. So I don't think he has to worry about feeling like a plagairist. I think he did the comic convention circuit, got some bad vibes from the rabid comic fans, and is now being sensitive, even over reactive to the situation. It would explain why he's giving off the "I'll do whatever fans want" vibe in his response to criticism about the show, and possibly why he's killing off unpopular characters with lame deaths.

 

[chamber-music]

I don't think he copied X Men but I think he was definitely influnced by them directly or indirectly. Obviously who can't come out and say this because some money grabbing lawyer will make a case against the show.

 

[GL1]

Well, Kring hates comics apparently, yet somehow knows enough to make comic books a central theme in almost every aspect of his production.

Not everyone is familiar with X-Men, granted, but its seriously doubtful that Kring is unfamiliar with them. Like I said before, a 40 year old mom who never saw a comic book or X-Men movie knows SOMETHING about X-Men. They're an integral part of pop culture, and you'd almost have to out of your way to avoid X-Men references.

Kring may not be responsible for the powers and such, yet he has a huge staff. a bunch of writers and a lot of copyright pros and fact checkers that would have brought all this to his attention way before production began.

Mostly though: is comments were defensive in nature. Of all the excuses to pick, he picked some pretty transparent ones.

Now granted, a lot of the powers are pretty logical, and I'm not surprised to see overlap. X-Men has such a vast universe, that they've almost exhausted all potential powers that a person could possess. So I don't think he has to worry about feeling like a plagairist. I think he did the comic convention circuit, got some bad vibes from the rabid comic fans, and is now being sensitive, even over reactive to the situation. It would explain why he's giving off the "I'll do whatever fans want" vibe in his response to criticism about the show, and possibly why he's killing off unpopular characters with lame deaths.

One 40 year old mother knowing about X-Men is no indication that most 40 year old mothers do. X-Men are not integral to pop culture... I rarely see them when I'm not looking for them.

Kring very well may be responsible for many of the powers, I just don't believe he would need to be inspired by X-Men to come up with someone who heals fast, or can hear thoughts, or can fly, or can turn invisible.

BUT, I do agree completely that Kring is being a punk and way overapologetic. Doing whatever fans want is... silly.

 

[04nbod]

The show has stan lee make a cameo and named kirby plaza after jack kirby any excuse that they don't know their stuff is bullcrap!

 

[Gilpesh]

Anything with people getting powers from genetics =/= X-Men rip-off

Which is why he should have just said, "I've heard of it." Plus anyone can make connections of how 'this ripped off that' or 'how this is so similar to this it had to be copying'.

 

[chamber-music]

 

[Syncos]

2) Aside from the basic concepts, which flow naturally, X-men and Heroes aren't all that similar. Yes evolution gives people powers (where else would they get powers from?), yes people may hate and fear people with powers one day (obviously, what else are they going to do?)...

Hrrmm.... Gamma radiation, toxic waste, super soldier experiments, being an alien, advanced technology, i'm sure there's one or two more ways, as well

 

[Magneto29]

ahahaha, great picture!

 

[S-M>BM]

Hrrmm.... Gamma radiation, toxic waste, super soldier experiments, being an alien, advanced technology, i'm sure there's one or two more ways, as well

2) Aside from the basic concepts, which flow naturally, X-men and Heroes aren't all that similar. Yes evolution gives people powers (where else would they get powers from?)

I think GL1 means in a realistic way. one thats actually possible.

 

[04nbod]

Another thing, the guy had Jeph Loeb read his first script! Did he just conveniently not mention the similarities. I was stunned at how similar Sylar destroying the trucks in the series one finale was like magneto in X3 and then the virus which is very similar to the legacy virus and the future worlds that are comparable to days of future past. Underlying ideas about mutant registration (i.e cataloguing who these people are and what they do like the company does) Hiro's mention of Kitty Pryde. Did Kring not ask about any of these things when he read the scripts. I don't think its a bad thing its so similar just annoying that it took another cast of characters to create a show marvel could have done for less well known mutants.