Hogwarts: Legacy - Open World Harry Potter Game

[Snow Queen]

 

[Sithborg]

I see they are still very much following Rowling naming conventions.

sigh

I feel for the people who loved the world. But, much like with Roald Dahls work, I can't help but see the problems through out the writing.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

OpenCritic - 86 average - 92% recommended - 52 reviews

The reviews are hilarious, but why do I sense a real, "busted like Cyberpunk" narrative will be avoided, because those that scream the loudest are too busy treating trans people like dirt?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm going to assume they're going to be forced to review it, but it's clear the staff at Gamespot rather not:

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/how-to-help-trans-people-by-donating-to-charity/1100-6511097/

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/j...nder-stance-and-hogwarts-legacy/1100-6501632/

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Game is great, what an intro. I'm enjoying it on PS5.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Game is great, what an intro. I'm enjoying it on PS5.

Two of my friends have started playing it on the PC and they love it so far

I’ll be picking it up for the PS5. Have a feeling my girlfriend is gonna be the one playing it more than me since she’s the Harry Potter fan. I kinda got into it more thanks to her lol

 

[henzINNIT]

This is definitely…a take.


Or, maybe, just maybe, people don’t want to support a game made and supported by known transphobic and anti-Semitic bigots who incorporate said bigotry into said game.

His comments aren't opposed to boycotting the game though. He's specifically criticising those who have taken to social media to tell anyone who does buy the game that they are transphobic and supporting bigotry. That's a more complicated issue. Applying morals to consumer products quickly becomes a can of worms considering how many companies/individuals are utter trash.

Act Man's larger issue seemed to be that arguing about a Harry Potter game on twitter is not an effective way to support the trans community. He suggested donating to charities instead and did so himself.

 

[Erzengel]

For those who purchased the game, there are those spoiling some of the endings on social media.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

His comments aren't opposed to boycotting the game though. He's specifically criticising those who have taken to social media to tell anyone who does buy the game that they are transphobic and supporting bigotry. That's a more complicated issue. Applying morals to consumer products quickly becomes a can of worms considering how many companies/individuals are utter trash.

Act Man's larger issue seemed to be that arguing about a Harry Potter game on twitter is not an effective way to support the trans community. He suggested donating to charities instead and did so himself.

It's not a can of worms. The creator has stated that her belief in her bigotry is vindicated by the amount she continues to make off the franchise. We also know exactly what she's been doing with that money. Namely supporting hate groups, funding attacks on pro-LGBTQIA+ laws, and opening bigoted shelters, in the name of pushing the idea that having trans women seek aid in a women's shelter, is somehow dangerous to cis women. There is a direct 1 to 1 pipeline here.

The issue with Act Man and anyone else who's been using the charity argument, is plentiful. First, charity, not that great a resource. It doesn't really go towards aid and most certainly doesn't go towards fixing the problem. To make such an impact you'd need to be a billionaire splashing your riches across media, in a campaign. Like Rowling will do with the money she makes from this game.

While I understand why people think charity helps, charity is more about the person giving, then those it's suppose to be "helping". The idea becomes, one's conscious is clear and thus they need not worry about the problem at hand. For 10 bucks, they too can enjoy the game from the franchise from the transphobic creator, guilt free. Which of course, the exact opposite of how change occurs. It's constant presence in the public eye that matters.

Social change from the ground floor up, has never been about charity/money. It's about a social consciousness, that is moved through civil unrest and action. As with suffrage, civil rights, gay marriage, the damn revolution, etc. These are things that are only possible when the public begins to reject something out of hand. When it becomes taboo to speak on the fun you had with the openly bigoted movie or show. To support the bigoted comedian. To speak of your love for the king or queen of TERF island. Now, it's not going to work yet. I see how people view trans folk. The majority is between pure hatred and indifference. But you have to start somewhere, and even if this boosts sales this time, in the long run, the issue is raised. And it will be raised again, and again, and again. As annoying persistent as a sit-in, a protest outside of a nightclub, or an ocean drinking far too much tea. That's the only way it has been proven to work.

Do I think some people are being too strong by saying anyone who buys it transphobic? Yes. Is it too strong to say they are supporting bigotry? I'd argue no, simply do to the author's own words. There is a reason WB and the developer here can't call out the bigotry, without losing out on money. That in and of itself is a fundamental factor. If the argument is, "well what about all your other stuff", the obvious answer there is, a video game isn't an necessity. More over, Harry Potter has become a platform from which bigotry is preached to the public. For every ill of Nike, people don't know about it, because it isn't an outward facing thing. It is with Potter, because of the creator.

What I think is fair to say, especially for those that claim allyship, is that buying this game shows a personal preference for one's own enjoyment over care for the current genocide against trans people. And that is what is happening:

Mapping Attacks on LGBTQ Rights in U.S. State Legislature

Scotland vows to challenge UK in court over gender recognition law veto

Transgender genocide - Wikipedia

The reason racists legislation is back en vogue, is because it has become socially acceptable for a large part of the country to be racist or at the very least, ignore racism in public. And with transphobia, it is much more publicly acceptable. Especially when you have an creator using their property as a platform, and people are more offended by those who point this out, then the fact that they're willingness to ignore it. If this was Trump producing something, I do not think the argument would be being treated in the manner it is.

If someone is truly bothered by being called transphobic for "buying a game" they should consider a) why it bothers them and b) why it has become something people have been saying.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Here is a perfect example of the issue. The developers put a trans character in the game. One might argue for diversity, the trans community would argue to cover their butts and clear their conscious. But the fact they can't even talk about the character in a straight forward manner, is the entire bloody issue in a nutshell:

 

[Mani-Man]

Media as usual does their worst to deal with this whole situation.
IGN is such a mess, their review makes so little sense and the way many Outlets avoid to tackle the subject, is a shame.

The whole situation is just awful for everyone.
As i always said, its a gray area to me.
You cant blame anybody who has a deep connection and love for the IP, but you also cant blame people who refuse to help support the IP.

I dont think there is a right way to deal with this.
Its a unfortunate situation where either way it hurts people.
If you dont buy the game, it hurts the developers, if you buy the game...it raises the IPs value that generates more money for Rowling to attack the Transgender community.

I know the Transgender community is hurting and has to do something, but attacking everyone that enjoys the game or so, is the wrong way imo.
The Community is in pain, full of anger and dissapointment...but harrassing people who only want to enjoy the Harry Potter World...is wrong.

I keep saying that this game could have been used for Transgender Positivity so much instead of what happens now.
Now you have literally people buying and upvoting it out of spite, to hurt the community.
This game could have been a step to make the IP a Transgender haven that would anger JK Rowling despite it making her money.
But now she gleefully can dance around because the Transgender community "lost" and is considered the bullies.

The game has Transgender representation...even if it was just done to go "Look we are inclusive"
Its a Successfull AAA game that has Transgender representation.
This is what people could have focused on.

Look at the Twitch numbers, imagine Transgender doing charity streams etc...promoting the game as Transgender Positive, despite the IP creator.
The amount of good this could have done for Transgender.

I dont blame the Transgender community for their anger and all...and i have no real room to tell them how to feel because im not in their shoes and dont know the pain they go through...but i do think that focusing on the positive, would have benefitted the cause far more.

 

[Sithborg]

Explain the positive? Because Sirona Ryan is up there with Cho Chang in terms of Rowling naming conventions.

And you cannot change the IP which has a really rotten core (seriously, I can't look at a lot of what she put in there without seeing a ton of bad stuff) while Rowling is still alive.

I don't exactly get angry at people playing the game. People I like are playing the game. What angers me is the complete refusal to re-evaluate the series.

 

[Snow Queen]

 

[henzINNIT]

What I think is fair to say, especially for those that claim allyship, is that buying this game shows a personal preference for one's own enjoyment over care for the current genocide against trans people.

Well that is the sad truth isn't it. Most people will be this way. It's a losing battle to pit a vulnerable minority up against Harry Potter. People en mass can be stupid, and selfish, and hate being told what to do. To link trans acceptance with rejecting a beloved childhood property is a terrible idea.

Please understand, the ethics of the situation are clear and I have no disagreements on that. It's just the strategy I'm looking at. Toppling Rowling's empire is not going to happen. That IP could survive a flop, and she'll be rich forever. This fight needs to be fought, but framing it here as a video game boycott has done more harm than good in my opinion.

If someone is truly bothered by being called transphobic for "buying a game" they should consider a) why it bothers them and b) why it has become something people have been saying.

They're not bothered. It has been met with mockery and trivialized. Now the game's success will be seen as a victory to the worst people involved. I've seen a-holes proudly supporting the game out of spite, and the trans community slated as shrill, overbearing bullies. Potential allies have been alienated, anyone who wanted to play the game will find nowhere to discuss it except in the worst places, and fairly average gamer personalities like Act Man end up in the divide defending people's right to enjoy their video games. A shame all round.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well that is the sad truth isn't it. Most people will be this way. It's a losing battle to pit a vulnerable minority up against Harry Potter. People en mass can be stupid, and selfish, and hate being told what to do. To link trans acceptance with rejecting a beloved childhood property is a terrible idea.

Please understand, the ethics of the situation are clear and I have no disagreements on that. It's just the strategy I'm looking at. Toppling Rowling's empire is not going to happen. That IP could survive a flop, and she'll be rich forever. This fight needs to be fought, but framing it here as a video game boycott has done more harm than good in my opinion.

I'm aware that toppling Rowling's Empire isn't going to happen. That's not the purpose of such a boycott, which I explained in my original post.

More harm to who? If the idea is trans people, that is not what I'm hearing. Their pain is centered in the normalization of a bigot and their bigotry. I'm hearing the former from cis people, especially those who want to justify why they should be streaming the game. People like Hasan, who ignores the voice of trans people, in favor of explaining how he knows what's best for them. Even as he's the admitted idiot.

They're not bothered. It has been met with mockery and trivialized. Now the game's success will be seen as a victory to the worst people involved. I've seen a-holes proudly supporting the game out of spite, and the trans community slated as shrill, overbearing bullies. Potential allies have been alienated, anyone who wanted to play the game will find nowhere to discuss it except in the worst places, and fairly average gamer personalities like Act Man end up in the divide defending people's right to enjoy their video games. A shame all round.

I'm pretty sure no one here is following this closer then me and if someone's support of the trans community depends on their ability to play one game, that says what it says about them and goes back to what I said before. they should consider a) why it bothers them and b) why it has become something people have been saying. 5 seconds of listening to a trans advocate talk about why you shouldn't want to buy this game makes it very clear to me. That doesn't mean you have to support the boycott, but the bitterness you speak of does not suggest a potential ally. It suggest someone who doesn't care about trans people. Because if someone is an ally to trans folk, listens to them, and still buys the game, they'd be comfortable enough in that allyship to not attack the community. And yes, it has been bothering people. It's why so called allies are complaining.

Also, if an ******* being spiteful is all it takes, then I fear how we're suppose to react to the rise of far right, outside of taking it. Bad people warping reality isn't going to change anytime soon, and I do not plan on giving in. Ever. Just because it was massively unpopular to sit-in a at a restaurant or get into a fight with a bigoted cop in front of a gay night club, does not change that they were all steps on the way to changing things.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

An overall point. If someone wants to buy and play this game and continue to support trans people, that's great. But consider for one moment if they are doing this, what is the need to advertise it to the world? Just play it and hopefully have a great time with it. But why do they need to go around spaces, ones they know are trans inclusive spaces, and start talking about how much fun they are having? If I was enjoying a bigot's cooking, you're sure as hell not going to find me advertising it to anyone. I'd just wallow in my shame and delicious food in private.

If the argument is it's a statement against "censorship" or some other form of oppression... yeah, that would say it all really.

 

[Sithborg]

Well that is the sad truth isn't it. Most people will be this way. It's a losing battle to pit a vulnerable minority up against Harry Potter. People en mass can be stupid, and selfish, and hate being told what to do. To link trans acceptance with rejecting a beloved childhood property is a terrible idea.

Please understand, the ethics of the situation are clear and I have no disagreements on that. It's just the strategy I'm looking at. Toppling Rowling's empire is not going to happen. That IP could survive a flop, and she'll be rich forever. This fight needs to be fought, but framing it here as a video game boycott has done more harm than good in my opinion.



They're not bothered. It has been met with mockery and trivialized. Now the game's success will be seen as a victory to the worst people involved. I've seen a-holes proudly supporting the game out of spite, and the trans community slated as shrill, overbearing bullies. Potential allies have been alienated, anyone who wanted to play the game will find nowhere to discuss it except in the worst places, and fairly average gamer personalities like Act Man end up in the divide defending people's right to enjoy their video games. A shame all round.

By the same token, opponents of the game and Rowling herself don't need to jump in or muck up someone's social media feed or Twitch stream like they're entitled to tell someone what they should and shouldn't play? If they aren't in favor of it, what good does yelling that to people who bought the game and are enjoying it do? Not like they're going to suddenly demand a refund because someone on Twitter that they've never met was angry at them.

God forbid CIS people experience a fraction of the anger for a decision that they did not necessarily have to that trans people experience just for existing. Because god forbid the people whose lives are literally on the line step a little bit over the comfort line of CIS people. Heard it all over the summer of 2020. And MLK has the perfect quote about those "allies" who can be discomforted out of support.

 

[henzINNIT]

I'm aware that toppling Rowling's Empire isn't going to happen. That's not the purpose of such a boycott, which I explained in my original post.

What use is a boycott if you can't affect the bottom line? A boycott that has no noticeable effect to the target's revenue will do nothing to change anything, only strengthen the resistance to it.

More harm to who? If the idea is trans people, that is not what I'm hearing.

Yes, trans people and the cause. Progress in this area requires you to reach the masses and to make them care. It is difficult, and being morally right is often not enough in the court of public opinion. Picking your fights is important. Centering something as fundamental as human rights on a video game has trivialized the issue and made it easy to 'lose' in the eyes of many.

It suggest someone who doesn't care about trans people.

These are generally the potential allies though. If you care already, you're probably an ally already. The goal is to make people care, right? Making people care is hard, when they can be stupid, fickle, stubborn, whatever. But it needs to be done for the sake of progress. This particular matter has been all too easy to dismiss as another case of twitter hysteria.

Just because it was massively unpopular to sit-in a at a restaurant or get into a fight with a bigoted cop in front of a gay night club, does not change that they were all steps on the way to changing things.

This is my issue though. When you think of the sacrifices, the protests and so on; the moral stands people have taken, and the consequences they have faced... refusing to buy a Harry Potter video game is rather pathetic in comparison.

God forbid CIS people experience a fraction of the anger for a decision that they did not necessarily have to that trans people experience just for existing. Because god forbid the people whose lives are literally on the line step a little bit over the comfort line of CIS people. Heard it all over the summer of 2020. And MLK has the perfect quote about those "allies" who can be discomforted out of support.

It is what it is. I'm only saying what I'm saying because I care about trans people and want a better life for them. I don't care for protecting cis feelings, only for furthering the goal of acceptance and equality for everyone, as effectively as possible. I'm disappointed by the way this situation has panned out because I think it drew dividing lines that weren't helpful for trans support.

I'll leave it be here though. No sense arguing this to death, I forsee this going around in circles, and I agree on the important part on this issue.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What use is a boycott if you can't affect the bottom line? A boycott that has no noticeable effect to the target's revenue will do nothing to change anything, only strengthen the resistance to it.

It's the public discourse that matters. A decade ago, this wouldn't of been imaginable. Now even IGN has to try and talk around it. Forbes is talking about. That matters.

Yes, trans people and the cause. Progress in this area requires you to reach the masses and to make them care. It is difficult, and being morally right is often not enough in the court of public opinion. Picking your fights is important. Centering something as fundamental as human rights on a video game has trivialized the issue and made it easy to 'lose' in the eyes of many.

What has gotten more attention for trans rights, then this discussion? Not the literal laws running through state legislature right now. The Dems won't even speak on them in any real manner, which it's all the right will talk about.

Moreover, I'm confused what the issue is. No one is being forced to take part. But tell the majority of the community to stay quiet and take it, while they watch a symbol of their oppression be celebrated is in no way doing them good. It's harmful, massively. Especially as transphobia is on the rise do to a lack of push back.

These are generally the potential allies though. If you care already, you're probably an ally already. The goal is to make people care, right? Making people care is hard, when they can be stupid, fickle, stubborn, whatever. But it needs to be done for the sake of progress. This particular matter has been all too easy to dismiss as another case of twitter hysteria.

I can't post the video do to language, but I would suggest The Council of Geeks video title, "Hollow "Ally-ship" (Stephen Fry, Hogwarts Legacy, and Rising Transphobia).

As for making people care, you do it by becoming unavoidable.

This is my issue though. When you think of the sacrifices, the protests and so on; the moral stands people have taken, and the consequences they have faced... refusing to buy a Harry Potter video game is rather pathetic in comparison.

Pathetic in what way? If anything, it's a simpler request. That's what gets me about this. If it doesn't matter, then why is the argument this is a bad look for trans people and their allies? Why do they need to let it go?

It's public conscious thing. The tip of the spear of transphobia in public conscious is Rowling and Potter, do to her actions, no matter how much Trump wants to co-op it. Our local town squares are the internet. Trans folk are working beyond this, but that doesn't t mean this doesn't matters. I've talked to and watched countless trans people speak on the pain this situation has caused them. It clearly matters to them, and thus it matters. I do not question their feelings, and that includes those who have decided to find comfort in the game. Enough people already do that.

It is what it is. I'm only saying what I'm saying because I care about trans people and want a better life for them. I don't care for protecting cis feelings, only for furthering the goal of acceptance and equality for everyone, as effectively as possible. I'm disappointed by the way this situation has panned out because I think it drew dividing lines that weren't helpful for trans support.

I'll leave it be here though. No sense arguing this to death, I forsee this going around in circles, and I agree on the important part on this issue.

I think it has exposed dividing lines that already existed, that a lot of people weren't willing to admit but trans folk and their allies already knew about.

I also think it's important to remember, that the majority not being happy, has never been a barometer for what does and does not work when it comes to social causes. All things are unpopular, until they aren't. It's the essence of resistence.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Actually laughing at the name Sirona Ryan. I don't know enough about the actual developers of this game to have an opinion as to whether that's just an unfortunate accident but... y'all maybe wanted to be extra careful with this particular subject matter as you try desperately to avoid the unavoidable controversy?

Also makes me think about how cool a trans character in the HP universe would have been to my almost universally former Potter fan trans friends before, you know, everything. So depressing.

 

[Snow Queen]

Actually laughing at the name Sirona Ryan. I don't know enough about the actual developers of this game to have an opinion as to whether that's just an unfortunate accident but... y'all maybe wanted to be extra careful with this particular subject matter as you try desperately to avoid the unavoidable controversy?

Also makes me think about how cool a trans character in the HP universe would have been to my almost universally former Potter fan trans friends before, you know, everything. So depressing.

The impression I get from Schreier, unless I'm misinterpreting, is that the character was thrown in as a shield/feel good pat on the back by the studio after Rowling's descent into transphobia icon, after multiple members of the team were rattled and others looked elsewhere for work. Judging from that, it feels deeply unsurprising that their token gesture isn't well-handled.

It did, however, lead to the hysterical IGN interview where IGN asked them to talk about it five times and the representative refused to say a word beyond vague "Hogwarts Legacy is a game for everyone" platitudes, not one specific, and IGN just kept going like they answered the question. Top 10 interview. No notes.

 

[Sithborg]

Actually laughing at the name Sirona Ryan. I don't know enough about the actual developers of this game to have an opinion as to whether that's just an unfortunate accident but... y'all maybe wanted to be extra careful with this particular subject matter as you try desperately to avoid the unavoidable controversy?

Also makes me think about how cool a trans character in the HP universe would have been to my almost universally former Potter fan trans friends before, you know, everything. So depressing.

As I have said, it fits her naming conventions. Cho Chang. Shacklebolt. Goldstein.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Actually laughing at the name Sirona Ryan. I don't know enough about the actual developers of this game to have an opinion as to whether that's just an unfortunate accident but... y'all maybe wanted to be extra careful with this particular subject matter as you try desperately to avoid the unavoidable controversy?

Also makes me think about how cool a trans character in the HP universe would have been to my almost universally former Potter fan trans friends before, you know, everything. So depressing.

It's an extremely harrowing to see trans folk so in love with the world, be faced with the reality that it has become a tool to bludgeon them with.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I didn't realize we were using measuring sticks to compare how people are victimized one way or another. What people experience outside of the game has no bearing on those who purchase and choose to stream the game. Nor should it. No one ought to go laying what they go through on a regular basis at the feet of someone who has and never had anything to do with that.

If people's feelings are hurt over something as minor as someone streaming a game that, as the developers have pointed out many times, Rowling had next to no involvement in the first place, then sounds like just fishing to play a victim card.

By the same token, opponents of the game and Rowling herself don't need to jump in or muck up someone's social media feed or Twitch stream like they're entitled to tell someone what they should and shouldn't play? If they aren't in favor of it, what good does yelling that to people who bought the game and are enjoying it do? Not like they're going to suddenly demand a refund because someone on Twitter that they've never met was angry at them.

How do you suggest people learn to have empathy for others, if folk are not allowed to express their pain and sorrow to them?

As for Rowling's involvement. Her influence was most certainly felt:


As for the bold bit, I ask, then why should people be upset about something far more minor, like the acknowledgement of Rowling's bigotry and how she's using Potter to further it, showing up on in their social media feed?

 

[DKDetective]

I didn't realize we were using measuring sticks to compare how people are victimized one way or another. What people experience outside of the game has no bearing on those who purchase and choose to stream the game. Nor should it. No one ought to go laying what they go through on a regular basis at the feet of someone who has and never had anything to do with that.

If people's feelings are hurt over something as minor as someone streaming a game that, as the developers have pointed out many times, Rowling had next to no involvement in the first place, then sounds like just fishing to play a victim card.

Your opinions on this board have been a constant stream of dogwhistling and veiled racism, sexism, transphobia, bigotry, and alt-right trolling. You damage the inclusivity and safe space of this forum for the exchange of legitimate and reasonable discussion.

And go back to the dark web from whence you came!

On a personal note, it has been utterly and absolutely clear you are a horrible human being since you bragged about your casual disregard for the safety of others by secretly removing your mask in movie theatres contrary to then applicable CDC guidance.