The Dark Knight Rises Honest Trailers - TDKR

[Hawkeye70000000]

Ta for the permission. I like believing in the truth.



Ehhh I don't think you got the point of the flick at all. The idea was that Dent was a better hero than Batman cos he was the hero with the face that people can identify with and believe in.

It was after Dent showed he was the hero by locking up half of the criminals that Bruce said to Rachel that Batman's time is nearly up and they could be together. He did it for Gotham. He does everything for Gotham. Like taking the fall for Dent. All for Gotham.

He was already Bats again before Alfie told him the harsh truth about the letter.

Simples.

The comment was about Bruce quitting his role as batman to be with Rachel and to steal her away from Harvey since they Harvey and Rachel were a couple at the time. Now I did notice the quote I was using came from the_joker on post 86. For some reason it did quote it like usual. The commit had nothing to say about who was the better hero, but, waiting for someone come along so that batman was no longer needed, inevitably that day never comes. There have been some complaining about Bruce quitting to be with rachel and stealing Rachel from Harvey. I was putting my 2 cents in. I was just commenting on part of the film not the whole film or its point.

 

[atomicbattery]

[/QUOTE]You're not wrong. It's spelled out in the movie.


Some people place way too much emphasis on Rachel's effect on his life as Batman. He did not want to quit being Batman just to be with her any more than he stopped being Batman after TDK because she died.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I've always found Harry Knowles 'love' of Batman a bit suspect, but when I saw Chris Gore (who really does love the character) railing against the supposed Batman-quit-because-of-Rachel thing on AOTS, I thought that maybe I had really fundamentally misunderstood the film.
Nice to have my reading of things affirmed.

 

[The Joker]

Thanks. I've always found Harry Knowles 'love' of Batman a bit suspect, but when I saw Chris Gore (who really does love the character) railing against the supposed Batman-quit-because-of-Rachel thing on AOTS, I thought that maybe I had really fundamentally misunderstood the film.
Nice to have my reading of things affirmed.

No problem, but I didn't do much. Just quoting what the movie tells us

I never liked Harry Knowles reviews myself. Rarely find myself agreeing with him.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, Harry is off the mark very often IMO.

 

[Anno_Domini]

It does have a lot of haters. I asked ya to prove me wrong. Ya haven't. Ya just always use your box office excuse. I used Avatar as an analogy. It's got the high scores, the money, the lists where it was named best flick of the year and all that jazz. But we all know it gets slammed to hell by loads of people. Same as Rises.

SO TDKR is polarizing. Something I've already said.

But not once do I believe TDKR has a lot of haters or the majority hates TDKR. That's BS.

 

[Deserana]

I'll never ever understand why a handful of people say that. Yes, he wanted to quit being Batman eventually. Dent himself even says this; "Who ever the Batman is he doesn't want to do this for the rest of his life. How could he? Batman is looking for someone to take over his mantle".

This is not the part that you see the big complaints about. The ending was totally in context with what Nolan established with the character's intentions, with Bruce retiring, and Gotham being inspired by him. I loved it, thought it worked as a perfect ending, especially with him ending up with Selina, who I think is the one love interest from the comics Bruce would end up with if he ever got a happy ever after. It's the 8 years of quitting which flies in the faces of all the aforementioned elements of TDK. Barely anyone was even thinking Batman was going to quit after TDK's ending. Total opposite. People were thinking Batman spent X amount of time being hated and hunted.

It was only when Nolan revealed there was an 8 year gap did the possibility of retirement come into people's minds;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=379863&highlight=active

Even then as you can see the majority still thought he was active even when we learned of the 8 year gap. It was that hard to fathom he could have quit for so long given what we were told in TDK.

I remember reading an Empire article in December where Nolan said that Batman adds his murderous reputation of killing Dent to his intimidation tactics. Such a cool concept that strongly suggested that Batman was not idle for the 8 years. Yet I never saw any of this in the film unless it was cut.

The way I saw Nolan's Bruce was as someone who was always looking for a way out. That The Batman was just a hurdle in his life he wanted to get over however in his mind after that there was always gonna be Rachel. He never compensated for anything that may happen to her. He was very naive. Not a complaint I loved this about this Bruce. So for Bruce at the end of TDK he essentially done his job as Batman even if it was in no way the way he envisioned Gotham really did not need Batman however for Bruce his normal life was gone. In TDKR he saw his way and a future and when he had the chance he took it.

I don't feel like the approach Nolan took with TDKR took away the effect of some the things in TDK. I did not think for one minute that Bruce would leave after TDK but I understand why he did and I happily went along with it. I think it worked because it was quite unnatural thing to do.

 

[hammerhedd11]

Did anyone see RLM's outtakes video of their part in the honest trailer? It's pretty funny, they basically just rag on people who nitpick the movie to death.

 

[BatLobster]

I remember reading an Empire article in December where Nolan said that Batman adds his murderous reputation of killing Dent to his intimidation tactics. Such a cool concept that strongly suggested that Batman was not idle for the 8 years. Yet I never saw any of this in the film unless it was cut.

Are you sure about that? I was rabidly following every single Nolan interview going into TDKR and I never heard him say this. It was an idea that had been kicked around by the fans, no doubt, but I'd be surprised if Nolan himself actually said something that isn't reflected by the film.

Did anyone see RLM's outtakes video of their part in the honest trailer? It's pretty funny, they basically just rag on people who nitpick the movie to death.

Just watched that....bwahahaha, greatness.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

This is a very funny video and it brings up some good criticisms, too. It's my favorite Honest trailer after The Avengers one.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I remember reading an Empire article in December where Nolan said that Batman adds his murderous reputation of killing Dent to his intimidation tactics. Such a cool concept that strongly suggested that Batman was not idle for the 8 years. Yet I never saw any of this in the film unless it was cut.

The way I saw Nolan's Bruce was as someone who was always looking for a way out. That The Batman was just a hurdle in his life he wanted to get over however in his mind after that there was always gonna be Rachel. He never compensated for anything that may happen to her. He was very naive. Not a complaint I loved this about this Bruce. So for Bruce at the end of TDK he essentially done his job as Batman even if it was in no way the way he envisioned Gotham really did not need Batman however for Bruce his normal life was gone. In TDKR he saw his way and a future and when he had the chance he took it.

I don't feel like the approach Nolan took with TDKR took away the effect of some the things in TDK. I did not think for one minute that Bruce would leave after TDK but I understand why he did and I happily went along with it. I think it worked because it was quite unnatural thing to do.

Agree. TDK's ending feels no way contradicted with what happens in TDKR, imo.

 

[JackWhite]

I remember reading an Empire article in December where Nolan said that Batman adds his murderous reputation of killing Dent to his intimidation tactics. Such a cool concept that strongly suggested that Batman was not idle for the 8 years. Yet I never saw any of this in the film unless it was cut.

The way I saw Nolan's Bruce was as someone who was always looking for a way out. That The Batman was just a hurdle in his life he wanted to get over however in his mind after that there was always gonna be Rachel. He never compensated for anything that may happen to her. He was very naive. Not a complaint I loved this about this Bruce. So for Bruce at the end of TDK he essentially done his job as Batman even if it was in no way the way he envisioned Gotham really did not need Batman however for Bruce his normal life was gone. In TDKR he saw his way and a future and when he had the chance he took it.

I don't feel like the approach Nolan took with TDKR took away the effect of some the things in TDK. I did not think for one minute that Bruce would leave after TDK but I understand why he did and I happily went along with it. I think it worked because it was quite unnatural thing to do.

I really wonder what exactly happened to that plot point? Could there be a scene on the cutting room floor of Batman interrogating someone and using even more excessive force, ala the interrogation scene with Maroni? Probably not, but it really makes you wonder.

 

[Fudgie]

I remember reading an Empire article in December where Nolan said that Batman adds his murderous reputation of killing Dent to his intimidation tactics. Such a cool concept that strongly suggested that Batman was not idle for the 8 years. Yet I never saw any of this in the film unless it was cut.

The way I saw Nolan's Bruce was as someone who was always looking for a way out. That The Batman was just a hurdle in his life he wanted to get over however in his mind after that there was always gonna be Rachel. He never compensated for anything that may happen to her. He was very naive. Not a complaint I loved this about this Bruce. So for Bruce at the end of TDK he essentially done his job as Batman even if it was in no way the way he envisioned Gotham really did not need Batman however for Bruce his normal life was gone. In TDKR he saw his way and a future and when he had the chance he took it.

I don't feel like the approach Nolan took with TDKR took away the effect of some the things in TDK. I did not think for one minute that Bruce would leave after TDK but I understand why he did and I happily went along with it. I think it worked because it was quite unnatural thing to do.

http://screenrant.com/dark-knight-rises-vs-the-dark-knight-comparison/

 

[Deserana]

http://screenrant.com/dark-knight-rises-vs-the-dark-knight-comparison/

Read it. I get it. Don't agree with it. Just another opinion that is no more legit than if a SHH poster wrote it themself.

 

[TheDevilIsMe]

The audiences and critics loved Avatar too, mon ami.

Ya can find a zillion sources that list it as one of the top 5 flicks of 2009

It doesn't change the fact that a crap load of people slam the hell out of it. Rises is in the same boat.

How small do you think the world is that you say a "crap load of people" slam TDKR?

Yay - my first post! Been a lurker for awhile, wanted to join. Might just post tonight but you never know. Anyway -

I agree with Fudgie. I loved 'TDKR' - but I can't go anywhere on the internet without reading "That film sucked"/"Big disappointment"/"Movie was a POS"/"I hated that film" - and that sort of thing. Not only do I see those comments everywhere, but they're the 'Top Rated Comments', to boot.

'Avatar' is another example.

Successful films that were loved by critics and the moviegoing masses can be 'hated'. Let me give you some examples -

'The Dark Knight Rises' - 2012

-8.7 IMDB
-87% on RottenTomatoes - 3.8 User Score Approval
-78 MetaCritic
-Featured in some Top Critics' Best of 2012
-Must Go! - Vote on Fandango
-MovieWeb - 97% Critic, 4.7 User Rating
-Yahoo! Movies Score - A+
-MovieFone - 4.5/5 Critics/Audiences
-A - CinemaScore
-SuperHeroHype Poll - 300 - 90% voted a 7 or higher

'Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull' - 2008

-7.0 IMDB
-RottenTomatoes - 77%/User Score of 3.5
-MovieWeb Fan/Critic Accumulated - 82% and a 3.8 "Great" score.
-CinemaScore= B+
-MetaCritic Score - 65
-Yahoo! Movies User Score - 4/5 Stars/B+
-BoxOfficeMojo Surveys - 41% gave it an A, 37%; B.
-MovieFone - 3/5 Critics/Audiences
-Empire Magazine's Top 500 Films of All Time
-MovieWeb - 83% Critic(284 reviews) - 3.8 User (Great)
-SlashFilmSurvey - 54,356 polled, 83% voted 'loved it'
-Featured in 3 Top Critics' Best of 2008
-#7 Best Selling DVD In America - 2008.
-Indiana Jones FanForum (TheRaven.net) Poll 2008 - 1,367 Users Poll - 85% Rated 7 or Higher

'Iron Man II' - 2010

-7.1 IMDB
-75% RottenTomatoes - 3.7 User Score
-57 MetaCritic - Still Good
-3/5 Critic/Users - MovieFone
-MovieWeb - 90% - 4.2 User (Great)
-Yahoo! Movies - 4/5
-#8 Selling DVD of 2010
-B+ CinemaScore
-SlashFilm - 45,312 Users Polled - 71% Liked It
-SuperHeroHype Poll - 466 Votes - 69% Voted 7 or Above

'Avatar' - 2009

-8.0 IMDB
-83 MetaCritic
-83% RottenTomatoes - 4.2 User Score
-CinemaScore - B
-MovieFone 4/5
-MovieWeb 92% - 4.4 User Score (Great)
-#1 Selling DVD of 2010
-4.5 Yahoo! Movies

I personally don't like 'Indiana Jones IV' and 'Avatar', myself. I do love 'The Dark Knight Rises' though and 'Iron Man II' was alright.

What I can't deny that while most people (the majority of filmgoers/critics/fans) at least like all these films above - what can't be denied is that they're all in the same boat in terms of how they all have acquired alot of haters.

I can't go anywhere online regarding 'Iron Man III' where I don't read about how 'bad' the second film was - how they need to 'redeem' themselves and such. It's sad, really. Audiences clapped at the end of 'Iron Man II' at my showings, and the DVDs sold very well, as well. I remember the internet community really liked it as well at the time. Not as good as the first but they liked it regardless. Now I see it on 'Worst Superhero Films' or on 'Worst/Most Hated Films of All Time' lists. Which I do not get.

'Avatar' - which made so many critics' Top 10 lists that year (2009) - you'll now find it on 'Worst Films' or 'Most Overrated' lists. On the internet you'll find that everyone you run into will trash it. I remember everyone loving that film when it came out - audiences clapped at the end of my showing and DVDs sold like wildfire. I remember people on the internet forums praising it all to hell. You couldn't get away from the phenomenon of this film. It was huge! And it still is.

'Indiana Jones' was a smash - becoming the biggest film of 2008 box office wise on the globe (TDK took the US) - and I remember people on the net an really liking it (and most people I knew) other than a few hyperbolic complainers on the net until about October of that year - and when South Park parodied the film and the reactions of some fans - that's when the hate took over the internet. I saw it 3 times just to see if I could like it (I did not) and each time the audience clapped/cheered and DVDs sold like crazy.

'The Dark Knight Rises' - Most everyone I know loved this film too, just like the previous films. It got great scores as you well know - and is one of the biggest films of the year and will be on some Top 10 Critics lists. It was loved on the internet but eventually alot of haters took over. I knew it would happen - it usually does.

Now, here's my point. Fudgie is right - 'TDKR' is in the same boat as 'Avatar'. It has ALOT of haters as of now. It's a shame but it is true. Does that mean that most people hate these films? Hell to the no!

'TDKR' (and the films listed as examples above) were VERY successful movies with critics and audiences. The only thing is that the success is foreshadowed by one thing - vocal minorities of haters who complain and rip these films. The fact that all the whining is heard often is why you'll see these films on 'Most Hated' or 'Worst Movies' lists.

The internet forum/commenting community that you see all the 'Hate' is only a fraction of a percent of people who go to movies. Those who vote in polls and score films are a chunkable size that DO represent how the general population feels about a film. 'TDKR' did amazing with general audiences and critics alike and it is one hell of a loved film - but it also has alot of haters that dominate the internet discussion just like the films above. That is the issue. And it's what the other films listed and many others not mentioned suffer from.

Films like 'TDKR', 'Indy IV', 'Avatar' and 'Iron Man II' don't score great #'s and score high in polls if the general public/critics/fans hate them or think they suck - they score great if most people like/love them. That's just the truth. The thing is that those that hate something will talk endlessly about it - flaming it and complaining endlessly. After awhile the internet becomes a place people go to trash something. That's just the honest truth.

These films have alot of haters, definitely - but that 'alot of haters' are such a small minority it isn't even funny. It's just they all congregate on the internet forums/comments.

I got dragged to an Indiana Jones Marathon in September - and I stayed for all 4 films and so did everyone else and the last film got the second most claps/cheers through the film and at the end. And I saw 'TDKR' at a screening this month and it got claps and cheers as well. If the haters of these films were not the vocal minority - I wouldn't have seen that and the films would've gotten crap scores.

And you know I'm being objective when I'm defending two films I hate.

That's my take on how films like 'TDKR' can have alot of haters but still be loved by the majority of filmgoers/public/masses. It has alot of haters - but most people liked it at least.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

The question will be what are people saying about it 4 years from now. The love for the movie could be a mile wide and an inch deep. It's not only that people could learn to like it less or learn to like it more, but that people that liked it will forget it as the new shiny objects come out. The haters take over when the "liking" of a movie by the masses is very shallow.

 

[TheDevilIsMe]

I do like the film alot - but the HonestTrailer was hilarious.

Relax people - HonestTrailers does trailers for good and not so good films. Making one of 'TDKR' is not a knock. They made one for 'TDK' which was also funny.

And I've noticed alot of people here get agitated at 'nit picks' or criticism.

Get used to the complaints, nitpicking and haters, guys. This film has plenty to nitpick and plenty of haters that will be dominating internet discussion for years to come.

If you hate the film - that's cool. No biggie. There's alot of haters around!
If you love the film - great. Most film-goers and critics did too so you're in the majority - stop worrying/whining about the haters!

Criticism for 'TDKR' is usually justified and legitimate. It's a good film but there's alot to nitpick and I feel the HonestTrailer summed it up good.

 

[Tequilla]

Agree. TDK's ending feels no way contradicted with what happens in TDKR, imo.

Offcourse it doesn't contradict. Its the natural progression. Not the actions , the small plot points , but the thematically implications of the previous movies and the fulfillment of his journey. There's a huge coherence in the way they threat Bruce Wayne over the 3 movies.

If one cant seem to grasp this concept......

 

[TheDevilIsMe]

The haters take over when the "liking" of a movie by the masses is very shallow.

Exactly - I've seen it happen with so many films. That's why I stop paying attention to what people on the net say about films I love once the 'lovers' have moved on - because if I start paying attention to it I start thinking I'm the only guy on the planet who likes whatever film it is when it's far from the truth.

It just becomes hard to shake off all the negative comments and remind yourself you're not in the minority.

It will be interesting to see what people here will be saying about 'TDKR' in a few years.

 

[godisawesome]

My only real complaint with nitpickers is when they complain about Bruce getting back to Gotham in 23 days or whatever, along with the idea that Bruce is lacking some connection to the "real world" because he's rich. It's bull$#!+.

This is Batman. And more importantly, this is Batman after the Batman Begins origin. Bruce had the capability to call up Alfred and leave whatever hell hole he'd entered, but he also restrained himself from doing so and built up connections in the international black market. In TDK, he himself decides to use South Korean smugglers to extract Lau, not Fox or Alfred. He managed to sneak into Burma/China without any problem in Batman Begins. Sneaking into the US isn't going to be a problem. And if a few spec ops guys can sneak in on a food truck, the issue isn't getting into the city.

And I think one of the subtexts for Selina and Bruce's relationship is that Selina is under-estimating Bruce's familiarity with her world. Bruce probably has met classy burglars before , and seems to be speaking from experience when he interacts with her. I figure that he may actually have had the connections to get them out of the nation on his own, and I figure that would be fun.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

I don't know, a lot of the stuff they seem super confused about in the video is directly explained or implied in the film. I wouldn't even call this nitpicking. I'd call it someone who didn't pay much attention.

Batman and Bruce dying on the same day isn't a plot hole at all. Bane's revolution was against the rich. The riot montage was showing the audience that many of Gotham's wealthy were being killed. This paved the way for Batman to fake his death.

He mopes around for 8 years because the Dent Act makes Batman un-needed in Gotham. Alfred even mentions this in DIRECT dialogue. "You're just waiting for things to go bad again". The 'magic' knee brace is a nod to TDKReturns and his limp/injury was more psychological than physical.

Bane explains his plan directly during the prison scene....not so complicated. It wasn't one riot, it was a montage and historically, most cities taken siege under occupation are deserted looking.

Regarding, background checks, Selina probably just showed up in disguise...at an event like that there are probably like 50+ waitresses/maids. Bruce not doing a background check or anything on Miranda is directly referred to in dialogue. Miranda "You can't save the world without first trusting it. Bruce "I'm trusting YOU". This was a big moment for Bruce which is why it was so devastating to him when she stabbed him in the back. He put his trust in her and in Selina. He's stabbed by Miranda and when it looks like he's lost hope in people, Selina saves him, redeeming this new quality about trusting other people, which leads to his character arc's conclusion at the end of the film.

Regarding "wasting hours making a fire bat symbol": One, Batman's greatest weapon is his theatrics. That was a huge theme in Begins and in TDK when he faced someone more theatrical than him. Two, Batman learned he could not face Bane in the shadows because as Bane says "They belong to me". So he adjusted his plan to go straight for Bane in the open, DAY light. Bruce was waiting for sunrise before the big shenangins regardless. Might as well make something that will make half Bane's goons **** their pants while your waiting.

Bane didn't break Bruce's back. He messed up one vertebrae or something.

Miranda killing Bruce 'when she had the chance' defeats the whole purpose of the plan, which as I said, Bane explains pretty easily in the prison scene.

Blake, Lucious and Mr. Reese are the only people to figure out Bruce is Batman.

Funny video, but most of that stuff is pretty easy to grasp.

Also, Batman isn't in The Bat before the explosion goes off and he certainly doesn't swim to safety. Nolan shouldn't have to explain every last detail( actually that's many people's problem with Inception). And yes gimmicks were used to trick the audience at the end. It was intentional, not a plot hole. The cinematography for said scene gives it away. The use of close ups doesn't allow us to see exactly where Batman is. Judging by the edges of the shots, we see the cockpit and assume The Bat. Doesn't mean it is. The Bat could have an escape pod....who knows. The point is when Nolan reveals the autopilot worked, he's telling us just that. Why would he wait until the last second and jump out and then use the auto pilot? He wouldn't, that's common sense. The ending shouldn't have to be completely explained and that's part of the fun. Theorizing how Bats did it. But most of the plot points are very clear the first go around. It still cracks me up that 5 minutes of screen time is dedicated to Bane breaking down his plan to Bruce and still no one seems to get it. Maybe they just can't understand Bane.

Great post, dude. Take a bow.

 

[Fudgie]

Yay - my first post! Been a lurker for awhile, wanted to join. Might just post tonight but you never know. Anyway -

I agree with Fudgie. I loved 'TDKR' - but I can't go anywhere on the internet without reading "That film sucked"/"Big disappointment"/"Movie was a POS"/"I hated that film" - and that sort of thing. Not only do I see those comments everywhere, but they're the 'Top Rated Comments', to boot.

'Avatar' is another example.

Successful films that were loved by critics and the moviegoing masses can be 'hated'. Let me give you some examples -

'The Dark Knight Rises' - 2012

-8.7 IMDB
-87% on RottenTomatoes - 3.8 User Score Approval
-78 MetaCritic
-Featured in some Top Critics' Best of 2012
-Must Go! - Vote on Fandango
-MovieWeb - 97% Critic, 4.7 User Rating
-Yahoo! Movies Score - A+
-MovieFone - 4.5/5 Critics/Audiences
-A - CinemaScore
-SuperHeroHype Poll - 300 - 90% voted a 7 or higher

'Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull' - 2008

-7.0 IMDB
-RottenTomatoes - 77%/User Score of 3.5
-MovieWeb Fan/Critic Accumulated - 82% and a 3.8 "Great" score.
-CinemaScore= B+
-MetaCritic Score - 65
-Yahoo! Movies User Score - 4/5 Stars/B+
-BoxOfficeMojo Surveys - 41% gave it an A, 37%; B.
-MovieFone - 3/5 Critics/Audiences
-Empire Magazine's Top 500 Films of All Time
-MovieWeb - 83% Critic(284 reviews) - 3.8 User (Great)
-SlashFilmSurvey - 54,356 polled, 83% voted 'loved it'
-Featured in 3 Top Critics' Best of 2008
-#7 Best Selling DVD In America - 2008.
-Indiana Jones FanForum (TheRaven.net) Poll 2008 - 1,367 Users Poll - 85% Rated 7 or Higher

'Iron Man II' - 2010

-7.1 IMDB
-75% RottenTomatoes - 3.7 User Score
-57 MetaCritic - Still Good
-3/5 Critic/Users - MovieFone
-MovieWeb - 90% - 4.2 User (Great)
-Yahoo! Movies - 4/5
-#8 Selling DVD of 2010
-B+ CinemaScore
-SlashFilm - 45,312 Users Polled - 71% Liked It
-SuperHeroHype Poll - 466 Votes - 69% Voted 7 or Above

'Avatar' - 2009

-8.0 IMDB
-83 MetaCritic
-83% RottenTomatoes - 4.2 User Score
-CinemaScore - B
-MovieFone 4/5
-MovieWeb 92% - 4.4 User Score (Great)
-#1 Selling DVD of 2010
-4.5 Yahoo! Movies

I personally don't like 'Indiana Jones IV' and 'Avatar', myself. I do love 'The Dark Knight Rises' though and 'Iron Man II' was alright.

What I can't deny that while most people (the majority of filmgoers/critics/fans) at least like all these films above - what can't be denied is that they're all in the same boat in terms of how they all have acquired alot of haters.

I can't go anywhere online regarding 'Iron Man III' where I don't read about how 'bad' the second film was - how they need to 'redeem' themselves and such. It's sad, really. Audiences clapped at the end of 'Iron Man II' at my showings, and the DVDs sold very well, as well. I remember the internet community really liked it as well at the time. Not as good as the first but they liked it regardless. Now I see it on 'Worst Superhero Films' or on 'Worst/Most Hated Films of All Time' lists. Which I do not get.

'Avatar' - which made so many critics' Top 10 lists that year (2009) - you'll now find it on 'Worst Films' or 'Most Overrated' lists. On the internet you'll find that everyone you run into will trash it. I remember everyone loving that film when it came out - audiences clapped at the end of my showing and DVDs sold like wildfire. I remember people on the internet forums praising it all to hell. You couldn't get away from the phenomenon of this film. It was huge! And it still is.

'Indiana Jones' was a smash - becoming the biggest film of 2008 box office wise on the globe (TDK took the US) - and I remember people on the net an really liking it (and most people I knew) other than a few hyperbolic complainers on the net until about October of that year - and when South Park parodied the film and the reactions of some fans - that's when the hate took over the internet. I saw it 3 times just to see if I could like it (I did not) and each time the audience clapped/cheered and DVDs sold like crazy.

'The Dark Knight Rises' - Most everyone I know loved this film too, just like the previous films. It got great scores as you well know - and is one of the biggest films of the year and will be on some Top 10 Critics lists. It was loved on the internet but eventually alot of haters took over. I knew it would happen - it usually does.

Now, here's my point. Fudgie is right - 'TDKR' is in the same boat as 'Avatar'. It has ALOT of haters as of now. It's a shame but it is true. Does that mean that most people hate these films? Hell to the no!

'TDKR' (and the films listed as examples above) were VERY successful movies with critics and audiences. The only thing is that the success is foreshadowed by one thing - vocal minorities of haters who complain and rip these films. The fact that all the whining is heard often is why you'll see these films on 'Most Hated' or 'Worst Movies' lists.

The internet forum/commenting community that you see all the 'Hate' is only a fraction of a percent of people who go to movies. Those who vote in polls and score films are a chunkable size that DO represent how the general population feels about a film. 'TDKR' did amazing with general audiences and critics alike and it is one hell of a loved film - but it also has alot of haters that dominate the internet discussion just like the films above. That is the issue. And it's what the other films listed and many others not mentioned suffer from.

Films like 'TDKR', 'Indy IV', 'Avatar' and 'Iron Man II' don't score great #'s and score high in polls if the general public/critics/fans hate them or think they suck - they score great if most people like/love them. That's just the truth. The thing is that those that hate something will talk endlessly about it - flaming it and complaining endlessly. After awhile the internet becomes a place people go to trash something. That's just the honest truth.

These films have alot of haters, definitely - but that 'alot of haters' are such a small minority it isn't even funny. It's just they all congregate on the internet forums/comments.

I got dragged to an Indiana Jones Marathon in September - and I stayed for all 4 films and so did everyone else and the last film got the second most claps/cheers through the film and at the end. And I saw 'TDKR' at a screening this month and it got claps and cheers as well. If the haters of these films were not the vocal minority - I wouldn't have seen that and the films would've gotten crap scores.

And you know I'm being objective when I'm defending two films I hate.

That's my take on how films like 'TDKR' can have alot of haters but still be loved by the majority of filmgoers/public/masses. It has alot of haters - but most people liked it at least.

The fact that a film like 'TDKR' has alot of haters doesn't mean that most people love the film.

Welcome aboard. Hell of an awesome first post. Take a bow.

Facts are facts. Rises has a ton of haters.

 

[BatLobster]

Overall nostalgia for the Nolan trilogy will help TDKR in the long run IMO. These were special movies that had a ginormous balls and affected tons of people. And they were in stark contrast to all the other films of their genre in many ways.

The trilogy will be remembered fondly. I think it will be the haters that burn out first.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Read it. I get it. Don't agree with it. Just another opinion that is no more legit than if a SHH poster wrote it themself.

 

[Sharkboy]

People nitpick too much about films, they obsess over minute details, all of which are superficial because plots are basically the candy coat over the chocolate, the chocolate being the human drama and character dynamics, the themes and motifs. All i hear from the majority of people that dislike TDKR is, "oh yeah it's dumb, why did bane leave bruce in a cave so he could climb out, he should have killed him instead of coming up with a convulted plan to destory gotham" or "why did they have such a cliched climax...a nuke in gotham how original!"...to me that just misses the entire point and maybe I'm just too old to not understand this, or too young to not care about such matters but whether it was the poetry of the film or just the context of the trilogy I saw a point in nearly everything in TDKR, and what it told me about the character that Nolan crafted, about the world was something that i took to heart, and it resonates with me (and apparantly alot of people) every time i watch it. From the symbolism to him gaining back the fear he tried so hard to lose and "rising" and being reborn, to the poetry of "the 5 points of gotham" aka the 5 integral figures that bring Bruce back and help him in saving the city. It's a deeper thing that i take from it...and i can't imagine anyone who nitpicks the film understands that or even allows themselves to. So i don't particularly think the majority of the films haters...even understand the film. (yeah it's a well worn and particularly childish defence, but i call it as i see it)

That being said i have talked to a few (few and far between) people who genuinely dislike the film, that have no problem with comic continuity or percieved plotholes, who genuinely didn't feel as moved by the scenes or just hated nolan's "montage" style direction, or the terrible glut in the first half of the film, the terrible editiing, talia, the more fantastical approach to the material as opposed to the more "crime drama" feel of the second. These are real criticisms...I can discuss these all day, but when someone goes "this film sucks...clearly batman could not have entered gotham it's under siege, im so smart i poked a hole through this story, come see how smart i am, despite any lack of imagination i have" I tend to not take anything else they say seriously.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Yay - my first post! Been a lurker for awhile, wanted to join. Might just post tonight but you never know. Anyway -

I agree with Fudgie. I loved 'TDKR' - but I can't go anywhere on the internet without reading "That film sucked"/"Big disappointment"/"Movie was a POS"/"I hated that film" - and that sort of thing. Not only do I see those comments everywhere, but they're the 'Top Rated Comments', to boot.

'Avatar' is another example.

Successful films that were loved by critics and the moviegoing masses can be 'hated'. Let me give you some examples -

'The Dark Knight Rises' - 2012

-8.7 IMDB
-87% on RottenTomatoes - 3.8 User Score Approval
-78 MetaCritic
-Featured in some Top Critics' Best of 2012
-Must Go! - Vote on Fandango
-MovieWeb - 97% Critic, 4.7 User Rating
-Yahoo! Movies Score - A+
-MovieFone - 4.5/5 Critics/Audiences
-A - CinemaScore
-SuperHeroHype Poll - 300 - 90% voted a 7 or higher

'Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull' - 2008

-7.0 IMDB
-RottenTomatoes - 77%/User Score of 3.5
-MovieWeb Fan/Critic Accumulated - 82% and a 3.8 "Great" score.
-CinemaScore= B+
-MetaCritic Score - 65
-Yahoo! Movies User Score - 4/5 Stars/B+
-BoxOfficeMojo Surveys - 41% gave it an A, 37%; B.
-MovieFone - 3/5 Critics/Audiences
-Empire Magazine's Top 500 Films of All Time
-MovieWeb - 83% Critic(284 reviews) - 3.8 User (Great)
-SlashFilmSurvey - 54,356 polled, 83% voted 'loved it'
-Featured in 3 Top Critics' Best of 2008
-#7 Best Selling DVD In America - 2008.
-Indiana Jones FanForum (TheRaven.net) Poll 2008 - 1,367 Users Poll - 85% Rated 7 or Higher

'Iron Man II' - 2010

-7.1 IMDB
-75% RottenTomatoes - 3.7 User Score
-57 MetaCritic - Still Good
-3/5 Critic/Users - MovieFone
-MovieWeb - 90% - 4.2 User (Great)
-Yahoo! Movies - 4/5
-#8 Selling DVD of 2010
-B+ CinemaScore
-SlashFilm - 45,312 Users Polled - 71% Liked It
-SuperHeroHype Poll - 466 Votes - 69% Voted 7 or Above

'Avatar' - 2009

-8.0 IMDB
-83 MetaCritic
-83% RottenTomatoes - 4.2 User Score
-CinemaScore - B
-MovieFone 4/5
-MovieWeb 92% - 4.4 User Score (Great)
-#1 Selling DVD of 2010
-4.5 Yahoo! Movies

I personally don't like 'Indiana Jones IV' and 'Avatar', myself. I do love 'The Dark Knight Rises' though and 'Iron Man II' was alright.

What I can't deny that while most people (the majority of filmgoers/critics/fans) at least like all these films above - what can't be denied is that they're all in the same boat in terms of how they all have acquired alot of haters.

I can't go anywhere online regarding 'Iron Man III' where I don't read about how 'bad' the second film was - how they need to 'redeem' themselves and such. It's sad, really. Audiences clapped at the end of 'Iron Man II' at my showings, and the DVDs sold very well, as well. I remember the internet community really liked it as well at the time. Not as good as the first but they liked it regardless. Now I see it on 'Worst Superhero Films' or on 'Worst/Most Hated Films of All Time' lists. Which I do not get.

'Avatar' - which made so many critics' Top 10 lists that year (2009) - you'll now find it on 'Worst Films' or 'Most Overrated' lists. On the internet you'll find that everyone you run into will trash it. I remember everyone loving that film when it came out - audiences clapped at the end of my showing and DVDs sold like wildfire. I remember people on the internet forums praising it all to hell. You couldn't get away from the phenomenon of this film. It was huge! And it still is.

'Indiana Jones' was a smash - becoming the biggest film of 2008 box office wise on the globe (TDK took the US) - and I remember people on the net an really liking it (and most people I knew) other than a few hyperbolic complainers on the net until about October of that year - and when South Park parodied the film and the reactions of some fans - that's when the hate took over the internet. I saw it 3 times just to see if I could like it (I did not) and each time the audience clapped/cheered and DVDs sold like crazy.

'The Dark Knight Rises' - Most everyone I know loved this film too, just like the previous films. It got great scores as you well know - and is one of the biggest films of the year and will be on some Top 10 Critics lists. It was loved on the internet but eventually alot of haters took over. I knew it would happen - it usually does.

Now, here's my point. Fudgie is right - 'TDKR' is in the same boat as 'Avatar'. It has ALOT of haters as of now. It's a shame but it is true. Does that mean that most people hate these films? Hell to the no!

'TDKR' (and the films listed as examples above) were VERY successful movies with critics and audiences. The only thing is that the success is foreshadowed by one thing - vocal minorities of haters who complain and rip these films. The fact that all the whining is heard often is why you'll see these films on 'Most Hated' or 'Worst Movies' lists.

The internet forum/commenting community that you see all the 'Hate' is only a fraction of a percent of people who go to movies. Those who vote in polls and score films are a chunkable size that DO represent how the general population feels about a film. 'TDKR' did amazing with general audiences and critics alike and it is one hell of a loved film - but it also has alot of haters that dominate the internet discussion just like the films above. That is the issue. And it's what the other films listed and many others not mentioned suffer from.

Films like 'TDKR', 'Indy IV', 'Avatar' and 'Iron Man II' don't score great #'s and score high in polls if the general public/critics/fans hate them or think they suck - they score great if most people like/love them. That's just the truth. The thing is that those that hate something will talk endlessly about it - flaming it and complaining endlessly. After awhile the internet becomes a place people go to trash something. That's just the honest truth.

These films have alot of haters, definitely - but that 'alot of haters' are such a small minority it isn't even funny. It's just they all congregate on the internet forums/comments.

I got dragged to an Indiana Jones Marathon in September - and I stayed for all 4 films and so did everyone else and the last film got the second most claps/cheers through the film and at the end. And I saw 'TDKR' at a screening this month and it got claps and cheers as well. If the haters of these films were not the vocal minority - I wouldn't have seen that and the films would've gotten crap scores.

And you know I'm being objective when I'm defending two films I hate.

That's my take on how films like 'TDKR' can have alot of haters but still be loved by the majority of filmgoers/public/masses. It has alot of haters - but most people liked it at least.

The fact that a film like 'TDKR' has alot of haters doesn't mean that most people love the film.

I noticed the same thing on several other forums I post on. There is a lot of flak and critiques towards the movie. I personally find most of them are valid criticisms that take the enjoyment out of the movie. I don't find all of the Honest trailers points credible, some of them are just in it for comedy. But I do find a lot of them valid.