How do you feel about Marvel's second wave heroes?

[Iceman]

I think Loki is a shoe-in. However, as we all know, MCU really doesn't do death in it's finite meaning.

There have been too many fakeouts (aside from in [BLACKOUT]GotG2 and AoU[/BLACKOUT]) but I don't think it was really appropriate to kill characters until now anyway. Avengers 4 is the best time to do it IMO when we've known the characters for a long time, when they've known each other for a long time, and during the biggest threat rather than at the hands of an Ultron or Loki.

 

[DrCosmic]

Drax is just a possible due to his back story with Thanos. I'd prefer he stayed for future Guardians films.

I didn't expect more than one of the original 6 to die here until recent comments about the guard changing by the likes of Scarlett. Not necessarily death for all of them, but it has sounded like at least retirement from many of the originals and I hope either that that is not the case, or that they continue to show up in other character's films or in the background of future team films.

I'm making my calls here and now:
Cap - dies
Tony - gets married, total retirement, now a Spider-Man supporting character
Thor - assumes the throne, total retirement
Hulk - Banner disappears into Hulk who goes off somewhere, likely cosmic
Widow - Goes back under cover somewhere, potentially coming back
Hawkeye - ... he might die too, now that I think about it. But he's definitely retiring, but he'll have an opening to come back.

It's really hard to guess what will happen with the 1.5th wave:

Scarlet Witch - Probably just stays on.
Vision - Oh, he ded. Might be brought back depowered.
War Machine - Oh he's definitely retiring to some government position that creates conflict of interest
Bucky - Retires, no interest in Avengers, becomes BP or BW supporting cast?
Falcon - Stays on as new Cap, becomes a supporting character in Avengers films

 

[Spider-Fan]

Retiring the 'big 4' hitters on the original line up does mean they evade the re-cast debate, so will probably take that if it's an option.

Retire and kill are different. All of them may retire, but I see only 1 dying. My pick is Stark. I think AoU foreshadowed it. I see Cap mentoring the next wave of Avengers, Thor retiring as king, and Hulk doing whatever he wants to do.

If they're retired, they can make a guest spot another day. I see more retirement than death.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm making my calls here and now:
Cap - dies
Tony - gets married, total retirement, now a Spider-Man supporting character
Thor - assumes the throne, total retirement
Hulk - Banner disappears into Hulk who goes off somewhere, likely cosmic
Widow - Goes back under cover somewhere, potentially coming back
Hawkeye - ... he might die too, now that I think about it. But he's definitely retiring, but he'll have an opening to come back.

It's really hard to guess what will happen with the 1.5th wave:

Scarlet Witch - Probably just stays on.
Vision - Oh, he ded. Might be brought back depowered.
War Machine - Oh he's definitely retiring to some government position that creates conflict of interest
Bucky - Retires, no interest in Avengers, becomes BP or BW supporting cast?
Falcon - Stays on as new Cap, becomes a supporting character in Avengers films

I just don't think movie Falcon has earned being Captain America. He's not developed enough, and I don't think he will be emphasized enough with how crowded IW and Avengers 4 are to warrant it. Bucky is far more developed. But even there, I don't see him becoming a new Captain America. I honestly see Cap settling into a mentor role (someone has to stay to break in the newbies, and who better than Cap). Even if Cap dies, I don't see there being a new Captain America. Just because the comics did it doesn't mean the MCU will.

 

[Iceman]

This

You want stakes, but you also need the deaths to be meaningful. Therefore, you cannot overplay that card. Just think of an event like Ultimatum. Killed lots of people, did anyone care? No. Sometimes less is more

Yeah. The deaths that do happen at least suggest that everyone is at risk of dying which lifts the stakes by itself, and the human brain I don't think is that good at processing multiple deaths as being proportionally worse than one or 2 impactful ones.

 

[Kuwolski]

I'm making my calls here and now:
Cap - dies
Tony - gets married, total retirement, now a Spider-Man supporting character
Thor - assumes the throne, total retirement
Hulk - Banner disappears into Hulk who goes off somewhere, likely cosmic
Widow - Goes back under cover somewhere, potentially coming back
Hawkeye - ... he might die too, now that I think about it. But he's definitely retiring, but he'll have an opening to come back.

It's really hard to guess what will happen with the 1.5th wave:

Scarlet Witch - Probably just stays on.
Vision - Oh, he ded. Might be brought back depowered.
War Machine - Oh he's definitely retiring to some government position that creates conflict of interest
Bucky - Retires, no interest in Avengers, becomes BP or BW supporting cast?
Falcon - Stays on as new Cap, becomes a supporting character in Avengers films

It makes far more sense for Bucky to become the new Cap considering what Steve has sacrificed for him. I think it would be far more poetic. Plus he's got much better franchise potential moving forward then Falcon. Who wants the new Captain America in a supporting role if he'll be used again? Bucky is headliner Avengers material.

 

[DrCosmic]

I just don't think movie Falcon has earned being Captain America. He's not developed enough, and I don't think he will be emphasized enough with how crowded IW and Avengers 4 are to warrant it. Bucky is far more developed. But even there, I don't see him becoming a new Captain America. I honestly see Cap settling into a mentor role (someone has to stay to break in the newbies, and who better than Cap). Even if Cap dies, I don't see there being a new Captain America. Just because the comics did it doesn't mean the MCU will.

It makes far more sense for Bucky to become the new Cap considering what Steve has sacrificed for him. I think it would be far more poetic. Plus he's got much better franchise potential moving forward then Falcon. Who wants the new Captain America in a supporting role if he'll be used again? Bucky is headliner Avengers material.

Good points, FalconCap isn't a very strong move. I do think it's more likely we'll see Sam in that supporting role, since that's the role he already serves.

That said, because Bucky's whole arc is being a damsel for Steve, he doesn't really have any franchise potential either, especially when stacked up against those with actual franchises.

I do see your point in that there is a potential springboard there because Captain America as a franchise is in a way about saving Bucky, there could be a way to segue into Bucky trying to save himself now as Captain America. There's something there. I don't think it's a franchise though, and I don't think that audiences would be more turned off by the idea of him being a supporting cast in that role than they are of Hulk doing the same thing.

 

[Iceman]

I'm making my calls here and now:
Cap - dies
Tony - gets married, total retirement, now a Spider-Man supporting character
Thor - assumes the throne, total retirement
Hulk - Banner disappears into Hulk who goes off somewhere, likely cosmic
Widow - Goes back under cover somewhere, potentially coming back
Hawkeye - ... he might die too, now that I think about it. But he's definitely retiring, but he'll have an opening to come back.

It's really hard to guess what will happen with the 1.5th wave:

Scarlet Witch - Probably just stays on.
Vision - Oh, he ded. Might be brought back depowered.
War Machine - Oh he's definitely retiring to some government position that creates conflict of interest
Bucky - Retires, no interest in Avengers, becomes BP or BW supporting cast?
Falcon - Stays on as new Cap, becomes a supporting character in Avengers films

I'd like for whoever is still alive to come back in some form for the end of phase events, even for minor missions while the others do the major legwork. Between Cap and Iron Man I'm expecting one death and one retirement. Thor I'd expect to become king more full time but hopefully a Thor 4 isn't impossible, as well as Widow and Hawkeye coming back in a Widow solo. Hulk I expect to survive but not sure where he'd show up next aside from being an emergency recruit for the next big event (maybe Skrulls!). Anyone else who's not an original and still alive should be able to appear as and when other characters films call on them (and not if they don't) until future event films.

 

[Kuwolski]

Good points, FalconCap isn't a very strong move. I do think it's more likely we'll see Sam in that supporting role, since that's the role he already serves.

That said, I don't think we'll see Bucky Cap either, and because his whole arc is being a damsel for Steve, he doesn't really have any franchise potential either, especially when stacked up against those with actual franchises like BP, Dr. S and Captain Marvel.

But the audience has an emotional connection to Bucky and he's a badass outlaw character that would add an interesting dynamic to the new Avengers going forward. Watching him struggle with what he was made to become vs. what he is trying to be and live up to would be interesting to explore. His way of getting close to Steve even after death. Very moving stuff.

I'd love to see a Winter Soldier type franchise with Bucky. Great potential.

 

[Zarex]

I'm making my calls here and now:
Cap - dies
Tony - gets married, total retirement, now a Spider-Man supporting character
Thor - assumes the throne, total retirement
Hulk - Banner disappears into Hulk who goes off somewhere, likely cosmic
Widow - Goes back under cover somewhere, potentially coming back
Hawkeye - ... he might die too, now that I think about it. But he's definitely retiring, but he'll have an opening to come back.

It's really hard to guess what will happen with the 1.5th wave:

Scarlet Witch - Probably just stays on.
Vision - Oh, he ded. Might be brought back depowered.
War Machine - Oh he's definitely retiring to some government position that creates conflict of interest
Bucky - Retires, no interest in Avengers, becomes BP or BW supporting cast?
Falcon - Stays on as new Cap, becomes a supporting character in Avengers films

Those are some good ones. I have a few here:

Cap - I wouldn't be surprised if they retire the Captain America name with Steve and bury the shield with him.
Hulk - I could see either becoming a full time Hulk or a full time Banner with someone else (his cousin?) taking on the mantle.
Scarlet Witch - Leaves the Avengers to train with Dr. Strange and become a member of his Midnight Sons.
Vision - Becomes one with the mind gem and evolves into a full fledged cosmic being.
Thor - King Thor moves with the remaining Asgardians to a seaside plot of land in Norway, with Valkyrie taking his place on the Avengers.
Loki - A last bit gambit to avoid death by Thanos turns him into Lady (or Kid) Loki.

 

[Boy Scout]

Panther: Love him.

Spider-Man: I think he’s low key annoying.

Strange: He’s fine.

Ant-Man: Indifferent.

Marvel: ?

 

[DrCosmic]

But the audience has an emotional connection to Bucky and he's a badass outlaw character that would add an interesting dynamic to the new Avengers going forward. Watching him struggle with what he was made to become vs. what he is trying to be and live up to would be interesting to explore. His way of getting close to Steve even after death. Very moving stuff.

I'd love to see a Winter Soldier type franchise with Bucky. Great potential.

Moving yes, but it's not a franchise in the same way that Cosmic, Wakanda, Magic, Spidey's NYC and the like are. Every single one of those franchises has a badass outlaw character, and so Bucky doesn't bring anything unique as a franchise beyond the perspective on Steve's franchise. The fact that Bucky doesn't work on his own as a franchise unless Steve is going to die kinda underlines why he isn't his own thing. Definitely moving, like Hulk, but with much less originality or having their own world.

Those are some good ones. I have a few here:

Cap - I wouldn't be surprised if they retire the Captain America name with Steve and bury the shield with him.
Hulk - I could see either becoming a full time Hulk or a full time Banner with someone else (his cousin?) taking on the mantle.
Scarlet Witch - Leaves the Avengers to train with Dr. Strange and become a member of his Midnight Sons.
Vision - Becomes one with the mind gem and evolves into a full fledged cosmic being.
Thor - King Thor moves with the remaining Asgardians to a seaside plot of land in Norway, with Valkyrie taking his place on the Avengers.
Loki - A last bit gambit to avoid death by Thanos turns him into Lady (or Kid) Loki.

Oh... Banner curing himself could also be very cool, and I would absolutely love love LOVE Scarlet Witch joining Dr. Strange's franchise. That Vision angle is dope too. For Cap, it'll be VERY interesting to see how they handle it.

It'd be really funny if Steve isn't even going to die and all of this debate is for naught.

I'd like for whoever is still alive to come back in some form for the end of phase events, even for minor missions while the others do the major legwork. Between Cap and Iron Man I'm expecting one death and one retirement. Thor I'd expect to become king more full time but hopefully a Thor 4 isn't impossible, as well as Widow and Hawkeye coming back in a Widow solo. Hulk I expect to survive but not sure where he'd show up next aside from being an emergency recruit for the next big event (maybe Skrulls!). Anyone else who's not an original and still alive should be able to appear as and when other characters films call on them (and not if they don't) until future event films.

Interesting. I think it's hard to really bench characters without accounting for them, because it's like "Where was Vision when the world was ending?"

But I do think that bringing them out of retirement for future event films is *Definitely* the way to go.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

They would have to do a lot of political story background to give a reason for the MCU America to need a "Captain America" if Captain Rogers falls or retires. They treated President Ellis branding Col Rhodes the Iron Patriot as a joke and should someone else just decide to don the red, white and blue or even have it bestowed upon him by the President like the Black Panther is how would that not be seen as worse than a joke. Stolen valor indeed.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I like the idea of a brand new Avengers after Thanos is kaput. But with this team:

Black Panther
Doctor Strange
Sam Wilson Captain America (probably the leader)
Captain Marvel (if Sam doesnt lead)
Ant-Man
Wasp

The rest:

Tony (dead or retired)
Steve (dead or retired)
Bucky (White Wolf in BP2)
Spider-Man (kicked off the avengers in Tony's absence)
Hulk (back in space for a Maestro story line)
Widow (busy with her own movie)
Hawkeye (busy with Widow's movie)


With Thor as a potential alternate to rejoin the fray

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Bucky is far more developed. But even there, I don't see him becoming a new Captain America. I honestly see Cap settling into a mentor role (someone has to stay to break in the newbies, and who better than Cap). Even if Cap dies, I don't see there being a new Captain America. Just because the comics did it doesn't mean the MCU will.

I would bet the house on Bucky becoming Cap. It's the end point of his arc. It's been teased in every movie he's been in. There isn't much reason to keep him around post Civil War otherwise - Cap already has two sidekicks in Widow and the Falcon.

 

[Kuwolski]

I would bet the house on Bucky becoming Cap. It's the end point of his arc. It's been teased in every movie he's been in. There isn't much reason to keep him around post Civil War otherwise - Cap already has two sidekicks in Widow and the Falcon.

Bingo.

 

[Flint Marko]

Yeah Bucky has held the shield in every single movie in a way that feels very deliberate. It's a foregone conclusion I think. Whether he helms a franchise or just appears in other heroes movies, I'm not sure. But I definitely think he'll be the next Cap after Steve bites the bullet.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Yeah Bucky has held the shield in every single movie in a way that feels very deliberate. It's a foregone conclusion I think. Whether he helms a franchise or just appears in other heroes movies, I'm not sure. But I definitely think he'll be the next Cap after Steve bites the bullet.

I agree but under how do I feel about it the notorious Hydra and Soviet assassin James Bucky Barnes to start wearing Captain Rogers uniform feels like stolen valour. Maybe someone at Disney is lurking and go to plan B.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I would bet the house on Bucky becoming Cap. It's the end point of his arc. It's been teased in every movie he's been in. There isn't much reason to keep him around post Civil War otherwise - Cap already has two sidekicks in Widow and the Falcon.

I don't agree. Bucky will seek redemption for what Hydra did to him, sure. But, I don't see that in the form of Captain America. At this point, Cap cannot die until he puts the uniform back on and gets his shield. Until that happens, Cap cannot die.

Further, yes the comics made other people wear the costume, but this is not comic books. This is a movie series in which the audience only ever knew 1 Captain America. Replacing him with Bucky will more than likely result in either lower BO returns, or Captain America becoming a supporting character, not a lead. The reason to keep Bucky around post-Civil War is easy, he is an interesting character with interesting stories to tell. I think there is plenty of opportunity for a Winter Soldier movie, or use him in future movies as a side character. I just don't see him becoming Captain America. Again, while Bucky has more development than Sam does as Falcon, he has still only ever been a side character. Captain America is a lead: one of Marvel's biggest characters, and the name means something. I don't think Bucky Cap would sell to the masses as well. Cap I think is better served being a mentor in other films, like Stark in Homecoming, and ultimately I firmly believe that is where they're going.

 

[Iceman]

As White Wolf the MCU version of Bucky could be reinvented into more of a hero character in his own right. I think he’ll either die at some point or have a future where his character keeps developing. Doesn’t really make sense for him to just retire and settle down with all he’s been through.

 

[Spider-Fan]

As White Wolf the MCU version of Bucky could be reinvented into more of a hero character in his own right. I think he’ll either die at some point or have a future where his character keeps developing. Doesn’t really make sense for him to just retire and settle down with all he’s been through.

I can see him either ending up in Black Widow's movie (maybe he has some intel that can help Natasha) or as an agent of Wakanda in the White Wolf persona. I am just not seeing the Captain America thing happening. I think that mantle should Cap die ultimately dies with him.

 

[warhorse78]

I would bet the house on Bucky becoming Cap. It's the end point of his arc. It's been teased in every movie he's been in. There isn't much reason to keep him around post Civil War otherwise - Cap already has two sidekicks in Widow and the Falcon.

I don't think Bucky will become Captain America, simply due to the fact that Sebastian Stan isn't a natural born American, and I would think that is a must when casting any Captain American part. With that said, I think it will be Sam.

And, is GOTG considered phase 1 or phase 2 heroes?

 

[Iceman]

I can see him either ending up in Black Widow's movie (maybe he has some intel that can help Natasha) or as an agent of Wakanda in the White Wolf persona. I am just not seeing the Captain America thing happening. I think that mantle should Cap die ultimately dies with him.

I would like both of those . A very small role in th Widow film and possibly a larger one in a BP sequel as an adopted ally of Wakanda.

 

[Iceman]

Interesting. I think it's hard to really bench characters without accounting for them, because it's like "Where was Vision when the world was ending?"

But I do think that bringing them out of retirement for future event films is *Definitely* the way to go.

Yeah, this is the way to keep a big universe going without a huge long term commitment from every single actor involved. From those who have had their time as an Avenger but aren't killed off just bring them back even for small roles in event films with the biggest threats when everyone would be expecting even retired members to contribute. And if scheduling works out also cameos or whatever in any other character solos where they fit.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I don't agree. Bucky will seek redemption for what Hydra did to him, sure. But, I don't see that in the form of Captain America. At this point, Cap cannot die until he puts the uniform back on and gets his shield. Until that happens, Cap cannot die.

Further, yes the comics made other people wear the costume, but this is not comic books. This is a movie series in which the audience only ever knew 1 Captain America. Replacing him with Bucky will more than likely result in either lower BO returns, or Captain America becoming a supporting character, not a lead. The reason to keep Bucky around post-Civil War is easy, he is an interesting character with interesting stories to tell. I think there is plenty of opportunity for a Winter Soldier movie, or use him in future movies as a side character. I just don't see him becoming Captain America. Again, while Bucky has more development than Sam does as Falcon, he has still only ever been a side character. Captain America is a lead: one of Marvel's biggest characters, and the name means something. I don't think Bucky Cap would sell to the masses as well. Cap I think is better served being a mentor in other films, like Stark in Homecoming, and ultimately I firmly believe that is where they're going.

You're basing your argument on Sebastian Stan continuing as the lead in the Captain America movies, but didn't say I think that will happen. Maybe it will. But what I'm saying is that Cap will die, and Bucky will take over in either Avengers: Infinity War or the fourth movie.