How do you feel about the Relaunch?

[Kurosawa]

Well, it's obvious that the COIE wasn't really thought out at all



They are going to repeat the same old mistakes, especially with their "selective continuity". Instead they should just have the balls to axe the old stuff completely, even if that means losing some books and characters (and not some lame backdoor ala "pocket universe") for the moment.

Yep, that's exactly what will happen. They never think these things through. How hard can it be to get some writers and artists in a room or on skype, and go through the list of characters, and come up with a basic plan for them? Instead they seem to take this caveman approach where they just randomly do stuff.

Interesting comments from retailers on the relaunch.

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/02/retailers-dc-reboot/

I started reading comics in the 1960s, and now DC has rebooted I don't know how many times. None of the characters I started with bear resemblance to the comics I was reading in the '60s, so to me this is just another reboot. I'm not going to presume to say whether or not they should do a reboot; each reboot stands or falls on its own merits, and if it's done done in the right way, and not in a way that disappoints fans, any reboot can be postive.

Will it bring in new readers? Probably not, because they may change the characters, but they're not going to change the basic format, which is serialized. To get casual readers, you have to be able to pick up an individual comic and read it, skip three or four issues, and then be able to read another one. That's how comics used to be, and you didn't have to read every issue. You could buy them at random and you didn't lose your place because there was no place. With the comic of the direct market, the fans took over, and everything had to be serialized. It kept comics alive, but it started to ghettoize it and shut out new readers. Now, you almost need a degree in X-Menology to read X-Men. And pretty soon, the average the comics reader will have a beard and be walking around with a cane.

__________________
I thought these hit the mark pretty well.

They really did. The second guys comments about the constant serialization is really spot-on. Stories should take as long to tell as they need, but the TPB style of storytelling results in a lot of unnecessary padding. They'll do in 6 issues what should take 2-3 to do. It's not quite to the level of the old DBZ where Goku and opponent X spend three episodes levitating and growling at each other, but it's still obviously padding and it keeps new readers away.

I also find it interesting that stuff like the Johnny DC line sells really well. That really confirms to me that a more Bronze Age approach-basically superhero comics that could be enjoyed by kids and adults-is probably the most commercially viable route instead of the grimdark adults only direction they've been in for years now. Harry Potter is basically a Bronze Age comic. The death toll in the HP series is way less than the typical DC event. Heck, they killed more characters in the first issue of Infinite Crisis than die in the entire HP series. Yet kids and adults love HP because it has characters you can care about and root for and it's a great page turner, hard to put down. The success of it and Twilight (which I don't care for but it still similarly appealing to adults and kids) show that print is not completely dead. Superhero comics should follow this route and make themselves more accessible and not gore and rape fests. I want that crap I'll watch Last House on the Left.

 

[Phatman]

Relaunches come, Relaunches go.

I don't get upset anymore.

It'll only be a year or two before we get the status quo again. And this umpmillionth #1 is in a quarter bin.


Truth is Superhero Comics haven't had new young readers in 17 years. $2.99 price tag keeps em' out of kids hands, and no returnablity keeps em out of retailers' hands. Comics are irrelevant to the kids of today, there's more entertainment value in a DVD movie or boxset featuring the same characters than in a 32-page comic.

Seriously, there's no incentive to collect comics anymore. Why pay for a comic or an e-comic when it's all going to be packaged in a TPB six months later anyway, or some big "event" will wipe it out?

Long-term I feel the market is moving towards graphic novels with self-contained stories. This way writers can tell the stories they want without continuity or serialization holding them back.

 

[Darthphere]

Yep, that's exactly what will happen. They never think these things through. How hard can it be to get some writers and artists in a room or on skype, and go through the list of characters, and come up with a basic plan for them? Instead they seem to take this caveman approach where they just randomly do stuff.

Actually they do that already. Except it's Geoff Johns in a room telling everybody what they're going to do.

 

[yenaled]

I also find it interesting that stuff like the Johnny DC line sells really well. That really confirms to me that a more Bronze Age approach-basically superhero comics that could be enjoyed by kids and adults-is probably the most commercially viable route instead of the grimdark adults only direction they've been in for years now. Harry Potter is basically a Bronze Age comic. The death toll in the HP series is way less than the typical DC event. Heck, they killed more characters in the first issue of Infinite Crisis than die in the entire HP series. Yet kids and adults love HP because it has characters you can care about and root for and it's a great page turner, hard to put down. The success of it and Twilight (which I don't care for but it still similarly appealing to adults and kids) show that print is not completely dead. Superhero comics should follow this route and make themselves more accessible and not gore and rape fests. I want that crap I'll watch Last House on the Left.

Well take Doctor Who for example, it's a kids show, it's on very early in evening over in Britain and it's aimed towards kids to watch with their parents. But it's not a childish show and this series so far has been downright nightmare fuelling. You can write for kids without being childish, America seems to have a lot of trouble with that idea in it's fiction. Neil Gaiman is a writer who does that perfectly.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

For sure the industry needs new readers. If the diehards that cant stop *****ing and whining about the diservice that is being done to them at the least kept their purchases steady this wouldnt need to be done. The truth is that digital comics are going to be changing the game in years to come in a very big way. Dont expect the prize to stay but to lower.

The days of the comic as a specialty item, and in some way the comic book store as its main distribution medium, are coming to an end. Were going to see a much lower cost product reaching wider audiences. The graphic novel and the combo-packed issues would make it much better for a reader to read an entire story with a sense of start and end so that helps too. They key is to be able to give a reader an actual story to read, which is difficult today because of continuity and the same event happening across multiple issues. Everything should be contained to its own world in a way.

One thing is for sure, they are getting lots of attention with this move.

 

[RAMORE]

Negative. It continues a trend of resureccting old characters because they don't have the balls to right new people and not make them suck! What is this I keep hearing about a superman lawsuit?

 

[HighFivingMF]

Was anybody resurrected for the relaunch?

 

[antsman41]

Was anybody resurrected for the relaunch?

Just my aneurism...

 

[RAMORE]

Who knows at this point its all speculation and rumor. Barbara back as batgirl Tim back as Robin etc. crazier things but we won't know for a bit.

 

[Gamingboy]

As I said in the other thread, I'm sort of wary but also will give it a shot. I mean, I'd prefer if Clark and Lois were married by this point, and if I were to ever get the chance to write a Superman comic I probably would have it like that if I had any say in the manner. Same thing with Barb Gordon: I like her as Oracle. But if the marriage were to be retconned away, or if Barbara Gordon became Batgirl again, I wouldn't automatically say "no" to the rebooted stories, so long as, well, the stories are good.

If a story is good, a story is good. If a story is bad, a story is bad. We'll wait and see.


(BTW, does anybody have any real proof beyond internet zeitgeist that Lois & Clark are going to get split up, that Babs will be Batgirl, etc. etc.?)

 

[Justkidding]

Interesting comments from retailers on the relaunch.

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/02/retailers-dc-reboot/

I thought these hit the mark pretty well.

I agree with the needing a degree in X-Men to read it. I don't want to read a comic where I feel I can't follow the story because I need to buy $1000 in backissues or trades from main titles and spin-offs.

I like the store owners ideas of Hellboy style mini series for DC books.

 

[Panthro]

At the moment I feel pretty indifferent. Let's see where they go with it first.

 

[gn6196]

it's not a big deal...

 

[bored]

Do we know what the full line-up of the Justice League is going to be?

 

[Motown Marvel]

so, like pre-crisis and post-crisis, do we now have pre-point and post-point?

 

[Kurosawa]

Well take Doctor Who for example, it's a kids show, it's on very early in evening over in Britain and it's aimed towards kids to watch with their parents. But it's not a childish show and this series so far has been downright nightmare fuelling. You can write for kids without being childish, America seems to have a lot of trouble with that idea in it's fiction. Neil Gaiman is a writer who does that perfectly.

I agree completely. You can do superheroes and sci-fi and fantasy and make it appeal to adults and kids.

so, like pre-crisis and post-crisis, do we now have pre-point and post-point?

Looks like that might be the case. From what I can surmise, basically everything will be wiped clean except what Geoff Johns is doing and to a lesser degree what Grant Morrison was doing (because they need him and can't afford to piss him off).

 

[KrypJonian]

As I said in the other thread, I'm sort of wary but also will give it a shot. I mean, I'd prefer if Clark and Lois were married by this point, and if I were to ever get the chance to write a Superman comic I probably would have it like that if I had any say in the manner. Same thing with Barb Gordon: I like her as Oracle. But if the marriage were to be retconned away, or if Barbara Gordon became Batgirl again, I wouldn't automatically say "no" to the rebooted stories, so long as, well, the stories are good.

If a story is good, a story is good. If a story is bad, a story is bad. We'll wait and see.


(BTW, does anybody have any real proof beyond internet zeitgeist that Lois & Clark are going to get split up, that Babs will be Batgirl, etc. etc.?)

I never thought of it that way...

Superman, well before and since Lois and Clark got married, has been mediocre to good at best...

And I'm not sure what the marriage has done for it... It has made some interesting stories, but I kinda wouldn't mind if they went back to the old style...

I watch the various animated series' and I really like the old Lois/Clark dynamic...

 

[obin_gam]

I will never get over the fact that they are retconning The Killing Joke

 

[taskmaster]

I will never get over the fact that they are retconning The Killing Joke

That hasn't been confirmed.

 

[HighFivingMF]

I will never get over the fact that they are retconning The Killing Joke

 

[Motown Marvel]

well isnt barbara, like all the heroes, gonna be younger and batgirl again? implying, killing joke never happened?

 

[HighFivingMF]

well isnt barbara, like all the heroes, gonna be younger and batgirl again? implying, killing joke never happened?

Ah, blanked on that part for a second. As far as I know they aren't retconning the parts I care about, so whatever. In my mind that guy on the hoppy horse at the carnival is still dead.

 

[The Morningstar]

Well they're retconning a pretty major development for Babs and Gordon.

 

[obin_gam]

Yeah, that was like THE one thing I wanted them to keep: "Barbara = crippled by Joker".

(other than that I would want Jason Todd going back to be dead as a doornail)

But I guess it was too much to ask for...

 

[taskmaster]

Yeah, that was like THE one thing I wanted them to keep: "Barbara = crippled by Joker".

(other than that I would want Jason Todd going back to be dead as a doornail)

But I guess it was too much to ask for...

You're basing this off of an article from Bleeding Cool(who have already been wrong about a lot of aspects of the changes). Sure, it could happen but there's absolutely no reason to start worrying until we have more information directly from DC.