How does Ock survive Spidey's punches?

[The Joker]

And this is the main flaw in your arguement.

No its not. As I'll proceed to explain....

This is neither Comics Spidey nor Comics Ock.

In terms of powers, yes it is. Except for the fact that Spidey's webbing comes from his body rather than a mechanical webshooter.

And even if they were, you're main example of Ock being able to deflect anything thrown at him (which is still silly, even from the picture you use, the resulting shrapnel would have still hit him) still isn't valid as you're applying the abilities of an experienced super-villian to the films first appearance Doctor.

Two things:

1. What picture did I use??
2. ASM #3, Doc Ock's first appearance. He deflected everything Spidey threw at him right until the end, when Spidey used a chemical to fuse two of Ock's tentacles together, thereby giving him the chance to web Ock's glasses and temporarily blind him, and land a punch on him knocking him out.

Octavius does not have to be an experienced super villain to know how to use those tentacles to deflect things, especially something as simple as a bag of coins.

In the movie he clearly does not have the speed or skill to delect any attack.

Really??

I recall him blocking Spidey's webbing several times.

During the experiment he does shield himself from the flying glass, but later in the bank, Spidey hits him with the bag of coins. And this is with 2 arms free and pointed in his general direction (relevent as they established that Ock can, in the movie, see through the arms.)
Now I agree for the amount of times he did take it to the face, he did have an amazing resistance to bruising, but the fact that he did get hit is no more a flaw in the film than the altered events in any What If? story.

I don't understand your point here. You're basically backing up what I'm saying.

There is NO explanation as to why Octavius is able to withstand this kind of pain. He is simply a man with tentacles fused to his spine. How does that endow you with resistance to the pain of multiple punches to the face without a mark to show for it??

He is fast enough to maneuver around a speeding train, dodge in coming bridges, deflect Spidey's webbing, catch Spidey when he leaping thru the air at super speed, but he can't deflect a bag of coins??

Your arguement of a what if story is silly. Because there is no explanation or even HINT of why Ock can take this sort of pain. Unlike there was explanations with any other changes made from the comics.

 

[Geko]

Perhaps I shouldn't have used What If?. Ultimate Spider-Man might be a better analogy. The point is, movieverse Spider-Man is in a different universe from the comics, therefore arguments based in the comics are not valid.

Oh and this is the picture I was talking about.

And looking at it again, he's deflecting Electro's blasts, where in the movie they conduct electrical current.

As for why he can take the punishment, I'm sticking to my previous idea. The doctors say they do not know the extent of the damage to Doc Ock's spine/ nervous system. If the fusion damaged the transmission of pain impulses to the brain, he'd be able to take a punch, even if it broke bones, and just keep going.
Combine that with the idea that Spidey pulls his punches, AND the fact that the movie would be boring if Ock never got hit and all is explained.

 

[The Joker]

Perhaps I shouldn't have used What If?. Ultimate Spider-Man might be a better analogy. The point is, movieverse Spider-Man is in a different universe from the comics, therefore arguments based in the comics are not valid.

But they are valid in this context, because the powers of these characters are no different from the comic book ones, or so we're told anyway.

Oh and this is the picture I was talking about.

And looking at it again, he's deflecting Electro's blasts, where in the movie they conduct electrical current.

Ah, yes that pic. I think I used it in the Ock Vs Goblin thread. He upgraded his tentacles in the comics. They were composed of some alloy that was resistant to electricity. I know he coated them in adamantium too at one point. It was established that Ock upgrades his tentacles at least once a year.

In the movie, his tentacles are resistant to heat and magnetism. Hence why he was able to manipulate the fusion ball.

As for why he can take the punishment, I'm sticking to my previous idea. The doctors say they do not know the extent of the damage to Doc Ock's spine/ nervous system. If the fusion damaged the transmission of pain impulses to the brain, he'd be able to take a punch, even if it broke bones, and just keep going.
Combine that with the idea that Spidey pulls his punches, AND the fact that the movie would be boring if Ock never got hit and all is explained.

As I said to you before, its a pretty decent theorey. I only wish it was more established in the movie.

But it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the Spidey Vs Ock battles.

 

[animexcel]

Spidey is pretending to hit Doc Ock and Ock is pretending to get hit. =)

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I always just thought that the arms kept Ock conscious when he was hit. A couple of times in the movie, after taking a Spidey punch, he looks knocked out or stunned, only to suddenly 'wake up' so to speak and react.

Thats my theory, but it may not be the best.

 

[Tangled Web]

Because Sam Raimi knows more about Spidey than Stan Lee.

Sarcasm.

The truth? He wanted to make it exciting for the kiddies!

ugh.

 

[Spidey-Sean]

What about the old theory that the arms act as gigantic shock-absorbers. Works for me. (They did save him from a long fall off of a clock tower).

 

[Vile]

Because Sam Raimi knows more about Spidey than Stan Lee.

Bingo.

Accept it, people.

Obviously the Octopus character of the comics was just stupid and silly. Raimi gave us a better representation of the character.

Really. He did.

Right?

Where's everyone going?

 

[Tangled Web]

Bingo.

Accept it, people.

Obviously the Octopus character of the comics was just stupid and silly. Raimi gave us a better representation of the character.

Really. He did.

Right?

Where's everyone going?

You do realize that my post was satire right?

 

[Silverstein]

In ASM#3, they mention super stregnth at least twice about Doc Ock. And they say he has power from radiation and atomic energy and stuff. There are lots of implications of super stregnth.

It can be argued that in the marvel Universe a quick burst of radiation grants you super stregnth to a certain degree. But characters like spider man that have some kind of third party transfer of the radiation get better/stronger powers from it. It makes sense.

Even so, Doc Ock's strength made sense. And nothing occured in the movie with his endurance and stregnth that should make you question the already disbanded belief.

You should question how he can keep up constant action for an hour more than how he can take coins to the face or punches from a guy holding back.

 

[Vile]

You do realize that my post was satire right?

Tee hee.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

In ASM#3, they mention super stregnth at least twice about Doc Ock. And they say he has power from radiation and atomic energy and stuff. There are lots of implications of super stregnth.

It can be argued that in the marvel Universe a quick burst of radiation grants you super stregnth to a certain degree. But characters like spider man that have some kind of third party transfer of the radiation get better/stronger powers from it. It makes sense.

Even so, Doc Ock's strength made sense. And nothing occured in the movie with his endurance and stregnth that should make you question the already disbanded belief.

You should question how he can keep up constant action for an hour more than how he can take coins to the face or punches from a guy holding back.

spiderman does have super strength, but dock ock survives spideys punches because they arent ass strong as other heroes like the hulk, but ock is also strong to with his tentacles, it could be adrenaline.

 

[Tangled Web]

Even so, after the first punch Spidey threw he'd realize that he needs a little juice and the next punch would nullify him.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Even so, after the first punch Spidey threw he'd realize that he needs a little juice and the next punch would nullify him.

exactly.

 

[Dcknight]

I think spidey in this scene just had his power come back so he doesn't have all of his force come back so he fights and when he had to stop the train all of his force come back! Ok i know it's a stupid idea but it could be!

 

[Arcturus]

Because if Spidey used all his strength, Ock's head would've exploded in a shower of crimson ala Mortal Kombat style, and the movie would be done and over with at that point.

 

[drmick]

I'm afraid that I have to agree with those that say that movie Spidey is significantly weaker than the comic version.

As far as I can remember there were only two inferences as to how strong Spidey was:

1. He wakes up the morning after the bite, and he has a a sixpack, big arms etc.

2. (A reverse one this), Norman Osborn's computer graphic shows his muscles getting bigger (despite no obvious change to Willem Defoe), and then we assume the two of them are easily matched.

If you're going to be really pedantic, you could get into equations and stuff and work out just how strong Spidey needs to be to sustain forward propulsion when webswinging. BUT..... then we would need to know the physical properties of the webfluid (if only Spidey didn't have organic shooters.....)

I am open to any other evidence in either movie that reveals just how strong he is. There is a fight with Hogan, the fight in the alley with MJ's muggers. But to me these only hint at a strength level somewhere around an Olympic power lifter.

Thus, I conclude, that Spidey is only slightly stronger (if at all) than a very strong normal human.


(Incidentally, there is a line in the 90s cartoon Alien Costume saga, where Spidey lifts a van, and says something along the lines of "Woo hoo! Before, I struggled to lift a Volkswagen." This too hints at a strength much weaker than his comic counterpart).

(Incidentally x2, I always felt that comic Spidey is TOO strong. For the purposes of normal muggers and the occasional Spidey supervillian a weaker strength level is all that is required. But I think that whoever first decided his power level probably wanted him to be able to mix it up with the Thing, Vision, even at a push the Hulk, and so, made him that strong. Comic Spidey has rarely been in a situation where he needs to be so strong that he can flick over a train with his finger).

I'm not gonna comment on Doc Ock lest I incur a certain poster's wrath

 

[Venomfan]

man u need to watch the movies again...
in the first one he keeps that trolly thing with all the kids in it from falling
and in the second one he showed even more strength, like when he stopped the train, or when hes holding up the wall at the end while its being sucked towards the fusion thingy, and then he effortlessly chucks it away after the fusion thingy has stopped.

 

[drmick]

man u need to watch the movies again...
in the first one he keeps that trolly thing with all the kids in it from falling
and in the second one he showed even more strength, like when he stopped the train, or when hes holding up the wall at the end while its being sucked towards the fusion thingy, and then he effortlessly chucks it away after the fusion thingy has stopped.

Oops.

Well the wall thing didn't look too heavy. But I suppose even to attempt to stop the train with his legs, implies some significant strength (perhaps even stronger tahn the comics?).

 

[Silverstein]

How would that be stronger than the comics? Spidey DOES seem weaker in other media than in comics. Even in the games he has never been at full stregnth.

Comic spidey would have easily stopped that train. Either with his legs or by punching a hole in the rail and then, when the train hit the street, just standing there and holding it back.

 

[Buttman]

He also took a flying cardoor to the face.

Into another car.

 

[Sentinel X]

Spider-man can lift over 10 tons, I don't think any amount of adrenaline will save you from that.



I believe this is the answer you're looking for.

10 tons!!! Whoa...this means Spidey can carry two of me!!

 

[Cyclops]

How does Ock survive? Simple. Spider-Man holds back.

 

[Sentinel X]

^^^No that is just stupid, why would he be holding back?

i think the best theory is that since Spidey was having problems with his powers(since he didnt want to be Spider-man), his powers weren't in full effect...thus he wasn't as strong and Ock could withstand his punches....this also explains how Spidey beat Ock so quickly in the final fight(after fully embracing his responsibility as spider-man)

 

[The Joker]

^^^No that is just stupid, why would he be holding back?

Because he doesn't want to kill Ock.

The reason I believe Ock is able to sustain the blows he recieves off Spider-Man is due to the sentient arms being fused to his nervous system. They keep him from losing consciousness.

Notice how quickly he woke up after the hospital massacre. Surely the sedation the doctors gave him would have lasted MUCH longer than that in order to carry out the operation. But as soon as the doctors were slain, Octavius awoke.

i think the best theory is that since Spidey was having problems with his powers(since he didnt want to be Spider-man), his powers weren't in full effect...thus he wasn't as strong and Ock could withstand his punches

That makes no sense at all. His powers were well and truly back before he confronted Ock on the clock tower. Did you see him stop a speeding train in that sequence??

this also explains how Spidey beat Ock so quickly in the final fight(after fully embracing his responsibility as spider-man)

He didn't defeat Ock with his strength. Ock got electrocuted. Nothing to do with Spider-Man's punches. And then Spidey appealed to Octavius to do the right thing, even with his throat in the grip of one of Ock's tentacles.