How does Ock survive Spidey's punches?

[Sentinel X]

Because he doesn't want to kill Ock.

The reason I believe Ock is able to sustain the blows he recieves off Spider-Man is due to the sentient arms being fused to his nervous system. They keep him from losing consciousness.

Notice how quickly he woke up after the hospital massacre. Surely the sedation the doctors gave him would have lasted MUCH longer than that in order to carry out the operation. But as soon as the doctors were slain, Octavius awoke.

Punching him wouldnt kill him unless he did it over and over again..it would just knock him unconscious. Sure his arms may be fused to his nervous system but Id say its working with the central nervous system rather than the peripheral nervous system.
In the Hospital killings, the reason he awoke maybe because usually in surgery doctors give multiple sadatives to the patient during the course of the operation.

That makes no sense at all. His powers were well and truly back before he confronted Ock on the clock tower. Did you see him stop a speeding train in that sequence??

pssh...do you honestly think just cause he says to himself that he is Spider-man, that he will get all his powers to the full extent back?
And yes I saw the train sequence but I also saw the part were it took Spidey FOREVER to stop it and when he finally did he fainted.

He didn't defeat Ock with his strength. Ock got electrocuted. Nothing to do with Spider-Man's punches. And then Spidey appealed to Octavius to do the right thing, even with his throat in the grip of one of Ock's tentacles.

psshh again...
Spidey knocked him through the deck with ease, and if it wasnt for stupid MJ gravitating toward the artificial star Spidey wouldve knocked him cold with ease.

 

[The Joker]

Punching him wouldnt kill him unless he did it over and over again..

And he did punch him over and over again. But he pulled his punches, like Cyclops said. In every fight scene, Ock got multiple hits to face. In fact on the train, he also got a couple of kicks to the face too.

it would just knock him unconscious.

If Spidey put his full strength into it, it would kill him. Octavius is still just a normal man.

Sure his arms may be fused to his nervous system but Id say its working with the central nervous system rather than the peripheral nervous system.

Thats your theorey. But you haven't really offered anything substantial to back it up.

In the Hospital killings, the reason he awoke maybe because usually in surgery doctors give multiple sadatives to the patient during the course of the operation.

Yes, he was on an IV drip. Which steadily pumps sedative into the patient. And even if it had to be administered at timed intervals by a doctor, the one he got at the beginning of the operation has got to be the shortest lasting sedative in history. He was fully awake like two minutes later.

pssh...do you honestly think just cause he says to himself that he is Spider-man, that he will get all his powers to the full extent back?

Obviously no, since he fell flat on his ass when he tried to jump a rooftop, despite trying to tell himself "I'm back. I'm back!!".

He regained his power when Ock took MJ in the cafe. You did notice him web swinging thru the city towards the clock tower yes??

He kind of needs his spider powers to do that

And yes I saw the train sequence but I also saw the part were it took Spidey FOREVER to stop it and when he finally did he fainted.

So what??

psshh again...
Spidey knocked him through the deck with ease

Spidey surprised him. Ock was not expecting him to come back so quickly after he tossed him thru the roof.

and if it wasnt for stupid MJ gravitating toward the artificial star Spidey wouldve knocked him cold with ease.

If diving into him at full speed, knocking him thru the floor into the water, before punching his face several times didn't knock him out, not to mention getting electrocuted, then that hardly supports your theorey that Spidey would have "knocked him cold with ease".

 

[Tangled Web]

Of course Spidey holds back to keep from killing him, but Spidey can still hit him hard enough to knock him out and keep from killing him. Why would Spider-Man toy with Ock in such a way so that he's still a threat?

Stop making excuses for Raimi.

 

[The Joker]

Of course Spidey holds back to keep from killing him, but Spidey can still hit him hard enough to knock him out and keep from killing him. Why would Spider-Man toy with Ock in such a way so that he's still a threat?

That's what I'm saying, the ONLY explanation is that the arms kept him from losing consciousness by being fused to nervous system and being sentient.

I already said Ock is still just a man, that's why Spidey pulls his punches. If he uses full strength he'd take his head off most likely.

Stop making excuses for Raimi.

Oh believe me, I am the LAST person in the world to defend Raimi's silly changes.

 

[Sentinel X]

And he did punch him over and over again. But he pulled his punches, like Cyclops said. In every fight scene, Ock got multiple hits to face. In fact on the train, he also got a couple of kicks to the face too



If Spidey put his full strength into it, it would kill him. Octavius is still just a normal man.

Yeah I know but again Ive said that Spidey doesnt have his full strength...so.....

Thats your theorey. But you haven't really offered anything substantial to back it up.

CNS is controls brain and spinal cord, the AI in the arms and his CNS were working in correlation but his PNS, therefore Ock isn't able to substain Spidey's blows due to "his arms being fused to his nervous system"

Yes, he was on an IV drip. Which steadily pumps sedative into the patient. And even if it had to be administered at timed intervals by a doctor, the one he got at the beginning of the operation has got to be the shortest lasting sedative in history. He was fully awake like two minutes later.

What??...okay I dont know about you but the Spider-man 2 I saw doesn't show when he was given the IV, so how would you know it was given to him 2 minute prior?

Obviously no, since he fell flat on his ass when he tried to jump a rooftop, despite trying to tell himself "I'm back. I'm back!!".

He regained his power when Ock took MJ in the cafe. You did notice him web swinging thru the city towards the clock tower yes??

He kind of needs his spider powers to do that

Oh... think youre confused on what I was saying. What Im saying is yes, Spidey had his powers back but they weren't as strong. For example, he had his super strength but it wasn't as powerful as before. Maybe that explains why his Spidey sense began when the car was practically an inch before slamming into the plate-glass window...or why his Spidey-sense didnt go off when Dr.Ock knocked him off the train and down to the streets.

So what??

So...hes not as strong as he usually is.

Spidey surprised him. Ock was not expecting him to come back so quickly after he tossed him thru the roof.

High speed moving tenticles....check
Increased CNS due to tenticles...check
Ability for each tenticle to actually "see" through a neural link...check

....sure,he was surprised

If diving into him at full speed, knocking him thru the floor into the water, before punching his face several times didn't knock him out, not to mention getting electrocuted, then that hardly supports your theorey that Spidey would have "knocked him cold with ease".

That is true I dont know why I said that ...mistake on my part.
What I meant was Spidey became stronger, I dont think itd be as easy as I said but still Im pretty sure if he didnt have MJ to worry about it be easier for him to take down Ock...and also you should know that Spidey was the one who caused Ocks electrocution (Peter should know full well this could kill him, so if he was truly "holding" back , how do you explain this?)

 

[The Joker]

Yeah I know but again Ive said that Spidey doesnt have his full strength...so.....

Yes, he did have his full strength.

I don't know where you're getting this half strength, partial strength stuff from. What did you do, measure the width of his muscles on screen or something??

CNS is controls brain and spinal cord, the AI in the arms and his CNS were working in correlation but his PNS, therefore Ock isn't able to substain Spidey's blows due to "his arms being fused to his nervous system"

But that's just it, Ock was able to sustain Spidey's blows, it's just that Spidey was pulling his punches.

We all saw it on screen. Spidey was hitting Ock, but to no avail. Ock didn't even get so much as a bruise, black eye, not a speck of blood.....nothing.

And if your only counter argument is going to be he only had half his powers back or whatever, then please save it. It's a baseless theorey.

What??...okay I dont know about you but the Spider-man 2 I saw doesn't show when he was given the IV, so how would you know it was given to him 2 minute prior?

They'd hardly of put him under several hours before the operation. And considering he was getting an operation on his spinal chord, the sedative would have to be mighty damn strong.

Oh... think youre confused on what I was saying. What Im saying is yes, Spidey had his powers back but they weren't as strong. For example, he had his super strength but it wasn't as powerful as before. Maybe that explains why his Spidey sense began when the car was practically an inch before slamming into the plate-glass window...or why his Spidey-sense didnt go off when Dr.Ock knocked him off the train and down to the streets.

Don't you get it??

His powers were never actually gone. That's the whole point of it. He didn't really lose them. It was his own subconscious mind shutting down his powers because he really, really didn't want to be Spider-Man anymore because of all the crap it was causing in his life, and he didn't want the guilt of having these powers but not using them.

Exact same thing from ASM Annual #1. It's what they based the story off. His powers were never gone, he just made himself believe they were gone.

Notice how they magically came back when MJ was kidnapped?? When someone he cared for was put in danger, his powers were there.

So...hes not as strong as he usually is.

Yes he was.

Who do you think he is, the Hulk?? When have you ever seen Spider-Man display the kind of strength where he can stop something like a speeding train with ease and efficency??

Please, cite me one example.

High speed moving tenticles....check

What's that got to do with a surprise attack?? He's been surprised attacked in the comics before too. Unlike Spidey, Ock doesn't have a sense of impending danger.

Increased CNS due to tenticles...check

See above answer.

Ability for each tenticle to actually "see" through a neural link...check

So what??

Do you think they were all watching the ceiling waiting for Spidey to come back??

....sure,he was surprised

That's right, he was.

What I meant was Spidey became stronger

No he wasn't.

He had the exact same strength he had the second MJ was taken.

Geez, will you drop this baseless theorey, because you've offered nothing to back it.

I dont think itd be as easy as I said but still Im pretty sure if he didnt have MJ to worry about it be easier for him to take down Ock.

Well, he did a bang up job of taking him down on their previous two fights didn't he

and also you should know that Spidey was the one who caused Ocks electrocution (Peter should know full well this could kill him, so if he was truly "holding" back , how do you explain this?)

Obviously Spidey knew it wouldn't kill him, since there wasn't enough juice running thru it to kill a man.

And if it had been possible, what were his alternatives?? Let Ock stab him to death, and have the reactor destroy the city??

 

[matthooper]

Peter saw Ock as a tragic villian who needed his help. He didn't want to kill him. This was a man who just days earlier invited him into his home and family, drank tea and talked about life. Peter doesn't want him dead, he wants to help him, so of course he is pulling his punches.

 

[Flint Marko]

Yes, he did have his full strength.

I don't know where you're getting this half strength, partial strength stuff from. What did you do, measure the width of his muscles on screen or something??



But that's just it, Ock was able to sustain Spidey's blows, it's just that Spidey was pulling his punches.

We all saw it on screen. Spidey was hitting Ock, but to no avail. Ock didn't even get so much as a bruise, black eye, not a speck of blood.....nothing.

And if your only counter argument is going to be he only had half his powers back or whatever, then please save it. It's a baseless theorey.



They'd hardly of put him under several hours before the operation. And considering he was getting an operation on his spinal chord, the sedative would have to be mighty damn strong.



Don't you get it??

His powers were never actually gone. That's the whole point of it. He didn't really lose them. It was his own subconscious mind shutting down his powers because he really, really didn't want to be Spider-Man anymore because of all the crap it was causing in his life, and he didn't want the guilt of having these powers but not using them.

Exact same thing from ASM Annual #1. It's what they based the story off. His powers were never gone, he just made himself believe they were gone.

Notice how they magically came back when MJ was kidnapped?? When someone he cared for was put in danger, his powers were there.



Yes he was.

Who do you think he is, the Hulk?? When have you ever seen Spider-Man display the kind of strength where he can stop something like a speeding train with ease and efficency??

Please, cite me one example.



What's that got to do with a surprise attack?? He's been surprised attacked in the comics before too. Unlike Spidey, Ock doesn't have a sense of impending danger.



See above answer.



So what??

Do you think they were all watching the ceiling waiting for Spidey to come back??



That's right, he was.



No he wasn't.

He had the exact same strength he had the second MJ was taken.

Geez, will you drop this baseless theorey, because you've offered nothing to back it.



Well, he did a bang up job of taking him down on their previous two fights didn't he



Obviously Spidey knew it wouldn't kill him, since there wasn't enough juice running thru it to kill a man.

And if it had been possible, what were his alternatives?? Let Ock stab him to death, and have the reactor destroy the city??

Hey, just a question, do you go by the name of "the penguin" on the sony official boards?
Cause you sound a lot like him (don't worry, that's a good thing). If you are, then I'm Ludachris from those boards.
Anyway, I'm gonna go with the guy that said "answer: it's just a movie". But in all seriousness, i believe spider-man was pulling his punches as not to hurt Ock. After all, we see him hold up a whole freakin' wall at the end of the movie.

 

[The Joker]

Peter saw Ock as a tragic villian who needed his help. He didn't want to kill him. This was a man who just days earlier invited him into his home and family, drank tea and talked about life. Peter doesn't want him dead, he wants to help him, so of course he is pulling his punches.

Bingo

And even if it was a total stranger, Peter would still not kill him.

Hey, just a question, do you go by the name of "the penguin" on the sony official boards?

The Penguin? No, that's not me. Any usernames I have on message boards are Doc Ock themed names.

I'm Doc Ock on the KMC boards, if you happen to post there too. But I don't post on the Sony boards, as there's very limited forums there.

 

[Sentinel X]

Yes, he did have his full strength.

I don't know where you're getting this half strength, partial strength stuff from. What did you do, measure the width of his muscles on screen or something??



But that's just it, Ock was able to sustain Spidey's blows, it's just that Spidey was pulling his punches.

We all saw it on screen. Spidey was hitting Ock, but to no avail. Ock didn't even get so much as a bruise, black eye, not a speck of blood.....nothing.

And if your only counter argument is going to be he only had half his powers back or whatever, then please save it. It's a baseless theorey.



They'd hardly of put him under several hours before the operation. And considering he was getting an operation on his spinal chord, the sedative would have to be mighty damn strong.



Don't you get it??

His powers were never actually gone. That's the whole point of it. He didn't really lose them. It was his own subconscious mind shutting down his powers because he really, really didn't want to be Spider-Man anymore because of all the crap it was causing in his life, and he didn't want the guilt of having these powers but not using them.

Exact same thing from ASM Annual #1. It's what they based the story off. His powers were never gone, he just made himself believe they were gone.

Notice how they magically came back when MJ was kidnapped?? When someone he cared for was put in danger, his powers were there.



Yes he was.

Who do you think he is, the Hulk?? When have you ever seen Spider-Man display the kind of strength where he can stop something like a speeding train with ease and efficency??

Please, cite me one example.



What's that got to do with a surprise attack?? He's been surprised attacked in the comics before too. Unlike Spidey, Ock doesn't have a sense of impending danger.



See above answer.



So what??

Do you think they were all watching the ceiling waiting for Spidey to come back??



That's right, he was.



No he wasn't.

He had the exact same strength he had the second MJ was taken.

Geez, will you drop this baseless theorey, because you've offered nothing to back it.



Well, he did a bang up job of taking him down on their previous two fights didn't he



Obviously Spidey knew it wouldn't kill him, since there wasn't enough juice running thru it to kill a man.

And if it had been possible, what were his alternatives?? Let Ock stab him to death, and have the reactor destroy the city??

I seriously dont care, I just think my theory makes more sense...why would Spidey cause Ocks electrocution if it could kill him??...Of course it had enough "juice"...its a freakin fusion machine plug!...Try taking a bath with that thing and see if you come out alive.
The blood/bruise thing makes no sense to me because Spidey didnt have any blood or bruises either.
Either way Im not going to keep on debating about this cause we're just going in circles and its pointless cause some of the points we have might have been movie mistakes or just plain ignorance

 

[Vile]

I think you guys are debating ****ty writing and directing.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Look guys I'll give you the simple answer, if Spidey was to never hit Ock then the fight scenes would have being boring as hell, this is just an example of something that works on the comic page but had to be changed for the movie screen. Do you think the average movie-goer would sit through 2 hours of Spidey tangling with Doc Ocks arms.

 

[Sentinel X]

I just like to debate with people...but this topic is stupid

 

[Donald Thomas]

Nonsense.

If that was the case then why bother hitting him at all if not to rend him unconscious?? Spidey was hitting Ock pretty damn hard, especially in the final battle when they fell into the water.

Octavius was a dangerous threat. Spidey had to stop him. There would be no point in hitting him if it was not meant to stop him.



In the hospital massacre, they made it a point to show Ock was still unconscious while the arms were going crazy. So that knocks that theorey out the window.

Secondly, when he was electrocuted, the arms were still conked out when Peter started talking to him, Octavius was conscious. When they were revived again, Ock lunged one at Spidey's throat.

Its clear the arms can operate whether Ock is conscious or not. They made that very clear.

Its a flaw in the movie. Octavius should never have taken that many punches, and Spidey should not have been able to get that close to Ock in the first place.

Their fight scenes were incredible. Best ever. But that was a flaw in them. Plain and simple.

Aloha,
For the record-the Peter David novel of Spidey 2 establishes that the tentacles are sentient. In the comics the arms are so formidable that Spidey rarely can get to Ock. Once he does-it's lights OUT!Great movie but flawed presentation of Doc Ocks powers.
Spidey rules, Hollywood fools

 

[Cyclops]

^^^No that is just stupid, why would he be holding back?

Are you kidding me? Tell me you're kidding. Dear God.

Spider-Man holds back so he doesn't PUNCH DR. OCTOPUS'S HEAD OFF.

Unlike Green Goblin who wears both armor and has a fairly high degree of superhuman strength, Dr. Octopus in body is a normal man. He was normal endurance, normal strength, and normal durability.

If Spider-Man didn't hold back, Dr. Octopus's head would have been a red, pulpy mess.

You got a brain in your head, use it.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Peter saw Ock as a tragic villian who needed his help. He didn't want to kill him. This was a man who just days earlier invited him into his home and family, drank tea and talked about life. Peter doesn't want him dead, he wants to help him, so of course he is pulling his punches.

i agree with you 110%, ock liked peter, peter did not want to hert octavious, peter knew there was still the old octavious still inside.

 

[Vile]

Lame.

It's quite obvious this fact never ran through Raimi's mind.

Cling to hope, justify it however you want.

 

[Maboroshi]

All these arguements about Spidey holding back are pointless.

If you use another example from the movie, it is obvious that Ock is just randomly given amazing stamina powers:
At some point he is hit by a large moneybag and slammed into a car so hard that he just wrecks the hell out of the car. Between the moneybag that hit him and his tentacles was just him. Between the two, he should have been totally crushed. His chest would have totally just caved in, but it didnt. That is an obvious demonstration that Raimi just decided that it would be more exciting if Ock were this way. The end, no more point in wondering if spidey was holding back. He didnt need to.

Now I guess he could have put a tentacle infront of himself for the moneybag to hit, keeping him safe inside of a tentacle cage, but I'm pretty sure that didnt happen if I remember correctly.

 

[Tangled Web]

Are you kidding me? Tell me you're kidding. Dear God.

Spider-Man holds back so he doesn't PUNCH DR. OCTOPUS'S HEAD OFF.

Unlike Green Goblin who wears both armor and has a fairly high degree of superhuman strength, Dr. Octopus in body is a normal man. He was normal endurance, normal strength, and normal durability.

If Spider-Man didn't hold back, Dr. Octopus's head would have been a red, pulpy mess.

You got a brain in your head, use it.

Well, of course SPidey is gonna hold back. You make it seem as if Spidey can only either kill Ock or not hurt him at all. Spidey can still hit him hard enough to knock himout without killing him. We've seen it in the books.

 

[Cyclops]

I wasn't the one suggesting that, Sentinel X was.

 

[The Joker]

Aloha,
For the record-the Peter David novel of Spidey 2 establishes that the tentacles are sentient.

The movie also established that too

In the comics the arms are so formidable that Spidey rarely can get to Ock. Once he does-it's lights OUT!Great movie but flawed presentation of Doc Ocks powers.

A flawed representation of alot of things Donald, but how right you are on your points you made.

 

[El Payaso]

It's not like Raimi Spider-man movies aren't really flawed.

Just for the record I loved Spiderman 2 but still...

 

[Iceburgeruk]

Perhaps....there is a corelation between the fact that he takes few hits in the earlier scenes and then is visibly battered during the final bits in the water after his tentacles have been knocked out.

Perhaps the tentacles keep him from recieving damage. He can`t dodge the hits in various scenes like the train sequence but maybe the tentacles detect spidey`s attacks (even though he himself is caught unawares) and thereby they attempt to save him by pulingl octavius back slighty or shift his balance/center of gravity so that he only recieves glancing blows from the strikes.

Thereby he comes away unscaved as spideys strongest punches never connect and simply lightly brush him (spidey`s lightly brushing you with a punch of course is like getting punched normally).

 

[Slimy Wall Crawler]

Look guys we have to conclude that movie Doc Ock recieved superhuman strength and endurance because of his tentacles. Not Green Goblin strength, but he definately got something.

He would have to have something extra to walk around with those heavy tentacles fused to his spine. A normal person could not withstand that.

This rationale works for me, and I just roll with that.

 

[Vile]

I prefer the "lets ignore Spidey's superstrength during the battle' rationale that Raimi used instead.

Which, in a way, kinda hurt the fight scenes - Spidey can lift half a damn demolished wall but can't knock out a middle aged scientist. =)