How I Met Your Mother - Part 5

[stillanerd]

Well, having the seen the finale, having taken the time to digest it, and reading various reactions to it, I think I know why so many people were so upset with how HIMYM ended the way it did, especially after reading this article. Basically, the finale is a classic example of "what the writers want" going against "what the narrative demands."

Given that the scene with Ted's kids was filmed just before HIMYM's second season and that, based on how the last scene of finale was an deliberate echo of Ted's "Big Romantic Gesture" to Robin from the pilot episode, Bays and Thomas obviously conceived the series as an on-again, off again romance between Ted and Robin, that these were two people who were meant to be together, but who kept getting together at the wrong moments of their lives. Given that Ted's kids encouraged their dad to ask out their "Aunt Robin," Ted getting the blue French horn, and the triumphant, upbeat music at the end, it's clear we, as an audience, were meant to see this as a happy ending for Ted and Robin, that we were supposed to be happy that, after being widowed and divorced respectively, Ted and Robin would finally get together like they were always supposed to.

Unfortunately, the audience realized a long time ago something that the creators didn't: that what the creators of HIMYM wanted was no longer what the narrative demanded.

Time and time again, the audience saw that, for as much as Ted and Robin loved each other and wanted to be together, they were not right for each other, and that they were better off being friends than being in a relationship with each other. Furthermore, the audience saw that Ted's refusal to let Robin go, and his clinging on to the hope that she would come back to him because he believed they were "destined to be together," was unhealthy for them both. His inability to move on from Robin kept sabotaging his other relationships with other women, making him feel more depressed and alone.

So it was no coincidence that when Ted was finally able to realize that if he truly loved Robin and wanted her to be happy that he had to let her go and move on with his life that he ends up meeting someone better for him, someone who was more compatible, someone who could truly love him for being him, and, it just so happens, also had to learn to let go of a past love and move on with her life.

So for the audience, they not only didn't expect Ted and Robin to get back together, they no longer wanted them to because the narrative made it clear how wrong that would be for both of them. For the audience and what the narrative demanded, the real ending to HIMYM was not a widowed Ted and a divorced Robin getting back together--it was Ted and Tracy first meeting each other at the train station. But because the creators, for whatever reason, believed that the story of HIMYM was about the love story of Ted and Robin, and that the show had to end way they originally conceived it, they stubbornly stuck to that ending, even though that ending, based on how the characters and story developed, no longer made sense or was appropriate for those characters and the story.

Maybe Bays and Thomas should've realized the central theme of HIMYM when it came to writing and developing the series: That getting what you want isn't the same as getting what you need.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Yeah, I don't take issue with someone not liking the episode. Saying it ruined the series as a whole is where I find it to be a bit over-dramatic and excessive.

I agree with that. When I saw people saying it ruined the series, that was a little ridiculous. I wasn't a fan of this finale, but it didn't even ruin this season for me. I still really like this season, a lot actually. Heck, I can just pretend the parts I didn't like the finale didn't happen. Or just imagine the way it would have been had it been developed better.

 

[dark_b]

3 days later and i still can not find words to describe just how bad the finale was.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Stillanerd, I agree with a good portion of what you said. I think the idea of the finale could have worked, had the finale been drawn out over a season and given us episodes of showing how Ted and Robin change over the years. The biggest thing I also needed to see to be okay with Ted and Robin being together was that I see a Ted who A.) Stops dropping anything and everything for Robin at every time. And a Robin who B.) Was willing to be there for Ted.

Robin never made the sacrifices for Ted that Ted made for Robin, and Ted conversely never really accepted that Robin didn't want the same things he did. I don't mind the idea of an older Ted and Robin eventually getting together, but I need to see their evolution as characters for it to feel real, which was my main problem with the finale.

 

[BatLobster]

Well, having the seen the finale, having taken the time to digest it, and reading various reactions to it, I think I know why so many people were so upset with how HIMYM ended the way it did, especially after reading this article. Basically, the finale is a classic example of "what the writers want" going against "what the narrative demands."

Given that the scene with Ted's kids was filmed just before HIMYM's second season and that, based on how the last scene of finale was an deliberate echo of Ted's "Big Romantic Gesture" to Robin from the pilot episode, Bays and Thomas obviously conceived the series as an on-again, off again romance between Ted and Robin, that these were two people who were meant to be together, but who kept getting together at the wrong moments of their lives. Given that Ted's kids encouraged their dad to ask out their "Aunt Robin," Ted getting the blue French horn, and the triumphant, upbeat music at the end, it's clear we, as an audience, were meant to see this as a happy ending for Ted and Robin, that we were supposed to be happy that, after being widowed and divorced respectively, Ted and Robin would finally get together like they were always supposed to.

Unfortunately, the audience realized a long time ago something that the creators didn't: that what the creators of HIMYM wanted was no longer what the narrative demanded.

Time and time again, the audience saw that, for as much as Ted and Robin loved each other and wanted to be together, they were not right for each other, and that they were better off being friends than being in a relationship with each other. Furthermore, the audience saw that Ted's refusal to let Robin go, and his clinging on to the hope that she would come back to him because he believed they were "destined to be together," was unhealthy for them both. His inability to move on from Robin kept sabotaging his other relationships with other women, making him feel more depressed and alone.

So it was no coincidence that when Ted was finally able to realize that if he truly loved Robin and wanted her to be happy that he had to let her go and move on with his life that he ends up meeting someone better for him, someone who was more compatible, someone who could truly love him for being him, and, it just so happens, also had to learn to let go of a past love and move on with her life.

So for the audience, they not only didn't expect Ted and Robin to get back together, they no longer wanted them to because the narrative made it clear how wrong that would be for both of them. For the audience and what the narrative demanded, the real ending to HIMYM was not a widowed Ted and a divorced Robin getting back together--it was Ted and Tracy first meeting each other at the train station. But because the creators, for whatever reason, believed that the story of HIMYM was about the love story of Ted and Robin, and that the show had to end way they originally conceived it, they stubbornly stuck to that ending, even though that ending, based on how the characters and story developed, no longer made sense or was appropriate for those characters and the story.

Maybe Bays and Thomas should've realized the central theme of HIMYM when it came to writing and developing the series: That getting what you want isn't the same as getting what you need.

It still begs the question though...if the moral of the story should've been that the kids' Aunt Robin was simply something Ted had to move past in order to finally be able to meet their mother....then what is the point of telling that story to their kids?? Why even bother telling them about this woman that he spent years pining for and struggling to move past? What kind of a way to honor their mother's memory is that? Or alternatively, if the ending was changed so that Tracy lived...it makes it even WEIRDER that he's telling them this story, and without Tracy there too.

The series as a whole only truly makes sense is in the context that Ted is reminiscing about his youth and gently testing the waters with his children by revealing this bigger history with Robin that they never knew about. It's ultimately a story about a man trying to move past a devastating lost, which honestly makes the series as a whole richer IMO.

The alternative is Ted is just reminiscing about the good ol' times and former love of his life in front of his kids for no apparent reason. If Tracy were alive, that wouldn't be a good sign for their marriage.

It's not the they should've changed the ending, it's simply that the show went on a little too long, like many sitcoms tend to do. But this was a high concept sitcom from Day 1, where the ending ultimately informed a LOT of what happened along the way.

I don't buy the "show outgrew the ending" argument at all. The ending was in the show's DNA from the start, and it's sprinkled throughout the whole series.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

can we get a marvel one shot with the mom please?

 

[souvlaki]

Sorry, I just don't agree. I think each work is different, and this show had conditioned me to roll with the jumpy way it played with time from the very start. I was relieved when Barney and Robin didn't work out. The sudden way they announced the divorce (after hiding it from their friends) reminded me of the sudden way Ted and Robin broke up at the end of Season 2, when things had been going so well.

To me, a whole season (or even a whole episode) of Ted going through the grieving process is NOT good writing/execution because it makes NO SENSE why he'd want to be reliving that and putting his kids through it again. It would be too much of a violation of the illusion of this whole show being a story he told to his kids to me, and that would've taken me out of the story. It was always going to be focusing on the positive when it came to Tracy, and appreciating the time he had with her all the more because it was so short and precious.

Maybe I interpreted it wrong but I was under the impression that any scene taking place after Ted met Tracy was not part of the story he was telling the kids. None of the future scenes had a narration outside the last 5 minutes of the finale. I just rewatched the finale and even though I think it could have been done better, I'm not going to lie, I got choked up and liked it more knowing what was coming. But yes, I agree with the assessment that this season would have been better if they spaced out everything over the entire season. Stop the wedding story two episodes in, but save the train scene for the last episode. Devote a good three or four episodes to Tracy's death, Ted mourning . Then show Robin and Ted becoming close friends and show how much both of them have grown as people as they grew older so people actually root for the ending.

 

[BatLobster]

You could have a point there, I'd have to re-watch those flash forwards and pay close attention to how they were positioned.

Still though, it's one thing to break out of the story for momentary flash forwards sprinkled into episodes here and there. It's another to devote an entire block of episodes or a whole season to a new format that totally violates the basic conceit of the show and doesn't feature any narration from Ted.

Sure, I think if they did that, people would've forgiven it and probably been more softened up for the (at that point extremely obvious) ending, possibly even rooting for Ted/Robin again. But I think the way they did it was more true to format of the show, and as a result more jarring- but also daring, which I have to applaud.

It's the weirdest thing, I'm re-watching Season 1 and all the Ted/Robin stuff just feels that much more significant and special now. I've never had this type of experience in re-watching a sitcom before.

 

[TheBat812]

Well, having the seen the finale, having taken the time to digest it, and reading various reactions to it, I think I know why so many people were so upset with how HIMYM ended the way it did, especially after reading this article. Basically, the finale is a classic example of "what the writers want" going against "what the narrative demands."

Given that the scene with Ted's kids was filmed just before HIMYM's second season and that, based on how the last scene of finale was an deliberate echo of Ted's "Big Romantic Gesture" to Robin from the pilot episode, Bays and Thomas obviously conceived the series as an on-again, off again romance between Ted and Robin, that these were two people who were meant to be together, but who kept getting together at the wrong moments of their lives. Given that Ted's kids encouraged their dad to ask out their "Aunt Robin," Ted getting the blue French horn, and the triumphant, upbeat music at the end, it's clear we, as an audience, were meant to see this as a happy ending for Ted and Robin, that we were supposed to be happy that, after being widowed and divorced respectively, Ted and Robin would finally get together like they were always supposed to.

Unfortunately, the audience realized a long time ago something that the creators didn't: that what the creators of HIMYM wanted was no longer what the narrative demanded.

Time and time again, the audience saw that, for as much as Ted and Robin loved each other and wanted to be together, they were not right for each other, and that they were better off being friends than being in a relationship with each other. Furthermore, the audience saw that Ted's refusal to let Robin go, and his clinging on to the hope that she would come back to him because he believed they were "destined to be together," was unhealthy for them both. His inability to move on from Robin kept sabotaging his other relationships with other women, making him feel more depressed and alone.

So it was no coincidence that when Ted was finally able to realize that if he truly loved Robin and wanted her to be happy that he had to let her go and move on with his life that he ends up meeting someone better for him, someone who was more compatible, someone who could truly love him for being him, and, it just so happens, also had to learn to let go of a past love and move on with her life.

So for the audience, they not only didn't expect Ted and Robin to get back together, they no longer wanted them to because the narrative made it clear how wrong that would be for both of them. For the audience and what the narrative demanded, the real ending to HIMYM was not a widowed Ted and a divorced Robin getting back together--it was Ted and Tracy first meeting each other at the train station. But because the creators, for whatever reason, believed that the story of HIMYM was about the love story of Ted and Robin, and that the show had to end way they originally conceived it, they stubbornly stuck to that ending, even though that ending, based on how the characters and story developed, no longer made sense or was appropriate for those characters and the story.

Maybe Bays and Thomas should've realized the central theme of HIMYM when it came to writing and developing the series: That getting what you want isn't the same as getting what you need.

That was an interesting article that I very much agree with.

Batlobster does raise the good point of the story he's telling his kids not really making sense if it isn't really about Robin. But I always just thought it was important to tell his kids because it showed the journey he had to go through, and just how hard it can be to find the right match for you, and a lesson in not trying to force a relationship that isn't meant to be.

But to me it really felt bizarre because the show led you to believe it was primarily about him meeting the mother only to get you at the end and they tell you it wasn't. Which was even weirder cuz even the first time I watched the show, I thought Robin was going to be the mother. And in a way, she kind of was. Which I guess makes it the natural ending, but at the same time, as stillanerd pointed out, the way they portrayed the Robin and Ted relationship made it seem toxic and unhealthy. So while the timeline of the story allows for all this time for him to reconcile this and for them to change, we as an audience only get one episode between the two moments. I don't know exactly how they could've fixed it (we're talking a season's worth of development, so there are many ways) but it didnt' exactly work that well the way it was. At the same time, they were maybe slaves to their formula like Batlobster mentioned, so maybe there wasn't really a great way to wrap this up.

I dunno, like I said before, the ending worked better for me the second time around, but I honestly would have preferred it to just have ended with "And that's how I met your mother." I certainly wasn't thinking what the daughter said. It makes sense, but I wasn't thinking it at all. It was a weird and shocking surprise since we have NO sense of the 6 year gap they have experienced. It felt very very sudden the way it was executed.

 

[dark_b]

omg it all makes sense now
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wa...ur-mother-last-forever-how-they-conned-us-all

 

[Dwarf lord]

Season One definitely would feel like that's what they're going for. Probably Season Two as well. That's when the ending was written. And that's when Victoria would have been the mother if the show was canceled I don't doubt the writing abilities of Bay and Thomas, so I fully get and consent that the ending was perfect for the show when it was originally thought up.

However the show is entirely different now that it was then. I actually see a shift beginning in Season Three, but doesn't fully develop until the fourth season. When you look at the show at the start, it's about Ted looking to settle down and get married. We know he gets married to the kid's mother in the future, but we know next to nothing about her. There's really no reason to believe that she's his soulmate or one true love. The only references to "I never would have met your mother if such and such didn't happen" could easily be interpreted as for the sake of his children. That's why this ending works there. Because as of now, Robin is seen as that one true love for Ted.

However, once "No Tomorrow" happens they introduce the idea of destiny to the fold where they begin trading the Yellow Umbrella. Still he's getting over Robin at the time, so there's still time to have this work as an ending, but once the end of Season Four comes around, it just doesn't anymore. The last few episodes of Season Four ("The Three Days Rule" "Right Place, Right Time" "As Fast as She Can" and "The Leap") all paint the Mother as Ted's soulmate. And that is the story the run with for the rest of the series. Especially in Double Date and Girls Vs. Suits.

And congruently to that, they make Robin less and less of Ted's soulmate. There are too many false starts and times where they give it a try and it just never works. That's why we say the series outgrew the ending and what the writers wanted no longer fit the narrative demands. I fully admit that there was a time where I wanted Ted and Robin together, but nine years later, that's no longer where the show was.

And don't give me anything about how we're not supposed to see that Ted and Robin are meant to be together and how it's just an example of Ted finally being open to other possibilities after the death of the love of his life. The swell of the music (hell read the lyrics) and the Blue French Horn show that ultimately the story was about how Ted and Robin are destined to be together. That's why it doesn't sit well with me. That may have been the story that they were telling early on, but I was in High School when the show started and now I'm two years out of college. A lot can change in that time and this show was one of those things.

 

[Naked Shia]

Season One definitely would feel like that's what they're going for. Probably Season Two as well. That's when the ending was written. And that's when Victoria would have been the mother if the show was canceled I don't doubt the writing abilities of Bay and Thomas, so I fully get and consent that the ending was perfect for the show when it was originally thought up.

However the show is entirely different now that it was then. I actually see a shift beginning in Season Three, but doesn't fully develop until the fourth season. When you look at the show at the start, it's about Ted looking to settle down and get married. We know he gets married to the kid's mother in the future, but we know next to nothing about her. There's really no reason to believe that she's his soulmate or one true love. The only references to "I never would have met your mother if such and such didn't happen" could easily be interpreted as for the sake of his children. That's why this ending works there. Because as of now, Robin is seen as that one true love for Ted.

However, once "No Tomorrow" happens they introduce the idea of destiny to the fold where they begin trading the Yellow Umbrella. Still he's getting over Robin at the time, so there's still time to have this work as an ending, but once the end of Season Four comes around, it just doesn't anymore. The last few episodes of Season Four ("The Three Days Rule" "Right Place, Right Time" "As Fast as She Can" and "The Leap") all paint the Mother as Ted's soulmate. And that is the story the run with for the rest of the series. Especially in Double Date and Girls Vs. Suits.

And congruently to that, they make Robin less and less of Ted's soulmate. There are too many false starts and times where they give it a try and it just never works. That's why we say the series outgrew the ending and what the writers wanted no longer fit the narrative demands. I fully admit that there was a time where I wanted Ted and Robin together, but nine years later, that's no longer where the show was.

And don't give me anything about how we're not supposed to see that Ted and Robin are meant to be together and how it's just an example of Ted finally being open to other possibilities after the death of the love of his life. The swell of the music (hell read the lyrics) and the Blue French Horn show that ultimately the story was about how Ted and Robin are destined to be together. That's why it doesn't sit well with me. That may have been the story that they were telling early on, but I was in High School when the show started and now I'm two years out of college. A lot can change in that time and this show was one of those things.

Great post. I totally agree with everything you said.

 

[Matt]

It is interesting to see people talk about the show having changed and outgrown it's ending, because people change....but no one accounts for the fact that Ted and Robin have changed. The ending is nearly 25 years after they broke up. They were too different to be together then, but now they are at a different point in life. Ted no longer needs to find his soulmate and one because he already found her. Conversely, Robin no longer has a total fear of commitment or settling down. They are at a different point where starting a relationship is perfectly viable.

 

[Naked Shia]

This is precisely the point. Ted's soulmate was supposed to be Tracy. So why end with him getting back with Robin instead of her? Why make her die? So that the Tedbin shipper would be happy?

 

[Nathan]

It's just utterly unsatisfying. He finally finds his soul mate, only to ultimately end up with the woman of his obsessions when he was younger.

 

[Matt]

This is precisely the point. Ted's soulmate was supposed to be Tracy. So why end with him getting back with Robin instead of her? Why make her die? So that the Tedbin shipper would be happy?

Trust me when I say that I speak from experience, life is seldom that easy.

 

[Erzengel]

It is interesting to see people talk about the show having changed and outgrown it's ending, because people change....but no one accounts for the fact that Ted and Robin have changed. The ending is nearly 25 years after they broke up. They were too different to be together then, but now they are at a different point in life. Ted no longer needs to find his soulmate and one because he already found her. Conversely, Robin no longer has a total fear of commitment or settling down. They are at a different point where starting a relationship is perfectly viable.

It was never really portrayed that Robin has changed, outside of marrying Barney but she's still the career oriented girl and I don't think that's really changed even when she's in her 40s/50s.

Also isn't Ted the same? Same hopeless romantic doing a grand gesture? The only way he's different is he's had and lost the greatest love of his life but he's still the same.

 

[Naked Shia]

Trust me when I say that I speak from experience, life is seldom that easy.

Yeah, but we're not talking about like, we're talking about a tv show. And there isn't much that feels like real life during the 9 seasons.

I don't want a show like HYMIM to be like real life, I want its narrative to make sense, and it doesn't.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Trust me when I say that I speak from experience, life is seldom that easy.

Barney ran a marathon (in good time) after doing no training.

 

[Steyin]

well, having the seen the finale, having taken the time to digest it, and reading various reactions to it, i think i know why so many people were so upset with how himym ended the way it did, especially after reading this article. Basically, the finale is a classic example of "what the writers want" going against "what the narrative demands."

given that the scene with ted's kids was filmed just before himym's second season and that, based on how the last scene of finale was an deliberate echo of ted's "big romantic gesture" to robin from the pilot episode, bays and thomas obviously conceived the series as an on-again, off again romance between ted and robin, that these were two people who were meant to be together, but who kept getting together at the wrong moments of their lives. Given that ted's kids encouraged their dad to ask out their "aunt robin," ted getting the blue french horn, and the triumphant, upbeat music at the end, it's clear we, as an audience, were meant to see this as a happy ending for ted and robin, that we were supposed to be happy that, after being widowed and divorced respectively, ted and robin would finally get together like they were always supposed to.

Unfortunately, the audience realized a long time ago something that the creators didn't: That what the creators of himym wanted was no longer what the narrative demanded.

Time and time again, the audience saw that, for as much as ted and robin loved each other and wanted to be together, they were not right for each other, and that they were better off being friends than being in a relationship with each other. Furthermore, the audience saw that ted's refusal to let robin go, and his clinging on to the hope that she would come back to him because he believed they were "destined to be together," was unhealthy for them both. His inability to move on from robin kept sabotaging his other relationships with other women, making him feel more depressed and alone.

So it was no coincidence that when ted was finally able to realize that if he truly loved robin and wanted her to be happy that he had to let her go and move on with his life that he ends up meeting someone better for him, someone who was more compatible, someone who could truly love him for being him, and, it just so happens, also had to learn to let go of a past love and move on with her life.

So for the audience, they not only didn't expect ted and robin to get back together, they no longer wanted them to because the narrative made it clear how wrong that would be for both of them. For the audience and what the narrative demanded, the real ending to himym was not a widowed ted and a divorced robin getting back together--it was ted and tracy first meeting each other at the train station. But because the creators, for whatever reason, believed that the story of himym was about the love story of ted and robin, and that the show had to end way they originally conceived it, they stubbornly stuck to that ending, even though that ending, based on how the characters and story developed, no longer made sense or was appropriate for those characters and the story.

Maybe bays and thomas should've realized the central theme of himym when it came to writing and developing the series: That getting what you want isn't the same as getting what you need.

season one definitely would feel like that's what they're going for. Probably season two as well. That's when the ending was written. And that's when victoria would have been the mother if the show was canceled i don't doubt the writing abilities of bay and thomas, so i fully get and consent that the ending was perfect for the show when it was originally thought up.

However the show is entirely different now that it was then. I actually see a shift beginning in season three, but doesn't fully develop until the fourth season. When you look at the show at the start, it's about ted looking to settle down and get married. We know he gets married to the kid's mother in the future, but we know next to nothing about her. There's really no reason to believe that she's his soulmate or one true love. The only references to "i never would have met your mother if such and such didn't happen" could easily be interpreted as for the sake of his children. That's why this ending works there. Because as of now, robin is seen as that one true love for ted.

However, once "no tomorrow" happens they introduce the idea of destiny to the fold where they begin trading the yellow umbrella. Still he's getting over robin at the time, so there's still time to have this work as an ending, but once the end of season four comes around, it just doesn't anymore. The last few episodes of season four ("the three days rule" "right place, right time" "as fast as she can" and "the leap") all paint the mother as ted's soulmate. And that is the story the run with for the rest of the series. Especially in double date and girls vs. Suits.

And congruently to that, they make robin less and less of ted's soulmate. There are too many false starts and times where they give it a try and it just never works. That's why we say the series outgrew the ending and what the writers wanted no longer fit the narrative demands. I fully admit that there was a time where i wanted ted and robin together, but nine years later, that's no longer where the show was.

And don't give me anything about how we're not supposed to see that ted and robin are meant to be together and how it's just an example of ted finally being open to other possibilities after the death of the love of his life. The swell of the music (hell read the lyrics) and the blue french horn show that ultimately the story was about how ted and robin are destined to be together. That's why it doesn't sit well with me. That may have been the story that they were telling early on, but i was in high school when the show started and now i'm two years out of college. A lot can change in that time and this show was one of those things.

K.O.

 

[BatLobster]

Ted had two loves of his life. I feel very strongly that the point is NOT that Robin is "The One". Tracy was "The One" too. Watch that scene at the train station and tell me that it wasn't destiny. It's just that tragically, it was also fate that their time together would be cut short.

The point of the ending is Thomas and Bays ultimately asserting that yes, it's possible to have loves of your life, IMO. It happened to Tracy, and it happened to Ted. The old Ted would have mourned Tracy forever and probably stayed single for the rest of his days, reminiscing about the past. But as Tracy tells him in Vesuvius, she doesn't want him to be the guy that "lives in his stories". "Life only moves forward", she says.

The problem is that people see him going back to his ex/best friend using the same romantic gesture as moving backwards, but I'm certain that it's all besides the point. The blue horn is just a reminder of what they once had and a way of saying, "I'm ready, I think you're ready...do you want to give this another shot?". It's a completely different context, a completely different situation and they're very different people. And yes, I've read the lyrics to the song. It's romantic and optimistic sure, but it also has the line "you're my best friend, you've always been". That's Ted and Robin. That doesn't mean Tracy wasn't also the love of his life, it's just that Ted and Robin are already family and have so much history together. Tracy gets this and that's why she tracks down Robin and makes sure she's at the wedding. She understands their history but isn't threatened by it.

The main point of the ending isn't that he goes to Robin, it's that he's able to move forward. If you plug a random woman into that ending, or even make it one of the other women in Ted's life like Victoria/Bella/etc., the same message could still be there but it wouldn't be as satisfying. Because we care about Robin as a character too and want her to be happy. At least I did, and I believed that she finally was in the right place in her life to slow down and be a mom to Ted's kids. Seeing more scenes between her and the kids would've helped sell that more sure, but it also would've telegraphed the ending more than they already did. She blatantly calls Ted the guy she probably should've ended up with, she tried to run off with him at her wedding. Cobie's reaction at the end sold me that she was finally ready for this, and moved by the fact that Ted chose her as the first woman to pursue after six years of mourning.

I think it's fitting that Robin and Tracy are the two loves of Ted's life, because IMO both Cobie Smulders and Cristin Milioti both had the best chemistry with Josh Radnor on the show.

 

[Erzengel]

The main point of the ending isn't that he goes to Robin, it's that he's able to move forward. If you plug a random woman into that ending, or even make it one of the other women in Ted's life like Victoria/Bella/etc., the same message could still be there but it wouldn't as satisfying. Because we care about Robin as a character too and want her to be happy. At least I did, and I believed that she finally was in the right place in her life to slow down and be a mom to Ted's kids. Seeing more scenes between her and the kids would've helped sell that more sure, but it also would've telegraphed the ending more than they already did. She blatantly calls Ted the guy she probably should've ended up with, she tried to run off with him at her wedding.

I think it's fitting that Robin and Tracy are the two loves of Ted's life, because IMO both Cobie Smulders and Cristin Milioti both had the best chemistry with Josh Radnor on the show.

Now that's an assumption. Not an implausible assumption but again they didn't play it out well.

After, Robin tells Lily that everyone's moved on which was 3 and a half years after Ted and Tracy get together. Then we get an appearance from her in front of the Arcadia and then when Ted and Tracy get married. After that her kids, mention about her being over for dinner and pressing Ted to be with her. Then it's her walking her dogs and Ted outside.

We really aren't led to believe outside of Robin saying she should have been with Ted, then 15 years later, smiling when Ted is outside to believe this is what she wants now after all this time. Again plausible but they didn't exactly paint that picture.

 

[Matt]

It was never really portrayed that Robin has changed, outside of marrying Barney but she's still the career oriented girl and I don't think that's really changed even when she's in her 40s/50s.

Also isn't Ted the same? Same hopeless romantic doing a grand gesture? The only way he's different is he's had and lost the greatest love of his life but he's still the same.

I think this is an area where some additional time (or another episode), would've gone a VERY long way.

Robin has clearly grown, but we never see it. We can make the assumption, however, based on two things. Firstly, Robin's dogs. Clearly she has re-established her roots in New York and quit traveling as much. Furthermore and more importantly, Future Ted's narration in earlier episodes. Robin has clearly been a mother figure to Ted's children since Tracy's death. We get this from some of the earlier episodes, Specifically ****ty Pumpkin, in which we learn that Aunt Robin used to create very elaborate Halloween costumes for the children's benefit and Little Boys, in which we see several drawings of Aunt Robin that the children did, depicting activities such as Aunt Robin taking Penny and Luke to the zoo and what not.

As we were saying before Thread Manager killed the earlier thread, there is a picture in which older Ted seems to be having a confrontation with Robin. Based on how aged Ted is, I am guessing this was meant to be shortly after Tracy's death. I think this scene would've been very effective, as it seems like after that fight, Robin stepped up and took on a mother role for the children. She put her career aside to help Ted and his family in their time of need. This implies INCREDIBLE growth for Robin. But even without it, based on Future Ted's previous narratives in ****ty Pumpkin and Little Boys, we can assume that such is the case. Robin, who never wanted a family or children, was thrust into that role to help her friend. She stopped running away from the gang and instead sacrificed for them. That is quite a bit of growth.

Then there is Ted...I think the biggest problem with him, as I said in the other thread, is the use of the blue horn. I get why the writers included that, but I think it was probably a misstep. I'll let my other post speak for itself:

I think this is the problem with the blue French horn. Ted shouldn't have showed up at her apartment with a French horn. He should've thought about it, but ultimately just called Robin. That would've shown growth. That would've created a lot less ambiguity as to whether Ted was in love with Robin, on some level, throughout his marriage. It would've signified that Ted is no longer obsessed with finding love...no longer defining himself by who he is with (which is something he has done throughout the show from Karen to Zoey to Robin to Victoria).

Instead, it is just Ted, now an adult rather than a 20-something kid, content with who he is, wanting to spend some time with someone who was at one point very dear to him and see where it goes. No pressure. No need to say, "I love you," on the first date. Ted, no longer needs to find the one because he already has and Robin who has never been interested in finding the one can just enjoy her relationship with Ted for what it is. It wouldn't be so grand, it would just be two adults enjoying one another's company at a different stage in life.

I feel like that is where Carter and Bays were trying to go, in which case it is a great ****ing arc for Ted. But I feel like the blue horn kinda undermines that. Instead, it is just another grand romantic gesture that says, "OMGZ! I'M STILL IN LOVE WITH ROBIN!"

I think that is why I am having so much difficulty with the ending. I think a more subtle approach, to the same ultimate ending, would've made a word of difference.

That being said, the ending is not nearly as terrible as some are acting. The ending, in a way, perfectly completes Ted's story arc. But it also does not do so in a perfect manner (or anywhere close to it). So I disagree that the show "outgrew," its ending. It is still the logical end point for Ted. But the show failed to conclude the arc as effectively as it could.

So yeah, I think the blue horn kind of gave viewers the impression that Ted was in love with Robin the whole time, but I don't think that is the case. Nor do I think Ted and Robin are going to declare their love for one another. I think it is simply two adults, who have essentially been family for 25 years, attempting to take their relationship to a new level, now that both are at different points in their lives.

Dunno, that is how I read it. I think an extended cut would've made a world of difference, but I don't think the ending is inherently illogical or in conflict with what we know of the characters.

Edit: I also think Ted waiting so long to marry Tracy shows that he had outgrown all of his silly, overly romantic notions about needing to find a wife. At that point, he found the one. A ring no longer mattered to Ted. All that mattered was being with Tracy...and he was. Ted had grown, Robin had grown. The things that kept them apart in the past (Ted's naive romanticism and Robin's fear of commitment and obsession with her career) had both left them behind. They have grown into new people who can enjoy one another's company. That is all that I took from the ending.

 

[BatLobster]

Yup, honestly I think we're interpreting it right Matt and it is NOT the "Ted always loved Robin forever <3 <3" message. Radnor even said he was concerned about Ted and Robin's lunch scene being cut because he thought it conveyed pretty clearly that Robin was thinking about Ted more than Ted had been thinking about Robin.

I look forward to the extended cut and/or deleted scenes.

 

[Erzengel]

I don't necessarily disagree with you Matt but I forgot the thing from ****ty Pumpkin probably because it was from Season 1. Little Boys was Season 3. Having to reach back that for to reinforce Robin in the finale isn't necessarily HIMYM's style. Especially they make it a point to rehash stuff when they've had two parters or referencing stuff from other episodes/seasons.

I totally whiffed on the dogs and having roots. Although if they were as forward thinking as they were about setting them up again, they should have said something in other episodes like Robin did get a few more dogs again or while Robin wanted to travel eventually she learned to call NY her home, etc.

Again going from that's how I met your mother to him talking to his kids and then going to find Robin was a lot to take in. I'm not sure how it could have been done differently that wouldn't have spoiled the mother dying but there's a LOT of assumptions to make especially for Robin to show that they both were at different places and have changed. They probably needed another half an hour.