Days of Future Past How Much Was REALLY Retconned?

[Loki882]

It seems like they're just going to ignore most of TLS and Origins from now one (except maybe bringing Liev back at some point). So it's probably best if fans do as well. Heck, that ending was pretty much a giant middle finger to TLS.

 

[TheDarkCreed86]

On the subject of brothers. Seeing Charles hurt so much after losing his 'sister', I doubt we'll see Juggernaut turn up soon to cause him more tension. It looks like they exchanged Marko with Raven. I still cringe when I watch Last Stand and see Prof X go right past Juggernaut like he's nothing but some random mutant, which I guess he is in this universe

 

[Loki882]

I think that Ratner and co just ignored the whole "Marko is Xavier's half-brother" thing from the comics. There was never any kind of indication that they had even met before that scene.

 

[docdoc]

This just made my day :P

 

[TheDarkCreed86]

I know, I really like the xmen movies, but it does grind me that they ignored nearly all the relationships from the comic. Prof X and Juggernaut as brothers, Mystique and Nightcrawler being mother and son, the Summer brothers. I was worried going into this movie that Magneto and Quicksilver wasn't going to be related, I was actually expecting it this time, then they hint at them being father and son and I actually was surprised that they kept that intact lol.

 

[X-Maniac]

I know, I really like the xmen movies, but it does grind me that they ignored nearly all the relationships from the comic. Prof X and Juggernaut as brothers, Mystique and Nightcrawler being mother and son, the Summer brothers. I was worried going into this movie that Magneto and Quicksilver wasn't going to be related, I was actually expecting it this time, then they hint at them being father and son and I actually was surprised that they kept that intact lol.

Too many relationships makes the movieworld seem smaller and also can feel a bit like a daytime soap opera when long-lost family members suddenly appear.

 

[Loki882]

They've also said that Cyclops and Havok ARE in fact related in some way. They just haven't said how yet.

 

[JJmelo]

It seems like they're just going to ignore most of TLS and Origins from now one (except maybe bringing Liev back at some point). So it's probably best if fans do as well. Heck, that ending was pretty much a giant middle finger to TLS.

They completely removed all prior X films except First Class. Everything after 73 didn't happen, or happened differently.

While it is a good way of correcting (or deleting) past mistakes it does make The Wolverine superfluous. That joie just came out and now it means nothing. Implying that The Wolverine 3 will have little to no connection to the last one... unless they make it clear that it is a continuation of that timeline and not the new one. Even then its kind of dumb because it has no bearing on the core timeline.

http://otlnews.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/x-men-days-of-future-past-review/

My review if peeps are interested

 

[Xeno-noesis]

They completely removed all prior X films except First Class. Everything after 73 didn't happen, or happened differently.

While it is a good way of correcting (or deleting) past mistakes it does make The Wolverine superfluous. That joie just came out and now it means nothing. Implying that The Wolverine 3 will have little to no connection to the last one... unless they make it clear that it is a continuation of that timeline and not the new one. Even then its kind of dumb because it has no bearing on the core timeline.

http://otlnews.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/x-men-days-of-future-past-review/

My review if peeps are interested

I don't think it can be said that the first X-Men was erased entirely, seeing as Wolverine is with the X-Men. Also, all of the original cast through X3 are alive and well in the present too. DOFP merely brought closure and a "happy ending" to the first trilogy.

All of the films are a part of the overall story arc so they can't be truly retconned...those films still need to be watched to justify DOFP's raison d'etre.

However, DOFP did fix the big screw-up that First Class created, continuity-wise. The actual team that was assembled was destroyed, save Beast and Havok.

Ultimately, it's this - a new film had to be produced solely to undo the previous film's attempt at a reboot and bring two old characters back from the dead with no explanation.

 

[X-Maniac]

Ultimately, it's this - a new film had to be produced solely to undo the previous film's attempt at a reboot and bring two old characters back from the dead with no explanation.

No, lol. The studio doesn't spend $200m just to do that.

They were doing the DoFP story anyway and it happened to be a platform for some tidying up.

 

[Xeno-noesis]

No, lol. The studio doesn't spend $200m just to do that.

They were doing the DoFP story anyway and it happened to be a platform for some tidying up.

Yet it is the net result. The purpose of a time-travel film is its ending.

 

[X-Maniac]

Yet it is the net result. The purpose of a time-travel film is its ending.

Not really. They were already aiming to do a story where Xavier was the focus, facing the challenges of living with paralysis and trying to set up a school, which led him to a dark place. They already planned Magneto being linked to the JFK assassination. I believe Wolverine was already going to be the new character who had to become involved in getting Xavier 'back on his feet' (literally as it turned out) again.

The aim of the movie was to show Xavier's struggles. They wanted McKellen and Stewart to do book-end cameos showing how their characters turned out, then they developed it into DoFP. They then decided to dump most of the rest of the FC cast, which Vaughn would have kept in his initial version.

The movie wasn't about the happy ending. It could have ended in any number of ways - such as with Wolverine waking up in Age of Apocalypse as in the animated series. It was about getting Xavier back on track.

 

[Sun_Down]

We can't really know what has been changed until we see Apocalypse. But I think we can speculate about the following:

-Xavier still forms the X-Men with basically the same personnel. It's safe to say Magneto forms the Brotherhood but maybe with different personnel.
-Wolverine and Rogue find their way to the mansion, although perhaps under slightly different circumstances. We don't really know about Wolverine and Weapon X.
-Jean, Scott and Xavier are apparently not killed in the cure/Phoenix storyline. It seems implied that Xavier might have taken a different approach with Jean following his experience with Mystique. (I think that something still happened with Jean based on her bright red hair in that scene, but maybe she didn't/hasn't yet lost control.)
-Mystique probably took a different path, but we don't know how different.

I think all the talk of whole movies getting retconned is premature/overly speculative.

 

[Xeno-noesis]

Not really. They were already aiming to do a story where Xavier was the focus, facing the challenges of living with paralysis and trying to set up a school, which led him to a dark place. They already planned Magneto being linked to the JFK assassination. I believe Wolverine was already going to be the new character who had to become involved in getting Xavier 'back on his feet' (literally as it turned out) again.

The aim of the movie was to show Xavier's struggles. They wanted McKellen and Stewart to do book-end cameos showing how their characters turned out, then they developed it into DoFP. They then decided to dump most of the rest of the FC cast, which Vaughn would have kept in his initial version.

The movie wasn't about the happy ending. It could have ended in any number of ways - such as with Wolverine waking up in Age of Apocalypse as in the animated series. It was about getting Xavier back on track.

Ok, I understand you now. I didn't follow the film through it's scripting-writing and pre-production, so I didn't know of the film's initial intentions. I can only go off the final product, but what you said makes sense.

I knew that First Class was originally Origins: Magneto. It shows in the film as the actual "first class" were just random young mutants throw in during a later writing process. It helped explain the "two separate movies spliced together" feeling while watching FC.

 

[X-Maniac]

Ok, I understand you now. I didn't follow the film through it's scripting-writing and pre-production, so I didn't know of the film's initial intentions. I can only go off the final product, but what you said makes sense.

I knew that First Class was originally Origins: Magneto. It shows in the film as the actual "first class" were just random young mutants throw in during a later writing process. It helped explain the "two separate movies spliced together" feeling while watching FC.

Yes, these films are ever-evolving.

Initially, they planned a First Class using the mutants freed from Three Mile Island in Origins, ie Emma, Scott, Banshee, Storm. But they couldn't nail down a powerful plot for that First Class. When Singer came on board, he changed things round, and blended it with elements of X-Men Origins: Magneto (which was actually a pretty good screenplay, I read it!).

I never had the "two movies spliced together feeling" though, even though I recognised some elements of X-Men Origins: Magneto. I just thought the choice of some characters (especially Angel Salvadore, Riptide, Havok) was a bit weird.

 

[Golgo-13]

So they are doing Apocalypse facing the Xmen in the 80's? That means its already taken place in the past? So technically the Xmen already won and defeated him.

Now that they've introduce time travel into the equation, i guess they could just say that it is on another time line where we don't know the outcome.

And what about the Wolverine movie? They can appear in that.

That depends on which time line the Wolevrine prequels takes place on; the original one where Wolverine shows up at the airport to see Trask Industries becoming prominent, or an alternate time line….

 

[Mr.M]

SImon Kinberg has said we will see some of original cast In APocalypse so a few of them
In the altered future may appear In APocalypse.Who is the question.

They had to have something in mind besides just bissecting the timeline into two when they decided to go with that ending. But it wouldn't appear to be featured roles for anyone of the OT sans Jackman.

If Apocalypse is "eternal" then he can act at any point in time. So maybe he doesn't act in one future outcome (end of DOFP).

Time in fact is not linear. No singular point in time is more relevant than the other. So even if event "B" is one possible outcome, it is not dependent on event "A" per say. Everything that has happened or will happen already has happened. This of course destroys the point of DOFP, but that's the uniqueness of a villain like Apocalypse. He is eternal.

Of course for story purposes, I would just have a new event in the timeline resulting in the harbinger of Apocalypse. But maybe it would be a good thing to drop continuity all together with multiple timelines, especially for a franchise that has already fumbled and bumbled a single timeline.

 

[Lencho01]

I'd say there is no retcon. Just straight up reboot.

 

[hoy-small-fry]

-Jean, Scott and Xavier are apparently not killed in the cure/Phoenix storyline. It seems implied that Xavier might have taken a different approach with Jean following his experience with Mystique. (I think that something still happened with Jean based on her bright red hair in that scene, but maybe she didn't/hasn't yet lost control.)

Presumably as a result of seeing what happened to Jean in the OT, he'd take different actions this time around. Likewise if Weapon X doesn't happen in the same way, there's no need to even be at Alkali Lake as Stryker would never have come looking for the House that Xavier built.

 

[By your Command]

This just made my day :P

Mine too

 

[Shikamaru]

Everything past 1973 is gone. Only things canon are now First Class and the 1970's events of DOFP.

I'm not sure if anyone else got this, but First Class and DOFP feel like a two-part prequel to an X-Men reboot to me. First, they're both more of an Xavier/Magneto centered film as opposed to X-Men films, about them during their younger years, which took place before Xavier formed the X-Men as we know them. Second, First Class spent its entire screentime contradicting the previous films and establishing a different world. Then DOFP comes out and actually makes it a different world with different events, given the ending. Third and finally, the final scene is clearly meant to pay a tribute to the original trilogy and cast, and we know the next film will be a sequel to the Past events with a young Scott/Jean/Storm, which is how you would generally start an X-Men reboot.

 

[Lencho01]

It's pretty much the same thing that was done with Star Trek. All the past films have happened, but are now in a different timeline. So, they aren't really valid from here on out expect for FC and DOFP.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

Now as timeline is completely altered due to Wolverine'actions, X-men Origins and Original Trilogy are retconned

 

[aruloff]

Hi there,
Long time reader, first time poster here.
I am not so sure they actually retconned anything.
Here is my take on what happened. Warning: It might contain some fanboy thinking.

The dark future in DOFP is not the timeline from the previous movies, but some (random) alternate Version.
The scene after Logan wakes up is. All movies happened the way they were shown.
Things that need to be cleared for that to work:
- Wolverine/ Stryker: Mystique 'saved' Logan from the River (Potomac?). Maybe Mystique gave him to Stryker, maybe she set him free, maybe he escaped. Assuming Logan was on leave from the military and not remembering anything from DOFP, he would try to get back to duty and back to vietnam. This is where Stryker notices him again and remembers his Claw popping from Mystiques first attempt on Trask. Origins and all Movies following that can happen.
- Sentinels: If the Sentinels were active during the past Movies why did we not see them? Surely they would have used them during that whole Alcatraz business in X3. Considering it took a few hours the government would have had enough time to deploy them or would have stationed some there anyway or would have used them to attack the mutant camp or Stryker, with his good relationship to Trask, would have used them on the raid of the Mansion in X2. The Sentinel in the Danger Room session is based of of Charles' memories from the 70s as a theoretical threat.
- Jean / Cyclops / Prof X: This is getting trickier as this would have happened between the end of X3 and Logan's rising at the end of DOFP. The Jean in X3 is actually the Phoenix and the real Jeans' body is in a Cocoon underwater while her mind is in the white hot room we saw in The Wolverine. The Phoenix nested itself in Jeans mind when she was a teenager. Charles, assuming it is a part of her, teaches/helps her to suppress it.
The emergence of the Phoenix was noticed by Mr. Sinister who developed his obsession for it over the next months/years. After a long time of searching for it he discovers faint traces of it near a dam in Canada and discovers the real Jean and revives her hoping she will lead him to the Phoenix. To get a better chance at it he improves her telepathic/telekinetic abilities through genetic manipulation. While not able to escape Sinister, Jean manages to put Charles' body back together and transfers his consciousness from that coma patient back into him.
The emergence of Sinister and his tries to harness the Phoenix is also what gets Charles and Magneto united again and seek out Wolverine at the Airport.
During that whole time Cyclops was in a coma in a Canadian Hospital because a small part of his mind was trapped in the White Hot Room together with Jean. He regains his consciousness sometime after Sinister frees Jean from her cocoon. He is integral in the defeat of Sinister and the rescue of Jean.
Depending on Jean's and Sinister's involvement in X:Apocalypse he might have noticed the Phoenix back then but lost track due to Jean suppressing it.
- Public knowledge of mutants: Without the internet in the 70s news and recordings of the events are confiscated by the government, eyewitnesses bought or assassinated and some made up terrorist organization is blamed for the destruction of the stadium. Meanwhile redirecting the public focus on the Vietnam war. After some years mutants are regarded as urban legends and only conspiracy theorists talk about them.
- Magneto: After being defeated in DOFP Magneto is licking his wounds for some time and is trying to create a mutant nation in secret on some far away island (Genosha) with only limited success, due to the cover up of the government, but manages to reconnect to Mystique and convinces her that the war against humans was only delayed and not stopped. So she joins him again.
- Cure from X3: It was derived from traces in the syringes that Hank used in the 70s. It was only a temporary cure.

 

[P Supreme]

I think x3 and origins were whiped out which was GREAT CAUSE THOSE
MOVIES SUCK SOMETHING FIERCE

but I still have a problem with Raven being Charles "sister" and in X1 she almost kills him with the cerebro sabotage and never acknowledge each other but I loved Days of future past I'm going forward not looking back