The Dark Knight how shounld play the boy wonder

Maybe its just my inner Jeph Loeb talking, but I think introducing Dick Grayson in the third movie as a small character - and then brining Robin in the 4th makes perfect sense.
 
That could work, too, but I do believe that Nolan is gonna make 1-3 to be a complete arc. He won't want to leave any major loose ends at the end of 3.
 
Keyser Sushi said:
That could work, too, but I do believe that Nolan is gonna make 1-3 to be a complete arc. He won't want to leave any major loose ends at the end of 3.

Good point.
 
Having a 12-13 year old Robin will seriously suck big time. How the hell is a 12 year old suspose to be fighting and beating grown men up like Batman? No one under 16.

12-13 year old Robin=

Batbed.jpg
 
Mr. Socko said:
Having a 12-13 year old Robin will seriously suck big time. How the hell is a 12 year old suspose to be fighting and beating grown men up like Batman? No one under 16.

12-13 year old Robin=

Batbed.jpg

*sighs*

I'm so tired of having to deal with the Werthamian stereotype of the gay Robin. And also of the DEEPLY mistaken impression that a 13 year old boy can't kick a grown man's ass.

Both are false.
 
StorminNorman said:
Good point.

Word.

Apologies for my protracted absence. I was watching the Orioles beat those damn Yankees. :up:
 
Keyser Sushi said:
*sighs*

I'm so tired of having to deal with the Werthamian stereotype of the gay Robin. And also of the DEEPLY mistaken impression that a 13 year old boy can't kick a grown man's ass.

Both are false.

The picture was a joke but a 13 year old Robin could not take on an entire group of thugs with machine guns like Batman did in Batman Begins. If Robin is 13, Batman will have had that much experience. I could probably deal with a 13 year old Robin if he didn't go out at night fighting crime with Batman, he has a bedtime you know. But thats not the problem, the problem is that the general audience would not believe it.

I'd live with whoever, as long as Robin doesn't wear legless tights...

Edit: If Dick Grayson was put in Batman 2, I think he should train for atleast most of the movie.
 
Mr. Socko said:
The picture was a joke but a 13 year old Robin could not take on an entire group of thugs with machine guns like Batman did in Batman Begins. If Robin is 13, Batman will have had that much experience. I could probably deal with a 13 year old Robin if he didn't go out at night fighting crime with Batman, he has a bedtime you know. But thats not the problem, the problem is that the general audience would not believe it.

You seem to be confusing 13 with 7.

I agree with you that Robin would not have the same amount of experience as Batman, and that this could pose a problem, but a good writer could solve that problem very easily. I've already explained it several times on these boards, and I don't want to type it out again. It's EXTREMELY do-able and even believable enough if handled properly.

I'd live with whoever, as long as Robin doesn't wear legless tights...

Word.

Edit: If Dick Grayson was put in Batman 2, I think he should train for atleast most of the movie.

I have a different idea.
 
I mean Batman 3. If Batman 2 takes place right after Begins, then Batman won't even be almost ready for an apprentice. He's not even been Batman for a year.
 
Mr. Socko said:
I mean Batman 3. If Batman 2 takes place right after Begins, then Batman won't even be almost ready for an apprentice. He's not even been Batman for a year.

I know what you mean. I still have a different idea. :up:
 
This was the short version:

Keyser Sushi said:
Robin should be between 13 to 14 years old. He should be a very intense, angry kid. Anybody who thinks a 13 year old boy can't carry off rage doesn't remember what it's like to be a 13 year old boy, and probably has led a very comfortable life.

A 13 year old orphan would be VERY pissed off pretty much of the time. I think that's important. A younger kid will be more dramatically affected by his parents' death (as Bruce was) and would begin his training at the age that Bruce did (in the comics). The difference is that Robin has a Batman to train under.

For people who say that Batman would never endanger a child, you miss the obvious question: suppose the kid was going to go out and try to avenge his parents regardless of what Bruce did? If Bruce couldn't stop Dick from trying to avenge his parents, then the obvious way to ensure Dick's safety is to make sure he's got the training to pull it off. Focus his rage and his guilt into something constructive, as Bruce did.
 
Mr. Socko said:
The picture was a joke but a 13 year old Robin could not take on an entire group of thugs with machine guns like Batman did in Batman Begins. If Robin is 13, Batman will have had that much experience. I could probably deal with a 13 year old Robin if he didn't go out at night fighting crime with Batman, he has a bedtime you know. But thats not the problem, the problem is that the general audience would not believe it.

I'd live with whoever, as long as Robin doesn't wear legless tights...

Edit: If Dick Grayson was put in Batman 2, I think he should train for atleast most of the movie.

Who says that Robin (as a teen) would be instantly thrown into the middle of combat? I think any Robin would be used first as a scout (as he was initially used in the Bob Kane comics) and would gradually move into the ass kicking buisness. I think a Batman trained 15 year old Robin could very well handel a group of thugs - he couldnt handle a major baddy - but meaningless cannon fodder is no big deal.
 
This was the more detailed version... LOL:

Keyser Sushi said:
Suppose, just for a second, that Dick Grayson, teenage acrobat, is orphaned by a killer. Suppose, further, that the circus life is all Dick has ever known. He has friends there, and it's rough life, it involves a lot of travel and a lot of hard work, and he has never had a real home outside of a train car or a truck or bus or whatever they use these days. His family are acrobats. He has already been putting his life on the line every day for as long as he has been physically able to perform on the trapeze.

When his parents are gone, his usefulness to the circus is gone as well. His friends care for him and maybe he tags along with them for a while but he has no real job in the circus any longer.

Now I need you to consider. Dick is not a legal resident of ANY city. He lives on the road. He is a carnie, basically a drifter, and he is a teenager.

Allow me to remind you what it is like to be a teenage boy. You are moody. You are, sometimes, a git, and for no reason other than you woke up feeling that way that day. It's a hormonal thing. It happens.

Furthermore, in case you have never experienced the death of a loved one, let me explain to you that it is usually accompanied by a bit of anger and helplessness. And because Dick was present when it happened, he is also going to feel some survivor's guilt.

Now then. As we have established, Dick is a carnie. Therefore, he is used to having to solve his own problems. He's angry at the guy who killed his parents? No problem, the solution is to go kill the guy. He feels helpless for the first time in his life? The solution is to go do something proactive, like, let's say, hunt down his parents' killer. He feels survivor's guilt? Risking his life to avenge his parents deaths would seem to address this concern as well. Dick is going to go out into the night and try to find his parents' murderer. And he isn't going to need Batman's help to do it.

Hell, at this point he doesn't even KNOW Batman.

Now, there is no social services person coming for Dick, because he is not a legal resident of anyplace. There is nobody looking to adopt this kid. And then Bruce Wayne shows up and offers to give him a home. I think Dick is going to resist this, but he's not an adult and the people at the Circus are going to think that Bruce can give Dick a more normal life than they can.

Dick just wants to avenge his parents' deaths. And Bruce... Bruce wants to protect Dick. Bruce wants to save him. Not to make him into his sidekick. Batman works alone. Bruce wants to PROTECT THE KID.

But he can't stop Dick from trying to find his parents' murderer. He just can't. It would be a full-time job and Bruce already ha a full-time job wearing a cape. He wants to protect the innocent and among them is Dick, but he can't protect Dick AND protect everybody else at the same time. And Dick doesn't want protection. Dick is not helpless, and he is not content to stay home or go to school or do any of those things.

Bruce knows the anger that drives Dick. He wants to take that anger away from Dick, but he can't, and Dick is actually SAFER if he is where Batman can keep an eye on him; Dick is SAFER if he has been taught Keysi Fighting Method; Dick is SAFER if he has body armor and tools. Because make no mistake about it: Dick is GOING TO SEEK VENGEANCE regardless of whether Bruce helps him or not. Bruce's guidance could be the difference between a dead child and a living one. (Bruce's guidance being the force that keeps him alive, of course).

So, it IS helping him. Because without Bruce's training, Dick is going to get himself killed. And there's NOT A DAMN THING ANYBODY CAN DO ABOUT THAT.

Dick never HAD a normal life. He had a happy life with the circus, but it sure as hell wasn't NORMAL. That's kind of the point, isn't it? Dick never had a normal life. He didn't grow up in suburbia playing stickball with Billy and Tim. He grew up shoveling elephant dung and listening to drunken old clowns telling dirty jokes. He grew up with bearded ladies and triple-breasted ****es, he grew up a sort of star in his own little world, learning the family trade and learning to do it right so that he would not die attempting it.

If Robin chose to be a warrior, Batman can't make him take back that choice. And the world needs heroes. A properly trained soldier is always preferable, and less a danger to himself, than one who has no idea what he is doing.
 
StorminNorman said:
Who says that Robin (as a teen) would be instantly thrown into the middle of combat? I think any Robin would be used first as a scout (as he was initially used in the Bob Kane comics) and would gradually move into the ass kicking buisness. I think a Batman trained 15 year old Robin could very well handel a group of thugs - he couldnt handle a major baddy - but meaningless cannon fodder is no big deal.

:up: :up:

Preach it, Norm!
 
"triple-breasted ****es"

ROFL!!!

Nice read there, not to shabby, not to shabby at all.
 
Mr. Socko said:
"triple-breasted ****es"

ROFL!!!

Hehehe... glad you liked that. I'm not sure who, beyond my man Norm, of course, would get that reference...

Nice read there, not to shabby, not to shabby at all.

Thanks. :up:
 
Keyser Sushi said:
Hehehe... glad you liked that. I'm not sure who, beyond my man Norm, of course, would get that reference...
You mean its not Total Recall?? :confused:
 
Ronny Shade said:
You mean its not Total Recall?? :confused:

I suppose it could be that, too. But nothing is one thing. Everything's two things, at least.

In this case, two words come to mind:

"Eccentria Gallumbits."
 
I don't even know what that is.

Please enlighten
 

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