Justice League How would you feel about John Stewart amd Wally West instead of Hal and Barry?

[Llama_Shepherd]

In the comics. Won't matter to GA as long as the movie is good. He can be friends w/whoever they want him to be. Hal & Barry's friendship is only important to the comics fans. GA doesn't care

Well then why not use Alan? Like you said, the GA has no attachment to any of these characters, aside from Superman and Batman.

 

[brainchild81]

John Stewart was critically acclaimed on JLU? When? That title belongs to Batman and Flash (the most popular characters on the show). In fact, John Stewart doesn't even crack the top five on the polls.

Note: Ahem... Green Lantern: The Animated Series has gotten praise for the writing and visuals/artwork. Guess who's the star of the show?

Then why did WB start off with Hal Jordan for the first feature adaptation? Why did WB and DC give Hal his own show? Because he's a crucial part of the DCU.

Because they're ****ups. What polls? Voted on by the GA or the vocal minority? I don't rember voting on that poll. IGN seemed to like him a bunch on that show.Who's praising the GL show?

Im personally fine with the John Stewart character as is, and want him to be in t800264he movie but people keep complaining he is to boring so change him a lil bit and there is no issue. Its a movie anyway so he is not gonna be exactly the same as the comic book version anyway

QFT. It's a very poor argument against him but they don't have much else

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Because they're ****ups. What polls? Voted on by the GA or the vocal minority? I don't rember voting on that poll. IGN seemed to like him a bunch on that show.Who's praising the GL show?

Ironic, you claim that the usage of Hal Jordan is solely because WB/DC are **** ups, and then lecture about poor argumentative points.

Sites like CBM and Comic Vine held polls regarding what character the posters preferred on the show, and John Stewart didn't place in the top five for both. It's still more evidence than what you've presented in saying that Stewart is very popular amongst the GA.

They're called critics and fans.

 

[brainchild81]

Nope. Those posters are in the same boat as us. GA didn't vote. GA ain't posting. I was joking but when it comes to putting DC properties on the big screen they ARE ****ups. Otherwise they'd have something other than Batman going for them. You don't think the GL movie was a ****up? They had success w/out Hal. More than they have w/him. If he was crucial that wouldn't be possible. Are you telling me that comic John being boring to the readers is a valid argument pertaining to a different John being used in a movie? I guess comic Supes is an idiot then for not using his S as a weapon and not kissing people to make them forget stuff

 

[metaphysician]

And Kyle Rayner is mixed race, his father was Hispanic. Dick Grayson is possibly Romani. Mister Miracle is black. Red Arrow was raised Native American.

Is there a retcon I haven't heard of? Or did you mean Mr Terrific?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Nope. Those posters are in the same boat as us. GA didn't vote. GA ain't posting.

Then provide evidence proving John Stewart was memorable and beloved by the GA. Until otherwise, your statement is baseless.

I was joking but when it comes to putting DC properties on the big screen they ARE ****ups. Otherwise they'd have something other than Batman going for them. You don't think the GL movie was a ****up?

Noone is implying that WB's recent track record is impressive, but to claim WB is incompetent because Hal Jordan is their number one Green Lantern is just asinine.

They had success w/out Hal. More than they have w/him. If he was crucial that wouldn't be possible.

Once more, prove it.

JLU wasn't a smashing success because of John Stewart. So your point is moot.

Are you telling me that comic John being boring to the readers is a valid argument pertaining to a different John being used in a movie?

One of my personal beefs [as a comic fan] with Stewart is that he is a bland and vapid character, but that aside, I objectively view Hal as the bigger piece for the DCU, and so do many other fans. Without Hal, you can't have John and Kyle.

 

[brainchild81]

It's obvious that you can. They both existed in the DCAU w/out him. I don't need to prove Hal's not crucial. We already know it. The JLU was successful w/out him and John helped. By definition, if Hal was crucial they couldn't have. I don't think he was on Superpowers either. Are you saying they HAVE to have Hal? You saying the movie will flop if they don't?

John on that show had members of the GA asking why they used a white guy for GL as noted by myself and a few others here. Hell, they CHANGED comic John to be like the cartoon one. That's proof enough. Why else would DC do that? John was slated to be used in a JL flick but it was nixed.

I'm not saying WB are incompetent because they chose Hal. I'm saying they chose Hal because they are incompetent. Same as them choosing to make J.Hex metahuman. Same as them allowing the CINO movie to be made. They **** up a lot. They were incompetent LONG b4 they ****ed up the GL movie.

Did you like John on JLU?

 

[TheWatcher]

Hal is the center of the entire GL universe.

It revolves around him.

 

[DaveMoral]

Hal was in Superfriends. And Hal is in the DCAU, "in" the episode of Superman TAS(by way of a fighter jet with his name on it) that introduces Kyle and in JLU: The Once and Future Thing part 2. They could potentially tweak the timeline still to work GLTAS into thw DCAU in much the same way the used John(and introduced him as if everyone already knew him despite not having appeared before Secret Origins)... just say Hal was on assignment elsewhere. Hell, he's an Honor Guard now just as John was when Kyle was chosen and Kyle was when John came back to his sector. Easy to work Hal and Guy into the mix IMO. Even Timm and co felt it necessary to nod to Hal as a crucial element of the GL mythos.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Is there a retcon I haven't heard of? Or did you mean Mr Terrific?

Shiloh Norman is one of 3 Mr Miracles and he has been black since he was introduced in 1973.

 

[brainchild81]

Hal was in Superfriends. And Hal is in the DCAU, "in" the episode of Superman TAS(by way of a fighter jet with his name on it) that introduces Kyle and in JLU: The Once and Future Thing part 2. They could potentially tweak the timeline still to work GLTAS into thw DCAU in much the same way the used John(and introduced him as if everyone already knew him despite not having appeared before Secret Origins)... just say Hal was on assignment elsewhere. Hell, he's an Honor Guard now just as John was when Kyle was chosen and Kyle was when John came back to his sector. Easy to work Hal and Guy into the mix IMO. Even Timm and co felt it necessary to nod to Hal as a crucial element of the GL mythos.

Not appearing on screen but having your name appear != crucial. Gambit's real name was on a computer screen in XMEN 2. He was not crucial and I'm a Gambit fan. If you wanna count that as an appearance then fine, I hope Hal gets to appear in JL as much as he appeared in STAS

 

[HighFivingMF]

 

[DaveMoral]

Not appearing on screen but having your name appear != crucial. Gambit's real name was on a computer screen in XMEN 2. He was not crucial and I'm a Gambit fan. If you wanna count that as an appearance then fine, I hope Hal gets to appear in JL as much as he appeared in STAS

I'm thinking you don't understand what's being said.

Keep on being delusional. John Stewart hasn't been interesting since JLU went off the air... he hasn't had a decent comic story in... ever.

Also, any JL movie is going to be targeted at kids as much as adults. John Stewart isn't even on the JL radar for most kids these days. Take a little trip through the little boys clothing isle next time you're out... how many shirts or underoos do you see with John Stewart on them?

My 6 year old was wearing his Justice League t-shirt today... guess who is on it? Hal Jordan.He's literally everywhere. I asked my boy who he likes the most, and he knows all the Earth GLs, and he said Hal. He has toys of Hal, John and Guy.

 

[TheWatcher]

Well put.

 

[Baramos]

I'm fine with that. Green Lantern has never been very interesting to me, and Wally West is more entertaining than Barry Allen...

 

[DaveMoral]

Another point to made, the reason Kyle Rayner was used in STAS was because he was the comic GL at the time. But in order to bring him into GL status they hsd to hijack Hal's origin with Abin Sur.

Ot would.make zero sense to use John instead of Hal just because the GL movie flopped and John was in the old show. It's been gone for 6-7 years now. The only placs Stewart is now is a couple Super Friends kid books, but Hal is on toy shelves in the Imaginext Super Friends line(I bought my son the Oa playset), he's on shirts, underwear and jammies, he's got an entire tv series now on Saturday mornings and a companion comic. The momentum is Hal Jordan and that's not going to change.

They will likely recast and aim for a spin off movie if JL is a hit. I'd love to see RR back because I thought he was a good Hal and I want to see Strong's Sinestro fighting him. Bit they aren't goinf to use John and there's no real reason to use him.

 

[brainchild81]

Y'all are misusing ''crucial”. Hal isn't. No GL is tbh. If he was irreplaceable he would never have been replaced. If things go as they have been going (unfortunately for shows that I like such as A:EMH & YJ) , GLTAS will be wrapping up when this season is over & kids will move on to the next thing.

They need to flush everything in that POS film down the toilet. I told everybody that GL was gonna flop and I'm telling everybody right now that any live action GL film w/Hal will have a similar result, especially w/RR. You liked the 1st film?

 

[The Guard]

Keep on being delusional. John Stewart hasn't been interesting since JLU went off the air... he hasn't had a decent comic story in... ever

MOSAIC was pretty cool...but that probably won't be a film anytime soon.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Y'all are misusing ''crucial”. Hal isn't. No GL is tbh. If he was irreplaceable he would never have been replaced. If things go as they have been going (unfortunately for shows that I like such as A:EMH & YJ) , GLTAS will be wrapping up when this season is over & kids will move on to the next thing.

They need to flush everything in that POS film down the toilet. I told everybody that GL was gonna flop and I'm telling everybody right now that any live action GL film w/Hal will have a similar result, especially w/RR. You liked the 1st film?

Holy crap. You are delusional.

 

[brainchild81]

Lame. What part of my post was delusional? Anything you KNOW isn't true?

 

[DaveMoral]

You make completely asinine statements like "Hal isn't crucial." That's delusional.

Hal Jordan kicked off the whole GLC universe. Guy, John and Kyle all have back stories that are related to what Hal Jordan does. As a character he has literally shaped everything that the GL mythos is today. Every human GL is derivative of Hal Jordan in some way.

If a GL movie that has Hal Jordan can't be a hit it has nothing to do with Hal Jordan and everything to do with A) the writing or B) a concept that is just too far fetched for audiences to buy into. Audiences that have bought into the concept of a Norse god coming to Earth and playing superhero with human beings that have been genetically enhanced, mutated or wear robotic battle armor.

If it's the writing, then it's the writing. Has nothing to do with the character. You could write an unlikable Bruce Wayne/Batman, film a movie, have it flop and that wouldn't mean that any Batman movie starring Bruce Wayne would fail. It means the crappy writers need to go. GL needed better writing and editing, the failure of that film had very little to do with Ryan Reynolds or the character of Hal Jordan and almost everything to do with a shoddy marketing campaign that started with unfinished CGI in a teaser, emphasis on comedy, then a switch of gears to an emphasis on space-faring, bad writing, bad editing and too many cooks in the kitchen. Not to mention ****e villains.

Do a live action First Flight, even with Ryan Reynolds, and you'd have a very different outcome for GL. Very different.

EDIT: In everything I've been saying about Earth GLs, I keep forgetting the new one... Simon Baz. His origin too, is entirely dependent upon Hal Jordan.

 

[brainchild81]

I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time grasping this. JLU John got along just fine w/out Hal even being mentioned. Hal wasn't crucial because he wasn't there and everything turned out fine. You might wanna look up the definition of crucial. Things don't go well when crucial elements are left out. Hal was nowhere to be seen and things turned out better than ever. He's not crucial. If he was he would have HAD to BE there

 

[Random490]

Interesting idea, choosing between different characters of essentially the same hero. Personally I think the main goal for choosing which character to use is to know what kind of film your making. How do you want the team to interact, how does that drive the story and character development, which will get you the best film. A lot of that is in the writing, a lot of it is in the acting, as well as directing.

I never really like Hal Jordan, I just find his character quite annoying. There are only few things I've seen (comics, animation, etc) where I actually like him. The problem is his character is typically the over confident and cocky guy. And there's always a good chance that he can come off as unlikable and hurt the film. Now to be clear I'm not stay that characteristic is bad just a bit tricky. It worked great in the first JL New 52 arc, where he and Batman played off each other perfectly. But fail in the GL movie where you just hate the hotshot pilot who puts an entire company worth of jobs on the line to prove a point and is rewarded with ultimate power and the girl; while hector hammond, a shaper of young mind who deserves respect, gets treated like trash by everyone gets a power that turns into a hideous psychopath. The point is you shouldn't be rooting for the second rate villain. After all is said and done I wouldn't choose Hal except... wait for it... if he is being played by Nathan Fillion, someone who can pull off the cocky hotshot with the charm needed to make him incredibly likable, much like the greatness Robert Downey Jr. achieved. For Hal it's all about the casting.

Now for John Stewart I love his character I thought he was great in the cartoons. I think being a marine and architect is a perfect background for the green lantern corp, I feel like that adds a lot more to the character than test pilot. Plus the way he plays off flash in JLU is fantastic and they made a great duo. The problem is that I feel he is very under utilized in the comics which is a shame since JLU really gave him a lot of good exposure and good ground work to grow. It comes back to what kind of team and character you want, if you want the cocky but charming, or the tough no nonsense soldier. I for one prefer the latter.

For Flash, I honestly don't care that much because I feel that either way their going to combine the best of both so it's going to be about the name and hair color. And I predicted the JL movie will have Barry Allen if only because he is the current Flash. For his personality I really feel they should go with comedic from JLU. Because it comes back to team dynamics and it's good to have a comic relief, now this doesn't mean he'll be over the top, but in JLU Flash had great moments in that show not only as the humor, but as the innocent, trusting, and honest one. Just all around a good guy, (see JLU episode Flash and Substance). It really help define him, make him stand out on his own, but also support the whole team dynamic. If Batman is the Brains, Superman is the Hope, Wonder Woman is the Honor, then Flash is the Kind.

So my choice would be John Stewart and Barry Allen, playing on the GL/Flash role they had in JLU. I think it works really well and to me it's more important to have the best character interaction for the team and I feel GL/Flash is best and Stewart fits that better than Hal. Though again if Nathan Fillion or someone equally perfect for that kind of role I would gladly welcome him.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Honestly, some of you in here can't comprehend the difference between what is needed to establish the DCU and what you personally want (ex. no Hal unless he's played by Nathon Fillon; John Stewart was great on JLU so he's automatically superior to Hal). Get over it. Hal Jordan is the essential key to everything in the DCU and Green Lantern Corps. You can't have Guy, Kyle or John without Hal. Period. It doesn't matter if you find John Stewart to be the more desirable character, and that he was featured in JLU show without a single mention of Hal. WB is seeking to introduce the DCU with Justice League, therefore, you have to start with the precursors/predecessors in Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, Diana Prince, Barry Allen and Hal Jordan; not with Dick Grayson, Wally West or John Stewart in the starting line-up just because you prefer it.

 

[Random490]

It's funny how you say "You can't have Guy, Kyle or John without Hal." Because WB has done that before with Superman TAS, JLU, and Batman Brave and the Bold. You don't "need" Hal Jordan and Barry Allen to introduce Green Lantern and Flash. specially since a JL movie probably won't bother telling most of their origins so that matters even less. And I was analyzing on story, character driven, and what works best for the potential film. Weighing the pros and cons. Hal's character working and being good relies heavy on the actor chosen for the role, nathan fillion being a prime example of someone who can pull that off. it is all about marketing and may choose who are currently on the team in the comics. But that doesn't mean that the writers/director won't choose someone different. If they did you just see the line up change in the comics like they do all the time when a movie comes out.

I think which route they go depends on the director and way the movie is made. If you get a passionate director who loves the source material and has great love for all the DC universe you may have a toss up on which character he chooses. Since his choice will mostly likely be based on which character works best(which I prefer the director do even if his choice is different from mine.). But if the studio gets just anybody as a director you'll see pretty much the same line up you do currently in the comics. And that would be marketing; not who was first, or main, or deserves it.

I just think it's kind of silly to say you have to you the first character. The reason people stand up for John and Wally so much is that JLU didn't do that and it worked out so well it's worth taking a look at. I just say it should be about story, character, and team dynamic first. If they do that the movie would be much better whether I shared the same choices or not. When I looked at it I came to the conclusion that John and Barry worked better, it's for the movie I envisioned, the movie I would want to see, and the movie I think audiences would like best. But also pointed out that with the right actor I could be convinced to choose Hal instead.