I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[Mr Sensitive]

I've been reading all of these posts and I've realized something. No matter how much you may comlain and whine, none of you die-hard faithful fan boys are going to get your way. I'm a huge Doctor Doom fan too. I am upset with the changes thta they made, but I'm satisfied with the Doom that we're stuck with now.

I would like to know what's your plan in this thread? Do you honestly think that by posting compliants about movie Doom that Hollywood is going to do something about it? Of course not. You and I both know it, It's obvious. Or are you trying to keep people from seeing the movie because Doom is not the way you invisioned it? I don't think that either. No one can sink that low.

Don't give me that BS about speaking your mind, because most of you have already spoken enough. There are at least 127 pages full of compliants, whining and observations. I think by now you've made your point. Now, my group of other fan-boys are going to see the movie and we're going to like movie Doom no matter how much bad treatment it may have gotten. What pisses me off, is that many of the posts here are unknowingly changing people's views of the movie for the worse.

I know people are going to bash me because I wrote this, but I wanted to show a different view for a change.

No bashing, Comic Man, but that implies vividly that you are taking whatever they throw at you.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

If you mean to say "preference" instead of "opinion", with "opinion" meaning a factual-type statement or argument, then you have a good point. If not, then your point is worthless. Arguments are prey waiting to be attacked. Preferences are completely abstract and can't be attacked. It's your choice, what you meant to say.

Preference, opinion--Herr it's the same. These are choices and we are all entitled to make our own.

Here's what blows my mind: You know I am displeased with the treatment of Doom. I've never defended the changes to him beyond giving credence to the possiblities of extending his character for a sequal and to be a more powerful solo opponent in this film's origin setting. Does that make the changes right? No. But that's why they were made--period.

And as I stated on this very thread yesterday, if he is not handled properly I will be the first to say so--as with anything else about this film. I don't sugar coat the truth and I never have.

But I don't like the dismissive slant some are taking with these new up-and-coming fans simply because they are comfortable with what they see of Doom so far. I'm seeing these people get called out and that's not fair because they too are entitled to their preferences. When I see others bullying these people to conform to their thinking, as if their opinions are subpar I am going to step in to bring back the equilibrium.

And that's what was needed yesterday.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I've been skimming this thread a bit, especially now that this is two threads merged, so I haven't seen everything leveled at Lightning. I just know that he supported an ignorant, pathetically conformist generalization made towards "fanboys," and nobody gets a free pass at that. He pretends he himself belongs in that category, as if it's a shield against criticism when he makes insults toward it. Everyone is prone to make generalizations when they're angry, but he had his chance to recant and instead tried to pull another sleight-of-word that would trick only the most unintelligent of readers. If he doesn't care what I think, and feels the need to make that clear even though I stated outright that he would say it, then I see no reason to keep making excuses for him. If anyone wants to believe that this board contains more than just tribalistic a$$holes who are so easily polarized in their views, it's me. You're a pretty consistent example of hope in that area, but Lighting failed that test today.

I respect you for trying to calm things down last night. I wasn't inclined to chime in because I'd become sick and tired of idiotic threads like that, and to be honest, you were a bit confusing in your wording. But we both know that thread was created in ill will, and I have no respect for people jumping on that bandwagon merely for the sake of tribalism and justifying people's shallow, gullible predilictions. I've made it clear I draw a line between preferences and arguments, so I won't hold back against inferior and ignorant arguments unless I simply don't feel like responding. My passion for this board has waned considerably, and it's for the same reason that conformists are complaining that their own numbers and passions are dwindling: the other side is pissing them off with their pervasive hostility.

Well from this point you and Lightnin can handle your own buisness,i'm guessing neither of you need me to play a part in it,i just didn't like the way he was getting it from all sides.
As for my wording last night i was trying to make the point that if someone said "the movie doom is faithful to comic origin and character" i would be the first to say it was false,i did in my opening post in the other thread prior to the merger.so i do not go along with the idea that this is doom done faithfully and i also have said that it couldve been done faithfully,i even wrote a prologue showing how.My problem was with the attitude that a movie fan i.e Mrs Fantastic had no right to say that they respect the fact doom has been changed and that upsets some of the hardcore fans but she likes the new version better than the stuff she had read about the real doom.that somehow that opinion was worthless and invalid,so to me to say it is faithful is wrong but also to say that someone who likes movie doom better is somehow a moron is also wrong,I do agree this thread was a needles and inciting jab at the doom fans that was always going to cause trouble,Ive given my view of how i am gonna treat this as elseworlds doom(despite some depressing news from a couple of screenings) and i don't expect you or anyone else to follow me in that thinking but i also expect to be allowed to voice my choice without being attacked.You can rest assured after i see the movie i will be totally objective to all areas as i was in my Batman Begins review

 

[Hunter Rider]

Not really calling "us' anything. Defending a studio who cares as much for Caliph as the years top model cares for any of us, warrants such a claim, and yes, calling anyone a whiner is name calling, so... again, if the shoe fits, wear it. As for saying he's the first to admit his flaws, I've heard most everyone here admit their flaws, so what does what you say have to do with anything?

you missed my point,he calls you a whiner > then you call him a conformist but the foxplant thing is both lame and as you well know the lowest blow

 

[Herr Logan]

Preference, opinion--Herr it's the same. These are choices and we are all entitled to make our own.

Here's what blows my mind: You know I am displeased with the treatment of Doom. I've never defended the changes to him beyond giving credence to the possiblities of extending his character for a sequal and to be a more powerful solo opponent in this film's origin setting. Does that make the changes right? No. But that's why they were made--period.

And as I stated on this very thread yesterday, if he is not handled properly I will be the first to say so--as with anything else about this film. I don't sugar coat the truth and I never have.

But I don't like the dismissive slant some are taking with these new up-and-coming fans simply because they are comfortable with what they see of Doom so far. I'm seeing these people get called out and that's not fair because they too are entitled to their preferences. When I see others bullying these people to conform to their thinking, as if their opinions are subpar I am going to step in to bring back the equilibrium.

And that's what was needed yesterday.

If you think that the only ones who are being bullied are people who support the bastardization of Doom, you're dead wrong. They only reason I ever took a nasty tone with another poster for expressing a preference for a decision made in a comic book movie over another one is that the preference was accompanied by an argument that carried either big implications or simply outright insulted people of the opposing viewpoint. That's a preference followed by an opinion. There is a difference, Lightning. A preference is merely someone saying "I like this" or "I don't like this." An opinion goes into reasoning and value judgements. That's the difference I'm talking about. I was introduced to conformist bullies on this site long ago, and I decided I wasn't going to put up with it. Most of them aren't as knowledge or even as intelligent as me, and so I don't pretend otherwise. There are also people of inferior intelligence who insult others merely for preferring the changes over a faithful adaptation. Those people are very small in number and often get banned before I can even get my claws into them, so if you don't see me talking down to a lot of people who hold that paradigm, that's probably why. The truth is the truth, and bullying is bullying. No one gets a free pass, and if I've missed someone, then I've missed someone. It doesn't mean I support that kind of bullshi1t coming from people with a similar paradigm in these issues.

You want an example of someone who can civilly draw the line between preference and opinion and can express a liking of a movie product that does, in fact, have massive flaws in it, look at Hunter Rider. You no longer fit that bill, if you ever really did.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

"Premature complaining and folks writing off something they haven't seen yet?"
You're still under the impression that people don't have access to the information on which they're basing their criticism? No, that can't be. You're too smart for that, but apparently you think I'm dumb enough to buy that nonsense. That's more insulting than writing off people's crticisms as mere "whining," and that by itself is disgustingly offensive.

No, I realize that info is out there. But I have followed many movies closely like this one. I followed both X-films, and Spider-Man 2. And I know that in many cases the novelizations, script drafts and other info are often way off the mark from the theatrical release. So I guess I am holding out hope that despite the premise of Dr. Doom on paper, that somehow Julian's performance will carry a different element. Do I really believe this will happen? (No.) But I am going to remain optimistic about it until I can truly judge it for myself.

And no, people weren't criticizing: They were whining Herr....and badly. Like...sheep bleating.

There is a stark difference between: "I think this adaptation of Doom is bad because of ______________________"

and

"Oh god, this is going to suck, how could they do this, this movie is going to have the worst movie villain ever, F*** Fox, Screw Tim Story, they are run by a$$holes, and I hate them all, and you're stupid for liking it!"



That's what I was getting sick of--there was no intelligent critiquing done there Herr--just b1tching for the sake of it. And when those same individuals started going off on others for embracing the good points we know of Movie Doom, I said, "that's it."

 

[Iron Maiden]

But I don't like the dismissive slant some are taking with these new up-and-coming fans simply because they are comfortable with what they see of Doom so far. I'm seeing these people get called out and that's not fair because they too are entitled to their preferences. When I see others bullying these people to conform to their thinking, as if their opinions are subpar I am going to step in to bring back the equilibrium.

And that's what was needed yesterday.

I agree with you. Some of the tone of the replies were "I am the biggest Doom fan and you must yield to my opinions". I think they must have been subjected to the Doombots' Remembrancer device that was inflicted upon little Kristoff because they are sure channeling the Master's personality traits. Heck, I doubt if there are a those who go back as far as I do in keeping tabs on one of my favorite Marvel characters, which is to say since around 1964.

Let's all focus on supporting this film because I think Hollywood is very aware of the MB complaints and the point has been made a long time ago. Heck, they even make note of this in the upcoming TV guide issue that there has been a lot of MB "crankiness" about this. If things work out, we may get a much better Doom in the sequels.. ... even if we won't see much of Julian McMahon from this point on. Unless this version of Doom finally figures out how to holographically project his original face instead of resorting to wearing a mask all the time.

I think it would be great if the FF movie can breaks the Hollywood slump. "Batman Begins" has lost steam already on the second weekend, dropping down to around 26 million. I just hope this trend doesn't continue with the FF.

 

[Head>On<Collider]

Do me a favor and stick to the content Caliph put forth in the arguments at hand, please. His status as a model doesn't belong in this argument.

I know we're moving at a gavillion miles a minuit right now, but Please reread my post Herr.Because in Actuality, that particular post was about the way he jumps to Fox's defense and has nothing to do with him claiming to be a model. I drew an analogy between Fox execs giving a rats azz about him the same way a model(female model) "appreciates any one of us for defending their looks. I may have brought up the factor in a different post, but it was unrelated. In the other post I distinctly made it clear that if he's going to make personal statements about my acting like a beaten child who goes around "chumming" up to bullies, then I have every right to do the same in return. Sometimes I let it slide, other times, I respond. That's how I work, and if I get assaulted by flamers for doing so, then damn it, that's just a thorn I'll have to live with.
As for him claiming to be a model or a firefighter, I actually believe him. Granted, I've had doubts about him as being either of them, but 1) This is the internet, therefore, theres nothing weong with that kind of thinking and mentioning of it(just like you or anyone else here has every right to question whether or not I'm full of crap when I say anything about myself) 2) on the other side of that coin, I believe in innocent until proven guilty... However, when one such as himself takes the liberty to make claims about one's(namely myself) personal life, how is it not fair game to mention his personal life in return in order to make that person back off the personal stuff? If I recall correctly, .......

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

If you think that the only ones who are being bullied are people who support the bastardization of Doom, you're dead wrong. They only reason I ever took a nasty tone with another poster for expressing a preference for a decision made in a comic book movie over another one is that the preference was accompanied by an argument that carried either big implications or simply outright insulted people of the opposing viewpoint. That's a preference followed by an opinion. There is a difference, Lightning. A preference is merely someone saying "I like this" or "I don't like this." An opinion goes into reasoning and value judgements. That's the difference I'm talking about. I was introduced to conformist bullies on this site long ago, and I decided I wasn't going to put up with it. Most of them aren't as knowledge or even as intelligent as me, and so I don't pretend otherwise. There are also people of inferior intelligence who insult others merely for preferring the changes over a faithful adaptation. Those people are very small in number and often get banned before I can even get my claws into them, so if you don't see me talking down to a lot of people who hold that paradigm, that's probably why. The truth is the truth, and bullying is bullying. No one gets a free pass, and if I've missed someone, then I've missed someone. It doesn't mean I support that kind of bullshi1t coming from people with a similar paradigm in these issues.

You want an example of someone who can civilly draw the line between preference and opinion and can express a liking of a movie product that does, in fact, have massive flaws in it, look at Hunter Rider. You no longer fit that bill, if you ever really did.

Can I share something with you?

Over the last year, I have gotten dozens of PMs from fans of Julian McMahon who lurk on this board and really want to get involved. But they refuse to. We've never seen them post Herr. You know why? Because they see someone every damn day get ripped for being excited about Julian's upcoming portrayal. Such ones are treated as if they are traitors to the cause or something.

Is that fair? How bad is it that lurkers can't get the nerve to get into our discussions because of some haughty-ass arrogant Doom-fans won't let them pass without blaszing them.

Like I said Herr, there is a laity on this thread and it needs to be eliminated. You speak of "preference" but it seems to me that only those of us with comic book knowledge have permission to have one.

 

[Herr Logan]

Well from this point you and Lightnin can handle your own buisness,i'm guessing neither of you need me to play a part in it,i just didn't like the way he was getting it from all sides.
As for my wording last night i was trying to make the point that if someone said "the movie doom is faithful to comic origin and character" i would be the first to say it was false,i did in my opening post in the other thread prior to the merger.so i do not go along with the idea that this is doom done faithfully and i also have said that it couldve been done faithfully,i even wrote a prologue showing how.My problem was with the attitude that a movie fan i.e Mrs Fantastic had no right to say that they respect the fact doom has been changed and that upsets some of the hardcore fans but she likes the new version better than the stuff she had read about the real doom.that somehow that opinion was worthless and invalid,so to me to say it is faithful is wrong but also to say that someone who likes movie doom better is somehow a moron is also wrong,I do agree this thread was a needles and inciting jab at the doom fans that was always going to cause trouble,Ive given my view of how i am gonna treat this as elseworlds doom(despite some depressing news from a couple of screenings) and i don't expect you or anyone else to follow me in that thinking but i also expect to be allowed to voice my choice without being attacked.You can rest assured after i see the movie i will be totally objective to all areas as i was in my Batman Begins review

Fair enough, Hunter. I wasn't trying to berate you, and I definitely respect your looking out for him. I just cast my vote as to how Lightning has been making himself a valid target in some ways. He is acting like a studio plant in many cases, but when it comes to arguments relating to his personal or professional life, that's unfair and uncalled for.

Did I respond to your "Batman Begins" review? Where did you post it? I forget if we discussed it or not, but I'm betting you liked it a lot and for a lot of the same reasons I did. I've seen that one three times, and that's by far the new champion of faithful and quality superhero adaptations, even though it has several massive flaws.

 

[Herr Logan]

No, I realize that info is out there. But I have followed many movies closely like this one. I followed both X-films, and Spider-Man 2. And I know that in many cases the novelizations, script drafts and other info are often way off the mark from the theatrical release. So I guess I am holding out hope that despite the premise of Dr. Doom on paper, that somehow Julian's performance will carry a different element. Do I really believe this will happen? (No.) But I am going to remain optimistic about it until I can truly judge it for myself.

And no, people weren't criticizing: They were whining Herr....and badly. Like...sheep bleating.

There is a stark difference between: "I think this adaptation of Doom is bad because of ______________________"

and

"Oh god, this is going to suck, how could they do this, this movie is going to have the worst movie villain ever, F*** Fox, Screw Tim Story, they are run by a$$holes, and I hate them all, and you're stupid for liking it!"



That's what I was getting sick of--there was no intelligent critiquing done there Herr--just b1tching for the sake of it. And when those same individuals started going off on others for embracing the good points we know of Movie Doom, I said, "that's it."

Is that part in bold an actual quote, or is that your own special translation? As I said, there are people who say things like that, and they're a small minority-- far smaller than the minority of fans who fervently dislike having good source material adapted into crap. If that actually is a real quote (and I'd have to see proof in order to accept it as such), then that's out of line. Again, that's not even close to the majority of criticism against this movie, and you're throwing the word "whining" over a much wider area than you're implying with that quote. Perhaps you do have a much more exact definition of "whining" than people like RedIsNotBlue and other such bullies, but I don't see proof of that in this thread lately. You'll understand if I'm skeptical of you, considering the majority of people who use the term "whining" are being unjust and repulsive in their behavior.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Fair enough, Hunter. I wasn't trying to berate you, and I definitely respect your looking out for him. I just cast my vote as to how Lightning has been making himself a valid target in some ways. He is acting like a studio plant in many cases, but when it comes to arguments relating to his personal or professional life, that's unfair and uncalled for.

Did I respond to your "Batman Begins" review? Where did you post it? I forget if we discussed it or not, but I'm betting you liked it a lot and for a lot of the same reasons I did. I've seen that one three times, and that's by far the new champion of faithful and quality superhero adaptations, even though it has several massive flaws.

i guess its where i come from coming out,basically where i live you stick by your friend so Cal has been a good friend to me beyond just the F4 debate and when i see a gang style mentality setting in i felt the need to get involved but i see things have settled.
the review thread moved at the speed of light but I think we both agreed that several of the fights were badly edited and all the excuses ppl were coming up with for why Nolan did them that way didn't ring true.
Your right i did enjoy the film and it did feel to me very like year one once they hit Gotham and i loved the stealth element and i even thought they stuck a couple of nice detective moments in,particualy when he was listening in on that conversation.
My main issues were over Scarecrow's motivations and the fact i wouldve liked more Gordon,i also didn't think the suit was that great as it looked cumbersome in many scenes IMO.But to me the good far outweighed the flaws

 

[Herr Logan]

I know we're moving at a gavillion miles a minuit right now, but Please reread my post Herr.Because in Actuality, that particular post was about the way he jumps to Fox's defense and has nothing to do with him claiming to be a model. I drew an analogy between Fox execs giving a rats azz about him the same way a model(female model) &quot;appreciates any one of us for defending their looks. I may have brought up the factor in a different post, but it was unrelated. In the other post I distinctly made it clear that if he's going to make personal statements about my acting like a beaten child who goes around &quot;chumming&quot; up to bullies, then I have every right to do the same in return. Sometimes I let it slide, other times, I respond. That's how I work, and if I get assaulted by flamers for doing so, then damn it, that's just a thorn I'll have to live with.
As for him claiming to be a model or a firefighter, I actually believe him. Granted, I've had doubts about him as being either of them, but 1) This is the internet, therefore, theres nothing weong with that kind of thinking and mentioning of it(just like you or anyone else here has every right to question whether or not I'm full of crap when I say anything about myself) 2) on the other side of that coin, I believe in innocent until proven guilty... However, when one such as himself takes the liberty to make claims about one's(namely myself) personal life, how is it not fair game to mention his personal life in return in order to make that person back off the personal stuff? If I recall correctly, .......

If I misread, I apologize. I just want to maintain a standard of decorum amongst us "goats," and in the last few days, we've certainly been given ample reason to be enraged and vindictive towards the "sheep." I feel we need to help keep each other in check during impassioned arguments without turning on each other, that's all. No offense meant, HOC.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Is that part in bold an actual quote, or is that your own special translation? As I said, there are people who say things like that, and they're a small minority-- far smaller than the minority of fans who fervently dislike having good source material adapted into crap. If that actually is a real quote (and I'd have to see proof in order to accept it as such), then that's out of line. Again, that's not even close to the majority of criticism against this movie, and you're throwing the word "whining" over a much wider area than you're implying with that quote. Perhaps you do have a much more exact definition of "whining" than people like RedIsNotBlue and other such bullies, but I don't see proof of that in this thread lately. You'll understand if I'm skeptical of you, considering the majority of people who use the term "whining" are being unjust and repulsive in their behavior.

It's an amalgam of several posts here and on other threads Herr.

And as far as using the term "whining" being unjust and repulsive, the same can be said for terms such as "conformist", and "studio shill" and "studio plant".

So play fair.

 

[Head>On<Collider]

you missed my point,he calls you a whiner > then you call him a conformist but the foxplant thing is both lame and as you well know the lowest blow

I don't think I missed your point at all Hunter... I understand the mentality of having the need to be a peace keeper among friends, but being one such active participant (a respectworthy one at that) requires an equally strong sence of justice as well, because, I don't think Lightning has been fair enough with his own statements to not warrant being named a plant. Low blow? Hey, call me a..... plant all you want as well, I don't get touchy about it. You know why? I have more maturity then you may think..... that's why.

 

[Herr Logan]

Can I share something with you?

Over the last year, I have gotten dozens of PMs from fans of Julian McMahon who lurk on this board and really want to get involved. But they refuse to. We've never seen them post Herr. You know why? Because they see someone every damn day get ripped for being excited about Julian's upcoming portrayal. Such ones are treated as if they are traitors to the cause or something.

Is that fair? How bad is it that lurkers can't get the nerve to get into our discussions because of some haughty-ass arrogant Doom-fans won't let them pass without blaszing them.

Like I said Herr, there is a laity on this thread and it needs to be eliminated. You speak of "preference" but it seems to me that only those of us with comic book knowledge have permission to have one.

I never blasted anyone for merely liking something or disliking something. It's a rule I have. As vicious as I am with others, you better believe I'm the same way with myself. If I have crossed that line, it was out of misunderstanding or possibly miswording. Call me on a mistake and I'll own up. Through practice, I make less and less mistakes like that, so you're not likely to find that kind of example in recent months.

Preference is untouchable. But the second you add a value judgement or reason behind it, you're in the jungle, or in court, or whatever metaphor you like best. The same goes for anyone who insults another just based on preference alone.

I don't know much about Julian McMahon, but I doubt I've never torn into anyone for being a fan of his or being excited that he was the one cast for the part. In fact, I don't even remember seeing any arguments by any regular posters saying anything about McMahon in particular. That still leaves the fact that the actor-- which is basically a tool meant to complete a given set of tasks-- is only given so much potential in a story by the hand that uses that tool. If people want to gush all over their favorite hearthrobs and whatnot, I don't care, but the second someone tells me that Movie!Doom is "better" than the real one, "more realistic," "less cheesy," and that us "whining fanboys" should just accept that, they get what they deserve. If anyone who would dare say such things ends up in tears and resigns from the board, so be it. If people are just act-fans with nothing to say about the story and so forth, then by all means, protect them from those that would attack them. Just be damn sure you know the difference.

I'm unsure of what you mean by "laity" here. I know what it means, but I don't understand how it fits in context. Please elucidate.

 

[Herr Logan]

i guess its where i come from coming out,basically where i live you stick by your friend so Cal has been a good friend to me beyond just the F4 debate and when i see a gang style mentality setting in i felt the need to get involved but i see things have settled.
the review thread moved at the speed of light but I think we both agreed that several of the fights were badly edited and all the excuses ppl were coming up with for why Nolan did them that way didn't ring true.
Your right i did enjoy the film and it did feel to me very like year one once they hit Gotham and i loved the stealth element and i even thought they stuck a couple of nice detective moments in,particualy when he was listening in on that conversation.
My main issues were over Scarecrow's motivations and the fact i wouldve liked more Gordon,i also didn't think the suit was that great as it looked cumbersome in many scenes IMO.But to me the good far outweighed the flaws

People should stick up for their friends regardless of where they come from. As long as their friends are doing the right thing, anyway.

If you have a link to your review, I'd like to read it sometime.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I don't think I missed your point at all Hunter... I understand the mentality of having the need to be a peace keeper among friends, but being one such active participant (a respectworthy one at that) requires an equally strong sence of justice as well, because, I don't think Lightning has been fair enough with his own statements to not warrant being named a plant. Low blow? Hey, call me a..... plant all you want as well, I don't get touchy about it. You know why? I have more maturity then you may think..... that's why.

i don't particualy want to call you anything my WB plant joke was just that,a joke i really don't think any of us in this thread are plants...to much imagination in here
Anyway Lightnin made the whining insult and it seems as if he sticks by that so ill back away and let you 2 deal,but there is also merit to his point of the off hand and disrespectful way in which movie fans are treat over their Doom views and also notice how when it gets like this there is only me and Cal that go where angels fear to tread,It is correct what Herr says about the fact the attacks can go both ways and that is seen a few posts back from comicbook man(i think) but there is also a case of guilty by assosiation,as in some fans who are respectful of the comic fan but prefer the movie version being shot with the same ammo's as the disrespectfull types who attack you guys as "comic fanboy purists" point being each case needs to be singular and judged on its own merits of view delivery not on the fact they like movie doom

 

[Herr Logan]

It's an amalgam of several posts here and on other threads Herr.

And as far as using the term "whining" being unjust and repulsive, the same can be said for terms such as "conformist", and "studio shill" and "studio plant".

So play fair.

I don't think there's any question that "conformist" is the proper term to use for the kind of ignorant herd-animal mentality I see here every day. "Studio shill" and "studio plant" should probably be considered more carefully before being used. That's a good point.

 

[Head>On<Collider]

If I misread, I apologize. I just want to maintain a standard of decorum amongst us "goats," and in the last few days, we've certainly been given ample reason to be enraged and vindictive towards the "sheep." I feel we need to help keep each other in check during impassioned arguments without turning on each other, that's all. No offense meant, HOC.

Well, the truth is that I really mean no offense to anyone here outside of calling them out on their BS. It's just that when I see certain people see no problem with doing the very things they accuse others of doing while treating this public forum as though it's some kind of country club that that person runs, I'm left with a decision.... either keep silent, or speak up. Maybe there are better ways of doing so, and for lack of coming up with a better way, I'll apologize as well, but sometimes to me, doing nothing is a lot worse than keeping silent. The fact that I hang around here in the F4 boards shows my own type of loyalty to the F4, right? Maybe it's not the kind that certain people want around here, but as long as I have respect for others here.....

For instance, first, when a "goat" is outnumbered, then their analysis is outnumbered, therefore, their analysis doesn't hold water, but then, when the sheep are outnumbered then the goats are being unfair right? That's the kind of stuff I can't stand, and it's unfair for these people to put anyone in a position to either sit and take it, or speak up and get beraided for doing so, and we're supposed to be on better behavior? Well the truth is, yes. If I'm out of line calling anyone anything no matter how much they're begging for it, it's the best way to handle it... I'm glad I have friends like you around to keep me in check in case I really, truely need to be held in check.... and yes, it does matter very much who it is keeping me in check, because certain individuals have earned that right in my book.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Can I share something with you?

Over the last year, I have gotten dozens of PMs from fans of Julian McMahon who lurk on this board and really want to get involved. But they refuse to. We've never seen them post Herr. You know why? Because they see someone every damn day get ripped for being excited about Julian's upcoming portrayal. Such ones are treated as if they are traitors to the cause or something.

Is that fair? How bad is it that lurkers can't get the nerve to get into our discussions because of some haughty-ass arrogant Doom-fans won't let them pass without blaszing them.

Like I said Herr, there is a laity on this thread and it needs to be eliminated. You speak of "preference" but it seems to me that only those of us with comic book knowledge have permission to have one.

Let's not lay anyone's lack of a backbone or lack of the ability to logically represent their opinions at the feet of any of the posters here.

Nevertheless, if some poster's vitriolic diatribes have resulted in less "super neato sunshine junkie bubblegum" posts.... then I just want to thank those responsible!

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I don't think I missed your point at all Hunter... I understand the mentality of having the need to be a peace keeper among friends, but being one such active participant (a respectworthy one at that) requires an equally strong sence of justice as well, because, I don't think Lightning has been fair enough with his own statements to not warrant being named a plant. Low blow? Hey, call me a..... plant all you want as well, I don't get touchy about it. You know why? I have more maturity then you may think..... that's why.

Maturity? Man please. This is what happened (as usual). You saw Mr. Wetgorilla quote me 10x in a row, and the famed Herr Logan disputing my posts. So since you can't forge an attack on your own, what do you do? The same thing you do every other damn time--you wait and then bandwagon. Lo and behold, in the midst of the battle, here you come egging on with this instigating "Naa-Na-Na-Naaa You're A Studio Plant too! So there!!!"

And that's your definition of maturity huh?



Do you even know what a studio plant is?? They rarely posts on forums at all and they prefer to be low-key. They observe and then they report their findings to the studio. Now, to label a fan as a "plant" is to imply that person is here for ulterior motives and that such ones do not truly care about this comic or the film beyond getting a paycheck. That said, to callme the same is both an insult to my intelligence and to me as a fan.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Let's not lay anyone's lack of a backbone or lack of the ability to logically represent their opinions at the feet of any of the posters here.

No, VDX.

I've seen some offer logical opinions...and be blasted for doing so. What's more, the ones doing the blasting come from the angle of "Well, you're only here because of the actor--you don't really know/care about the character of Doom." Then they proceed to pitch a million examples from the source material as to how this adaptation fails and proves the other fan's point moot. How does a casual fan compete with that?

So the blame is placed where it needs to be. We are the ones who are intolerant.

 

[Herr Logan]

Well, the truth is that I really mean no offense to anyone here outside of calling them out on their BS. It's just that when I see certain people see no problem with doing the very things they accuse others of doing while treating this public forum as though it's some kind of country club that that person runs, I'm left with a decision.... either keep silent, or speak up. Maybe there are better ways of doing so, and for lack of coming up with a better way, I'll apologize as well, but sometimes to me, doing nothing is a lot worse than keeping silent. The fact that I hang around here in the F4 boards shows my own type of loyalty to the F4, right? Maybe it's not the kind that certain people want around here, but as long as I have respect for others here.....

I definitely agree that it's better to speak up than keep silent. I agree with your reasons for doing so. I may have spoken up too soon with what I said before, but I just wanted to reduce the chance of nasty escalation. Maybe there was prior context between you and Lightning (like I said, I haven't read everything in this bloated thread very closely in the past few days), I just was worried that even if it was, someone else may take it as an excuse to up the ante. You know what I mean?

 

[Head>On<Collider]

i don't particualy want to call you anything my WB plant joke was just that,a joke i really don't think any of us in this thread are plants...to much imagination in here
Anyway Lightnin made the whining insult and it seems as if he sticks by that so ill back away and let you 2 deal,but there is also merit to his point of the off hand and disrespectful way in which movie fans are treat over their Doom views and also notice how when it gets like this there is only me and Cal that go where angels fear to tread,It is correct what Herr says about the fact the attacks can go both ways and that is seen a few posts back from comicbook man(i think) but there is also a case of guilty by assosiation,as in some fans who are respectful of the comic fan but prefer the movie version being shot with the same ammo's as the disrespectfull types who attack you guys as "comic fanboy purists" point being each case needs to be singular and judged on its own merits of view delivery not on the fact they like movie doom

I don't hink anyone around here is a plant either, but certain people really oughta be. With the amount of legal tender Fox studio is worth, it's only fair that they shell out some of that "love" over to their loyal volunteers here.
I think certain individuals here are owed a good deal of cash at this point, if we were all to add up the amount of hours that has been spent sticking up for Fox and Marvel combined, and multiply it by let's say $25-$30 an hour.....we're tallking about seriouse money. Hell, if I were in such a position, I'd demand it