I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[c101380]

Man, even the lame ash Roger Corman movie had a better background for Victor...

 

[Shadow_Crawler]

Only it was still pretty horrible.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Only it was still pretty horrible.

But at least somewhat accurate.
Which is his point. I mean, if a no-talent like Corman can understand Doom, why can't Fox and their "talented " screenwriters, which are paid a fortune for those superhero script, get it ???

 

[Uxmfan425]

But at least somewhat accurate.
Which is his point. I mean, if a no-talent like Corman can understand Doom, why can't Fox and their "talented " screenwriters, which are paid a fortune for those superhero script, get it ???

Did you even SEE the 94 FF? Okay, so the Doom was an exact drag out of the comic books... but he was *****ING WEAK. He got beaten by Reed in three punches in the very end battle. He was the most hackneyed evil villain to ever grace the silver screen. He was cheesy enough to make a lactose intolerant hurt! THIS movie is trying to depart from that in the BEST way possible.

How else would you encompass Doom's might, intelligence, egocentrism, power, rage, and general mutha *****ing pimpness? How do you do that in a film that's supposed to take place in this day and age without fudging a few facts from the happy-go-lucky 60's?

Okay, yeah, so they got the ORIGIN right in the Corman flick... AND IT WAS LAME. So much hate doesn't come from an incident like that to any self-respecting man these days... especially not one so self-respecting as DOOM. There needs to be some SERIOUS ego torture here. Reed needs to hit Doom in ways beyond his appearence. They need to capture 40 years of building jealousy in a mere two hours and NOT over do it.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Did you even SEE the 94 FF? Okay, so the Doom was an exact drag out of the comic books... but he was *****ING WEAK. He got beaten by Reed in three punches in the very end battle. He was the most hackneyed evil villain to ever grace the silver screen. He was cheesy enough to make a lactose intolerant hurt! THIS movie is trying to depart from that in the BEST way possible.

How else would you encompass Doom's might, intelligence, egocentrism, power, rage, and general mutha *****ing pimpness? How do you do that in a film that's supposed to take place in this day and age without fudging a few facts from the happy-go-lucky 60's?

What's that got to do with Corman at least having respect to the character ? I never said anything about quality (heck, I even said "no-talent"). Um, Doom was out of his time in the 60's (I mean, he was dressing like a monarch out of the 14 centuary). He'd still be out of time. That's not what made Doom who he ****ing was.

And NEVER, EVER AGAIN, blast Doom's character and say he can't be done "faithfully and well" by pointing us to Corman's movie... NEVER again. You know Corman's movie sucked beyond belief, in EVERY aspect. No matter how great Doom's character is, in the hand of Corman, it means ****.
Give the Doom from the comics to some talented filmakers, and there's no doubt magic could be made on screen.

 

[Uxmfan425]

What's that got to do with Corman at least having respect to the character ? I never said anything about quality (heck, I even said "no-talent"). Um, Doom was out of his time in the 60's (I mean, he was dressing like a monarch out of the 14 centuary). He'd still be out of time. That's not what made Doom who he ****ing was.

And NEVER, EVER AGAIN, blast Doom's character and say he can't be done "faithfully and well" by pointing us to Corman's movie... NEVER again. You know Corman's movie sucked beyond belief, in EVERY aspect. No matter how great Doom's character is, in the hand of Corman, it means ****.
Give the Doom from the comics to some talented filmakers, and there's no doubt magic could be made on screen.

No doubt it can be done. But if you want it to be completely faithful in every aspect, you're gonna get Corman's Doom. Changing a few details in order to bring the character's awesomeness to the screen is what the good writers do. They know which parts need to be manipulated in the right ways... and though your die hard fanboy logic can't accept it, this is the most rational direction to take it. What presence in current society will a general public link with evil, vicious, selfish ruthlessness? Corporate America.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Okay, yeah, so they got the ORIGIN right in the Corman flick... AND IT WAS LAME.

Now THAT was stupid. The FF were LAME. Does that make the FF characters LAME ? Your argument is flaw beyond belief.

So much hate doesn't come from an incident like that to any self-respecting man these days...

It seems you know nothing of Doom. You DO know Doom things himself PERFECT ? He probably knows Reed had nothing to do with his "disfigurement". But his HUGE ego makes it impossible for him to envision himself capable of having performed such an error. And so he decided to blame Richard. How the **** does that make him out of the 60's ??? It makes him a guy with a GIANT EGO. It as nothing to do with the 60s or the present for that matter...

especially not one so self-respecting as DOOM. There needs to be some SERIOUS ego torture here. Reed needs to hit Doom in ways beyond his appearence. They need to capture 40 years of building jealousy in a mere two hours and NOT over do it.

Doom hit himself in "ways beyond his appearence". He proved he wasn't perfect, which, for him, is worse than anything. Read some comics next time before blasting Doom's character. And then, maybe ONLY then, will you see why Doom's such a great character.

 

[Uxmfan425]

I never blasted Doom's character. I LOVE Doom. I blasted the Doom in Corman's movie, because he was REDICULOUSLY FOOLISH compared to the Doom I know and love.

And the way that movie was written, he came across as a two bit pretty criminal compared to what is going on in this movie. The details may not be exactly true to the source material, but in this case, I think the ends justify the means.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I never blasted Doom's character. I LOVE Doom. I blasted the Doom in Corman's movie, because he was REDICULOUSLY FOOLISH compared to the Doom I know and love.

And the way that movie was written, he came across as a two bit pretty criminal compared to what is going on in this movie. The details may not be exactly true to the source material, but in this case, I think the ends justify the means.

Ok, but my point was "how can you justify not making a faithful Doom by looking at Corman's horrible FF movie "?

I mean, no matter WHAT Corman would have done, it would have suck. So, how could a faithful Doom by Corman prove to you it could work or not ? What he does SUCKS, no matter what!

Edit: And you already said it yourself, he was "REDICULOUSLY FOOLISH compared to the Doom I know and love". So how can you take this Doom version to dare say that a faithful Doom wouldn't work ? When you know all to well he was badly portrayed. All Corman got right, was his origin. The rest, he.. um, I don't have any words to describe Corman's abomination here.

 

[Uxmfan425]

I can justify not making an ENTIRELY TO EVERY MINUTE DETAIL Doom by looking at Corman's film because that's what he did. The biggest things you're complaining about are expemplified in that Doom, and no matter what it was going to turn out badly. Unless you have 40 years to build up this AWESOME EVIL BAD ash, starting in a day and age where taking over a country with a clone robot of some crappy ruler in an eastern European country as a result of some guy in college accidentally scaring your face seemed logical, it can't turn out well. It's not feasable. No matter how good the writer is, A MASS GENERAL AUDIENCE is gonna look at it and laugh their asses off... which is something I would NEVER want to happen to Doom. Ergo, some points of his history MUST BE CHANGED. As long as he's still vain, merciless, conniving mastermind, he's being faithful to the comics in the most important way. Little factors like, how he got so angry, aren't important when they're irrelevent in today's society.

 

[BloodsuckaHunta]

Dr. Doom will actually reveal himself to have obtained the Guyver unit.
Hence the "Bio-Boosted-Armor"...

I really feel that Marvel movies take great pains to get the hero characters pretty acurate visually, but the villains are a different batch.

 

[Obi-Ron]

This thread title made me think of Jerry Seinfeld's old stand-up bits.

"Airline food...what's up with that?
And what is the deal with Doctor Doom?"

 

[hame4479]

I can justify not making an ENTIRELY TO EVERY MINUTE DETAIL Doom by looking at Corman's film because that's what he did. The biggest things you're complaining about are expemplified in that Doom, and no matter what it was going to turn out badly. Unless you have 40 years to build up this AWESOME EVIL BAD ash, starting in a day and age where taking over a country with a clone robot of some crappy ruler in an eastern European country as a result of some guy in college accidentally scaring your face seemed logical, it can't turn out well. It's not feasable. No matter how good the writer is, A MASS GENERAL AUDIENCE is gonna look at it and laugh their asses off... which is something I would NEVER want to happen to Doom. Ergo, some points of his history MUST BE CHANGED. As long as he's still vain, merciless, conniving mastermind, he's being faithful to the comics in the most important way. Little factors like, how he got so angry, aren't important when they're irrelevent in today's society.

He is right everyone would point and laugh. I mean it would be awesome but in todays world that just isnt a very interesting villian to the general audience. I could see it now, why did he go crazy because he scarred his face? that question would be asked a thousand times

 

[snazzy J]

That would certainly make sense, and it'd be really cool to see in the movie. The question I have is in what order should all these plot details be revealed, because there should be a mystery at first as to why the events are happening the way they are.

I was thinking that his plan would be hinted at and we would know something was going on, but we wouldn't actually find out until near the end. Like, maybe he could disappear for awhile on the space station before the accident. The Four could get suspicious, but then the accident occurs and they forget for the time being. We would see him hit by an explosion during the accident, his escape back to Earth, and his return to his headquarters (not the main building, his secret lair-type place, like his production facility or whatever). We still wouldn't find out his real scheme, but we might hear him say, "The operation will go forward as planned," or something like that to his faithful manservant, Boris. Then, in the third act, we would finally learn exactly what's up as the movie nears it's climax.

Also, it occurs to me that this approach would work best if the movie focused on Doom rather than the Fantastic Four. So there has to be a way to tie Doom's suplot into what the FF are going through. For instance, when Doom finds out what happens to Richards and the rest, how does he react? How does he see them fitting into his scheme? Does he want to rub them out because they're an unknown variable he hadn't planned on? Does he decide to factor them into his scheme and manipulate them like chess pieces? I'm asking because I haven't read the Frost draft (somedays I feel like the only person on this board who hasn't), and I'm genuinely curious as to how Doom ties into the Fantastic Four's storyarc. Just as heroes are judged by villains, so are villains defined by how well they tie into the heroes. Even the best villain in history is going to be awkward in a story that doesn't tie him in well with the direction the heroes are going in.

Well he would develop his enourmous hatred for Reed after the whole scarring thing, so I think killing them would be his final goal, but I like your idea of manipulating them first. He could decide to use them as a distraction for the world until he's ready to complete his plot and destroy them in one fell swoop. I don't think we have to worry too much about how he ties into their storyarc, as he is the reason they were able to be there and get their powers in the first place and he will be their first real test as superheroes.

As far as his character arc goes, there's a couple things I'd like to see. First, he'd be furious about his face and that would lead to a consuming hatred of Reed and, by extension, the Four, but revenge wouldn't surpass his first priority: taking control of Latveria (though it would come pretty close). Also, after the accident, his face would always be hidden so that we'd never see his scars, until he reveals himself in the third act. We would finally get a glimpse of the extent of the scarring at the same time as the Four and we would discover that it was actually just a tiny scratch on his cheek. But no sooner than we are shown this, he finally puts on his still-scalding-hot mask, destroying his face.

Also, if you want a copy of the Frost draft, just PM me your email.

Anyway, I happened to like this idea, snazzy, and I think this is a great thread for brainstorming ideas. Even if nothing ever comes of these ideas because the movie does something else, it's still fun to think about.

Yep, it can't hurt to come up with a storyline of our own.

 

[snazzy J]

And while we're talking about my outline, there are definitely some pretty big flaws in there. One is that it's awfully convenient for Doom to already have his armor already made. That one's not too big, but it seems a bit coincidental. The really big plot error is that, if he's got this big weapon thing up in the sky, why is he only taking Latveria? Wouldn't he want more, like, say, the world? If you can come up with ways to explain around these, I'd love to hear them.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I can justify not making an ENTIRELY TO EVERY MINUTE DETAIL Doom by looking at Corman's film because that's what he did. The biggest things you're complaining about are expemplified in that Doom, and no matter what it was going to turn out badly. Unless you have 40 years to build up this AWESOME EVIL BAD ash, starting in a day and age where taking over a country with a clone robot of some crappy ruler in an eastern European country as a result of some guy in college accidentally scaring your face seemed logical, it can't turn out well. It's not feasable. No matter how good the writer is, A MASS GENERAL AUDIENCE is gonna look at it and laugh their asses off... which is something I would NEVER want to happen to Doom. Ergo, some points of his history MUST BE CHANGED. As long as he's still vain, merciless, conniving mastermind, he's being faithful to the comics in the most important way. Little factors like, how he got so angry, aren't important when they're irrelevent in today's society.

Sorry, but I see a flaw here.
Why ? Because Doom works in the comics today! Which destroy your point. Doom has evolve from day one to today. But his origin is still the same, and it works in today's comics. And if it works in today's comics, (which means people like me and you can read the comic without finding it ridiculous whatsoever), then it could work in a new movie. Sure, if you adapt the character's attitude from the 60's completly, it wouldn't work (but then again, same thing with ANY character from the 60's, and especially the FF). But the way the characters have evolved ? bad place yes.

 

[Sardaukar]

The really big plot error is that, if he's got this big weapon thing up in the sky, why is he only taking Latveria? Wouldn't he want more, like, say, the world? If you can come up with ways to explain around these, I'd love to hear them.

For the armor, Doom could be portrayed as a genius of robotics and weapons tech at the beginning of the movie. It therefore wouldn't be a surprise to the audience if he just quickly adapts all that to a personal battlesuit later on.

Doom would be portrayed in the first movie as really just a guy who wants to help his people.

Once he starts his rule in Latveria (in the sequel?), he'll become more power hungry and come to believe that the paradise he has achieved in his country can be brought to the world, only through him.

What I like about a nuclear device plot is that there's no way he could use nukes to take back Latveria if he doesn't want it destroyed. He may have nukes, but he doesn't have the manpower to take Latveria by force, so he's forced to threaten the UN to take it back for him.

That's why even though he fails to take Latveria by force in the first movie, he takes his time and uses stealth and guile to take it maybe in the beginning of the second movie.

 

[Kurosawa]

He is right everyone would point and laugh. I mean it would be awesome but in todays world that just isnt a very interesting villian to the general audience. I could see it now, why did he go crazy because he scarred his face? that question would be asked a thousand times

Here is proof that you don't understand Doom one bit.

Doom is NOT crazy. That's one of the main things that makes Doom superior to most other comic villians. Doom is not insane in the least. He's arrogant, fascistic and vain, but he is not insane by any stretch of the imagination.

John Byrne established Doom as a complete bad-ash with a full background in 8 pages of comic story that would last 10 minutes max on screen if adapted word-for-word. So the "they don't have time" excuse is lame and false.

The fact is, they don't have the imagination, the respect for comics, or the balls to use a faithful Doom. That's why they've pulled the corporate eurotrash jealous boyfriend loser cliché out of the box and tried to pass it off as Doom, the greatest villian in the history of comics.

They can go to bad place.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Here is proof that you don't understand Doom one bit.

Doom is NOT crazy. That's one of the main things that makes Doom superior to most other comic villians. Doom is not insane in the least. He's arrogant, fascistic and vain, but he is not insane by any stretch of the imagination.

John Byrne established Doom as a complete bad-ash with a full background in 8 pages of comic story that would last 10 minutes max on screen if adapted word-for-word. So the "they don't have time" excuse is lame and false.

The fact is, they don't have the imagination, the respect for comics, or the balls to use a faithful Doom. That's why they've pulled the corporate eurotrash jealous boyfriend loser cliché out of the box and tried to pass it off as Doom, the greatest villian in the history of comics.

They can go to bad place.

And then burn and be sodomize.

 

[Kurosawa]

Lol!

 

[Cool_Jerk]

Thank you, Kurosawa. Saved me the energy typing the exact same thing.

 

[snazzy J]

For the armor, Doom could be portrayed as a genius of robotics and weapons tech at the beginning of the movie. It therefore wouldn't be a surprise to the audience if he just quickly adapts all that to a personal battlesuit later on.

Doom would be portrayed in the first movie as really just a guy who wants to help his people.

Once he starts his rule in Latveria (in the sequel?), he'll become more power hungry and come to believe that the paradise he has achieved in his country can be brought to the world, only through him.

What I like about a nuclear device plot is that there's no way he could use nukes to take back Latveria if he doesn't want it destroyed. He may have nukes, but he doesn't have the manpower to take Latveria by force, so he's forced to threaten the UN to take it back for him.

That's why even though he fails to take Latveria by force in the first movie, he takes his time and uses stealth and guile to take it maybe in the beginning of the second movie.

Now we're really getting somewhere. Regarding the armor, that's good thinking there. It could be established that he's an expert in that field and when the Four arrive on the scene with their powers, he'll realize that he needs a way to balance the scales. I guess it wouldn't be too realistic for him to cook up the armor in a relatively short period of time.

Also, that's a pretty good explanation of why he only wants Latveria. As long as it's shown that the only thing he really cares about is the Latverian people and that the world is of no concern to him, it would make sense. His thirst for world domination could come later on down the road, once he's already an established dictator.

 

[homestarrunner]

What if Doom wasn't on the ship?? Say reed makes some discovery about the rays and how they affect the universe. Not to be outdone since doom thinks his genius is superior, creates an expierement of his own. Something goes horibly wrong and his body is left scared and burned. Seeing himself as a faliure doom uses the armor to hide the mistake that was victor von doom, thus is born the newly formed man that is the good doctor. To rise out of the shadow that was victor and become the leader he was born to be.

 

[GoblinScrier]

I love all these ideas that I am reading ! would be pleased ! Furthermore, he wishes you all to be hired as his private writers ! sends bots to eliminate incompetent writers at Fox and hires fans ! Kurosawa, thesaintofkille, and myself will be in charge to make sure that we all do the Master proud !

Fox, a rare opportunity is here to make the most memorable villain in the history of comics a memorable villain for the screen ! I have already accepted certain facts but you can fix the rest !

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

One of my main beef with Doom's situation is that many people say (to defend Fox's horrendous decision) that explaining Doom's origin would be too long for the first movie. I disgress. Why ? Because you simply do not need to explain it all in details.
If Fox had any respect for Doom, they could have opted to have a Victor which is already King and powerful, already scarred and in his unique armor. We could later on learn (through one of Reed's tales) the overall story of the good doctor. Why Fox see the needs to tell in details Doom's story AND mix it with the FF's origin is beyond me, especially since they could even more easily make his story shrouded in mystery.

When we first met Vader in A new hope, we didn't know his full background (actually, we knew nearly nothing). Later on, in the trilogy, we learned more. BUT, that technique only served to renforced how majestic he was on screen.
Same could be applied to Doom. He could ALREADY be the all powerful Doom we all know and love in the beginning of the movie, just like he had been scarred years before the FF were ever change by cosmic rays in the comics.

Imagine the audience being threated to a character such as Doom.

One thing's for sure, they sure as **** would want to learn more about him and how he came to be. Which might be explain later on in the first movie, and even more in the inevitable sequels. Doom's character is so great that people would salivate everytime they would learn one more tidbit about his origin and his many fantastic voyages.

Doom is THAT great of a character. Why mess with such potential ?