I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[Sardaukar]

1.) Tim Story did not write the script--he has no credit there. Now he IS responsible for adding many of the nuances we'll see i.e. The Yancey Street gang, H.E.R.B.I.E (if it makes the final cut), the Fantasticar, and many other items. And sorry, but unless he's crammed in all of that comic reading in the last few months, his claim to read/collected FF since he was age 11 comes through loud and clear in his interviews. He and his team also fought for a lot of the changes that we've seen since January.

Yeah, I agree. FOX loves to screw with movies. They did it with I, ROBOT and pissed Alex Proyas off. They did it with X1 and X2 and finally succeeded in pissing Bryan Singer off.

I don't blame Story. He's not the one in control. And why should he care about remaining true to Doom's character? Keeping the studio happy should be more important to him than keeping fans happy...for his sake, anyway.

Actually, I blame Marvel most of all. It's their job to speak up when their own characters are getting screwed with. I mean, what the hell would a FOX executive really know about Doom, anyway? Obviously, Marvel didn't give a damn in this case. They're more interested in the bottom line.

Whatever.

 

[wetgorilla]

I don't blame Story. He's not the one in control. And why should he care about remaining true to Doom's character? Keeping the studio happy should be more important to him than keeping fans happy...for his sake, anyway.

You're wrong here (Just like Lightnin) and by repositioning 100% of the blame onto nameless Fox executives you're allowing those accountable for this mockery to go without having to answer for their f***-U*! If either one of you spent an substantial time in the entertainment industry in and around Hollywood you would understand the FULL role a feature-film director is given. The job description includes retooling the script during production. A director isn't at the mercy of the script like a made-for-television movie is; rather the screenwriter's work is at the mercy of the director.

For some reason a few of you on this thread appear to protect Story without any knowledge of the film industry at all. The only intelligent defense that has been made is the underlined comment above.

Some directors want to kiss ass and will go to lengths in an attempt to build a repoire with their producers (who often give them their studio work). As a director, Story has a voice and obligation to stand up against the script and ask for a rewrite.

Now, I'm not saying Story won't produce a cool movie (cinematically) - I know he's never been given the chance and hell, he might be very talented. I can't see what's inside of him. But, from the evidence we do have - he has compromised the characters and storyline of this production. Period.

Saint & Wet, I suggest you pick up the "Making Of The Movie" and read it.

I've read Story's comments/excuses and will only take them as far as he stated them. I lived and worked in and around the film industry during my twenties while in Los Angeles. I know the authority and previlages available to feature-film directors. They're not the powerless creatives trying to put out excellent work only to be shut down by executives. Hollywood is a two-way street!

Wetgorilla

 

[Dragon]

You're wrong here (Just like Lightnin) and by repositioning 100% of the blame onto nameless Fox executives you're allowing those accountable for this mockery to go without having to answer for their f***-U*! If either one of you spent an substantial time in the entertainment industry in and around Hollywood you would understand the FULL role a feature-film director is given. The job description includes retooling the script during production. A director isn't at the mercy of the script like a made-for-television movie is; rather the screenwriter's work is at the mercy of the director.

For some reason a few of you on this thread appear to protect Story without any knowledge of the film industry at all. The only intelligent defense that has been made is the underlined comment above.

Some directors want to kiss ass and will go to lengths in an attempt to build a repoire with their producers (who often give them their studio work). As a director, Story has a voice and obligation to stand up against the script and ask for a rewrite.

Now, I'm not saying Story won't produce a cool movie (cinematically) - I know he's never been given the chance and hell, he might be very talented. I can't see what's inside of him. But, from the evidence we do have - he has compromised the characters and storyline of this production. Period.



I've read Story's comments/excuses and will only take them as far as he stated them. I lived and worked in and around the film industry during my twenties while in Los Angeles. I know the authority and previlages available to feature-film directors. They're not the powerless creatives trying to put out excellent work only to be shut down by executives. Hollywood is a two-way street!

Wetgorilla

Agreed Wet.

You don't get hired on a project like this only to be handed a script and told to do the studio's bidding. If Story had come to the studio and Marvel with an effective re-write true to the source material they'd have gone along. Only serious budget restrictions would cause a veto.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Well... they are pretty damn cool, I admit.

I just hate the principal of the thing, you know?

i undersand im just a trailerholic so i let it slide

 

[Hunter Rider]

TheSaintofKillers, I'm as angry as you are about what those lying weasels have done to Dr. Doom, but I have to draw the line at comparing it to rape. That's not a word, image or idea to be tossed around lightly. I'm as sick a bastard as any other, but this isn't funny. If not for the ladies, then for the sake of me and my delicate sensitivities (more accurately, the unspeakable rage that wells up within me when such horrors are mentioned), don't throw that word around like that. While not nearly as reprehensible, the effect is similar to when a person falsely accuses someone else of rape or if a rape victim is denied justice; it makes the word less powerful, and therefore the thing itself becomes more tolerable to society. Please don't perpetuate that trend.

Great post,I agree 100%

 

[Kelly]

Don't you tell me how to enjoy movie clips of enormous primates, woman!

Yes'm.

lmao...........OOOhhhhh i'm sorry i shouldn't be laughing......*puts on serious face*........

 

[Herr Logan]

Edit: Life goes on. Unfortunately.

 

[Herr Logan]

lmao...........OOOhhhhh i'm sorry i shouldn't be laughing......*puts on serious face*........

Don't stop on my account, darlin'.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Good to hear. I don't lack a sense of humor, but I think there have to be limits when it comes to public exchanges with people you don't know. We've already seen that this thread is the kind that attracts ignorant children (one of whom apparently got banned quick), and it's the children most of all that shouldn't be desensitized to the subject of rape through inappropriate references and comparisons.

exactly,the violation of a woman by a man is in no way comparable to the changing of a comic characters origin,i think the term bastardization is the best adjective in this instince

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

exactly,the violation of a woman by a man is in no way comparable to the changing of a comic characters origin,i think the term bastardization is the best adjective in this instince

Actually, my exemple was with two men.

Heh, anyway, sorry about that. Actually, i've got a sense of deja vu here. I made a comment not that far away some months ago, and I think it was BOTH Albafan AND Herr that asked me to not bring such things in here. And I just did again.

Stupid me. Sorry about that, fellows. I'd go and change those posts, but you did quote me, though.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Although, while I watched your movie....I had to admit to myself, your director created a very strong sense of suspense and cinematic tension by not revealing too much. I particularly liked how the girl and other characters were half-hidden in shadows most of the time. The short really had no direction and relied upon shock images a little too much. I do understand it was just a 4-minute reel and as much theatrics had to be squeezed in.

Your performance was .....uh....entertaining!

Wetgorilla

Actually, i'm the director.
I consider knowing horror much better than most of the human being on this tiny planet, and i'm going to prove it in the coming months. Oh, and it was never supposed to be anything less or more than an essay at squeezed images. It was more of a little praticed about what I could do, or couldn't.

Still, thanks, gorilla.

(oh, and as for the clown, I just couldn't get an actor to convey what I wanted, and so I said **** it, i'll go and do it. I'm no actor, but it is the director's job (and the director only) to make it the best he can.)

Actually, when I look at Story, I can't find excuses for him. I was able to make every images I had in my mind, even if I had nearly no support aside from my own will to create. While director's visions might be altered in a production, they should always take the blame, no matter what.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Anyways...great job, Saint!

You have confirmed my worst fears...

I mean, how hard is it to make movie Doom at least as smart as Reed?

How can anyone actually defend such a basic change in Doom's character?

Even if I agreed (which I don't) that CEO Doom was necessary, that organic armor was necessary, that the love triangle was necessary...

...why is it also necessary to dumb the character down, intelligence-wise?

It just makes no sense to me.

There's no reason to dumbing down his character's genius. That was the last atrocity I could take, really. Every changes they made was for the worst, imo. BUT, even if I absolutely hate those changes, at least they could maybe be justified by money. I guess. But dumbing down his character,s intelligence can only be justified by people who want to piss on Doom's character the more they can. Not by money! Not at all!

There's NO reasons for THAT! None. Making him more intelligent, or at least, just as much as Reed, wouldn't have cost them more money. Or scared the audience. No ramifications, except having the core of Doom on the big screen. But then again, that would have gone against what they wanted: Something entierely different from Doom.

 

[Herr Logan]

exactly,the violation of a woman by a man is in no way comparable to the changing of a comic characters origin,i think the term bastardization is the best adjective in this instince

Exactly. I believe dissenting "fanboys" and "nitpickers" like myself can stand our ground and put conformist bullies in their place without resorting to tasteless, disproportionate metaphors. Hell, there are plenty of insidious real-world behaviors that are perfectly appropriate comparisons to what they've done with these characters, as well as the behavior surrounding them-- the reactions to them. It basically boils down to politics, propaganda, and the way citizens tear each other apart while defending or denouncing decisions made my lying opportunists in positions of power. That's not the same as violent crime on a personal level, even metaphorically speaking.

 

[Herr Logan]

Actually, my exemple was with two men.

Heh, anyway, sorry about that. Actually, i've got a sense of deja vu here. I made a comment not that far away some months ago, and I think it was BOTH Albafan AND Herr that asked me to not bring such things in here. And I just did again.

Stupid me. Sorry about that, fellows. I'd go and change those posts, but you did quote me, though.

I appreciate that, man. You're such a saint.

Dammit, I did quote you, didn't I? I'll go change my posts now.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I appreciate that, man. You're such a saint.

Dammit, I did quote you, didn't I? I'll go change my posts now.

Changed mine, your turn.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

What's your definition of 'open minded opinion'. Let me guess....an opinion that isn't an opinion at all? Maybe one that is devoid of any mental posture? Hell, Saint stated his position, gave reasons for such a position, and also provided examples from which he based his conclusions. So, where are you coming from with this statement?

I never said Saint didn't give his opinion. I just said everything I have seen him type about Doom has seemed purely negative and I don't feel the same as him. With Lightning he is a highly respected poster and the things I have read from him seem level headed and not too positive and not too negative. I would go with his opinion over Saint's on anything. Open minded to me means the person looks at it from both sides of the spectrum and can accept something different. So I say again...Saint can have his opinion...I just don't agree with it.

Sounds logical - Toss out any regard for facts and adopt an axiom of reason based on feelings and disregard! Good job, Bingo!

Facts? When did facts come into play? This whole thread has been basically nothing but feelings and opinions. Bingo!

What? Did you stand behind Lightning while he thumbed through each page?? It appears you base your doubts not on a lack of evidence - but rather the southwinds of your feelings! Good luck with that approach to issues.

Wetgorilla

Nope but he dedicated an entire thread on a script review of the characters. So your telling me I should go with someone who is basing his opinion on a novel that has been released long before the movie? Sorry for agreeing with someone who has a better knowledge of the film.

 

[GoblinScrier]

While some major changes have happened to Movie Doom vs. Comic Doom, there are 3 central traits of Doom in general:

1)His genius

2)His lust for power

3)His hatred of Richards


1)The genius--Look at the space station, look at the freezing apparatus he designs for Richards, the various gadgets, plus in the movie, both Doom and Richards go to MIT so yes they are keeping his genius in tact.

2)Lust for power--Well nothing says power like "I've always wanted power, now I have an unlimited supply...ha ha ha ha ha" and "Victor, you always thought you were a god." Doom wants power...simple as that and next on the list...Latveria

3)His hatred of Richards...does this really need to be elaborated ? Trust me...it is there.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

While some major changes have happened to Movie Doom vs. Comic Doom, there are 3 central traits of Doom in general:

1)His genius

2)His lust for power

3)His hatred of Richards


1)The genius--Look at the space station, look at the freezing apparatus he designs for Richards, the various gadgets, plus in the movie, both Doom and Richards go to MIT so yes they are keeping his genius in tact.

2)Lust for power--Well nothing says power like "I've always wanted power, now I have an unlimited supply...ha ha ha ha ha" and "Victor, you always thought you were a god." Doom wants power...simple as that and next on the list...Latveria

3)His hatred of Richards...does this really need to be elaborated ? Trust me...it is there.

 

[Sardaukar]

You're wrong here (Just like Lightnin) and by repositioning 100% of the blame onto nameless Fox executives you're allowing those accountable for this mockery to go without having to answer for their f***-U*! If either one of you spent an substantial time in the entertainment industry in and around Hollywood you would understand the FULL role a feature-film director is given. The job description includes retooling the script during production. A director isn't at the mercy of the script like a made-for-television movie is; rather the screenwriter's work is at the mercy of the director.

For some reason a few of you on this thread appear to protect Story without any knowledge of the film industry at all. The only intelligent defense that has been made is the underlined comment above.

Some directors want to kiss ass and will go to lengths in an attempt to build a repoire with their producers (who often give them their studio work). As a director, Story has a voice and obligation to stand up against the script and ask for a rewrite.

Now, I'm not saying Story won't produce a cool movie (cinematically) - I know he's never been given the chance and hell, he might be very talented. I can't see what's inside of him. But, from the evidence we do have - he has compromised the characters and storyline of this production. Period.



I've read Story's comments/excuses and will only take them as far as he stated them. I lived and worked in and around the film industry during my twenties while in Los Angeles. I know the authority and previlages available to feature-film directors. They're not the powerless creatives trying to put out excellent work only to be shut down by executives. Hollywood is a two-way street!

Wetgorilla

I hear what you're saying and you may be right. Believe me, it's not like I'm a Tim Story fan who's willing to defend him to death or anything. I have no emotional stake in this. All I know is that FOX has a huge reputation for screwing over their directors and micromanaging their films.

True, Story definitely had some input into the creative process of the script. All I'm saying is that if I was Story and my choice was either A. mess with the script to please some diehard Doom fans or B. take no chances, leave things alone and make my bosses happy (or make things easier for myself because I have a heck of a lot of other things to worry about than changing an already approved script), I'd probably choose option B for the sake of my career.

Obviously I wish he had chosen A but what can I do?

 

[Sardaukar]

While some major changes have happened to Movie Doom vs. Comic Doom, there are 3 central traits of Doom in general:

1)His genius

2)His lust for power

3)His hatred of Richards


1)The genius--Look at the space station, look at the freezing apparatus he designs for Richards, the various gadgets, plus in the movie, both Doom and Richards go to MIT so yes they are keeping his genius in tact.

2)Lust for power--Well nothing says power like "I've always wanted power, now I have an unlimited supply...ha ha ha ha ha" and "Victor, you always thought you were a god." Doom wants power...simple as that and next on the list...Latveria

3)His hatred of Richards...does this really need to be elaborated ? Trust me...it is there.

Sure, these things may be there, but how well are they done?

For instance, I'm not a big fan of the Hulk movie.

The Hulk in that movie seems follow all the criteria...

1. He's big, strong, indescructible, etc.

2. He gets more powerful the madder he gets.

3. He has a "weak", mild mannered alter ego.

But was the character in that film nearly as good in the movie as he is in the comics?

Not in my opinion.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Sure, these things may be there, but how well are they done?

For instance, I'm not a big fan of the Hulk movie.

The Hulk in that movie seems follow all the criteria...

1. He's big, strong, indescructible, etc.

2. He gets more powerful the madder he gets.

3. He has a "weak", mild mannered alter ego.

But was the character in that film nearly as good in the movie as he is in the comics?

Not in my opinion.

We are going to have to see the movie for this. And plus the director didn't do the Doom movements for the movie...haha.

 

[Dragon]

While some major changes have happened to Movie Doom vs. Comic Doom, there are 3 central traits of Doom in general:

1)His genius

2)His lust for power

3)His hatred of Richards

1)The genius--Look at the space station, look at the freezing apparatus he designs for Richards, the various gadgets, plus in the movie, both Doom and Richards go to MIT so yes they are keeping his genius in tact.

Not at all. There's nothing to indicate that Doom himself designed and built all of these things. He's merely shown to own them.

2)Lust for power--Well nothing says power like "I've always wanted power, now I have an unlimited supply...ha ha ha ha ha" and "Victor, you always thought you were a god." Doom wants power...simple as that and next on the list...Latveria

In the movie his lust impotent. He doesn't seek to achieve that power until the means is given to him accidently.

In the comics, Doom pursues his goals of power with complete abandon. And most importantly- he does this of his own power. He doesn't need an accident to grant him abilties. He makes it happen.

3)His hatred of Richards...does this really need to be elaborated ? Trust me...it is there.

Nope. Two big problems in this department.

In the comics, Doom's hatred is built up over a period of many years. It ferments into an obsession, thus we can understand why his hatred of Richards is so complete and endless.

And- most importantly- In the comics, his hatred of Richards is wrong.
Doom's great character flaw is that he can't accept he has flaws. He's the true cause of his scarring- but he can't accept it, and has to find someone to blame. So of course it must be his bitter intellectual rival. so this character flaw makes it understandable that Doom would engage in the maniacal acts he does.

In the movie, Doom actually has a very good reason to hate Reed. Reed F-ed up and put everyone in danger because of his poor calculations regarding the shielding and movement of the cosmic cloud. In this instance, if I were Doom, I'd want to kick his ass too.

 

[Sardaukar]

In the movie, Doom actually has a very good reason to hate Reed. Reed F-ed up and put everyone in danger because of his poor calculations regarding the shielding and movement of the cosmic cloud. In this instance, if I were Doom, I'd want to kick his ass too.

That's good.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

That's good.

Yeah but is he saying that is a flaw?

 

[Joe Rockhead]

In the movie, Doom actually has a very good reason to hate Reed. Reed F-ed up and put everyone in danger because of his poor calculations regarding the shielding and movement of the cosmic cloud. In this instance, if I were Doom, I'd want to kick his ass too.

As the owner of the space station, shouldn't it be Doom's responsibility to ensure there's adequate shielding?

A point of contention between Reed and Doom would be "Reed said the cosmic storm wouldn't be strong enough to penetrate the station", and "Doom said the station's shielding would be strong enough to withstand the cosmic storm".

Reed assures Ben it should be okay, so Ben could blame Reed for his condition... but Doom has no one to blame but himself.