I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[Knightsaber Priss]

Wow, I guess we only come out at night, huh guys?

Dude, I work the night shift so I'm used to being up at this time, even on days off.

 

[Sardaukar]

snazzy, is this that article you were thinking about?

Did I Think That Out Loud?! 4.10.04
Posted By Jim Lemoine on 04.09.04

A glimpse behind the iron mask of Doom.

Suppose you had the chance to live in a fairy-tale kingdom, one that its residents almost unanimously consider to be the greatest place to live in all the world. Walking down the streets of its capitol city is like taking a step back in time; happy people in simple clothes greet you as you pass, the architecture of the buildings and monuments is a beauty to behold, and you can walk freely, even down dark alleys at night, without fear of crime... because there isn't any. The schools in this kingdom provide competitive education, unemployment is virtually nonexistent, and everybody is recognized (and promoted) for their talents. To make things even better, there is no pollution in this land, little disease, no risk of war or internal strife, and the government is like an open book - the ruling class is always available to personally speak with citizens. Outside the city you'd find a beautiful forest flanked by a grand mountain range, within which several other villages exist, all filled with happy people. There's no racism, either; the very concept of bigotry seems virtually unknown to the residents of this country.

Sounds pretty good, doesn't it?

But what if there were a price? Just one payment to make, a small thing, really... in order to live in this utopian community, you'd have to give up your freedom.

Oh, you'd still be pretty much free to go wherever you wanted - you could wander the country, and you could freely travel outside its borders. However, you couldn't speak out against the ruling class, under pain of death. You couldn't dispute any laws or judgements that you felt were unfair. And you couldn't expect a free press, elect your own leader, assemble publicly, or propose any kind of real change in the way the country is.

So... would it be worth it to you?

The concept of freedom is an intangible thing, and people lived without it for centuries. How easy would it be to give it up, especially considering the vast wealth of benefits offered in exchange? And how much easier would it be to simply appreciate what you had, if you never even knew what freedom was?

Now let's take it a step further. Let's say that you're the ruler of your country - you're the President of the United States or Russia, or the Prime Minister of Britain, or whatever: the important part here is, you're in charge. And let's say that, for argument's sake, the country's huge military LOVES you, and would do anything for you. And let's further say that by implementing some immediate form of martial law in your country, you knew for a fact that you could significantly reduce violent crimes - especially murders, rapes, and the like. You would be abridging some of the "freedoms" (there's that word again) of your citizens, but you would save lives. People that would have died, otherwise, would live under your more authoritarian policy. Would it be worth it?

Too hard? Here's an easier one, then. Let's say that you're a citizen of a democracy (or a republic, which is what most countries considered to be democracies actually are), and you have a chance to vote for an unprecedented, outrageous new proposal. Under this proposal, popular elections for President (/Prime Minister/Premier/Whatever) would be eliminated. No more voting for the lesser of two evils, no more obsequious pandering for votes, no more lies and distortion, no more selling out an entire country for business profit and/or special interests (note how the proposal's worded, of course). Instead, one new "Ruler For Life" would be installed, who would serve the country up until his death. And this ruler, though no politician, has a guaranteed track record of making his constituents happy by significantly reducing crime and taxes, and significantly increasing benefits and security. You know for a fact that if you vote for this proposal, you'll see those kind of immediate benefits under this new ruler... all you'd give up would be your right to choose a better leader. Would you vote for the proposal?

What, exactly, is freedom? Does it mean so much to people because we're conditioned to treasure it, or because we actually value it? How many of us have actually fought for our freedom? How much is freedom really worth to the average global citizen?

(What's that? You thought this was a column on comic books? You're right, it is... and here comes the payoff, true believer....)

Every leader has a choice to make about how he or she will lead. Most leaders go with the tried and true, staying similar to what's come before and not rocking the boat in a revolutionary way. But one world leader who's never been afraid of change or rocking the boat is Victor Von Doom... absolute monarch of Latveria, bane of the Fantastic Four, Penultimate Prestidigitator (since he scored second place in the competition to select a new Sorcerer Supreme), and arguably one of the greatest comic book villains of all time. Doom made his decision, and he would argue that he placed the good of his people over the frivolous desire for freedom. Reed Richards would argue that the citizens of Latveria are brainwashed and naive; Doom would counter that they're simply happiest with what they've been given, and that Reed is biased against him. So who's right?

From the moment when he was first created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, Doctor Doom was earmarked for a very special place in the history of graphic literature. Sure, Marvel had thrown colorful villains at us before: the evil Mole Man, the nefarious Skrulls from outer space, and the conflicted Sub-Mariner among them, but never had there been one so villainous... so diabolical... so scheming... as the man most appropriately named Doom. Lee and Kirby meant for Doom to be the arch-nemesis of not only Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four, but also of the Marvel Universe entire. Between his constant battles with the Richards clan, he would sneak out to attack the likes of Spider-Man and the Avengers.

The original Doctor Doom of the early Fantastic Four was a multi-layered villain: a genius megalomaniac with a tragic past and an almost unbelievable sense of honor. We all know the story by now - Victor Von Doom's parents died when he was young. He went to college, got involved in the dark arts, and tried to contact the netherworld. As his one-time roommate Reed Richards had warned him, his calculations were off and the experiment blew up in his face. A scarred Von Doom was expelled from university and set out alone into the wilds of the Far East to learn a greater power. Monks found him, taught him their secrets, and helped him forge his armor. Doom swore vengeance on those who had opposed him, usurped control of Latveria from its rightful rulers, and became the ultra-villain Doctor Doom.

That's his whole back-story... or at least, as much of his backstory as we originally got from Lee and Kirby. Sounds like your pretty standard comic-book-villain origin sequence - at least until you peel back a few layers of the onion and get to the real story behind the story. Yes, Doom's parents died when he was young; but as Victor knew (and he respected them for it), they died so that he could live. Yes, he was power-hungry and ruthlessly ambitious; but it's painfully obvious that he used all of his knowledge to help his people, the ceaselessly persecuted wandering gypsies of Latveria. Yes, he learned Black Magic and tried to contact the netherworld; but he only did it to save his mother, who he'd learned was imprisoned and tortured in Mephisto's Inferno. Yes, he usurped control of Latveria; but this was only after he learned that his own family had once been the rulers of Latveria, and that the current ruling class had originally usurped power from the line of Von Doom.

Doesn't seem so black and white anymore, does it?

Now let's say that you read an independent comic (or even a novel, heaven help us) where a child prodigy wanted to use his talents to give something back to the world. Despite the fact that his parents were taken from him at a young age, and despite the fact that he was horribly scarred by an accident, he wanted to overthrow the despotic rulers of his home country. What's more, he wanted to use his mastery of science to eliminate disease, war, and strife, and he wanted to share these blessings with the entire world. Oh, and he would use any means necessary to make that happen.

Good guy or bad guy?

These are the kinds of questions that make Doom so interesting. One of the best character studies of Doom that I ever read was in Jim Shooter's Secret Wars #10. In it, the Beyonder pulled back the layers of Doom's psyche to better understand his desire - to learn what it was that really drove Doom. Evil was not a fundamental part of Doom's being, it turned out, but three desires were: freedom for his mother, restoration for his ravaged face, and a quest for power, to extend his rule. The first two driving needs obviously aren't evil in the slightest, and as for the last - well, it's been firmly established that Doom really did believe that the world would be a better, happier place with him in charge, and a lot of people agreed with him. So would that really make him evil?

Doom's only ever had two real problems that have made him seem like the bad guy: his "the ends justify the means" philosophy (which isn't really all that different from what real-world leaders practice, now is it?), and his maniacal fascination with making Reed Richards and Benjamin Grimm suffer. So yes, the guy's got character flaws, obviously. He still blames Reed for the accident which originally scarred him (although according to Doom co-creator Jack Kirby, that accident only gave him a small scratch on the cheek; Doom's vanity was the only real casualty), and he blames Ben for his most humiliating defeat during the Battle of the Baxter Building (which, by the way, is probably one of the greatest comic stories ever created, and can be found in Fantastic Four #39-40).

We can then infer that vanity is Doom's Shakespearean "tragic flaw," the one thing that's really held him back all of these years. He's vain about his appearance, he's vain about his battles, and he's most vain of all about his intelligence. It's not enough that he knows deep down that he's the most intelligent human being on the face of the earth; he needs everyone else to admit it, too. It doesn't matter that there's so much evidence to back up his claim of superiority (witness the technologically advanced Latverians, or his dual mastery of both Magic and Science, or perhaps most telling: the fact that after Reed had been trying for years and years to find a way to change the Thing back into a human, Doom accomplished this easily, in the span of one issue, in Fantastic Four #350!). Doom is a great, great man, admittedly; but he has a deep-seated need to be acknowledged, by everyone, as a great, great man. And therein lies his downfall.

Some of the most enjoyable Doom stories are the ones where he manages to get past his vanity, the ones where the Doom he keeps locked within gets a chance to show just why this character's been so successful. One of my favorite Doom stories is the Doom/Strange graphic novel Triumph and Torment, in which Doom enlists the help of Earth's Sorcerer Supreme in freeing his mother's soul from Mephisto. It's a genuinely touching story, showing what kind of man Doom really is when he's not fighting superheroes. In the end, Doom's triumph comes, surprisingly, from his ability to not be vain, to not need the love of others... even those whose love he truly desires more than anything else. Writer Roger Stern turned in one of his very finest works in this graphic novel, and it's worth hunting for in your comic shop.

Where are Doom's successes? They have, almost universally, come from the times when he's thought of others rather than himself. He succeeded in taking control of Latveria (and later, retaking Latveria in both Fantastic Four and Doom 2099) because he saw his friends, family, and countrymen abused and exploited by tyranny and bigotry. As head of Latveria, the people were happy, and injustice simply ceased to exist.

Doom succeeded in becoming a master of the magical arts, second only to Doctor Strange. He did this not out of his own need for power, but because he wanted to rescue his mother.

Doom succeeded in protecting Latveria from numerous dangers. It was established that this protection (both in Doom 2099 and books like Fantastic Four #381) was not so much to protect his own power base as it was to serve his citizens. Even when Doom was at his most one-dimensional (DeFalco's otherwise-mostly-enjoyable run on FF), his love for his people and need to serve as their protector remained.

Doom succeeded in taking over the entire planet, and later saving it from extinction, in the alternate future portrayed in Marvel's old 2099 line, in stories by Warren Ellis and many others. In this alternate future, without a need to strike at a Fantastic Four or deal with an immense number of superheroes, Doom was portrayed as a hero, though a flawed and arrogant one. And he took over the world, and later saved it, first and foremost to protect his beloved Latverians.

So Doom is, in many of the ways that really count, a hero. Sure, there are lots of villainous moments in his past that would make one doubt that assessment - for instance, his hand in the Acts of Vengeance affair, or his partnership with Arcade to destroy the X-Men just after Phoenix died. However, it has since been proven that the real Victor Von Doom was not present at either of those events - these were examples of his nearly indistinguishable Doombots acting independently (and yes, that means that in Uncanny X-Men #145-147 when Storm had the hots for him, she was attracted to a robot). There has been a great deal of evidence (most especially in Fantastic Four #350 and #352) that the vast majority of Doom's standard, one-dimensional "villainous" appearances in the Marvel Universe were actually his Doombots. And while it's true that the real Doom must share responsibility for the acts of his creations, one could argue that it at least partially excuses him from many of their nastier deeds.

John Byrne's Doom Magnum Opus, Fantastic Four #248, also went a long way toward establishing Doom as a flawed but basically well-meaning man. Byrne showed Doom as a caring ruler and even a devoted father... but a man whose vanity could stir him to unspeakable acts (such as striking his adopted child). All very consistent with what else we know about Doom.

Victor Von Doom even served as a member of the Fantastic Four, although unofficially, in two separate occasions. The first time, Sue asked him to lead the team when Reed was the mental thrall of the Overmind, and Doom did indeed serve and battle the FF's enemy. Later, he hitched along with Ben Grimm's Fantastic Four, just after Crystal left the team, and guided them on an otherdimensional odyssey. In both instances, Doom acted with honor, if not with a true love for his teammates.

It's a fact that Doom seeks power and dominion because he feels he can do a better job than current world leaders, that he can make the world a better place and help people live happier, more productive lives. Would the world be better off with Doom in charge? Depends on who you ask; Reed Richards and the citizens of America would say no, but Victor Von Doom and the citizens of Latveria would say yes. But the question isn't quite as black and white as most think it would be.

Most comics readers call Doom the greatest villain of the Marvel Universe, if not the greatest villain of the entirety of comics. There's a reason why we love to see this guy in action; he's a deep, multi-layered character with complex motivations and emotions. Within the Marvel Universe, some see him as the most evil villain; others see him as a benevolent savior.

So which is really the truth?

A few months ago, Jim Lemoine completed the manuscript for his first book, an examination of business leadership. Oddly enough, his second book is being published this summer, while his first book is still delayed by guys in expensive suits. He's still waiting for Victor Von Doom to join the Avengers.

http://411mania.com/comics/columns/article.php?columns_id=2337

 

[Kurosawa]

Again, that's just a brilliant article.

There can be a strong arguement that not only is Doom the greatest villian in the history of comics, but indeed that he is a challenger for the title of greatest character in the history of comics.

And the idiot suits at FOX made him into a Eurotrash Norman Osborn clone. They can burn in hell.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

Wow, that article is so deep. Thanks for posting it!

 

[InVictus]

Thank you Sardaukar... that article should be read by anyone interested in FF..

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

I just wanted to say that I am just glad that Julian McMahon didn't gesticulate like a drunken traffic cop like a certain previous movie Doom, who looked pretty nifty but that was about it.

 

[snazzy J]

snazzy, is this that article you were thinking about?



http://411mania.com/comics/columns/article.php?columns_id=2337

That's the one. Much gratitude, Sardaukar.

 

[Negrotigre]

Well this might sound really horrible but you guys asked for an alternative to installing a weapon on the space station so here it goes... What if Doom knew about the "cosmic rays"? Maybe it could be his mission to go in to space and try and collect the comic energy and harness it so that he could create a new weapon of mass destruction. The cosmic energy could be 100 times more powerful than a nuclear blast and it would give Doom the edge he needed over the rest of the world in order to reclaim Latveria. While in space Doom begins to draw the cosmic energy towards the space shuttle in an attempt to collect it. Reed discovers Doom's plan and stops him. Doom uses an escape pod and gets away, But his tampering with the cosmic waves cause them to become unstable and tear through the shuttle. Doom watches from the escape pod as his rivals and his dream seem to die. When the Esacpe Pod comes back to earth there is a crash and Doom is horribly disfigured....
Well that's all I have to say.

I think your ideas on Doom are really good! You should have written the film!

Negro, OUT!~

 

[wetgorilla]

originally posted in the FF Review Thread

I treated my girlfriend and myself to an afternoon screening of The Fantastic Four and although she went in excited she left with the same distaste for this movie as I did. I'm sure most people on this forum know by now I have been very critical of the aspects revealed through trailers, production notes and comments, photographs, and available scripts floating around. Well, the criticism appears to have been 100% justified and quite tame compaired to what this movie deserves after having viewed it! LOL

First of all this movie had Made-For-Television written all over it and dialog which came across as though it was borrowed from a Saturday-morining cartoon. It lacked theme, story direction (forgive the pun here) and structure, depth, and character motivation. All these major flaws are rooted in poor writing, direction, and production.

1. Theme
So, what was the theme of this movie? Unlike The Incredibles whose theme was "Superheroes Trying To Cope With Living Everyday Lives", this movie couldn't volunteer a clear reason for filming. Was it four individuals trying to cope with their new powers? Was it four individuals trying to find a cure for their newly found superpowers? Was it Good versus Evil in regards to Doom being the supposed villian? Who knows what it really was because too many weak themes were drafted during the length of this movie. The problem with not having a strong theme is made worse by the lack of structure in this movie.

2. Structure and Story Direction
Structure has a lot to do with having a strong theme. During my time (small as it was) with Disney there was a saying everyone was away of. Walt once said concerning everything including stories, People will only walk down a long hallway if there is something at the end to greet them. This was his paradigm for choosing stories to produce as well as building his theme park (the castle along Main Street) and the rides in general. The audience needs to be given a glimpse of what is awaiting down the path to entice them. Each feature film had to have a script which would become a hallway guiding the audience from beginning to end and the theme was what enticed them to continue.

With The Fantastic Four, the film was broken into small segmented incidents.
a) The bridge incident beginning with The Thing sulking and ending with The Thing being dumped by his wife (who just happens to be on the bridge). This entire scene was isolated and could have been eliminated altogether. How did it contribute to any direction along a central storyline? It didn't. It just derailed any clear route.

This scene also gave us The Invisible Woman taking off her clothes while Johnny and Reed simply walked around the crowd. It also gave us, The Thing causing more damage than good and only saving those he endangered to begin with. The powers of The Thing and Invisible Woman could have been displayed much better within the context of a well written storyline rather than a ridiculous segment such as this. It was out of place.

b) The Doom subplot concerning the loss of Von Doom Industries was entirely unneeded unless Victor Von Doom required the threat of financial failure to push him into becoming Doctor Doom. If so, then this Doom is suffering from a possible mental breakdown (which the real Doom is not) otherwise, it contributed nothing to a central storyline or the reenforcement of a strong central theme.

c) The entire Johnny Storm ego show. WTF? No wonder Tim Story claimed he had no room to present the origin of Doom. It's because he and the rest of the production crew were busy segmenting the storyline rather than building one that would run along a central theme. Pathetic. So, what did Johnny's motorcross escapade accomplish other than being eye candy for the 14-22 year-old crowd? Where did it take the audience? One way to distinguish an unnecessary scene is when it has a clear beginning and ending but DOES NOT contribute to the audience being carried along the central storyline.

Once again, this movie suffered from massive failures regarding structure and storyline. It was nothing more than a jumble of isolated scenes without providing any contribution to a central direction. Each scene seemed to have been created to highlight a small and shallow aspect of each character (invisibility, Johnny's ego, the relationship between Johnny and Ben, Ben's disparitiy) without regard for telling a good story.

Cont.

Wetgorilla

 

[wetgorilla]

originally posted in the FF Review Thread

I was a huge opponent to what was being done with the character of Doom during the production of this movie, but was happy to see I wasn't entirely correct on my position with this issue.

Doctor Doom will not be remembered as the Industrialist Gone Insane character by fans of this movie because Doctor Doom wasn't in it. A character known as Victor Von Doom will be remembered or Victor as he was more commonly known throughout this movie.

Nevertheless, I'll continue along the lines of my last post by addressing the character motivations

3. Character Motivations
a) Reed Richards was entirely weak and bumbling and left without any scenes which demonstrated his intellect. On the contrary, one of Reed's greatest accomplishments (unstable molecules) are credited to Doom and The Cosmic Cloud. Also, it took Doom to accomplish the return of The Thing back into his human form while Reed was chilling in a hospital bed. Pathetic.

b) My Susan Storm critique can be found in the Susan's Garden thread. Check it out!

c) Johnny Storm was alright. I thought his character (despite the unnecessary segmented scenes and poor dialog) was consistent with the original source and any flaws could be overlooked. Johnny Storm (as a character in this production) didn't derail this movie alone and had some entertaining merits which could have undoubtedly been capitalized on more effectively than it was here. I particularly liked the fact he drove a nice red sports car (although the street racing in downtown Manhattan was entirely unbelievable) and his character was the only one with a motivation clear to the audience. Period.

d) Doom. What can be said here? I've said my piece many times before in the Doom thread's along with reasonable critics such as DoctorVonDoomX, Herr Logan, Orange99, and a handful of other insights.

Was the audience convinced that Doom was motivated by a lust for power, his twisted desire for Susan Storm, or was he damaged mentally by the cosmic cloud and wasn't in control of his faculties? Who knows. Most audience members leaving the theatre I was in said, "he was jealous and wanted the woman". Ugghhhhh!

4. Depth
Unlike Spiderman whose theme was, "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" and built a strong and complex story to emphasize such a theme. The Fantastic Four movie wasn't complex but shallow in regards to the its story and characters. Peter Parker had problems and those problems were addressed in a serious manner in the first and second film which appealed to the adult audience members. The problems facing The Fantastic Four were not addressed in a serious manner neither were they connected with the central theme.

The most serious scenes made had nothing to do with The Fantastic Four themselves or furthered the movie along in an invariable direction - those scences were when Reed was talking to Sue in the restaurant and at the end of the film when Reed proposes. Otherwise the overall story was very shallow and emphasizes my point concerning how disjointed each scene was from each other and from any central storyline.

The script, littered with dialog such as - "What happens when you super-cool rubber?" and "our DNA has been fundamentally altered." was consistent on delivering only one thing - juvenile humor and slight mindless distraction. The ironic thing about this entire production is how the finished film offered exactly the OPPOSITE the comic did when it was first released. The comic was hailed because it offered a serious look at superheroes and their lives. It offered a glimpse into a more mature form of entertainment sandwiched between a comic cover. So, go figure!?

Wetgorilla

 

[wetgorilla]

I'm still taken back by the idea that Doom wasn't saved for a second film ala Batman Begins. But, regardless, I can only imagine the absurdity going through the minds of everyone involved with this film. Not only was Doom slated to be the "villian" in this first film, but Doctor Doom was only given the final 15 minutes of screen time.

The entire Doom issue stinks of poor planning.

Wetgorilla

 

[Agent 194]

Doom wasn't exactly what I wanted but as it was written I liked McMahon's performance. He had a cool office.

 

[bosef982]

...the similarities were just too many to be forgiven?

A huge scientific project that could make or break this company if it fails. It fails, and he's in big trouble.

An obligatory getting fired and put off by the board sequence, and the dreadful stare as we know what the villian is going to do next.

A killing of the head of the obligatory getting fired or put off scene where we saw the dreadful stare of the villian as we know what he's going to do next NOW actually doing it.

The killing of a second-string character there just to introduce tension or drama, Dr. Stroom and Doctor in lab, both are grabbed by their necks and FLUNG into or through glass.

Goblin is rejected by Spider-man after a proposal to work together. Thus, he fights back and attempts to destroy Spider-Man, believing all along that he is better than most of the people in the world. Doom is rejected by Sue STorm and the Fantastic Four. Thus, he fights back to destroy their interpersonal all along beliveing the he is better than most of humanity nad embracing his destiny, which Goblin alos talked about.

Did they just drain the AUTOMATIC VILLIAN PLOT DISPENSER and had to reload?

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

yep, inexcusable similarities.

and he even wore GREEN !

 

[ultimatefan]

There were even a couple of scenes that looked and more or less played the same, the board meeting and he one where he killed the doctor, when he was in front of the mirror, I swear I thought he was gonna start talking to himself...

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

All they needed was a Thanksgiving dinner with Aunt Petunia.

 

[huskerwebhead]

...the similarities were just too many to be forgiven?

A huge scientific project that could make or break this company if it fails. It fails, and he's in big trouble.

An obligatory getting fired and put off by the board sequence, and the dreadful stare as we know what the villian is going to do next.

A killing of the head of the obligatory getting fired or put off scene where we saw the dreadful stare of the villian as we know what he's going to do next NOW actually doing it.

The killing of a second-string character there just to introduce tension or drama, Dr. Stroom and Doctor in lab, both are grabbed by their necks and FLUNG into or through glass.

Goblin is rejected by Spider-man after a proposal to work together. Thus, he fights back and attempts to destroy Spider-Man, believing all along that he is better than most of the people in the world. Doom is rejected by Sue STorm and the Fantastic Four. Thus, he fights back to destroy their interpersonal all along beliveing the he is better than most of humanity nad embracing his destiny, which Goblin alos talked about.

Did they just drain the AUTOMATIC VILLIAN PLOT DISPENSER and had to reload?

I thought the same thing. The boardroom scene especially. He even said something about how much time and money he's put into this company...just like Norman did.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

What a total rip-off and utter lack of imagination. It's as if they couldn't get their tiny little minds around Doctor Doom's REAL origin story, and just said: "F*** it! We'll just use the same one as the Green Goblin!"

 

[HerosOnFilm]

I half way expected him to yell at the board member "OUT AM I???!" as he zapped him in the parking garage, lol

 

[the a1ant]

Green Goblin was WAY scarier than Doom in movie-verse, and that's a bad thing, IMO. GG could whoop Doom's butt.

Doom is the one part of FF I think they totally screwed up in this film. Just another unoriginal villain, which sucks, because Doom is the villain.

 

[killbill22]

...the similarities were just too many to be forgiven?

A huge scientific project that could make or break this company if it fails. It fails, and he's in big trouble.

An obligatory getting fired and put off by the board sequence, and the dreadful stare as we know what the villian is going to do next.

A killing of the head of the obligatory getting fired or put off scene where we saw the dreadful stare of the villian as we know what he's going to do next NOW actually doing it.

The killing of a second-string character there just to introduce tension or drama, Dr. Stroom and Doctor in lab, both are grabbed by their necks and FLUNG into or through glass.

Goblin is rejected by Spider-man after a proposal to work together. Thus, he fights back and attempts to destroy Spider-Man, believing all along that he is better than most of the people in the world. Doom is rejected by Sue STorm and the Fantastic Four. Thus, he fights back to destroy their interpersonal all along beliveing the he is better than most of humanity nad embracing his destiny, which Goblin alos talked about.

Did they just drain the AUTOMATIC VILLIAN PLOT DISPENSER and had to reload?

Damn, good point.

 

[Zev]

There's even a scene where he taunts his paralyzed nemesis. Turning Doom into a generic corporate baddie = big mistake.

 

[2112ad]

Didn't the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe list Doom as having 3 goals. 1. absolute power 2. the rescue of his mother's soul from hell 3. the complete defeat and humiliation of Reed Richards (and the FF). They need to take these 3 goals and compare with the movie Doom, and see how short they fell in portraying the character. Doom would never allow a board of executives to have any control over him. Bad writing.

 

[Tony Stark]

The script and some of the scenes were similar, but Julians performance made the difference. He played Doom as an extremely vein megalomaniac, who comes off as cold and calculating.

The script writers should be sued for plagerism, but Julian made the difference between the characters.

 

[Red Mask]

Doom was evil to begin with. And he has a better reason to attack the Fantastic Four. So there is a departure as the story progressed.