I feel like DC still doesn't know what they're doing

[The Guard]

There is no evidence that DC has concrete plans laid out that they just aren't telling us about. Even their own movie stars are confused about what the heck DC is doing next. Their biggest breakout star, Margot Robbie, said herself she thinks she'll be playing Harley again next year but doesn't know even what movie it will be in. Will it be in a Joker and Harley movie? Suicide Squad 2? Gotham City Sirens? The Joker Origin movie (least likely)? Who knows
I think they're just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. And when what plans they do have fall apart they try to throw something new together.
How many Flash directors have they gone through now?

So no I wouldn't picture them as having a great but mysterious plan. I think executives desperately trying to get something successful to work would be a more appropriate description.

 

[Flint Marko]

It amuses me to no end that you have, for several years now, been insisting that DC has a plan and are still blindly sticking to that despite the pile of evidence demonstrating otherwise. Tell us, what is your definition of a "plan" and how do you not see that WB's "plan" has been, at best, nebulous and ever-changing for several years now?

 

[The Endless]

The problem is they are reactive, not proactive. They are letting their vision be dictated by audiences and rivals.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

The problem is they are reactive, not proactive. They are letting their vision be dictated by audiences and rivals.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I have no desire to make this a Marvel vs DC thing, but Marvel's choices seem to be inspired where DC's seem inspired alright...by panic.

 

[Flint Marko]

The problem is they are reactive, not proactive. They are letting their vision be dictated by audiences and rivals.

Yep. How many Suicide Squad spin-offs are in the works now? How many directors has the Flash had? When's JL part 2 coming out? For real, I think Flashpoint is the clearest indicator that things haven't been going well for them thus far.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Yep. How many Suicide Squad spin-offs are in the works now? How many directors has the Flash had? When's JL part 2 coming out? For real, I think Flashpoint is the clearest indicator that things haven't been going well for them thus far.

I've said the same thing about Flashpoint, and people have bitten my head off. If you're already looking for a way to reboot for damage control before you've even gotten started, how can you think anything else?!

 

[Flint Marko]

I've said the same thing about Flashpoint, and people have bitten my head off. If you're already looking for a way to reboot for damage control before you've even gotten started, how can you think anything else?!

To be fair we don't 100% know whether or not Flashpoint will serve as a soft reboot, but we can reasonably assume as much at this point. They've been floundering for a while now trying to figure out what movies to release and whether or not their biggest actor will still be involved post-JL, so it's a safe bet that Flashpoint will serve as their DOFP unless otherwise stated. If it isn't, that strikes me as a rather odd choice for Flash's very first film.

Then again this is the same studio who thought that cramming the death of Superman and the Dark Knight Returns into the second installment of the burgeoning DC cinematic universe was a good choice, so who knows.

 

[extra skater]

Maybe. I just don't trust the man though.

 

[random_havoc]

does this count at all https://***********/LiveLoveLupe/status/831165996815761411 ?

I think that's a good try but of course if someone asks them they're going to say they have a plan.but then on the other hand you have Margot and Leto both saying they are confused or don't know what's going on even with their own characters as opposed to Cavill's vaguely trying to make the studio look good

 

[guitarsingerguy]

To be fair we don't 100% know whether or not Flashpoint will serve as a soft reboot, but we can reasonably assume as much at this point. They've been floundering for a while now trying to figure out what movies to release and whether or not their biggest actor will still be involved post-JL, so it's a safe bet that Flashpoint will serve as their DOFP unless otherwise stated. If it isn't, that strikes me as a rather odd choice for Flash's very first film.

Then again this is the same studio who thought that cramming the death of Superman and the Dark Knight Returns into the second installment of the burgeoning DC cinematic universe was a good choice, so who knows.

No we don't, but it almost feels like they've got it on standby just in case that's what they decide they want to do. If they decide to do something different they can just say they planned that the whole time.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I wouldn't expect jared/margot to know anything on a beyond gotham justice league level which is probably what henry is referring too

didn't some article say Snyder had the DCEU planned out till 2020? or was it a bad source?

Even if they did have something planned out at one point in time, I think it's safe to say that has probably changed due to all the backlash. That's why I PERSONALLY think they have Flashpoint on deck. If JL is received as poorly as BvS, then I think it's reboot central. I think they really like their cast that they have in place, but the general tone of these films has been bashed. With Flashpoint, they can keep the same actors, but the tone can become much lighter and more in line with...I hate to say it... Marvel movies. Sorry guys...

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I doubt it will be as poorly received as BvS, they aren't taking as many risks; Batman is more traditional with his "we can do better, we have to" speech, it has steppenwolf as the villain which definitely won't be compared as much to other interpretations like Lex and supes's resurrection will probably be used for "finished product" supes as cavill puts it or at least closer to it.

They also have Joss's eyes for any martha moments



well u could just replace Marvel with Superman 1

True...very true.

 

[All-Father]

It amuses me to no end that you have, for several years now, been insisting that DC has a plan and are still blindly sticking to that despite the pile of evidence demonstrating otherwise. Tell us, what is your definition of a "plan" and how do you not see that WB's "plan" has been, at best, nebulous and ever-changing for several years now?

He knows they don't have a plan. But it's better to live in denial, it seems.

 

[extra skater]

Well, talking about the problems of DC films sometimes seem better than the films themselves so maybe that's what they want after all. People watch to Marvel films, love it, talk about it when coming out of the theater and that's it, now wait for the following episode. About the DC ones, we keep talking over, and over, and over, and over...

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Well, talking about the problems of DC films sometimes seem better than the films themselves so maybe that's what they want after all. People watch to Marvel films, love it, talk about it when coming out of the theater and that's it, now wait for the following episode. About the DC ones, we keep talking over, and over, and over, and over...

So we discuss the problems with the movies far more than we discuss the actual movie itself?! That's absolutely hilarious, and honestly, probably very very true.

 

[TheGDBatman]

The problem is they are reactive, not proactive. They are letting their vision be dictated by audiences and rivals.

While I don't doubt that the plan is fluid, I also don't doubt that they have a plan. If I remember correctly, we know Snyder spent time mapping out the universe for the next few years. We also know that when Joss Whedon saw a board that included Batgirl on it. To me, that indicates that they're mapping things out and building a plan. Reception might influence which properties see the light of day, or which ones get priority.


On the flip side, we also don't know how Marvel would have reacted if some of the first movies in their universe received the same critical backlash that BvS did. The plan seems solid because they haven't been forced to deviate from everything. The movies have been crowd pleaser's, and as a result they've been able to keep on keepin on.

 

[The Guard]

The problem is they are reactive, not proactive. They are letting their vision be dictated by audiences and rivals.

Which is what a business tends to do, however you dress it up. Otherwise they tend to go out of business.

I really don't understand the obsession people here have with everything being planned out a decade in advance, not ever deviating from said plan, and not being able to have a fluid plan, or a plan that cannot adapt to the demands of story, actors, scheduling, consumer and market forces, etc.

The idea that things must be 100% set in stone for a plan to exist is ludicrous. All movies go through changes. All franchises go through changes. Businesses and business relationships go through change.

And businesses, and that's what cinema largely is, a business, must evolve to meet the demands of the consumer. The worst that can be said is that WB's original plan for the DCEU clearly did not 100% meet the demands of the consumer (IE, the critics and about half of the fanbase). But to suggest that this means no plan existed or exists? Ridiculous hyperbole.

Then there's the separate but equally ridiculous belief that because you are not personally privy to all the details, scope and nature of the plan...that no plan exists.

I don't know too many businesses out there that share more than the broad strokes of their marketing and product line plans. If they did...their competitors would be a lot more competitive.

 

[The Guard]

I think people are overthinking the use of FLASHPOINT as The Flash's solo film a bit and its meaning within the DCEU, while also underthinking it a bit.

Yes, FLASHPOINT allows for some retconning, if they so choose. (So could ANY Flash movie featuring time travel, really).

The plan way back when was to kill off Barry Allen in JUSTICE LEAGUE: MORTAL in a move from Crisis on Infinite Earths, and then deal with the ramifications of that in a solo Flash movie. They wanted "shared universe" connections even back then.

And along those lines, FLASHPOINT is one of the few existing modern and popular Flash storylines that touches and directly affects the fate of the entire DC Universe, especially the major characters. The use of the storyline immediately makes The Flash into a really important, lynchpin-style character in this larger DCEU mythology. It also, if it's anything like the comic, serves to cement the importance of several of their "newer" characters in Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Cyborg.

There's also the fact that Geoff Johns, who seems to be in charge these days, wrote the comic book storyline this will likely be based off of. So much like we're seeing a Johns-inspired Justice League (Cyborg as a member, the League dueling with the forces of Apokolips right off the bat), we're probably going to see Johns' influence in many of the DCEU's storylines moving forward. I would certainly expect to see a heavily-Johns influenced AQUAMAN and GREEN LANTERN CORPS.

 

[Flint Marko]

Which is what a business tends to do, however you dress it up. Otherwise they tend to go out of business.

I really don't understand the obsession people here have with everything being planned out a decade in advance, not ever deviating from said plan, and not being able to have a fluid plan, or a plan that cannot adapt to the demands of story, actors, scheduling, consumer and market forces, etc.

The idea that things must be 100% set in stone for a plan to exist is ludicrous. All movies go through changes. All franchises go through changes. Businesses and business relationships go through change.

And businesses, and that's what cinema largely is, a business, must evolve to meet the demands of the consumer. The worst that can be said is that WB's original plan for the DCEU clearly did not 100% meet the demands of the consumer (IE, the critics and about half of the fanbase). But to suggest that this means no plan existed or exists? Ridiculous hyperbole.

Then there's the separate but equally ridiculous belief that because you are not personally privy to all the details, scope and nature of the plan...that no plan exists.

I don't know too many businesses out there that share more than the broad strokes of their marketing and product line plans. If they did...their competitors would be a lot more competitive.

Here's a four-year old post where you're beating this exact drum:

Here’s the thing.

This whole “WB doesn’t have a plan” thing is an assumption. This is an assumption from fans, based on hearsay.

There is absolutely nothing concrete to suggest that WB does not have a plan, or, even better, multiple options (backup plans). They'd be idiots if they didn't.

The people inside WB have said what WB is saying. They would like to make those movies. They’re working on it. They haven’t said exactly how they’re going to approach it, and that is their right in a business environment.

Marvel, beyond talking about properties it wanted to adapt, didn’t tip its hand, either, until it was more or less ready to go into production.

That is how movies are made. Even Marvel Studios, for each of its films, took something like a decade to get them off the ground or develop.

WB is arguably about a half decade behind with regard to the superhero craze. Marvel is ahead because it is ONLY devoted to that craze.

It’s not rocket science.

Making a $200 million dollar film isn’t easy. It’s not impossible, but it takes immense resources, even just to develop a film.

This is what is lost on people, and its endlessly annoying to hear fans whining over and over again about the "failure" in an industry they don't understand the workings of.

What's amazing is that, in the four years since the above post, DC has announced a slate, reshuffled or cancelled almost half of those films, made wild course corrections on numerous occasions and still have yet to make this supposed "plan" known to even their own actors, yet you continue to willfully ignore all of that. I look forward to watching you beat this same drum for the next four years while DC continues to aimlessly throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[jmc]

I think the issue is there's really only ever been at best a series of potential films with no real direction or build up. The simple fact that Margot Robbie doesn't seem to know what Harley Quinn movie she's doing next year more than indicates that the situation over at WB is a extremely fluid one, which is probably a generous way to put it. What we're dealing with are not so much plans but possibilities.

 

[writer0327]

I think the issue is there's really only ever been at best a series of potential films with no real direction or build up. The simple fact that Margot Robbie doesn't seem to know what Harley Quinn movie she's doing next year more than indicates that the situation over at WB is a extremely fluid one, which is probably a generous way to put it. What we're dealing with are not so much plans but possibilities.

I can't help but agree here. It's a lot of "What ifs" instead of "Here's the plan, here's what we're doing." DC seems to be focused on discussing the opportunities to make "X" number of films rather than actually settling into a couple of films to produce per year and carving out a path going forward.

I suspect this is all because somehow WB wants to recapture what they got out of the Dark Knight trilogy by bringing in creative directors like Nolan to add their own spin to these DC properties. The problem is, of course, you really can't create a cinematic universe that way without any kind of overarching storyline or direction.

 

[Flint Marko]

I can't help but agree here. It's a lot of "What ifs" instead of "Here's the plan, here's what we're doing." DC seems to be focused on discussing the opportunities to make "X" number of films rather than actually settling into a couple of films to produce per year and carving out a path going forward.

I suspect this is all because somehow WB wants to recapture what they got out of the Dark Knight trilogy by bringing in creative directors like Nolan to add their own spin to these DC properties. The problem is, of course, you really can't create a cinematic universe that way without any kind of overarching storyline or direction.

If they find a way to deliver the best of both worlds (an interconnected cinematic universe slowly built up by auteur directors doing their own thing on standalone films) I'd be all about it in a way that would rival my Marvel fandom. That sounds like the perfect way to counterbalance what the MCU. That's an insanely tall order, though, and their track record thus far is a testament to that. They'd have to take it one film at a time and reign in certain directors here and there to keep an overall status quo in place.

 

[extra skater]

an interconnected cinematic universe slowly built up by auteur directors doing their own thing on standalone films

Yes! Yes!

To me, the biggest mistake is that DC/Warner seems to be trying to reach Marvel, but instead of start from the beginning, they started from the "half way". Like... "Well, Marvel is in THIS point, let's start from THIS point too".

So they start everything from the 2nd film that shows a Batman that had already retired and suggests that at least one Robin existed when we've never seen Batman nor Robin before.

 

[writer0327]

If they find a way to deliver the best of both worlds (an interconnected cinematic universe slowly built up by auteur directors doing their own thing on standalone films) I'd be all about it in a way that would rival my Marvel fandom. That sounds like the perfect way to counterbalance what the MCU. That's an insanely tall order, though, and their track record thus far is a testament to that. They'd have to take it one film at a time and reign in certain directors here and there to keep an overall status quo in place.

Yes, the "one film at a time" approach would be the way to go. I'd start with a series of standalone films, give each director full autonomy to do whatever they wanted, and each subsequent director could piggyback off the last film or add their own unique spin to the narrative ("just tell us how this story continues...") I'd then find a couple of inventive filmmakers who could take some of these various story threads and tie them together with a central focus. It's definitely a tall order, but something that could be accomplished if you can find the right creative force behind it all.

 

[Flint Marko]

Yes! Yes!

To me, the biggest mistake is that DC/Warner seems to be trying to reach Marvel, but instead of start from the beginning, they started from the "half way". Like... "Well, Marvel is in THIS point, let's start from THIS point too".

So they start everything from the 2nd film that shows a Batman that had already retired and suggests that at least one Robin existed when we've never seen Batman nor Robin before.

I definitely think that's a part of it. There's no way you should do both the death of Superman and the Dark Knight Returns in your cinematic universe's second movie.

Yes, the "one film at a time" approach would be the way to go. I'd start with a series of standalone films, give each director full autonomy to do whatever they wanted, and each subsequent director could piggyback off the last film or add their own unique spin to the narrative ("just tell us how this story continues...") I'd then find a couple of inventive filmmakers who could take some of these various story threads and tie them together with a central focus. It's definitely a tall order, but something that could be accomplished if you can find the right creative force behind it all.

Here's a question going off this: could Superman Returns and Batman Begins had a crossover? Both of those movies were standalone auteur movies with their own unique tone and voice, but I think a crossover could have worked in the right hands.