I feel like DC still doesn't know what they're doing

[extra skater]

What exactly are they trying to do now?

Well, as of the news spread today and discussed in the All Things DCE thread, it seems that we stick with our statement here: they don't know what they're doing t:

My God, them guys have the three most famous heroes in the world in their hands and they don't know how to work it while Marvel turns the Ant-Man and the Guardians of the Universe into pop stars. t:

I just want they do Captain Marvel ("Shazam") film and do it good.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Personally, I'm a HUGE fan of letting a director that's shown some talent with the genre be given a shot at a blockbuster. Yeah, they definitely took a chance on Whedon. They found a fan with some talent and gave him the keys to the kingdom. It worked out pretty well.

Oh, who isn't? But the user I replied to said "master of the craft" should be a prereq. Had Whedon shown up at my door and showed me Serenity as the reason he should direct an Avengers movie, I'd have told him to pound asphalt. I fell asleep during that movie. (I did not asleep during The Avengers. t: )

I'm kinda confused why Shane Black was a farce to you. I thoroughly enjoyed IM3, but I was one of 3 people that didn't hate the Mandarin twist.

If they wanted to go for an outrageous twist, they should have dialed up the female Mandarin. (But they decided they couldn't sell toys that way!)

But, no, I didn't care for the twist, and the entire movie was like Iron Man 2, there was just more of it. I'd love another film on par with the first one.

I like what Shane did back in the '80s. I'm older than you guys, haha. Lethal Weapon is awesome. (I like all the sequels, too. They got progressively more silly, but they're worth following.) But then he dropped the ball again and again: TLBS, LAH, TLKG, KKBB. If you pay attention, he keeps writing the same movie over and over. He got 4 million bucks for his TLKG script! He found his comfortable space and stayed there.

Just because Superman Returns was pretty ****** doesn't mean Singer sucks.

Seriously overrated. He continues to get mad love for The Usual Suspects, but I'd rather he not do CBMs. His action scenes are remarkably, and consistently, tepid. That guy stepping away from the franchise is the best thing for it. We'll see if Kinberg's any better. But I think the first X-Men movie hasn't aged well, and Returns was a shameless pastiche-slash-total dud. Those who rate it above MoS are indulging their nostalgia for the Donner movies and nothing more. If Singer had actually made another Superman movie with the PZ trio, he would've dressed them in vinyl suits with pirate boots.

Out of all the CBMs that have been made, GL is easily the most heartbreaking for me.

So much wasted potential. It looks amateurish, like they cut the budget and went with the prelim draft that should have been dropped in the shredder.

 

[LaughterLives]

Singer sucks cuz he sucks. He always did. Does he have talent? sure. But its wasted on him.

 

[Skrilla31]

Returns is very much a semi-sequel to Superman II.

But it's a completely different kind of film and lacked all the things that made the Donner films enjoyable.

If you remove the Williams score what else do they have in common other than the fact that it's a movie about Superman? Maybe you can argue that Spacey's Luthor was modeled after Hackman's? Anything else?

 

[metaphysician]

Doesn't make it a non-sequel, it just means its a bad quality sequel.

 

[The Joker]

But it's a completely different kind of film and lacked all the things that made the Donner films enjoyable.

Same can be said for Batman Forever in relation to the Tim Burton movies, but it was still a sequel to them.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

But it's a completely different kind of film and lacked all the things that made the Donner films enjoyable.

If you remove the Williams score what else do they have in common other than the fact that it's a movie about Superman? Maybe you can argue that Spacey's Luthor was modeled after Hackman's? Anything else?

Plenty of references from dialogue to vague references to previous films (such as Luther being released from prison and knowing about the Fortress of Solitude) to minor character quirks like Lois sneaking off for cigarettes and her inability to spell.

Plus Marlon Brando is Jor-El in it.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Oh, who isn't? But the user I replied to said "master of the craft" should be a prereq. Had Whedon shown up at my door and showed me Serenity as the reason he should direct an Avengers movie, I'd have told him to pound asphalt. I fell asleep during that movie. (I did not asleep during The Avengers. t: )



If they wanted to go for an outrageous twist, they should have dialed up the female Mandarin. (But they decided they couldn't sell toys that way!)

But, no, I didn't care for the twist, and the entire movie was like Iron Man 2, there was just more of it. I'd love another film on par with the first one.

I like what Shane did back in the '80s. I'm older than you guys, haha. Lethal Weapon is awesome. (I like all the sequels, too. They got progressively more silly, but they're worth following.) But then he dropped the ball again and again: TLBS, LAH, TLKG, KKBB. If you pay attention, he keeps writing the same movie over and over. He got 4 million bucks for his TLKG script! He found his comfortable space and stayed there.



Seriously overrated. He continues to get mad love for The Usual Suspects, but I'd rather he not do CBMs. His action scenes are remarkably, and consistently, tepid. That guy stepping away from the franchise is the best thing for it. We'll see if Kinberg's any better. But I think the first X-Men movie hasn't aged well, and Returns was a shameless pastiche-slash-total dud. Those who rate it above MoS are indulging their nostalgia for the Donner movies and nothing more. If Singer had actually made another Superman movie with the PZ trio, he would've dressed them in vinyl suits with pirate boots.



So much wasted potential. It looks amateurish, like they cut the budget and went with the prelim draft that should have been dropped in the shredder.

You make some good points, and obviously, you're entitled to your opinion, so I respect it. I'm rather old myself buddy. There's more of us on here than you think. I'm pushing 40.

 

[Batmannerism]

Oh, who isn't? But the user I replied to said "master of the craft" should be a prereq. Had Whedon shown up at my door and showed me Serenity as the reason he should direct an Avengers movie, I'd have told him to pound asphalt. I fell asleep during that movie. (I did not asleep during The Avengers. t: )

Can't agree with you there. While not a rabid Firefly fan, I liked the show and thought the movie was superb (given its budget) - a far better film than any of the Star Wars prequels, and it reminded everyone that it's characters that make a film, then story and effects come a long way down the chain in terms of importance. If you make the characters likeable, even a B movie can be great fun. To each their own I guess.

If they wanted to go for an outrageous twist, they should have dialed up the female Mandarin. (But they decided they couldn't sell toys that way!)

But, no, I didn't care for the twist, and the entire movie was like Iron Man 2, there was just more of it. I'd love another film on par with the first one.

I like what Shane did back in the '80s. I'm older than you guys, haha. Lethal Weapon is awesome. (I like all the sequels, too. They got progressively more silly, but they're worth following.) But then he dropped the ball again and again: TLBS, LAH, TLKG, KKBB. If you pay attention, he keeps writing the same movie over and over. He got 4 million bucks for his TLKG script! He found his comfortable space and stayed there.

Now we're on the same page. IM 3 was a big let-down for the reasons you mentioned plus a bunch more. Nobody can take away Shane Black's work on Lethal Weapon, but he was the wrong guy for IM3. Personally, I loved Long Kiss Goodnight, mostly due to Sam Jackson's wisecracks - which he delivers with impeccable timing and emphasis.

Seriously overrated. He continues to get mad love for The Usual Suspects, but I'd rather he not do CBMs. His action scenes are remarkably, and consistently, tepid. That guy stepping away from the franchise is the best thing for it. We'll see if Kinberg's any better. But I think the first X-Men movie hasn't aged well, and Returns was a shameless pastiche-slash-total dud. Those who rate it above MoS are indulging their nostalgia for the Donner movies and nothing more. If Singer had actually made another Superman movie with the PZ trio, he would've dressed them in vinyl suits with pirate boots.

Yeah, couldn't agree with you more, I remember sitting in Superman Returns and thinking "sooner or later this will get good...." and it never did. I hated this film because it was a very limp homage to Donner's masterpiece, but utterly lacking the charm and grace of the first film.

Personally, I have very mixed views on Singer's X-movies. While each film seems to have at least one really memorable action sequence, the films as a whole are kind of forgettable. Singer somehow manages to make me not care, about a group who were my favorite super-team, back when I started reading comics back in the last 70's.

Sadly, XMA was the least engaging of the lot, with the most poorly adapted of all the X-Villains so far (well, except maybe Dark Phoenix).

 

[samsnee]

It's more of a shallow comparison, but characters that general audiences aren't familiar with (except Harley) put together as a rag-tag group of "heroes" who take on a bigger threat while they are watched over by a policing force. Shallow, yes, but it is what it is.

That and using pop culture songs every other scene. Guardians wasn’t the first movie to do it but they did a great job with executing it.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Can't agree with you there. While not a rabid Firefly fan, I liked the show and thought the movie was superb (given its budget) - a far better film than any of the Star Wars prequels, and it reminded everyone that it's characters that make a film, then story and effects come a long way down the chain in terms of importance. If you make the characters likeable, even a B movie can be great fun. To each their own I guess.




Now we're on the same page. IM 3 was a big let-down for the reasons you mentioned plus a bunch more. Nobody can take away Shane Black's work on Lethal Weapon, but he was the wrong guy for IM3. Personally, I loved Long Kiss Goodnight, mostly due to Sam Jackson's wisecracks - which he delivers with impeccable timing and emphasis.

Yeah, couldn't agree with you more, I remember sitting in Superman Returns and thinking "sooner or later this will get good...." and it never did. I hated this film because it was a very limp homage to Donner's masterpiece, but utterly lacking the charm and grace of the first film.

Personally, I have very mixed views on Singer's X-movies. While each film seems to have at least one really memorable action sequence, the films as a whole are kind of forgettable. Singer somehow manages to make me not care, about a group who were my favorite super-team, back when I started reading comics back in the last 70's.

Sadly, XMA was the least engaging of the lot, with the most poorly adapted of all the X-Villains so far (well, except maybe Dark Phoenix).

Man, was I literally the only person that kind of enjoyed Apocalypse? Maybe it's because he was never a comic book character that I ever cared for, and I found the religious undertones somewhat interesting. Now I agree that the whole survival of the fittest angle was beyond weak because he didn't do jack **** to make anything he was doing seem like it was in service of that plot point, but I didn't mind him personally. Maybe I didn't mind his representation, but I did find the rest of the film really weak. The younger versions of the X-babies were weak to say the least. How they took decent young actors and made them seem like **** in their roles, I have no idea. We all knew Sophie Turner was gonna suck, but Ty and Kodi were pretty ****** as well, and his horsemen didn't have enough screentime for anything of substance. I was beyond disappointed that they pissed away their second shot at Angel, and I'm so sick of Mystique in these movies. I wish Jlaw would stick to her statements about her being done with the franchise. You know...I guess it is really sad when the best thing I can say about the flick was I really dug Magneto's uniform.

As far as Superman Returns, I hated the thought process from the beginning. The Donner universe needs to be left in the past with Christopher Reeves. I felt that piggybacking on the sense of nostalgia was a pathetic way to try and get your foot in the door without actually bringing something worth while to the table.

I still think Shane Black did a great job, but different strokes for different folks. Do I think it could have been more interesting if they had been allowed to go with a female villain like they originally wanted to? Possibly. I'd have to see where they were going with it, but again, this is another aspect where I'm in the minority as I enjoyed the twist. Killian didn't need to proclaim himself the Mandarin. They could have left that out completely. Nobody needed to be the actual Mandarin after Trevor was revealed as a fraud. There could have been whispers about someone called the Mandarin, and Killian could have just used the name to drum up panic, but making him "the Mandarin" was a mistake. Trevor's twist though, I thoroughly enjoyed.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

Collider interview with Leto

http://collider.com/jared-leto-interview-blade-runner-2049-suicide-squad-2

Of course I have to ask you, Gavin O’Connor who I’m also a fan of is taking over this Suicide Squad. Do you know if you’re doing Suicide Squad 2, or like a Harley/Joker movie next year? Is that definitely coming up?

LETO: A lot of moving parts, we’ll see what happens. I think Gavin is incredibly talented, he seems to be the perfect director for Suicide Squad 2. I think he’s a really gifted filmmaker and I really love his work.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I didn't know O'Connor directed the pilot of The Americans. That's a damn strong show, and if I remember correctly, the pilot in particular was a very strong episode.

 

[Sorath]

WB went in with no game plan. Everything they have done was a knee jerk reaction to Avengers. BvS was the first film where they started to try and put some sort of plan in motion. I think they are continue that with Justice League.

The problem is that is all built on a crappy foundation. Man of Steel was not very good. BvS was so bad it wasn't even funny. It wasn't Superman Returns bad but it was bad enough. The only good DC film they done has been Wonder-Woman.

Justice is their last shot. If this film tanks that will be that. I doubt they can salvage the DCMU at that point. They will keep making Wonder-Woman and then after Wonder-Woman 3 or when Gal decides she doesn't want to do it any more they will put DC on back burner for a while.

The bottom line is WB made some piss poor choices. Almost all of it comes down to wrong writers or them reacting to Avengers; which I find hilarious. They want to be like Marvel so bad they rushing in but at same time don't want to take their time like Marvel did and do it right.

It's sad cause DCU would make for awesome films if done right and they just pissed it all away.

 

[terry78]

They're not playing these characters like the gods they pretty much are in the books. All of DC's characters are pretty much overpowered due to the time period they were created as opposed to Marvel where a lot of them are just mortals dealing with **** who also have limitations and issues regarding their powers. Every ****ing DC movie should be an event.

 

[ludovica]

I feel DC movies should take a sharp turn at this point: after Aquaman drop this universe, make just WW (and Aquaman if successful) in this continuity, return the Batman characters to a separate universe for the time being and concentrate on medium budgeted films of quirky characters.
Give us Booster Gold & Blue Beetle (but not from Berlanti please), Deadman, Static, Midnighter, you choose.
Then, if everything clicks, go big, Green Lantern Corps.
Leave room for retroactively connecting everything to the same universe, but do not make it the aim.

 

[NHawk19]

Any movie system they adapt needs to be almost a 3 tier one. I've said this about Marvel too.

Tier 1 - Single / small team up
Tier 2 - Big team up small event
Tier 3 - DC Level Big Event We're talking Crisis on Infinite Earth's or something.

The issue is that WB is still faced with re-doing stories again, re-booting again etc. re-launching again, and they're running out of angles to proceed from. Marvel's been able to stay fresh because they only have 2 recent re-launches (Hulk, Spider-man) in their universe and one isn't their fault.

WB should pretty much drop their universe and start over but they don't have the patience, and don't seem to want to do the leg work to base it on something besides the big names. They're to focused on getting the "iconic" scenes in like Death of Superman, and not focused enough on some of the other stuff like Superman: Birthright.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

The DCEU is dead. After Justice League from now on the DC films will all be stand alone movies. Basically what Wonder Woman was, with only a vague reference to the DCEU in the tie to Bruce Wayne. There will be no restart of the DCEU.

 

[FunkMiller]

The DCEU is dead. After Justice League from now on the DC films will all be stand alone movies. Basically what Wonder Woman was, with only a vague reference to the DCEU in the tie to Bruce Wayne. There will be no restart of the DCEU.

No it isn’t.

But it isn’t just going to be a carbon copy of the MCU - which let’s face it, it was going to be originally.

The films will still take place in the same ‘universe’ but will avoid all the nod-nod wink-wink **** that’s frankly completely played out by now. That’s been Marvel’s thing. Entirely correct that DC are now (finally) doing something different.

 

[mace1]

They're not playing these characters like the gods they pretty much are in the books. All of DC's characters are pretty much overpowered due to the time period they were created as opposed to Marvel where a lot of them are just mortals dealing with **** who also have limitations and issues regarding their powers.

I don't agree with this.
All of dc characters are not overpowered.
Some are and some are not.
Just like marvel.

by Caligula

not quite sure where people get this idea that DC characters are over-powered. Marvel has overpowered characters too. Both of a really powerful guys, and both have seemingly average guys.

Marvel tends to focus more on the superheroes that are not overpowered in media and in comics on average then DC but of course marvel does have many over powered heroes too.
OF COURSE IF YOU INCLUDE OTHER CHARACTERS THAT ARE NOT REALLY SUPERHEROES,THEN MARVEL DOES HAVE MORE OVERPOWERED CHARACTERS OVERALL THEN DC.
Marvel has really more overpowered characters on average then dc,but do not get as much focus to mainstream as dc characters on average.

Now i would say dc overall has more overpowered superheroes while marvel has more overpowered gods and cosmic types.
There are many marvel characters that are overpowered and alot that are not.

 

[XC_TF]

Right, all areas of comics have overpowered characters. It's not like there's a big difference there.

I would still say that DC is having trouble because they are putting the universe ahead of characters and allowing the directors to show their voice and tell a good story. Look at Wonder Woman, Patty Jenkins was able to tell a contained story with her voice and it turned out great critically and box office wise.

 

[terry78]

I feel DC's characters are, for lack of a better term, a little more epic than Marvel's, even though I appreciate both camps.

 

[dw4000]

I feel DC's characters are, for lack of a better term, a little more epic than Marvel's, even though I appreciate both camps.

They have tried to portray them as characters from mythology, so it makes sense they come off that way

 

[All-Father]

The DCEU is dead. After Justice League from now on the DC films will all be stand alone movies. Basically what Wonder Woman was, with only a vague reference to the DCEU in the tie to Bruce Wayne. There will be no restart of the DCEU.

Dead, no. But it is, and it will continue being, mediocre/bad.

 

[BigThor]

No it isn’t.

But it isn’t just going to be a carbon copy of the MCU - which let’s face it, it was going to be originally.

The films will still take place in the same ‘universe’ but will avoid all the nod-nod wink-wink **** that’s frankly completely played out by now. That’s been Marvel’s thing. Entirely correct that DC are now (finally) doing something different.

Which is best in my opinion, let Marvel be Marvel and DC be DC.