The Dark Knight Rises IESB: Script is IN!

[jmc]

I cannot see Nolan doing a 180 on this, not after 5 or 6 years of hammering into us that this Batman is in a world without superheroes.

 

[Crook]

Ditto. This batman is too grounded in reality to be taken seriously in a JL movie.

Man, get the f**k outta here!

How damn long have you been lambasting Nolan for not embracing the comic book elements? Now a rumor comes along that he wants to do just that, and even "better" because he would in-charge of how that transition takes place. Thanks for reaffirming that he can't do anything right in your eyes.

Look, I'm no fan of Nolan directing a JL film, but for very different reasons. But christ, I almost wish he actually did just to see so many fanboys backtrack when the film actually turns out superb.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Man, get the f**k outta here!

How damn long have you been lambasting Nolan for not embracing the comic book elements? Now a rumor comes along that he wants to do just that, and even "better" because he would in-charge of how that transition takes place. Thanks for reaffirming that he can't do anything right in your eyes.

Look, I'm no fan of Nolan directing a JL film, but for very different reasons. But christ, I almost wish he actually did just to see so many fanboys backtrack when the film actually turns out superb.

I was just saying that his Batman (in TDK especially) is too grounded in reality. For him to work next to guys like Superman, he needs to be more hax and a lot more mysterious. I mean, Batman would look ridiculous among the others, when everyone will be in spandex and he'll be standing there with his pads. He wears armour in the comics, but his shortcomings arent so blatantly obvious.

Perhaps if Nolan backtracks into a more Begins atmosphere and directorial style, his Batman could fit in the JL.

PS: Your avatar rocks!

 

[batman11]

Man, get the f**k outta here!

How damn long have you been lambasting Nolan for not embracing the comic book elements? Now a rumor comes along that he wants to do just that, and even "better" because he would in-charge of how that transition takes place. Thanks for reaffirming that he can't do anything right in your eyes.

Look, I'm no fan of Nolan directing a JL film, but for very different reasons. But christ, I almost wish he actually did just to see so many fanboys backtrack when the film actually turns out superb.

Damn Nolan for not making Batman "comic-booky" enough, and damn him for trying to provide a transition into a world where Batman is a little more "comic-booky".

t:

I'm pumped about the news. If Nolan does have as a big a role in all this as is being reported, then I have no doubt that it will be handled with care. But hey, there's always those that have their doubts. However, if one honestly thinks that Nolan won't provide some sort of viable explanation and transition, then I really don't know what to say.

 

[TheBatman072]

Damn Nolan for not making Batman "comic-booky" enough, and damn him for trying to provide a transition into a world where Batman is a little more "comic-booky".

t:

I'm pumped about the news. If Nolan does have as a big a role in all this as is being reported, then I have no doubt that it will be handled with care. But hey, there's always those that have their doubts. However, if one honestly thinks that Nolan won't provide some sort of viable explanation and transition, then I really don't know what to say.

I do. But I'd probably be banned for it.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Damn Nolan for not making Batman "comic-booky" enough, and damn him for trying to provide a transition into a world where Batman is a little more "comic-booky".

t:

I'm pumped about the news. If Nolan does have as a big a role in all this as is being reported, then I have no doubt that it will be handled with care. But hey, there's always those that have their doubts. However, if one honestly thinks that Nolan won't provide some sort of viable explanation and transition, then I really don't know what to say.

Oh come on. Yes damn him for not making Batman comic booky enough, but now that he has, we re stuck with him. We cant take him and get him to fight Darkseid when not even Manbat is allowed in the Nolanverse.

 

[COMPO]

we're not stuck with him Nolan will probably be gone by the next film and a new director will do his own thing.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Oh come on. Yes damn him for not making Batman comic booky enough, but now that he has, we re stuck with him. We cant take him and get him to fight Darkseid when not even Manbat is allowed in the Nolanverse.

Stuck with him?

 

[Figs]

Man, get the f**k outta here!

How damn long have you been lambasting Nolan for not embracing the comic book elements? Now a rumor comes along that he wants to do just that, and even "better" because he would in-charge of how that transition takes place. Thanks for reaffirming that he can't do anything right in your eyes.

Look, I'm no fan of Nolan directing a JL film, but for very different reasons. But christ, I almost wish he actually did just to see so many fanboys backtrack when the film actually turns out superb.

Personally I think most of that is rumour that will be debunked in the near future. I just don't see Nolan wanting to take the time to oversee all of those films. Superman has pretty much been confirmed and it seems extremely likely he will return to direct Batman 3 but it would be strange for him to take the time helping with the other films.

As Crook said, if he were to direct a JL film it would probably be great but after Batman 3 I would rather see him do more original films. Overseeing the projects would be great but I wouldn't want him to take too much time out of his schedule since I really like his work that doesn't involve comic characters.

 

[batman11]

Oh come on. Yes damn him for not making Batman comic booky enough, but now that he has, we re stuck with him. We cant take him and get him to fight Darkseid when not even Manbat is allowed in the Nolanverse.

So all we need to do is get Nolan to put Manbat in B3 and then we should be good to go with Darkseid? t:

Dude, I'm not saying I disagree with the fact that Nolan has crafted a world grounded in somewhat of a reality. I know that. It's clear. But to simply write off ever trying a transition because of the established world is being, in my opinion, a tad close-minded. How long has Batman actually been in existence in Nolan's films? A year and a bit? Who's to say that escalation doesn't go one step further, and start to incorporate a little bit of the supernatural? If an alien ship landed in NYC tomorrow, would you dismiss it because your life has been grounded in reality? Or would you question WTF is going on and why is this happening? t: (I know, an obscure example, but thinking about it, that would actually make an interesting element if this rumor pans out. Bruce would have to come to terms with such an occurrence, just as we would in real life.)

Yes, Nolan has stated that Batman is grounded in this realistic world, but perhaps he's found an opening, and a story that allows him to transition into a much larger universe. As I mentioned before, I don't think Nolan's just going to make it come out of the blue. If he pursues this, you can bet that he's going to have some sort of plan to transition it, whether fans accept it or not.

Now, this is all of course hypothetical, as this is probably nothing more than some crazy rumor. But it's still fun to talk about it.

 

[Bathead]

If true (and that's a big"IF") it's a bit early to either condemn or praise this yet. I like to maintain a positive attitude on these kinda things, and I can see great potential for this being really awesome news, however, I can see why some might get a little nervous about it. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[JokerLedger]

I cannot see Nolan doing a 180 on this, not after 5 or 6 years of hammering into us that this Batman is in a world without superheroes.

5-6 years of Hammering us?
That's exaggeration...
I recall he only made like a comment or two about his view on Batman and the Justice League.

He wasn't happy about WB making a justice league movie including a different batman... now that there's a possibility that the next JL movie ties with all the other movies, he can have a change of heart.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Stuck with him?

I know fan boys are the worst you can give them an oscar worthy film but if batman's not in spandex "it teh sux".

 

[Bruce Malone]

And if nolan really is involved with a future JL movie and that's a big IF. Its probably only because he cares for the batman character and would hate to see WB put out a watered down batman in some JL movie after the batman he resurected in his trillogy.

 

[jmc]

5-6 years of Hammering us?
That's exaggeration...
I recall he only made like a comment or two about his view on Batman and the Justice League.

He wasn't happy about WB making a justice league movie including a different batman... now that there's a possibility that the next JL movie ties with all the other movies, he can have a change of heart.

I suggest watching the DVD extras on Batman Begins.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I wouldn't be surprised at Nolan getting deeper into the DC film universe. Sure, at first it seemed like his Batman was a self-contained thing. But you have to figure - his brother is a huge comic fan, Goyer is a huge comic fan/writer, and he's learned a lot, spent half a decade engrossed in comics, working with WB and DC. Maybe the prospects of Superman, Justice League, etc have just become more appealing to him?

I think it's great, if true. Especially coupled with Geoff Johns and the rest of the restructured DC Entertainment. The DC film universe seems to be in good hands.

It's about time they start showing some solidarity and get off their butts!

 

[frakkingoff]

How long has Batman actually been in existence in Nolan's films? A year and a bit? Who's to say that escalation doesn't go one step further, and start to incorporate a little bit of the supernatural?

You're misunderstanding the entire theme of escalation and why it's important.

The entire point of escalation was that Batman was the one who started escalating things. It was Batman who started all the weirdness, by dressing up, by taking the fight to the criminals, by using fear as a weapon. Only afterward does the criminal element decide to step things up, by putting on makeup and costumes. It's a response to Batman's actions.

Thus, by fighting the original criminal element - the mob and corruption - Batman has inadvertently made Gotham City more dangerous, since he lit the spark of escalation. His goal was to clean up Gotham and make it safe for others, by fighting the mob. But he actually set Gotham back, by inspiring more craziness (both vigilantes and criminals) and more weirdness. Things didn't go to a bright calm future, they began to spiral into a nonsensical, horrific nightmare. That was what Nolan had been trying to say, regarding the theme - "Things have to get worse before they can get better."

The world made sense beforehand. It sucked, thanks to crime and corruption, but it made sense. Escalation lead to it making no sense, it made it truly crazy - a world without rules. "Things are worse than ever."

The point then is that Bruce suffers the guilt of a failed hero, because escalation is squarely on his shoulders. He caused it. The escalation into craziness was his responsibility. He set out to do something and it had the opposite effect, and that is the tragedy. That creates the emotional resonance.

And this is exactly why escalation can't "go one step further" and incorporate the supernatural.

Because if a baby from Krypton showed up in a farmland 30 years earlier...

...If an intergalactic police force entrusted a human with the safety of this sector and gave him the most powerful weapon in the universe...

...If a group of super-powered women exist in this world, settling on a magically hidden island...

...then the supernatural has nothing to do with the escalation caused by Batman and his actions. The weirdness already existed in his world, regardless of what was going on in Gotham City. It's likely that the weirdness would have spread to include Gotham, if it hadn't already, whether or not Bruce Wayne ever decided to put on a mask and fight crime as a Bat.

And that takes away from the tragedy of "The Dark Knight" and the weight that Bruce must carry.

He regrets being Batman, after Rachel dies, because he knows the craziness of the Joker would never have been unleashed if he hadn't become Batman.

But if you then decide to abandon the conceit that the world isn't supernatural, if you give up the notion that there are no super-powered beings who fight crime out there, then you must allow for the fact that criminals like the Joker would have arisen even if Batman had never begun. And you take away the emotional core of "The Dark Knight" and Batman's journey.

I don't think Nolan would want to cripple the impact of his own "The Dark Knight" or make it less meaningful, for the sake of the Justice League movie.

 

[Crook]

WTF that is one massive leap of logic you just twisted.

 

[chintai80]

I suggest watching the DVD extras on Batman Begins.

don't have my begins dvd available now. borrowed it off. lol

what was said in the extras?

 

[General Vulcun]

Even though the world of Nolan's Batman is a real looking one, it's still a universe all its own. A universe where there are microwave emitters. A universe where sonar cellphones exist. A universe where a men (and possibly women *wink* *wink*) dress up in costumes and fight crime.

I read a few opinions on how Nolan's realistic take fails at staying "real" because of a couple of these elements, but what I think they're missing here is that because of elements such as these is why this universe Nolan has created isn't as real as they think he intends it to be. Nolan's Batman does mirror our world to a degree, but the rules do not.

A "real" world is not just a visual replica of our world, it's also a feeling, an interraction, how people and objects interract with each other. We identify with characters in these worlds, from Batman to Dent to Gordon. They have recognizable characteristics that we can see in others and ourselves, but that does not mean, no matter how "real" they may look, that they are of our world. Just look at Disney films, and how these same characteristics are applied to (usually) animals. Granted, they are animated and none human, but that doesn't keep us from being moved by these characters and their conflicts as if they were of this world, and I think the same applies here.

The Joker, for another example, appears to be a man (a man, albeit a psychotic, like in our world), but is practically an omniscient character altogether. He plans with such precision and intricacy, knowing practically what Batman, Gordon, and Dent are going to do. He has the physical qualities of a "real" man, but he's also supernatural, much in the same way that Hannibal Lecter is supernatural (Silence of the Lambs is also set in a "real" world).

Just because Nolan's world looks real and sometimes even feels real doesn't mean it is real, that there isn't room for supernatural elements. There are, and there already has been. I'm not quite saying that there's room in Nolan's world for characters like Manbat or Clayface (depending on the type of supernatural elements Nolan uses and how he uses them, of course), but I believe the notion that Nolan's Batman resides in this grounded, real-world to be not entirely true to Nolan's approach to the character and the world he lives in.

 

[david icke]

Personally I think most of that is rumour that will be debunked in the near future. I just don't see Nolan wanting to take the time to oversee all of those films. Superman has pretty much been confirmed and it seems extremely likely he will return to direct Batman 3 but it would be strange for him to take the time helping with the other films.

As Crook said, if he were to direct a JL film it would probably be great but after Batman 3 I would rather see him do more original films. Overseeing the projects would be great but I wouldn't want him to take too much time out of his schedule since I really like his work that doesn't involve comic characters.

I know what you mean, but, a lot of directors who are auteurs, still like to take time outs from their original screenplays to do adaptations of other people's material.
Nolan could just be very interested and invested in this series of adaptations now.
Look at how Shyamalan has burnt himself out by writing and directing original screenplays over and over, but is now taking a time out from that and doing an adaptation.
Nolan is now coming up with his own story in Inception, and coming up with the story for Batman3 apparently, it seems the writing bug is biting him more and more, and he'll want time to gestate his own ideas, but still work in the meantime.

As someone else said, he may feel invested to the point where he doesn't want someone else to mess up BM in a JL move, and also, he may just want to direct the movie as it would be a huge thrill. He was into science fiction comics like 2000AD as a kid, JL would suit those tastes.

and as for Batman not existing in a world of superheroes, yes, Nolan made that decision as he wanted Bruce to come up with his direction of fighting crime from scratch, not looking to others for inspiration. That doesn't mean other superheroes could not enter this universe afterwards.

 

[J.Howlett]

Vulcun,

Your post is pretty much on the nose when it comes to Nolan's Batman universe. The word "real" has been thrown around way too often when discussing these films.

The word that needs to be more often used is "plausible." Nolan has crafted two films that make it plausible for Batman to exist, even with the fantastical elements. Those elements have been given plausibility(through the writing), hence the reason we can accept them in these films.

His Batman "could" work in a Justice League film.

 

[Travesty]

I know fan boys are the worst you can give them an oscar worthy film but if batman's not in spandex "it teh sux".

I know fan boys are the worst you make a more serious Batman movie and they think it should win every oscar award cause "its teh awesumz".

 

[Doctor Jones]

Something even worse is when people can't embrace different interpretations of the character. Batman is really the only comic character where you can have many different interpretations, and it's still Batman. It doesn't have to be your Batman, but it doesn't mean it's not bad. Like BATB. It's not my Batman but it kicks ass. I really don't have a definitive Batman, only certain elements (ie: self contained, no crossovers) Whatever is good I can accept.

But seriously, leave Nolan be with JL. I think that's just a rumor anyway. No way would the man who said that his Batman is a self contained film and was a major reasont the JL film was scrapped do such a thing. He doesn't even need to do it. Let him be and do his own thing.

 

[Travesty]

Something even worse is when people can't embrace different interpretations of the character. Batman is really the only comic character where you can have many different interpretations, and it's still Batman. It doesn't have to be your Batman, but it doesn't mean it's not bad. Like BATB. It's not my Batman but it kicks ass. I really don't have a definitive Batman, only certain elements (ie: self contained, no crossovers) Whatever is good I can accept.

Well, that's all subjective. Just because I'm a die hard Metallica fan, doesn't mean I'm going to pretend to like Load & Reload, when I know those albums are a piece of crap. Just because you're a fan of something, doesn't mean you have to pretend to like every incarnation/interpretation, of whatever it is you like.