The Dark Knight Rises IESB: Script is IN!

[Texas Zombie]

She felt remorse though, and i believe they threatened her family.

PS I never believed anything Caine said, because everything seemed like a lie.

 

[Solidus]

Caine was not the only one that said it though. I believe Freeman may have hinted at it, but I could be wrong.

Regardless, I still think he does know something. Out of all of them Caine works with Nolan the most. He has been in all his movies since BB. So I'm sure he may know more then some others.

 

[flickchick85]

She does not know what Dent really did. He never claimed to killing anyone. Hell he could have been bluffing like he did with Shiff. She was not killed by him, what could she really say? I think she would be too afraid to do anything anyways, like I said before. She really has no evidence, but everyone else does against her and her working with the mob. I think she would rather have nothing to do with that. Dent is dead, there should not be any extensive focusing on his story still. It should be Bats rebuilding his name in a sense, or dealing with how life is for him and how it always will be.

She's a cop - I'm sure she put two-and-two together when she'd heard about what happened to the others, after her own experience and witnessing "the new Harvey Dent" first-hand. And no, she wouldn't have evidence, I never said she did. I just said she's the one crooked person left who would have any clue about the truth, and if the right person got to her, they might leave her no choice but to divulge what she knows. And I agree that Bats rebuilding his name should be the focus, but imo, that is inextricably tied to the truth about Dent - and that aspect should not be completely ignored.

 

[Texas Zombie]

I dont question caines track record, but maybe hes a bit senile

 

[TheBatman072]

Where did you get they threatened her family?

She didn't have the money to pay for her mother's hospital bills, so she took bribes.

She even said as much when Dent confronted her.

 

[Texas Zombie]

They got me early on my mothers hospital bills.
She needed money, for her family, it's not like she spent it gambling.
She took money from the mob, if you take money from the mob and do not repay them.

DEATH

 

[TheBatman072]

They got me early on my mothers hospital bills.
She needed money, for her family, it's not like she spent it gambling.
She took money from the mob, if you take money from the mob and do not repay them.

DEATH

Yes. I know.

Where in there does it say they threatened her family?

 

[Dirt Like Me]

She's cop - I'm sure she put two-and-two together when she'd heard about what happened to the others, after her own experience and witnessing "the new Harvey Dent" first-hand. And no, she wouldn't have evidence, I never said she did. I just said she's the one crooked person left who would have any clue about the truth, and if the right person got to her, they might leave her no choice but to divulge what she knows. And I agree that Bats rebuilding his name should be the focus, but imo, that is inextricably tied to the truth about Dent - and that aspect should not be completely ignored.

I agree completely. And I don't think Ramirez has to be on the run. In fact, I could see her using what she knows as leverage against Gordon, because she knows that he's also harboring a secret (the Dent cover up) that would ruin him if it became public knowlege. She could stay on the force that way, and Gordon's hands would be tied.

If she's in the next movie, she could be the thing that stands between Gordon and a clean on-the-up-and-up GCPD. She could also feed information to a Rupert Thorne type. It wouldn't have to be a big role, and she could be killed off easily, but she could serve as a means of connecting the two movies.

Then I'd have Thorne hire Deadshot to kill Gordon and Batman so that he can win the special election for Mayor. And the Joker would come back in a small, but super-awesome role to make sure nobody kills his soulmate Batman. But then there's a reason I don't write movies, too.

 

[Solidus]

I agree completely. And I don't think Ramirez has to be on the run. In fact, I could see her using what she knows as leverage against Gordon, because she knows that he's also harboring a secret (the Dent cover up) that would ruin him if it became public knowlege. She could stay on the force that way, and Gordon's hands would be tied.

If she's in the next movie, she could be the thing that stands between Gordon and a clean on-the-up-and-up GCPD. She could also feed information to a Rupert Thorne type. It wouldn't have to be a big role, and she could be killed off easily, but she could serve as a means of connecting the two movies.

Then I'd have Thorne hire Deadshot to kill Gordon and Batman so that he can win the special election for Mayor. And the Joker would come back in a small, but super-awesome role to make sure nobody kills his soulmate Batman. But then there's a reason I don't write movies, too.

She does not know anything. She knows Dent went nuts on her for being an accessory to his lovers death. But other then that she really has no solid ground to know that Gordon is covering up anything.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

She does not know anything. She knows Dent went nuts on her for being an accessory to his lovers death. But other then that she really has no solid ground to know that Gordon is covering up anything.

Ramirez saw Two-Face, and knows that he was interested in people who got murdered. She also knows that Harvey Dent got what appeared to be a ceremonial funeral and was/is regarded as a hero.

She doesn't need solid evidence that would build a case to stand up in court in order have leverage against Gordon.

I understand that you don't think these elements are important. But do you really think Batman's redemption can happen without a connection to the events that tarnished his reputation?

 

[Solidus]

Ramirez saw Two-Face, and knows that he was interested in people who got murdered. She also knows that Harvey Dent got what appeared to be a ceremonial funeral and was/is regarded as a hero.

She doesn't need solid evidence that would build a case to stand up in court in order have leverage against Gordon.

I understand that you don't think these elements are important. But do you really think Batman's redemption can happen without a connection to the events that tarnished his reputation?

First, no she saw Dent, with a scarred face that she was responsible for his disfiguration. He talked about a guy that got killed, a man who worked with the mob and the Joker as well. Death is a common thing in such a field. She hears that Batman killed them. What more could she say?

As for the themes, the element that is important is Batman just getting through it. The fact is now the city hates him. This has been a common thing in the comics and was never explained fully just more so for common sense. In the Comics/other media types many cops and officials do not like Batman. They see him as a vigilante, that is what TDK created at the end. Because Batman was never a public hero in a lot of forums of the Batman history. Though yes there were many examples of him being a hero to the officials as well but it is clear Nolan has taken the other path.

What we have now is Batman being seen even more as a vigilante, who works outside of the law. So this is nothing different. The story would be more interesting to see him dealing with it in other ways, not actually fixing it. Batman has never had 100% public love. So most likely he never will again, which is part of the Batman lore. He's the shadow in the night, he's not some shining wonderful hero. He is the Dark Knight. No one will ever really love him. Some will of course, but not all. Its just the way his life goes.

Would I be mad if they had some connections with the Dent fiasco? No, I would not be, it would be fine for connection. But the focus on that itself would be retreading old ground and be stale and old. He needs to face new challenges for the most part, not old ones.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

I understand what you're saying.

I would disagree in the sense that I think Batman being considered a vigilante and a murderer are pretty different in the public eye. That's why I think the resolution needs to be rooted in TDK events. But I'm with you about wanting to see him face new challenges, too.

While I'm looking forward to discussing this stuff until the Summer of 2012, for now I'm calling it a night. It's been fun, Solidus. Take it easy.

 

[SpiderByte]

Excuse me....

 

[jmc]

Bloody hell, I never thought a character with like 4 lines in a film could cause so much discussion. Ramirez's story is not a loose end, fill in the rest yourself folks, she ran off, she was arrested, she kept her mouth shut, pick one, you don't need Nolan spoon feeding you what happened to this character, she'll play no part in film 3, put money on it.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Look at it this way.

After the end of TDK. Barbra will have obviously told Gordon about Ramirez. So I think its safe to say she will have fled out of fear of the consequences. Its also probally unlikely she is one of the 5 dead,as Gordon had know way of knowing she was threatened by Two-Face. But will she leave her sick mother and try to blackmail Gordon into paying for more medical bills?

Reese. He knows Batman's identity,but it looks like he will keep quiet as a way of repaying Bruce for saving him. People might still be after him, for fear of the Joker trying something else and he too will probally have fled Gotham as well.

Good'ol Mr 'smug' Maroni. I dont think he is dead. But I think he will be ruined. As I imagine in the crash,he will probally end up in a coma or a wheelchair, and other mob bosses have been like Vultures at his businesses. But maybe he was one of the 5? Not as lucky as he thought?

But I still think a certain villain will find out the truth about everything,and use them in his plot.

 

[That-Guy]

I still think that the best way to resolve everything is to have Harvey come back. I know, he's dead, it's confirmed, blah blah blah. Doesn't change my opinion. If Two-Face returned and exposed the cover-up of the murders to the public, everyone would be on Batman's side again but they'd distrust the police department even more. But that doesn't really matter since everyone knew that most of Gotham's cops are dirty anyway.

 

[Jokers_Wild]

haha...nice to see some spirited discussion in here already!

I would bet my life that Ramirez will not be back in the next one! She is only a minor character, and at worst will end up being charged by Gordon and the others for corruption. At best, she would fade away and lie low from all this stuff so as not to implicate herself. Either way, no one would believe anything she says regarding Dent. She has no credibility, and really has little information to go on.

Nolan will move on from these characters, like he moved on from Flass in Begins. He will introduce new characters for the third chapter.

What's all this Riddler talk though? Has there been some credible rumors that he will be a character in the next one, or just still speculation?

 

[Dirt Like Me]

haha...nice to see some spirited discussion in here already!

Hells yeah. And it's never too early to start finding hypothetical dead horses to beat on.

I would bet my life that Ramirez will not be back in the next one! She is only a minor character, and at worst will end up being charged by Gordon and the others for corruption. At best, she would fade away and lie low from all this stuff so as not to implicate herself. Either way, no one would believe anything she says regarding Dent. She has no credibility, and really has little information to go on.

Nolan will move on from these characters, like he moved on from Flass in Begins. He will introduce new characters for the third chapter.

I'm not hell-bent on including Helen Ramirez in the next movie. It just seems to me that Batman can't really be redeemed as long as he and Gordon perpetuate the cover-up surrounding Harvey Dent.

If the Wertz murder is pinned on Batman that makes him a cop killer. There's no way to live down that perception, no matter how many microwave emitters he stops, psychopaths he captures, (or riddles he solves?). The cops could tolerate a vigilante as a necessary evil, like they do in the great Gotham Central comic series. (The "official policy" that Gordon told Dent about in TDK is in line with this idea, too). But I can't imagine any situation where the GCPD would ever be alright with letting somebody who killed one of their own operate in the city.

As for Ramirez, I just think she's is a character who (apparently) survived TDK and knows (at least some of) the the truth about Harvey, but isn't in on the coverup. She might serve some story purpose in revealing the truth.

What's all this Riddler talk though? Has there been some credible rumors that he will be a character in the next one, or just still speculation?

I think it's all speculation. Michael Caine and Gary Oldman might have said they think that's the route Nolan will take, but there's certainly nothing definite. I think Caine also brought up the Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Johnny Depp rumor, too.

I'm not that crazy about the Riddler idea, personally.

 

[Bad Superman]

I imagine Riddler similar to Jigsaw from Saw without the gore.

 

[spiderfan970]

I imagine Riddler similar to Jigsaw from Saw without the gore.

Isn't that already kind of what the Joker was? I mean the whole third act with the boats and all?

 

[Ekricket]

I imagine Riddler similar to Jigsaw from Saw without the gore.

Yeah, or like the Green Lantern without the Lantern, and a question mark on his suit.
Or The Hulk, without the Hulk part, and a question mark on his skin.
Or like Superman, without the Super part, and a green suit instead of a red and blue one, with a question mark on it.

Something like that!

 

[Rodrigo90]

Many people say Dark Victory should be the inspiration for 3's plot. But the criticism with DV,that is already being voiced with 3,is that it heavily used its predecessor for support. You had to read TLH in order to understand DV,and that was criticised. So they shouldn't set up 3 directly after TDK's events.

I dont think the movie should be everybody's focus on catching Batman and discovering who he is. I think it should start a year or 2. Where things can develop and the Harvey Dent scenario will be finished entirely and all those loose ends can be overlooked and forgotten. A fresh story can take place. The focus should be on Batman dealing with a bigger threat that equals the Joker's,while still being a wanted fugitive, and that villain also goes after Bruce Wayne.

Riddler could still drag up the past though,but its not essential at all.

 

[jmc]

I agree with this, you can pick up the story a year or two down the line where Batman is still public enemy number one, all this stuff about having to tie up the Dent issue is a load of bollocks, the Dent issue is over, hell I don't even think you have to deal with Batman 'redeeming' himself to the police and the public, it's time to move on to the next story arc.

 

[Brother Jack]

I imagine Riddler similar to Jigsaw from Saw without the gore.

Riddler is not a serial killer!

 

[Lando81]

Hhhhhhhhheeeeeeeelllllllssssss yea