If Everything Going On Is So Awful...

[roach]

why was Chuck Austen's run on Uncanny so long????
Why is Liefeld a profitable artist?????

 

[GNR]

why is Roach a non-stop whining machine?

 

[roach]

why is Roach a non-stop whining machine?

He keeps on going and going and going

 

[Prognosticator]

I dropped most of my Marvel titles after CW didn't live up to expectations...TOO COSTLY, NOT NEARLY ENOUGH SATISFACTION

On the other hand, my DC subscriptions have been steady even after IC and OYL hooplah dies down... "they" new how to manage an "event theme" well and not BLOW everything that happens to sh**.

 

[Prognosticator]

edit

 

[JackBauer]

the obvious excuse: it's like a car wreck. you want to stop looking, but you can't.

 

[roach]

why is Roach a non-stop whining machine?

you want to know why I whine all the time. I have stopped collecting comics. I have collected since I was 7 and handed my Dad's box of comics and I no longer feel the urge to buy. Marvel has ruined their characters to me.

 

[Doc Destruction]

you want to know why I whine all the time. I have stopped collecting comics. I have collected since I was 7 and handed my Dad's box of comics and I no longer feel the urge to buy. Marvel has ruined their characters to me.

Pssst, lots of good DC titles still going. And a LOT of non-flagship books at Marvel still rock. I'd give it to the X-books that they are rapidly improving as well.

I do agree with a lot of people who say that CW is real bad mischaracterizations. The lines between Ultiverse and 616 are REALLY blurry right now, and I don't dig it. I do NOT buy those books, so I do speak with my money.

 

[GNR]

you want to know why I whine all the time. I have stopped collecting comics. I have collected since I was 7 and handed my Dad's box of comics and I no longer feel the urge to buy. Marvel has ruined their characters to me.

So why do you waste your time complaining about developments in a medium of entertainment you don't even pursue anymore?Are you really that bitter of a fanboy?

 

[roach]

So why do you waste your time complaining about developments in a medium of entertainment you don't even pursue anymore?Are you really that bitter of a fanboy?

actually I dont complain as much as I used to and while I have dropped comics I still use this place as my nicotene patch

 

[Bishop2]

you want to know why I whine all the time. I have stopped collecting comics. I have collected since I was 7 and handed my Dad's box of comics and I no longer feel the urge to buy. Marvel has ruined their characters to me.

Amen, brother. I feel your pain.

Honestly, if you want to enjoy comics these days, you've gotta think outside the box - look into some of the more obscure characters that Marvel's not really jacking with.

 

[GNR]

Pssst, lots of good DC titles still going. And a LOT of non-flagship books at Marvel still rock. I'd give it to the X-books that they are rapidly improving as well.

I do agree with a lot of people who say that CW is real bad mischaracterizations. The lines between Ultiverse and 616 are REALLY blurry right now, and I don't dig it. I do NOT buy those books, so I do speak with my money.

I have no problem with Cap being a badass.He grew up in the bronx so the whole "pampered punk" speech was fine.Cap's always been a soldier,not some smiling poster boy for the US.It's about damn time writers like Brubaker and Millar made light of this.

CW really takes a toll on some books after a while,I agree.Which is why I simply stuck with the main book and dropped all the tie-ins.I'm only sticking with Cap,Daredevil,Hulk(3 of Marvel's best ongoings),Iron Fist and Punisher War Journal for the forseeable future.For once my list is split 50/50 between the big 2!

 

[Marcdachamp]

People are sheep. That's why.

That's a very condescending attitude.

I've been reading Marvel for nearly 14 years. I think Civil War is one of the best things I've ever read. Does that make me a sheep?

 

[Bishop2]

That's a very condescending attitude.

I've been reading Marvel for nearly 14 years. I think Civil War is one of the best things I've ever read. Does that make me a sheep?

It makes you someone with memory loss issues, apparently, if you don't notice all the mischaracterizations in this story after reading Marvel for 14 years.

Or alternatively, perhaps that doesn't really bother you, which is fine.

 

[Darthphere]

Yes.


I honestly am happy with most of my Marvel titles, CW #4 had some lame aspects but if you read my review youll see im still enjoying it. And im constantly pluggin titles I love like X-Factor and Moon Knight, DD, Cap. Ive made an honest effort to not dwell on the negative as much, as I have grown to be known around here as the guy who *****es about everything, which isnt true, IMO. Overall, on topic. Elijya covered all the points already, which is true, but like always sales do not equal quality. And people buy stuff that is crap, for several reasons. Like how I buy Wizard magazine every month. Why do i buy it? Maybe because of the previews? The unbias reviews? Ok, lol, funny.

 

[Marcdachamp]

It makes you someone with memory loss issues, apparently, if you don't notice all the mischaracterizations in this story after reading Marvel for 14 years.

Or alternatively, perhaps that doesn't really bother you, which is fine.

Or maybe it makes me someone who disagrees with you. I think Cap, Reed and Tony are being pushed to their extremes, but that's what war does. It pushes you. These guys don't have a lot of options. They're standing for what they believe in, and the sad thing about war is that it's the middle-grounders that get hurt the most. They desperatly want an option "c", and they won't get it.

Cap's a boy from the Bronx who believes deeply in freedom and the American ideals. Tony's a republican boy raised in corporate America. Reed's a man who doesn't realize the importance of scientific boundaries. This is a man who tried to prevent his friend from reaching Heaven! Meanwhile, Spider-Man sees the extremes and realizes how quickly this could spiral out of control. If McCarthyism makes a come-back, his family could be in far greater danger than they would be if he unmasked. Instead, he stays with the law in order to shape it towards the light.

These are characters that are being forced into situations. When people are forced into things, they react differently than they would if given time. I really believe that the characters are reacting in logical ways, given each of their pasts.

 

[Darthphere]

I have no problem with Cap being a badass.He grew up in the bronx so the whole "pampered punk" speech was fine.Cap's always been a soldier,not some smiling poster boy for the US.It's about damn time writers like Brubaker and Millar made light of this.

Millar and Brubaker's takes on Cap are very much different.

 

[Varient]

If Marvel had Cahonees ??? they would use CW to make Tony a villian

?????

He's not?

Look at the warm up:

his alt that showed up in team up,.. totally evil.

He has been total evilman in his own title.

He's not too broke up about his financed creation killing one "hero" and then trying to kill roughly twenty otrhers
(And before someone sez it,.. he spends more money going to the bathroom in ironman armor than it cost to bury Giant man.)

He apparently financed Damagecontrol and furnished them tech at cost as they waddled over to the darkside.

Yup,........... he'll be a villian or get a mindwipe like they did with Kang.

 

[Bishop2]

Or maybe it makes me someone who disagrees with you. I think Cap, Reed and Tony are being pushed to their extremes, but that's what war does. It pushes you. These guys don't have a lot of options. They're standing for what they believe in, and the sad thing about war is that it's the middle-grounders that get hurt the most. They desperatly want an option "c", and they won't get it.

...

These are characters that are being forced into situations. When people are forced into things, they react differently than they would if given time. I really believe that the characters are reacting in logical ways, given each of their pasts.

But uh... they created the war though. I mean, Tony and Reed and the pro-reg gang... there was no "war" until they were already acting like asses and attacking the anti-reg heroes who were their friends. It was their behavior that created war, not a war that created the behavior.

And does this situation really "push them" any more than some of the situations they face every damn day? No... in fact, I'd argue it's LESS significant than many of them. Go back to "Unthinkable"... Reed's son is sent to HELL, being tormented for hours by hideous demons. His family is captured by Doom and TORTURED. That's worse than heroic in-fighting over some new law, I'd damn well say. So yes, he gets stressed. He snaps at Stephen Strange a couple of times as Strange tries to help him learn some method of striking back. But he doesn't become an all-out dick. He's a million miles away from a guy who would clone other heroes in order to make powerful zombie drones for an army that will pummel their old friends.

 

[Marcdachamp]

But uh... they created the war though. I mean, Tony and Reed and the pro-reg gang... there was no "war" until they were already acting like asses and attacking the anti-reg heroes who were their friends. It was their behavior that created war, not a war that created the behavior.

And does this situation really "push them" any more than some of the situations they face every damn day? No... in fact, I'd argue it's LESS significant than many of them. Go back to "Unthinkable"... Reed's son is sent to HELL, being tormented for hours by hideous demons. His family is captured by Doom and TORTURED. That's worse than heroic in-fighting over some new law, I'd damn well say. So yes, he gets stressed. He snaps at Stephen Strange a couple of times as Strange tries to help him learn some method of striking back. But he doesn't become an all-out dick. He's a million miles away from a guy who would clone other heroes in order to make powerful zombie drones for an army that will pummel their old friends.

Tony and Reed didn't create the war: the law did. The law required them to register or be brought in. They are doing what SHIELD and the government tell them. If you want to blame anyone, blame the guys who fired on Captain America when he said he wouldn't capture his friends.

Reed's scientific inquiry has gotten the best of him hundreds of times. Hell, ask Ben Grimm. It's not like Reed wanted to create a killing machine. He wanted to create something that would bring in those breaking the law so that lives could be spared. It backfired, yes, but Reed's being given what he sees as a scientific opportunity of a lifetime. We've all seen how Reed can miss the obvious when he gets worked up.

 

[Fading]

Tony and Reed didn't create the war: the law did. The law required them to register or be brought in. They are doing what SHIELD and the government tell them. If you want to blame anyone, blame the guys who fired on Captain America when he said he wouldn't capture his friends.

Reed's scientific inquiry has gotten the best of him hundreds of times. Hell, ask Ben Grimm. It's not like Reed wanted to create a killing machine. He wanted to create something that would bring in those breaking the law so that lives could be spared. It backfired, yes, but Reed's being given what he sees as a scientific opportunity of a lifetime. We've all seen how Reed can miss the obvious when he gets worked up.

Remind me again which 'hero' futurist had the idea to start this law, and says he saw it coming? This law was Stark's idea in the first place, and one which apparently he's 'known' would happen eventually. Villains have been reaking havoc for years, Ultron's killed tons, Magneto and his acolytes have done damage and so on, never saw a mass move by the government to crack down on them. More seemed they just let hero's keep going after villains at their own pace, and don't say the government couldn't do something because plastic made nukes could have been developed and dropped on mags, or whatever. That's what I think most ppl have problems with, while what set this up was tragic, it's hardly the worst thing to happen in the MU. Yet that incident set up a 'war', where their going to extremes they've never gone to before. I mean if some villain were to go crazed and start demolishing a city they'd gather what teams they could and fight him head on in comic book fasion. Stark wouldn't suddenly start making clones with Reeds help.

That's the problem that most are having. It's a great premise, mostly fun to read, and enjoyable. It's an event that could have been incredibe, it's just a few things that take you out of it. You say war makes ppl act differently, and I do agree it does. Thing is, like said above, why would Reed make living weapons and fight old allies over someone breaking a new law when he's stayed mentally stable against worse odds in worse situations. There's a difference inbetween Stark snapping because things seem hopeless and killing a hero in a moment of temp insanity. Then there's Stark having this bill in the back of his mind for years, cloning or planing to clone Thor and others since he first met them, hiring villains to attack and put ppl in danger to promote his cause, and paling around with the likes of King Pin. Now he's hiring villains like task master who he's fought, and venom, deathstryke, bullseye and so on which are incredibly dangerous. If he couldn't control a clone, not sure how he plans on controlling some of the world's most dangerous villains.

I mean there are times where extremes are necessary, but their taking steps they wouldn't when the entire planet was at risk in the past. Plus, law or no law, there's just a line a hero doesn't cross. The entire premise of most of these hero's is being a vigilante, very few had government contracts. By doing what they've done for years they've been basically breaking the law, and might have been imprisoned if they were ever caught. Some might even have called it an obstruction of justice, or something like reckless endangerment because of something like Spiderman stopping criminals in the middle of a crowded street. These hero's tho are able to do what the cops can't because of powers, and therefore did it with those risks because they felt it was the right thing. For some reason tho second it's officially labeled a law, suddenly half the hero's become brain dead zombies and fight for what they used to fight against, and are willing to beat long time friends heads in.

See that's my problem, I like CW and enjoy it for the most part. I don't like certain parts that get overlooked, and trampling on of continuity or character core values. I def don't like, "It's the law", as being a reason for characters to do out of character things when they've broken similar laws in the past for simply being hero's.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Personally, on this message board especially, and other comic boards throughout the Internet...most people on message boards, in my opinion, come off as "tradionalists".

It's not 1962 anymore. Most of the characters in Marvel's stable are fast approaching 50 years. And in 40 to 50 years of stories among all these characters, and trying to keep an ongoing saga on, you're going to have bad stories, good stories, mediocre stories. There ARE going to be mischaracterizations if you're going to trace EVERY SINGLE PERSONAL THREAD OF THE CHARACTERS HISTORY!

I mean, trace your own history of life. I bet in a lot of case you'll find you stepped out of character in certain moments. But it's really easy to judge fictional characters because, in a lot of cases, some people hold these characters so close to them, or mirror themselves on certain characters (Spider-Man as the large example) that it's like a personal insult for a lot of people.

And that's where I differ. Throughout the years of reading Spider-Man, and other various comic characters...Batman is another good example...I've seen pieces of myself in these characters. But I don't desperately hold onto these characters like they mirror me or they are that dear to me. I read the comics for fun. And sometimes the problem with a lot of people, especially on message boards, is that people say they want it to be fun...but they take it FAR too seriously.

Like in the 90's. I remember the Clone Saga just ABSORBING me into the world of Spider-Man like a sponge. I LOVED that Ben Reilly was the one true Spider-Man. And I was probably one of every 100,000 Spider-Man fans who felt that way, haha. But, see, I didn't take things so seriously or hold Peter Parker to my heart like he was my brother, or my father, or, christ...like a wife (which, honestly, is how I see the guy treated sometimes ).

So, yeah, as I move along from year to year with storylines in the Marvel Universe, and even the DC Universe, and people will complain and moan about everything. People were whining about Infinite Crisis. People praise Civil War. It's all opinion.

Hell, there are people who think Paris Hilton is HOT!

 

[Alex Summers]

Personally, on this message board especially, and other comic boards throughout the Internet...most people on message boards, in my opinion, come off as "tradionalists".

It's not 1962 anymore. Most of the characters in Marvel's stable are fast approaching 50 years. And in 40 to 50 years of stories among all these characters, and trying to keep an ongoing saga on, you're going to have bad stories, good stories, mediocre stories. There ARE going to be mischaracterizations if you're going to trace EVERY SINGLE PERSONAL THREAD OF THE CHARACTERS HISTORY!

I mean, trace your own history of life. I bet in a lot of case you'll find you stepped out of character in certain moments. But it's really easy to judge fictional characters because, in a lot of cases, some people hold these characters so close to them, or mirror themselves on certain characters (Spider-Man as the large example) that it's like a personal insult for a lot of people.

And that's where I differ. Throughout the years of reading Spider-Man, and other various comic characters...Batman is another good example...I've seen pieces of myself in these characters. But I don't desperately hold onto these characters like they mirror me or they are that dear to me. I read the comics for fun. And sometimes the problem with a lot of people, especially on message boards, is that people say they want it to be fun...but they take it FAR too seriously.

Like in the 90's. I remember the Clone Saga just ABSORBING me into the world of Spider-Man like a sponge. I LOVED that Ben Reilly was the one true Spider-Man. And I was probably one of every 100,000 Spider-Man fans who felt that way, haha. But, see, I didn't take things so seriously or hold Peter Parker to my heart like he was my brother, or my father, or, christ...like a wife (which, honestly, is how I see the guy treated sometimes ).

So, yeah, as I move along from year to year with storylines in the Marvel Universe, and even the DC Universe, and people will complain and moan about everything. People were whining about Infinite Crisis. People praise Civil War. It's all opinion.

Hell, there are people who think Paris Hilton is HOT!

People think Paris Hilton is hot?

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

There is 2 answers from what i hear and from what i have read.One answer is that there are those who hate what Marvel has done,and is currently doing.But still buys,why?There are so many reasons,i doubt i can speak of them all.The second reason is people buy in hopes that things will get better.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Mischaracterization and poor writing have crept in to this mega-crossover and that's truly disappointing but it's still an entertaining read with some of the best artwork in the business.

I don't think that poor writing has crept into Civil War. I own every issue and tie-in (except for Heroes for Hire #1 which I will be getting eventually) and I've been enjoying it immensely. The great writing makes up for the mischaracterization of Reed Richards (Sue's note to him was very touching) and the villainization of Tony (at least the main Civil War story have made him appear human at least)

House of M was wonderful and it shattered the status quo. It placed mutants back in the severe minority category and helped to erase the taint of the Morrison X-Men run.

1. Morrison is better than you. Morrison is better than me. Don't forget that.

2. House of M was good. It was a bit stretched out, but it did nothing to shatter the status quo. Popular mutants such as Wolverine, Cyclops, Emma Frost, Beast, Shadowcat, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Havok, Rogue, etc. weren't depowered. Depowered mutants such as Quicksilver, Iceman, Angel, Polaris, and Magneto have already gained their powers back. The only major mutant that is still depowered is Professor X, who will probally get his powers back eventually through Quicksilver or the Shi'ar. All Decimation did was return from a race of people that could form their own nation to an extreme minority that is feared and hated...AGAIN!!! Asides from Son of M and X-Factor (I won't say anything about New X-Men though, I haven't read that book), Decimation has sucked. It brought the status quo to what it was when the X-Men first started. No one major has been depowered. And it brought the quality of House of M down hard.

Disassembled was crap but it led to what was a damn good New Avengers run. I had my doubts that Wolverine and Spider-Man on an Avengers team would work but it was very well done.

New Avengers is crap. I like the idea of Spider-Man being an Avenger, but Bendis can't write a 616 Spider-Man. Sentry has done jack s**t. Ronin can't even be counted as an Avenger (Ronin should have been Daredevil). The Avengers have lost to freaking Hand ninja, this is seriously one of the weakest incarnations of the Avengers ever! Wolverine and Luke Cage should not be Avengers. And with Spider-Man on the team, do we really need Spider-Woman (yes, I know they are completely different, but two Spider-people on the team just sound repeitive), I and many others just don't share Bendis's crush on Jessica Drew.

The only good issues of New Avengers have been the Civil War tie-ins. Which ironically are astounding, which the rest of the series is far from.

Flaws and all, Civil War outclasses anything DC has done in years. I just read the new JLA #1 and there's no way I'm picking up #2.

You obviously don't read enough DC. DC is ahead in quality than Marvel is if you ask me. Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis were seriously awesome. Civil War may beat Infinite Crisis in terms of tie-ins and art, but Infinite Crisis crushes Civil War in terms of impact, story, and characterization.