I'm Reading Your Stuff: General News and Discussion Thread

[dhandler01]

Considering there's a strong chance DCU Batman winds up being some TV/Prime Video guy like Sklenar....no thanks.

What makes you say that? Superman wasnt cast that way...

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Superman's cast is the most streaming pilot it possibly could be. Even if you don't think that's a bad thing, it absolutely is that. Especially compared to how the way big CBMs like it are traditionally cast, prior Superman movies being particularly strong examples.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Superman's cast is the most streaming pilot it possibly could be. Even if you don't think that's a bad thing, it absolutely is that. Especially compared to how the way big CBMs like it are traditionally cast, prior Superman movies being particularly strong examples.

Complain about Marvel wasting talent, lord knows I agree, but they cast plenty of "movie stars" in lots of roles. It's kind of funny that their actual streaming show (Green Lantern) cast feels more big screen then Superman.

 

[Sawyer]

Okay, well I can see this all started with the suggestion that we swap around the actors for Batman and villain between The Batman and the DCU, so let me just say: No, let’s not.

That being said, I don’t really give a **** if Superman lacked A-listers. The cast was fairly solid, and he gave some great lesser-knowns an opportunity to shine in a big movie. The Marvel method would’ve seen Tom Hanks get a $10M check for three scenes to show everyone that they’re the big game in town. Instead we got a great performance from Pruitt Taylor Vince. Gunn was being thrifty, but it worked IMO.

 

[solidsnake86]

I saw Gunn did an interview with Brandon Davis about having two Batmen. Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with Gunn.

Having a second Batman run concurrently is ridiculous given the current box office landscape as it pertains to superhero movies. Also, they literally had multiple Batmen at the same time with the flash and the Batman, it's easy to see which movie came out on top. Batman as a character hasn't even been a sure box office thing as some people falsely believe. His character actually requires good movies and even then all you have to do is look at the damage batman and robin did to the Batman begins box office.

For all the crap people give Reeves for taking long with the script, I'm sure of lot of that has to do with trying to find something new to do with the character because he's already had a lot of live action interpretations.

 

[flickchick85]

Superman’s cast was as near perfect as a CBM cast gets imo. Wouldn’t change anyone*, I don’t care how famous they are/were.

*Well except for one Zionist, but not because he didn’t fit the role like a glove.

 

[dhandler01]

Superman's cast is the most streaming pilot it possibly could be. Even if you don't think that's a bad thing, it absolutely is that. Especially compared to how the way big CBMs like it are traditionally cast, prior Superman movies being particularly strong examples.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Okay, well I can see this all started with the suggestion that we swap around the actors for Batman and villain between The Batman and the DCU, so let me just say: No, let’s not.

That being said, I don’t really give a **** if Superman lacked A-listers. The cast was fairly solid, and he gave some great lesser-knowns an opportunity to shine in a big movie. The Marvel method would’ve seen Tom Hanks get a $10M check for three scenes to show everyone that they’re the big game in town. Instead we got a great performance from Pruitt Taylor Vince. Gunn was being thrifty, but it worked IMO.

It's not simply the Marvel method. Superman started this when they gave Brando and Hackman multiple bricks. Batman is always A-List. His villains are most of the time as well. TDK and The Batman are loaded. Same with MoS. One could argue Wonder Woman only works because they cast Pine. Spider-Man and X-Men at Fox also did the thing with important roles.

Not saying this is necessary. If Superman had been cast better outside of the main 3, I probably wouldn't care.

 

[Sawyer]

It's not simply the Marvel method. Superman started this when they gave Brando and Hackman multiple bricks. Batman is always A-List. His villains are most of the time as well. TDK and The Batman are loaded. Same with MoS. One could argue Wonder Woman only works because they cast Pine. Spider-Man and X-Men at Fox also did the thing with important roles.

Not saying this is necessary. If Superman had been cast better outside of the main 3, I probably wouldn't care.

Marvel didn’t get it start it off, but they have brought it to the point of almost being wasteful.

“Okay, Doctor Strange 2. We end it with Charlize Theron in the post-credits. What do you think about that?”
“I like it. So when are we going to see her next?”
“… don’t bother me with questions like that, we’re getting Charlize Theron in the MCU!”

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I didn’t agree with Gunn’s take on the two Batman situation either. Having competing versions of the same character invites unnecessary confusion and comparisons

 

[SwordOfMorning]

There’s probably a way to make it work but two simultaneous solo franchises is probably the worst way to do it. Especially because with Gunn’s release date comments you have to imagine they’ll cast DCU Batman during production or release of Part II.

Maybe the fact there’ll only be one more Reeves thing after B&B if the trilogy happens makes it an easier pill? Idk. Still feel like the move was to have DCU Batman be a stand out supporting character the audience gets hyped for with the solo being held off on.

 

[Boom]

Let me cook:

Spoiler

Hugo Strange

 

[Lily Adler]

Let me cook:

Spoiler

Hugo Strange

 

[Boom]

Goodness.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Let me cook:

Spoiler

Hugo Strange

 

[OnLeatherWings]

There’s probably a way to make it work but two simultaneous solo franchises is probably the worst way to do it.

I do not look forward to the fan wars of DCU's Batman VS Reeves' that we'll have to endure until the end of time. We know it's coming.

And yes, Batmen were always compared to one another and fans fought - but never in real time with two simultaneous ones ongoing. That's a whole different ballgame.

I can see some fans 'boycotting' one over another. Ugh.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Having a second Batman run concurrently is ridiculous given the current box office landscape as it pertains to superhero movies.

Reluctantly, I have to agree. These last few years are a volatile time for pretty much anything box office-related. Superhero films have taken huge hits, especially. With few exceptions.

I keep reading people talk about how "People aren't tired of comic book movies, they just want GOOD comic book movies!"

Well, we've seen that's not entirely true. 'Good' CBM like Thunderbolts flopped. Superman crawled past $615M. F4 did even less. Each of those got great reviews.

6 or more years ago, each of those would've hit hard at the BO.

What gets people into theater seats is very complicated these days; so many actual great non-CBM flop hard since theaters reopened. Times have changed.

Also, they literally had multiple Batmen at the same time with the flash and the Batman, it's easy to see which movie came out on top. Batman as a character hasn't even been a sure box office thing as some people falsely believe. His character actually requires good movies and even then all you have to do is look at the damage batman and robin did to the Batman begins box office.

This is one of my biggest annoyances with the Batman fandom - they believe Batman is a guaranteed box office smash.

He isn't.

The Batman did really good numbers in 2022, but he still lost taking the top CBM crown in 2022 to a Chadwick Boseman-free Black Panther 2 and Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness by a significant margin. It barely squeaked past Thor: Love and Thunder.

If that's the 'only CBM character besides Spider-Man to be a hit at the BO' character being beaten out by $150M-$200M by lesser films and barely beating a maligned Thor sequel, then Batman for sure can do badly at the box office in this day and age.

I feel like WB/Gunn/Reeves painted themselves in a corner, big time. They either had to force Reeves into the DCU and tick off those fans, or split their audience between two Batmen and confusing the casuals in the process. Either way, the audience will be fragmented.

And I'm not going to say that the long wait has softened investment in this Batman, but I wouldn't rule out a large chunk of casuals tuning out because of the wait coupled with CBM-fatigue. Add to it another Batman tied to the DCU, and it gets even more messy.

Batman is not a guaranteed box-office hit. The DCU Batman could do 'okay' at best. It could be a smash. Same for this next Reeves film.

But I don't think either of the film's success is as sure-fire thing as fans want to will it to be.

 

[BobJM]

If Hush is the villain, you could really play up the cracked mirror comparison between Tommy & Bruce.

Then drive that further with the introduction of Dick Grayson to personify their conflict—will the young orphan seek revenge (like Hush), or justice (like Batman)? Give Reeves his own ferry scene but with Robin

 

[OnLeatherWings]

If Hush is the villain, you could really play up the cracked mirror comparison between Tommy & Bruce.

I really hope not; I know so many people have said it - but I agree it'd be way too much of a repeat of Riddler in the first film.

And if it wouldn't be - why use Hush in the first place?

 

[dhandler01]

It isn't comic book movie fatigue which is causing box office to be lower than previous periods...it is the money crunch and the desire of a lot of people not to watch films in theaters. Plenty of films get good reviews and audiences enjoy them but still underperform.

And honestly the reason the Marvel films no longer are guaranteed gold is because a lot of the audience is either bored by them or they are just waiting for the next Avengers flick. Endgame was a jumping off point and now moviegoers are in pick and choose mode.

As for boycotts...dont make me laugh. They almost never work or even materialize. If they did Superman wouldnt already have a sequel or The Batman. There was going to be boycotts of both by a certain segment.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

It isn't comic book movie fatigue which is causing box office to be lower than previous periods...it is the money crunch and the desire of a lot of people not to watch films in theaters. Plenty of films get good reviews and audiences enjoy them but still underperform.

Audiences are absolutely more choosy than ever with their money at the BO - but they're still choosing to throw their cash at stuff like Jurassic World and Minecraft. to push those into $1B territory, not Batman, Superman or Fantastic 4 despite far better reviews.

They're literally saying with their wallets "Yes, I know this CB film is a better film, but I would rather see a worse film featuring dinosaurs duking it out instead."

If that isn't some form of genre-fatigue, I don't know what is. It was inevitable. We'll still have our big hits here and there, but.

Nothing stays on top forever.

And honestly the reason the Marvel films no longer are guaranteed gold is because a lot of the audience is either bored by them

Yes, we call that fatigue.

 

[Gandhi]

 

[Mindreaper21]

The anti-Hush people are seriously underestimating Matt. People are harshly judging Hush based on what’s in the comics instead of focusing on what’s established so far in the film.

I do like the concept of Riddler being the broken mirror to Batman and Hush being the broken mirror to Bruce. At least in the way I’m imagining it.

 

[C Prometheus]

View attachment 149526

That sure sounds like the Court of Owls to me.

I wouldn't be shocked if Hush shows up in it as an amalgamation with the Lincoln March character, but this description in addition to Matt's comments about Part 2 both recently and from last year during the Penguin press tour all point heavily towards this being a Court of Owls story IMO.

 

[BobJM]

That sure sounds like the Court of Owls to me.

I wouldn't be shocked if Hush shows up in it as an amalgamation with the Lincoln March character, but this description in addition to Matt's comments about Part 2 both recently and from last year during the Penguin press tour all point heavily towards this being a Court of Owls story IMO.

See, I thought Arkham Asylum / Hugo Strange when I saw “scarier” in that post ... we’ve never seen Batman locked up beside the criminals he’s put there. Plus, it gives the Joker a moment to shine.

Though you could replace the Court’s Labrinyth with Arkham and get a similar effect.