All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation

[Superchan]

I didn't know she pulled that on someone else either. Amazing

I know right LOL! Misslane38 is gold as far as I'm concerned, probably my favorite poster period.

 

[titansupes]

Off-topic: Say what y'all want about that show, but Erica Durance as Lois, particularly in those later seasons .

Or when she suggested that I have a problem with women because I don't like Amy Adam's Lois Lane.

Spoiler

I recall somebody (wasn't misslane) trying to tell people that EisenLex was the only way someone who suffered from abuse would act, and that the only reason people didn't like it was because it hit too close to home for us.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

The only way to make this even more ridiculous is to throw random pop songs into the discussion. Since I don't care about Lady Gaga (because I'm old, I guess), I'll go with Lorde (to be honest, I don't even know who that is other than probably NOT the Finnish band Lordi) who totally proves that Batfleck suffers from PTSD, because as he/she/they wrote in the song Yellow Flicker Beat, which apparantly is a soundtrack to a movie series aimed at 12 year old girls and - as I was told - is a song about PTSD:

My blood is a flood of rubies, precious stones

This very clearly refers to Batman, after all Alfred told Bruce this story about precious stones in The Dark Knight, which of course is not a DCEU movie, but who cares at this point of the discussion.

And our people talk to me, but nothing ever hits
So people talk to me, and all the voices just burn holes

This lines again refer to Batman. Nothing ever hits hear clearly means that noone ever punched Batfleck in the face before, because his Batgod persona is uber-powerful. The voices, that burn holes are a metaphor for Batflecks first confrontation with Supes in BvSoJ. The first time that Superman spoke in the movie (at least as I recall the boredom) and a confrontation wher he prominently used his heat ray to destroy the Batmobile.

They used to shout my name, now they whisper it

Clearly more proof. Criminals used to shout Batmans name before he met them. Now that they are dead or dying, they don't have the strength to shout (or are, again, dead), so a whisper is the best they could do (or, you know not, since they were killed)

I dream all year, but they're not the same kinds

Because Batfleck has stupid-@ss visions about Mad Max: Fury Road with aliens throughout the movie.

So, with all the evidence at hand, yeah, despite everything presented in BvS, the song makes it awfully clear that Batfleck is suffering from PTSD instead of just being the most idiotic moron in cinematic history

 

[shauner111]

I feel like i should add something (unless it's been done already in the last few days)..

This whole defense about Batman having PTSD from Jason Todd's death..

None of that counts for your argument. It is not implied, mentioned straight up, nothing, that A) Robin's suit in the batcave is Dick Grayson's, Jason Todd's, Tim Drake's, Damien Wayne's, Billy Bob Thornton's, or Edward Scissorhands....or B) that Robin even died.

It's irrelevant if we learn in Justice League or The Batman that Robin died and he was specifically Jason Todd. It's NOT IN THE FILM. For right now, and judging the film as is, it's a friggin Robin suit or a suit in general and it could mean a number of things. It could mean he's dead, he left the city, he designs smaller red suits and sprays HA HA HA on them just because it makes him feel closer to his boo (The Joker).

I don't care if you're a psychologist or a random poster on this forum who works at a coffee shop, using THAT in an argument is just as dumb as the writing in BvS. All we have in the film is that Batman has been losing his s**t ever since Superman saved some people. Errr...i mean, made a vow to destroy every living creature.

Like HEY MAN, he's suffering from PTSD DON'T YOU KNOW!? His little buddy boy wonder lost his life by slipping on a bar of soap, and now Bruce is full of regret because he had to pick up the kid off the floor and deal with the mess. Which sounds like something Batfleck would do actually (blame the Joker when Robin slipped on a bar of soap). He's really that stupid, so i wouldn't put it past him. Can you imagine if the soap was "Ivory", and Bruce had a Martha sized meltdown the next time he took the bar of soap out of the plastic. WHY DID YOU USE THAT NAME!!? *calls the company*

Okay i'll stop. I'm not trolling though. Yes we can make jokes without trolling. I just really think the writing was so poor with those scenes and Bruce's motivations that it's on the level of that nonsense. And i feel like a lot of the defenses here on the last few pages are irrelevant because they're not in this movie or the previous.

 

[shauner111]

The only way to make this even more ridiculous is to throw random pop songs into the discussion. Since I don't care about Lady Gaga (because I'm old, I guess), I'll go with Lorde (to be honest, I don't even know who that is other than probably NOT the Finnish band Lordi) who totally proves that Batfleck suffers from PTSD, because as he/she/they wrote in the song Yellow Flicker Beat, which apparantly is a soundtrack to a movie series aimed at 12 year old girls and - as I was told - is a song about PTSD:

My blood is a flood of rubies, precious stones

This very clearly refers to Batman, after all Alfred told Bruce this story about precious stones in The Dark Knight, which of course is not a DCEU movie, but who cares at this point of the discussion.

And our people talk to me, but nothing ever hits
So people talk to me, and all the voices just burn holes

This lines again refer to Batman. Nothing ever hits hear clearly means that noone ever punched Batfleck in the face before, because his Batgod persona is uber-powerful. The voices, that burn holes are a metaphor for Batflecks first confrontation with Supes in BvSoJ. The first time that Superman spoke in the movie (at least as I recall the boredom) and a confrontation wher he prominently used his heat ray to destroy the Batmobile.

They used to shout my name, now they whisper it

Clearly more proof. Criminals used to shout Batmans name before he met them. Now that they are dead or dying, they don't have the strength to shout (or are, again, dead), so a whisper is the best they could do (or, you know not, since they were killed)

I dream all year, but they're not the same kinds

Because Batfleck has stupid-@ss visions about Mad Max: Fury Road with aliens throughout the movie.

So, with all the evidence at hand, yeah, despite everything presented in BvS, the song makes it awfully clear that Batfleck is suffering from PTSD instead of just being the most idiotic moron in cinematic history

Didn't you know, if you don't like Lady Gaga, it's only because you're not young enough to understand!

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Didn't you know, if you don't like Lady Gaga, it's only because you're not young enough to understand!

I pray to Batgod that I'll never get that young

 

[Superchan]

Off-topic: Say what y'all want about that show, but Erica Durance as Lois, particularly in those later seasons .

Hell yeah! She was the hottest thing on TV at the time and by far the hottest Lois ever!!

 

[misslane38]

They don't need to do so because precisely because this entire conversation is so stupid. Multiple people have expressed the view that Batman was poorly characterized and handled in the movie, and the counter argument is something about mental health.

The argument is that Batman was poorly characterized because he was stupid. My argument is that Batman was not stupid; he was suffering from PTSD. I have not argued that anyone must like Batman suffering from PTSD. I have not argued that his arc was perfectly executed. I have only argued that if you are going to criticize Batman's characterization in the film, please be upfront and clear about your reasoning. Be honest that you do not and will not accept Batman if he is characterized as suffering from PTSD.

It's like the Martha thing again and how every single argument against people mocking it was some sort of beat by beat analysis of how it made total sense. A clinical analysis for why something makes sense doesn't really matter when people still find the choice itself to be stupid, not the reasoning behind its existence. It's fairly simple.

Actually, reasoning does matter. If I can provide reasoning that backs up my point of view, but your only response is that you disagree because it's stupid, then analysis does matter. I am willing to listen and even agree with a thoughtful explanation for why the "Save Martha" scene doesn't work for you, but just saying the choice is stupid doesn't cut it.

Or when she suggested that I have a problem with women because I don't like Amy Adam's Lois Lane.

You are fond of revisionist history, I see. I run a Lois and Clark blog on Tumblr, and there are few followers who don't like Adams as Lois. I don't mind if someone doesn't like Adams as Lois. What I take issue with is one's reasoning for not liking her. If your reasons for not liking her are rooted in sexism, then your dislike of her character doesn't suggest you have a problem with ALL women, but that your reasoning and preference in this one particular case is sexist.

Batman exhibited an almost superhuman level planning when he put the kryptonite spear near the exact spot where superman fell, which indicated that he knew in detail how the fight would go. Batman also waited 2 years before he went up against superman because he knew damn well that going up against superman without a weapon like kryptonite would be suicide.
These points shows that batman hasn't taken leave of all his senses yet his lack of initiative to dig further into superman's life (something that lois did in MOS where she found out his name was clark and that he lived in smallville) is a very clear indicative of him being a moron for the sake of the plot.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Individuals suffering from PTSD do not suffer from global or complete cognitive impairment. Batman uses his intelligence effectively in pursuit of his goal to save the world from Superman by killing because that's the goal his faulty thinking has directed him towards. He doesn't consider researching Superman's life because he's not interested in Superman's life. He's interested in the threat that he poses, and he's already concluded that it doesn't matter if Superman is a good man now, it's the danger he represents in the future that has sealed his fate.

Lex Luthor investigates Superman's identity because his goal is to prove that Superman is not a god, so any evidence of Superman's humanity favors Lex's endgame. Lois investigates Superman's identity because she wants to tell his story but needs to confer with him on the story before she can feel comfortable about the ethics of publishing it. Bruce Wayne does not have similar motivations for digging into Superman's life. Bruce's PTSD has already put him in a fight or flight mindset, so his interest is more directed in tracking down and acquiring the means with which to confront Superman: the kryptonite.

Honestly most 'discussions' with misslane38 end up this way i.e. the so ridicules it's irresistibly fun sort of way, so my suggestion for you is to just sit back and enjoy the show and grab a bag of popcorn if you've got some.

You realize how terrible this makes you sound, right?

She did that with you too?! I thought it was just me, damn I don't feel so special anymore.

I did it to neither of you. What I did was point out the sexism in your reasoning. I did not call you sexists simply because you do not Lois Lane or a version of Lois Lane. You are creating a strawman argument here, and it does you no favors.

I didn't know she pulled that on someone else either. Amazing

I didn't. I didn't do it to you or anyone else. I critiqued your reasoning as sexist. I did not critique your preference as sexist. If you don't like Adams as Lois for sexist reasons, then that is sexist. If you don't like Lois Lane for sexist reasons, then that is sexist. If you simply do not like Adams as Lois or Lois, in general, that's perfectly fine with me. For example, I don't like Stephen Amell's Oliver Queen because he's a hypocritical character portrayed by an actor with limited range.

I know right LOL! Misslane38 is gold as far as I'm concerned, probably my favorite poster period.

I love you, too.

The only way to make this even more ridiculous is to throw random pop songs into the discussion. Since I don't care about Lady Gaga (because I'm old, I guess), I'll go with Lorde (to be honest, I don't even know who that is other than probably NOT the Finnish band Lordi) who totally proves that Batfleck suffers from PTSD, because as he/she/they wrote in the song Yellow Flicker Beat, which apparantly is a soundtrack to a movie series aimed at 12 year old girls and - as I was told - is a song about PTSD

That is not how I used the Lady Gaga song. Not even close. I did not so much as use it to prove something as use it to restate and elaborate on something I had already said. The song was "Til It Happens to You," and it was an Academy Award nominated single from the acclaimed campus sexual assault documentary, The Hunting Ground. The song is about how disrespectful and insensitive it is to judge or demean someone for responding to a trauma in a way you don't like or understand when you have never stepped into a victim's shoes. It's about how platitudes like "You're stronger than you know" and "It gets better" aren't helpful or empathetic toward people who have experienced real trauma.

Lady Gaga isn't just a singer and the song wasn't just any song. Lady Gaga was a victim of sexual assault, and when she performed the song for the Academy Awards, she was surrounded by young women who had been assaulted. I did not include the song as evidence or a coup de grace. I did not use the song to persuade beyond providing an example of real people's opinions about how not to treat people who have been victimized or people who are suffering with mental health issues. I used the song because the conversation reminded me of it, and it was presented for those reading its lyrics to enjoy or reject however they saw fit. It was meant to provide insight to those who maybe needed another way of looking at something that I'd already described another way. It's instructive and illuminating, though, how triggered you all were by the song. I mean, for me, it was a trifling thing (though I do like it), but it seems to have been seared upon the memories of many here in a way that I can't help but find both odd and funny.

This whole defense about Batman having PTSD from Jason Todd's death..

Not a single one of my argument has cited Robin's death alone as a the sole trigger of Batman's PTSD. In fact, I clearly cited the Black Zero event as the biggest contributor to Bruce's mental illness.

Didn't you know, if you don't like Lady Gaga, it's only because you're not young enough to understand!

Huh? I never asked anyone to like Lady Gaga. I'm not really a fan of Lady Gaga! I heard the song on the Oscars last year, and I heard it again when I watched The Hunting Ground documentary. I never said anything to anyone about misunderstanding the song. The song was never presented as anything other than a song.

Bottom line response to all of the above:

If you have to resort to rehashing previous unrelated conversations with all context removed and to ad hominem and strawman arguments at this point, then you know you have lost the argument, right?

 

[misslane38]

The people calling the debate ridiculous are only doing so because the person doing the pwning is refuting their stance. If someone were arguing against Batman having PTSD and supporting their arguments with cited sources they'd be getting heaps of applause.

Call a spade a spade and stop being salty.

Yep.

Thanks, guys.

No matter how much teasing people resort to, I stand by what I've said here and elsewhere. Having your support means a lot.

 

[Flint Marko]

You are fond of revisionist history, I see. I run a Lois and Clark blog on Tumblr, and there are few followers who don't like Adams as Lois. I don't mind if someone doesn't like Adams as Lois. What I take issue with is one's reasoning for not liking her. If your reasons for not liking her are rooted in sexism, then your dislike of her character doesn't suggest you have a problem with ALL women, but that your reasoning and preference in this one particular case is sexist.

I did it to neither of you. What I did was point out the sexism in your reasoning. I did not call you sexists simply because you do not Lois Lane or a version of Lois Lane. You are creating a strawman argument here, and it does you no favors.

I didn't. I didn't do it to you or anyone else. I critiqued your reasoning as sexist. I did not critique your preference as sexist. If you don't like Adams as Lois for sexist reasons, then that is sexist. If you don't like Lois Lane for sexist reasons, then that is sexist. If you simply do not like Adams as Lois or Lois, in general, that's perfectly fine with me. For example, I don't like Stephen Amell's Oliver Queen because he's a hypocritical character portrayed by an actor with limited range.

Here's the exact quote that you deemed sexist:

I've hinted at this before but my distaste of the DCEU stems entirely from the lackluster treatment of Superman and, somehow, making me dislike one of the most likable and charming actress' working today. I knew I disliked her character from the moment she had that line about "measuring ****s" in Man of Steel, and it only got worse from there.

You'll note that I was specifically criticizing her dialogue. There's absolutely nothing about that worthy of labelling "sexist", but that didn't stop you from crossing that line.

If you have to resort to ad hominem and strawman arguments at this point, then you know you have lost the argument, right?

Yes, tell us more about ad hominem and strawmen arguments.

 

[misslane38]

Here's the exact quote that you deemed sexist:

You'll note that I was specifically criticizing her dialogue. There's absolutely nothing about that worthy of labelling "sexist", but that didn't stop you from crossing that line.

Yes, tell us more about ad hominem and strawmen arguments.

But what is behind your not liking the "measuring *****" line? What is inherently wrong with it? I can't recall exactly what we discussed, and I can't see evidence of my responses in the thread you linked to, but I believe it had something to do with the reasons you gave for why that line bothered you. What are your reasons again? It's still odd, though, that a line a fictional character says would make you dislike a real actress who does other roles beyond Lois.

 

[MbJ]

Be honest that you do not and will not accept Batman if he is characterized as suffering from PTSD.

I could accept it if I thought it was handled well and in a way that isn't stupid. I don't believe that was done here.

Actually, reasoning does matter. If I can provide reasoning that backs up my point of view, but your only response is that you disagree because it's stupid, then analysis does matter. I am willing to listen and even agree with a thoughtful explanation for why the "Save Martha" scene doesn't work for you, but just saying the choice is stupid doesn't cut it.

It does cut it because I'm not having this discussion. It was a hypothetical point to illustrate what I was talking about. The poster I was responding to was claiming the people who don't like the movie were being "pwned" and I disagreed with that assessment. I've yet to see anyone actually explain how someone's opinion that Batman was badly handled is "wrong".

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Someone needs to retake reading comprehension.

Standardized testing is the death of 'Murica I tell ya.

 

[Flint Marko]

But what is behind your not liking the "measuring *****" line? What is inherently wrong with it? I can't recall exactly what we discussed, and I can't see evidence of my responses in the thread you linked to, but I believe it had something to do with the reasons you gave for why that line bothered you.What are your reasons again?

I didn't give any reasons or say any more about my feelings on the matter beyond that one post. Your first response was to question whether or not I had a problem with certain women. That's a pretty solid example of resorting to ad hominem. Feel free to peruse that thread to verify, it's all there.

It's still odd, though, that a line a fictional character says would make you dislike a real actress who does other roles beyond Lois.

Just to clarify, I was speaking about her specifically in the DCEU. I dislike Amy Adam's character and her performance.

 

[MbJ]

Someone needs to retake reading comprehension.

Nah, I read it just fine. You said everyone is only making fun of the debate because their side was being pwned by misslane because she was citing sources about PTSD. I disagreed with both the idea that she was somehow demolishing the opposition or that people only thought the conversation was stupid because they were somehow "losing" it.

 

[misslane38]

I could accept it if I thought it was handled well and in a way that isn't stupid. I don't believe that was done here.

It does cut it because I'm not having this discussion. It was a hypothetical point to illustrate what I was talking about. The poster I was responding to was claiming the people who don't like the movie were being "pwned" and I disagreed with that assessment. I've yet to see anyone actually explain how someone's opinion that Batman was badly handled is "wrong".

Fine, but by not supporting your point of view I can neither see your perspective more clearly nor can your reasoning be vetted. Without that vetting, people like myself can't be expected to trust or buy into what you say. That isn't to say that you are wrong, but to say that I don't know if you are right.

 

[Superchan]

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Individuals suffering from PTSD do not suffer from global or complete cognitive impairment.

Actually I suffered from PTSD when I was 9 growing up in Baghdad and as a doctor I do come across it on occasion (not often) so I know enough, but I'm by no means an expert. One thing I know for sure is that one size doesn't fit all and different people can and often exhibit different symptoms of PTSD depending on their personality and experiences.

Batman uses his intelligence effectively in pursuit of his goal to save the world from Superman by killing because that's the goal his faulty thinking has directed him towards. He doesn't consider researching Superman's life because he's not interested in Superman's life. He's interested in the threat that he poses, and he's already concluded that it doesn't matter if Superman is a good man now, it's the danger he represents in the future that has sealed his fate

Yeah in order to achieve his goal of killing a god like-being who is way above his weight class batman would need to know everything about him, not because he's interested in his life but rather because he's interested in the aspects of his life that would make him vulnerable.

Lex Luthor investigates Superman's identity because his goal is to prove that Superman is not a god, so any evidence of Superman's humanity favors Lex's endgame.

No that's not the main reason, Luthor did what batman should've done and investigated superman inorder to know how to beat him. Also I got the impression that he hated superman BECAUSE he viewed him as the embodiment of god, the very same concept that didn't save him from his daddy's fists.

Bruce's PTSD has already put him in a fight or flight mindset, so his interest is more directed in tracking down and acquiring the means with which to confront Superman: the kryptonite.

And by investigating superman he'd likely have a better understanding of how to confront superman and that having PTSD doesn't negate that fact.

You realize how terrible this makes you sound, right?

If you think so then put me on ignore and move on, no one is forcing you to respond.

 

[MbJ]

Again, I'm not interested in debating you or having my reasoning "vetted". I feel like you and I have had this same exchange several times already, and I wasn't even responding to you. I was responding to someone making the claim that anyone who thinks this argument is silly must be doing so because they're bitter that they're losing in it.

 

[misslane38]

I didn't give any reasons or say any more about my feelings on the matter beyond that one post. Your first response was to question whether or not I had a problem with certain women. That's a pretty solid example of resorting to ad hominem. Feel free to peruse that thread to verify, it's all there.

No, it's not. There's no response from me to you there at all. There's nothing to verify. It is possible off-topic posts were deleted, but if that's the case, then I can't verify what you said and what I allegedly said is accurate. Sorry. I will say, however, that if I posed the "certain women" as a question (it sounds like I did if I said anything at all to you), so any accusations of sexism would have been linked to your response to that question. Otherwise, it is just a question aimed at trying to understand your reasoning since none was provided.

Just to clarify, I was speaking about her specifically in the DCEU. I dislike Amy Adam's character and her performance.

Then why did you say that her one line about "measuring *****" made you dislike a likable actress?

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Nah, I read it just fine. You said everyone is only making fun of the debate because their side was being pwned by misslane because she was citing sources about PTSD. I disagreed with both the idea that she was somehow demolishing the opposition or that people only thought the conversation was stupid because they were somehow "losing" it.

No, you are reading it wrong. The entire debate was specifically about whether or not Batman had symptoms that are congruous with and display Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. You broadened the inent of my comment. I never mentioned the subjective quality of Batman v Superman. And no one managed to prove that Batman didn't have PTSD.

So, yeah, you need to retake reading comprehension.

 

[MbJ]

No, you are reading it wrong.

Nah, I'm good, fam.

So, yeah, you need to retake reading comprehension.

Sounds like the sort of comment someone frustrated about their argument would make!

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Nah, I'm just laughing at ya. Like I said, dem standardized tests are no joke!!

 

[misslane38]

Again, I'm not interested in debating you or having my reasoning "vetted". I feel like you and I have had this same exchange several times already, and I wasn't even responding to you. I was responding to someone making the claim that anyone who thinks this argument is silly must be doing so because they're bitter that they're losing in it.

That's fine. We can leave things as they are.

 

[MbJ]

Nah, I'm just laughing at ya.

It's good to see people maintaining a sense of humor in these trying days of having to watch Batman v. Superman. I admire your emotional fortitude. Keep fighting, trooper. Keep fighting.

 

[Superchan]

No, you are reading it wrong. The entire debate was specifically about whether or not Batman had symptoms that are congruous with and display Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. You broadened the inent of my comment. I never mentioned the subjective quality of Batman v Superman. And no one managed to prove that Batman didn't have PTSD.

So, yeah, you need to retake reading comprehension.

No that's not what the ENTIRE discussion is about, it might be for some posters but others like myself are arguing that Batman was written as a moron to conveniently further the plot forward regardless of whether he had mental issues or not, so maybe you should start practicing what you preach and avoid skipping the entire reading part of the reading-comprehension.