I'm Reading Your Stuff: General News and Discussion Thread

[DarthSkywalker]

At the end of the day, there was literally no scenario where The Batman spent time talking about Tommy Elliot. None. No matter what Reeves plans were. That would have been a far bigger problem than the concept being introduced in 2 feeling like a bit of a retcon.

Yo, Big Al. Let me talk to you about my childhood BFF, Tommy E. We was so close and I can't believe my papa did his papa like that. Oh, don't worry, Big Al. This won't be relevant until our sequel. Now where's Oz Cobb, I need to scar him mentality a bit more.

 

[BigBatTheory]

Fun writing exercises? We're folks on a message board trying to speed the days along because Part 2 is still two years away.

There is no way Reeves had Part 2 planned out in any real meaningful way when Part 1 came out. If he did, it wouldn't of taken as long as it did to write Part 2. And I know there were issues beyond his control and I'm certainly not complaining. But the truth is closer to George Lucas then Ozymandias. And that's fine. Each movie is it's own thing. That's how it should be.

What's wrong with me calling speculation a fun writing exercise

And yes I'm agreeing he likely didn't have a master plan, which is why to properly theorize what he would do with Hush, we have to imagine how he would reconcile what he set up for Hush in the first film.

At the end of the day, there was literally no scenario where The Batman spent time talking about Tommy Elliot. None. No matter what Reeves plans were. That would have been a far bigger problem than the concept being introduced in 2 feeling like a bit of a retcon.

Them name dropping Thomas Elliot would have been weird af, just like it is weird af he established Hush's backstory and motivation while flashing "Hush" on the screen. Matt doesn't seem like somebody who would retcon what he has previously established, he has talked about "seeing where the story takes us", or something along those lines at least a couple times before.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I agree with you 100%. Did you read my pdf?

Riddler was absolutely trying to get vengeance, it's a huge part of the plot. He's trying to get revenge on the city and the people he blames for it hurting him, and he includes Bruce Wayne as a primary target in that, for what his father did, and for the life Bruce Wayne got to have that he himself did not. That motivation is incredibly similar to Thomas Elliot, who would be targeting Bruce Wayne for the "sins of his father". Like I'm not saying comic Riddler and comic Hush are at all similar, but in this adaption there would clearly be some big overlaps. I'm of the opinion they should somewhat lean into this and do it with intent, this Hush would have to be a character inspired by Riddler's actions and what he reveals in a way, don't shy away from it. Give his Hush mask the "No More Lies" writing lol

I may have come across it once before

Yes, Riddler set out for revenge. That’s the point I made earlier. Though, he wasn’t out to avenge anyone. That’s a major difference. Also, he referred to Bruce as a piece of the puzzle, but his death wasn’t all that important to him. With Hush, hurting Bruce is everything to him. I do agree that Hush will take some inspiration from Riddler. I don’t believe Hush will wear “no more lies” on his mask because he wouldn’t be trying to send the same message as Riddler.

Another thing is that Bruce is a target in nearly every film. It’s about motive and execution.

And you know this how?

What would it add to the story? Bruce was a recluse and there’s already a motive for revenge. Tommy can just create a false trauma bond to get next to Bruce. That way you see it build in real time.

Btw: Riddler isn’t an incel. Nothing about his character has anything to do with his sexuality or sexuality in general.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What's wrong with me calling speculation a fun writing exercise

And yes I'm agreeing he likely didn't have a master plan, which is why to properly theorize what he would do with Hush, we have to imagine how he would reconcile what he set up for Hush in the first film.

The answer to the first paragraph is the bold.

 

[BigBatTheory]

The answer to the first paragraph is the bold.

What are you implying?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What would it add to the story? Bruce was a recluse and there’s already a motive for revenge. Tommy can just create a false trauma bond to get next to Bruce. That way you see it build in real time.

I will ask again. You know this how?

Btw: Riddler isn’t an incel. Nothing about his character has anything to do with his sexuality or sexuality in general.

The Riddler is a mishmash of white supremacist, Incel, and other far right behavior. It's why he has his online followers. Incels aren't defined simply by their lack of getting laid. It's by the toxic community they create and how they lash out at the world for it.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Since when have these characters origins ever been 100 percent comic book accurate? This version of Hush doesn’t have to be childhood friends with Bruce, because it’s not all that important to this particular story. He has an entirely different origin like all of the other characters.

I mean. It very easily could be the entire point of this particular story. I’m not saying it is, but there’s at bare minimum a 50/50 shot Hush is the big bad and that’s one of the core tenets of Hush.

 

[darkdefective]

Are you guys under the impression Bruce having childhood friends is an impossibility?

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Are you guys under the impression Bruce having childhood friends is an impossibility?

Yeah I’ve gotten that impression sometimes and it confuses me. I’m sure Bruce was a totally normal kid before The Incident?? That’s kind of the point??

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What are you implying?

There is no Venom in Spidey's eye, Mephisto was not in WandaVision, and there is no such thing as "proper theorizing". Let's not take this too seriously.

 

[Johnny Frost]

I'd be surprised if Tommy is a childhood friend here, I think it would sound too convenient if the son of the reporter killed in the first film also happens to be a childhood friend of Bruce's.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I will ask again. You know this how?

The Riddler is a mishmash of white supremacist, Incel, and other far right behavior. It's why he has his online followers. Incels aren't defined simply by their lack of getting laid. It's by the toxic community they create and how they lash out at the world for it.

To answer your question: prove otherwise.

In bold: You know this how?

Riddler literally created a website to attract those types of people because he knew that they would be willing to do as he wanted. Making them believe he was one of them in order to send them into his arena death trap to ensure that Bella Reàl would die and fulfill his “Real Change”. He’s psychotic. It’s in Riddler year one.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

When it comes to speculating about Part II. I look at what was established in the first film as important and what clearly was left with room to explore. The Waynes felt that way. And that lines up perfectly with Bruce stepping out of the shadows to assume his father's mantle in society. Something heavily hinted at in the first movie and lines up with Batman being missing during the Penguin.

This is why while I don't love them, I totally expect the Court and potentially Hush.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

To answer your question: prove otherwise.

In bold: You know this how?

Riddler literally created a website to attract those types of people because he knew that they would be willing to do as he wanted. Making them believe he was one of them in order to send them into his arena death trap to ensure that Bella Reàl would die and fulfill his “Real Change”. He’s psychotic. It’s in Riddler year one.

No, he’s absolutely one of them. There’s absolutely no indication in the movie proper it was any sort of act of cynical manipulation. That’s basically what the entire movie is about.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'd be surprised if Tommy is a childhood friend here, I think it would sound too convenient if the son of the reporter killed in the first film also happens to be a childhood friend of Bruce's.

Superhero plots are built on convivences.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

To answer your question: prove otherwise.

What?

In bold: You know this how?

Riddler literally created a website to attract those types of people because he knew that they would be willing to do as he wanted. Making them believe he was one of them in order to send them into his arena death trap to ensure that Bella Reàl would die and fulfill his “Real Change”. He’s psychotic. It’s in Riddler year one.

The allusions aren't subtle. Like at all. To the point that he has an online community. Do you think far right folks aren't psychotic?

 

[Johnny Frost]

Superhero plots are built on convivences.

Yeah, that's okay, but I'll still be surprised if Reeves goes in that direction.

He's already drastically changed Elliot's origin, him dropping the childhood friends thing sounds totally plausible and likely to me.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Yeah, that's okay, but I'll still be surprised if Reeves goes in that direction.

He's already drastically changed Elliot's origin, him dropping the childhood friends thing sounds totally plausible and likely to me.

I don’t think anyone is saying he for sure will do that backstory, I at least am just arguing it’s clearly enormously possible he will.

 

[Johnny Frost]

I don’t think anyone is saying he for sure will do that backstory, I at least am just arguing it’s clearly enormously possible he will.

I agree, at the moment anything is possible. It's possible that Hush isn't even in this movie which would be really funny to me.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I agree, at the moment anything is possible. It's possible that Hush isn't even in this movie which would be really funny to me.

I have been so utterly confident Hush is the villain since day one that I’m gonna look real ****ing stupid if he isn’t.

 

[BigBatTheory]

What if Hugo Strange was a psychologist who did some study on children who lost their parent's to violence and that's how the two met? It would be reasonable they didn't know each other's last names meeting in that context. Alfred gets Bruce out of the study after he gets bad vibes, or notices his violent tendencies getting worse, but Elliot stays in the program.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, that's okay, but I'll still be surprised if Reeves goes in that direction.

He's already drastically changed Elliot's origin, him dropping the childhood friends thing sounds totally plausible and likely to me.

I don't know what he'll do. My point is ruling stuff out on the basis of headcanon about how the filmmaker works is a bad idea.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

What if Hugo Strange was a psychologist who did some study on children who lost their parent's to violence and that's how the two met? It would be reasonable they didn't know each other's last names meeting in that context. Alfred gets Bruce out of the study after he gets bad vibes, or notices his violent tendencies getting worse, but Elliot stays in the program.

That’s a cool idea but if anything that feels more contrived and soap opera to me. Which the Hush story fundamentally is, to be fair, there’s not a lot of getting around that if you’re actually doing Normal Hush.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have been so utterly confident Hush is the villain since day one that I’m gonna look real ****ing stupid if he isn’t.

I hope you have egg on your face as we all feel a chill down our spines.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That’s a cool idea but if anything that feels more contrived and soap opera to me. Which the Hush story fundamentally is, to be fair, there’s not a lot of getting around that if you’re actually doing Normal Hush.

Reeves is one who can take very soap opera ideas and make then work in a different way. He's a lot like Mike Flanagan that way.