The Dark Knight Rises Improving Fight Scenes

[Mr. Earle]

Exactly and I prefer Thai Boxing not beatiful low kicks, knees and elbows than fancy moves.



In Forever he even does a Flyng armbar and the same armlock he did in Begins when he goes to save Rachel, then he finish the last guy in a very stupid way, if that"s better for you go ahead.

Nolan could do a lot of more things but he want to keep simple because that what happens in reality.

I just googled "flying armbar" to see what it is. IIRC he did a move that resembled the flying armbar when a thug was holding him from behind and another was coming at him from the front (party fight scene). The last thug i cant remember... I think it was one that was showing off and Batman just kicked him.

In any case i didnt say that Forever had the perfect fight scenes, just that the opening one especially (in the bank) was pretty good. Batman had a bigger variety of moves in that one scene that nolan's had in two movies.

Anyway, i think Nolan is taking the realism way too far. He made a batsuit and tried to work with it. Schumacher used countless batsuits to help the stuntmen film the fight scenes. Did you ever see the batsuit crease? Did you ever feel Batman was heavy in that suit? Never.
I can only assume they made suits that accommodated kicks (maybe the pants had openings), others for punches, and others that looked how the batsuit should really look for the talking scenes.

IMHO, Nolan's batman fights in a very heavy, slow and fake way. The opening garage fight scene and the hong kong one were atrocious. The one in Maroni's club was the best. In the party fight scene, he had some nice moves (and we want some elite fight moves. Batman should be in a class of his own, not fighting like the thugs) but the execution wasnt so good. I especially hated how he fought too much in Keysi in that scene. Moving around with his elbows up and crap... Keysi is effective in very confined spaces. When you re fighting three thugs and the joker, you cant expect the others to come 20cm from your face and crash onto your elbows... Jesus Christ! Not to mention that punches and kicks look infinitely better than elbow hits. I wish he kicked and punched more...

Oh... and one more thing... Those punch sounds they use... My god they are so fake....

 

[Mr. Earle]

On the other hand, let me congratulate Nolan on that swat-rope fight. Ultimate "**** yeah Batman" scene. Batman used his brawn and wits and beat a team of swats aiming at him with automatic weapons. Couldnt be more Batman than that!

Something similar was the bat-backup he did in Arkham in BB. Although Miller was the one who thought of that in Year One.

 

[Piuchén]

I just googled "flying armbar" to see what it is. IIRC he did a move that resembled the flying armbar when a thug was holding him from behind and another was coming at him from the front (party fight scene). The last thug i cant remember... I think it was one that was showing off and Batman just kicked him.

In any case i didnt say that Forever had the perfect fight scenes, just that the opening one especially (in the bank) was pretty good. Batman had a bigger variety of moves in that one scene that nolan's had in two movies.

Anyway, i think Nolan is taking the realism way too far. He made a batsuit and tried to work with it. Schumacher used countless batsuits to help the stuntmen film the fight scenes. Did you ever see the batsuit crease? Did you ever feel Batman was heavy in that suit? Never.
I can only assume they made suits that accommodated kicks (maybe the pants had openings), others for punches, and others that looked how the batsuit should really look for the talking scenes.

IMHO, Nolan's batman fights in a very heavy, slow and fake way. The opening garage fight scene and the hong kong one were atrocious. The one in Maroni's club was the best. In the party fight scene, he had some nice moves (and we want some elite fight moves. Batman should be in a class of his own, not fighting like the thugs) but the execution wasnt so good. I especially hated how he fought too much in Keysi in that scene. Moving around with his elbows up and crap... Keysi is effective in very confined spaces. When you re fighting three thugs and the joker, you cant expect the others to come 20cm from your face and crash onto your elbows... Jesus Christ! Not to mention that punches and kicks look infinitely better than elbow hits. I wish he kicked and punched more...

Oh... and one more thing... Those punch sounds they use... My god they are so fake....

Sorry but the way Forever thugs fought is ultra fake, the last guy runs towards Batman and he side step to save him from falling, horrible horrible and even if TDK party scene wasn"t perfect at least looked as a real fight because doesn"t matter how good you are you will get hit with more than one agressor.

Elite moves???

Nah, too many Delta Team movies, those systems are made of regular techniques with some eye gouging and other dirty moves, Nolan wants to show his style even if he knows is not the Jackie Chan or Tony Jaa"s fanatics.

 

[returntovoid]

Here are some good examples of how the fight scenes should be done.

Sewers Challenge Map from Batman: Arkham Asylum:



Underground Fight Scene from Enter the Dragon:



There are better ways to improve the fight scene without turning it into Watchmen/300 or The Matrix with all that silly slow-motion.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I was thinking...I've see people praise that move where Batman shoves that guys head into another guys gun as he is about to fire it. WTF? How is that a good move? That bullet could of gone anywhere, and think about how many innocents were surrounding them.

Complete lack of thought process in the choreography.

 

[returntovoid]

I was thinking...I've see people praise that move where Batman shoves that guys head into another guys gun as he is about to fire it. WTF? How is that a good move? That bullet could of gone anywhere, and think about how many innocents were surrounding them.

Complete lack of thought process in the choreography.

I have never noticed that move, I might need to watch it again.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea in the Penthouse fight.

 

[returntovoid]

I was going to post the Daredevil bar fight as one of the examples of improving the fight scenes but no one on YouTube bothered to upload it.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea that fight was great. Proper visceral and brutal. And not too fancy either.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I was going to post the Daredevil bar fight as one of the examples of improving the fight scenes but no one on YouTube bothered to upload it.

Yea that fight was great. Proper visceral and brutal. And not too fancy either.

Proper amount of fancy. DD moved like a ninja. With fast, advanced moves.

Here are some good examples of how the fight scenes should be done.

Sewers Challenge Map from Batman: Arkham Asylum:



Underground Fight Scene from Enter the Dragon:



There are better ways to improve the fight scene without turning it into Watchmen/300 or The Matrix with all that silly slow-motion.

That Arkham Asylum video was great. It had some supernatural moves, but most of it was pretty plausible. Who would have thought that batman could kick? Not Nolan...

As for the part in bold, why do people use the strawman arguement so much? I mean, if someone wants faster and more advanced moves from Batman, he isnt necessarily asking for those Watchmen bullcrap fight scenes where Veidt kicked Rorschach in the head and he flew across the room.

Watching the BB extras, the martial arts people that worked in the movie said that they wanted batman to move like a raging bull, going through the opponent and obliterating him. Their idea was right, batman should move like that. He does so in Arkham Asylum and in the Nolan movies to a certain extent. But sometimes he overuses the Keysi method and the variety of his moves is limited. I can only imagine how hard it is to move in that batsuit, but they have to up their game. As for elbows, they can be very effective but they cant be your first choice of move because you need to be very close to your opponent. When Batman first crashes the penthouse party, he is holding his hands up and is trying to elbow everyone when he could easily have punched them out. Terrible!

IMHO they need a new martial arts team that will open up Batman's fighting method even more.

Here is the party scene: (notice the first thug after he beats the joker, and the last thug of the fight. JESUS)
[YT]THNbKOs8hM0[/YT]

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Well yea there was some advanced moves in there, but it wasn't completely over the top or fantastical. You could still imagine a guy with insane acrobatic and martial arts skills could pull them off.

 

[Mr. Earle]

a guy with insane acrobatic and martial arts skills

A guy like Bruce Wayne for example?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

hehe incidentally...yes!

 

[Mr. Earle]

hehe incidentally...yes!

Eh... No way that stupid, arrogant, obnoxious playboy could be Batman...
It must be someone else... What about that reporter in the Daily Planet? He looks well built...

 

[Kent]

I was going to post the Daredevil bar fight as one of the examples of improving the fight scenes but no one on YouTube bothered to upload it.

If you remove the part where he *shudder* surfs on some dudes body down a stair railing, then I'll agree, that fight would be a decent example of how it should work.

Added by Edit:

In BB I always felt like the fast editing and frantic, unclear fighting worked for a lot of the scenes. However, in the fight with the ninjas near the end, as well as the fight with Ra's Al Ghul could've been a lot better.

In TDK they sort of improved on this. We got some clearer fights. However, instead it became kind of obvious that the choreography wasn't tight enough. It looked to me, at times, like the villains had plenty of time to react to what Bats was doing. Maybe shoot it this way, but speed up the footage ever so slightly?

 

[returntovoid]

A guy like Bruce Wayne for example?

And Bruce Lee?

 

[returntovoid]

I was just going through YouTube and found this cool fanmade Batman scene. I got to say that the fight scenes are very clear in this video.

[YT]_hbnU4jF9fw[/YT]

Proper amount of fancy. DD moved like a ninja. With fast, advanced moves.

Indeed, that fight was the most memorable part of DD for me.

For Batman moving/fighting like a agile ninja requires the cloth and leather-like Batsuit.

Affleck wore a leather suit as Daredevil and yet the fight was very agile.

 

[Piuchén]

I was just going through YouTube and found this cool fanmade Batman scene. I got to say that the fight scenes are very clear in this video.

[YT]_hbnU4jF9fw[/YT]



Indeed, that fight was the most memorable part of DD for me.

For Batman moving/fighting like a agile ninja requires the cloth and leather-like Batsuit.

Affleck wore a leather suit as Daredevil and yet the fight was very agile.

Yeah but they used some effects that Nolan doesn't want.

 

[Brother Jack]

For Batman moving/fighting like a agile ninja requires the cloth and leather-like Batsuit.

No it does not.

 

[returntovoid]

Yeah but they used some effects that Nolan doesn't want.

I know.... Because of the damn uber-realism!

No it does not.

How can a person be able to do agile escape-artist moves and fight like a agile ninja in a damn heavy rubber suit???

 

[darknight7]

Only Taken and the Bourne Movies portray fighters like they are, go back and watch a Jason Bourne movie, and then go watch Begins or TDK. Jason Bourne is a brutal and very intelligent fighter, Bales Batman has 3 moves, which he does over and over again.

That's how I feel too when watching the fights in BB or TDK. Watch the Arkham fight in BB and Hong Kong or Bar fight in TDK... it's like: Grapple, elbow, fore arm, eblow, eblow, grapple, fore arm, eblow, fore arm, fore arm.

(I don't hate it, but at the same time, I'm sure it could be done better)

I hated that in TDK, Batman didnt throw one kick! (Except at the door to save Harvey).

Hahah this made me laugh, so true

--dk7

 

[Piuchén]

That's how I feel too when watching the fights in BB or TDK. Watch the Arkham fight in BB and Hong Kong or Bar fight in TDK... it's like: Grapple, elbow, fore arm, eblow, eblow, grapple, fore arm, eblow, fore arm, fore arm.

(I don't hate it, but at the same time, I'm sure it could be done better)


Hahah this made me laugh, so true

--dk7

That's the style Nolan chose and we won't see something more acrobatic.

 

[Mr. Earle]

We can hope though cant we?

 

[Infinity9999x]

That's the style Nolan chose and we won't see something more acrobatic.

I'm not necessarily hoping for something more acrobatic, but something that's filmed better. TDK did a better job with the fight editing, but it still wasn't the best. If they just pulled the camera back a bit it would help so much more.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

And got the stunt actors to not fall over before getting hit, or stand there waiting for Batman to hit them.

People can go on and on about the fighting style Nolan chose. But the FACT is, Batman is a master of MULTIPLE martial arts, not just one boring style that consists of...

Elbow, fore arm, grapple, elbow, punch, fore arm, grapple etc.

Now no one is asking for triple somersaults and spinning round house kicks. But just some more variation to his moves. He fights like a ****ing robot frankly.