Infinity

[JewishHobbit]

No, it wouldn't be out of left field if you'd been reading Avengers. And the White Event itself isn't what's important, it's the Superflows that cause the White Event, which have been dieing. And the Superflows WERE mentioned in the event while the Builders were talking to Carol about why they have Nightmask, Starbrand, and Abyss (all creations of their own).

A brief mention without any explanation as to what they're talking about is not enough of a lead-in. I don't even know what you're talking about when you say Superflows, and I actually have no idea what the White Event is. I know it has something to do with New Universe, but that's it.

You knew coming into this that reading Avengers/New Avengers was a prerequisite for the event so you can't be mad at Hickman for carrying elements from them into this event, because this event isn't just a random story, it's an integral part in the overall story Hickman is telling. It's not an isolated event, it's an ongoing story, which makes it more satisfying. Or at least for those who are reading Avengers/New Avengers.

Actually, I can. It was promoted that there were two stories to this event. If you wanted to read the space epic, you read Avengers. If you wanted to follow Thanos' invasion of Earth, you follow the core mini and New Avengers. Being that I follow New Avengers, I was cool with that. That's how it was promoted, so that's what I was expecting. Instead, they integrate the two so deeply that the reader HAS to buy all 6 issues of Avengers to understand the space story that's sometimes covered even more in the core mini than the Thanos invasion of Earth .

Now if I just read Infinity and New Avengers like they said I would be able to, I'm getting chunks of the space epic that make no sense alone, and sometimes it's 90% of the issue. Not only is it false advertising, but Hickman isn't even trying to write an event. He's writing a depthless arc of Avengers like a Michael Bay film.

So yeah, it might be a great story in Hickman's Avengers run, it isn't a very good event as we've come to know them.


Personally, I think Marvel misled readers about the layout of the event to get people buying the first few issues of each title. Once they were hooked, they'd likely buy everything like sheep. But if they knew the event was 17 issues long, many people (myself included) wouldn't have even given it a shot. It was basically pulling the wool over the buyers' eyes. Most people who are lied to like that would be in an uproar. Sadly, we Marvel fans are sheep and just encourage them to keep doing it.

It honestly makes me angry that they "fooled" me like that. I'd drop the book on principal but it wouldn't mean a thing, so why bother? Though I am considering dropping it and New Avengers overall, despite my interest in the Wakanda/Atlantis war. I just don't feel like being roped into crap events like this again, as we all know it'll happen.

 

[Mr. Dent]

A brief mention without any explanation as to what they're talking about is not enough of a lead-in. I don't even know what you're talking about when you say Superflows, and I actually have no idea what the White Event is. I know it has something to do with New Universe, but that's it.

There's no point in retreading old explanations that were already gone into detail at painful length through multiple issues in his Avengers run. Again, blame yourself for not reading Hickman's stuff before hand despite knowing it would be a prerequisite, as this is A PART of his story and not just a random event, and they said this going into it. If it you want to know what the Superflow and White Events are it takes 10 seconds to wiki them, which you're just going to have chalk up to as a hit you'll have to take for not reading his other stuff.

Actually, I can. It was promoted that there were two stories to this event. If you wanted to read the space epic, you read Avengers. If you wanted to follow Thanos' invasion of Earth, you follow the core mini and New Avengers. Being that I follow New Avengers, I was cool with that. That's how it was promoted, so that's what I was expecting. Instead, they integrate the two so deeply that the reader HAS to buy all 6 issues of Avengers to understand the space story that's sometimes covered even more in the core mini than the Thanos invasion of Earth .

Wut? You just said yourself that they said it would be a two-perspective story and that you were only reading it from one perspective, then go on to complain about not knowing that the second perspective would be covered?? Dude wat lol. You're not making sense.

Now if I just read Infinity and New Avengers like they said I would be able to, I'm getting chunks of the space epic that make no sense alone, and sometimes it's 90% of the issue. Not only is it false advertising, but Hickman isn't even trying to write an event. He's writing a depthless arc of Avengers like a Michael Bay film.

You obviously misunderstood what they meant. They didn't guarantee you that you would know every detail about the space stuff, they specifically said if you wanted the full experience then you should read all three of the books. BUT, if you don't want to do that and only want to follow the Earth stuff, then you can do that, you'll just be missing out on 1/3rd of the story, which they never denied. You should have known if you didn't read the space oriented book then you would be missing out on the space oriented story portion of the event. It's common sense.

So yeah, it might be a great story in Hickman's Avengers run, it isn't a very good event as we've come to know them.

Personally, I think Marvel misled readers about the layout of the event to get people buying the first few issues of each title. Once they were hooked, they'd likely buy everything like sheep. But if they knew the event was 17 issues long, many people (myself included) wouldn't have even given it a shot. It was basically pulling the wool over the buyers' eyes. Most people who are lied to like that would be in an uproar. Sadly, we Marvel fans are sheep and just encourage them to keep doing it.

It honestly makes me angry that they "fooled" me like that. I'd drop the book on principal but it wouldn't mean a thing, so why bother? Though I am considering dropping it and New Avengers overall, despite my interest in the Wakanda/Atlantis war. I just don't feel like being roped into crap events like this again, as we all know it'll happen.

No, you misunderstood what they said, and in pretty silly manner. Literally, what you're complaining about, in layman's terms, is that they told you it's a two perspective story and you're upset that the core event includes the second perspective that you don't read...which they never denied it would.

If you don't read Avengers you're going to miss large portions of the Avengers perspective of the story. I don't understand how they mislead you when all it takes is common sense to figure this out.

It's been a great event for those of us following all Hickman's build up and concept introductions through the first 14 issues of his run. I haven't read an Avengers-centric event this good since Galactic Storm.

Anyway, I don't think it takes a lot to figure out you should just wait for the TPBs.

 

[JewishHobbit]

There's no point in retreading old explanations that were already gone into detail at painful length through multiple issues in his Avengers run. Again, blame yourself for not reading Hickman's stuff before hand despite knowing it would be a prerequisite, as this is A PART of his story and not just a random event, and they said this going into it. If it you want to know what the Superflow and White Events are it takes 10 seconds to wiki them, which you're just going to have chalk up to as a hit you'll have to take for not reading his other stuff.

Here's the thing. While I'm annoyed that I didn't think to copy it, I just looked up old interviews on CBR to see if I misread everything. Hickman himself said that you don't need to read anything going into this event and that everything will be explained in the first issue. As of now, the Builders haven't been explained as anything more than another typical threat that's apparently old and powerful. To the best of my memory, he's given NO explanation in the core mini as to how the Builders' system works or who Ex Nihlo and Abyss' people are. And as mentioned before, he's not given any indication that the white event is a thing. Heck, that blonde dude just randomly saved the day without him giving any explanation of who the heck he is or what his power is. He just randomly shows up and does it.

Does any of that sound like "You don't need to know anything coming in" to you? A new reader should have to do research to understand a new reader friendly story. That's the antithesis of 'new reader friendly'.

Wut? You just said yourself that they said it would be a two-perspective story and that you were only reading it from one perspective, then go on to complain about not knowing that the second perspective would be covered?? Dude wat lol. You're not making sense.

Yes, because early interviews and info releases said that the space stories would be in Avengers and various tie-ins and that the New Avengers story would be in New Avenger and the core mini. Indicating separate storytelling. Basically, something happens that takes the Avengers off planet (either in Infinity 1 or in their own title leading into Infinity) and we have two separate stories with the Infinity tag. As Hickman called it "A Choose Your Own Adventure" regarding which story you wanted to read.

You obviously misunderstood what they meant. They didn't guarantee you that you would know every detail about the space stuff, they specifically said if you wanted the full experience then you should read all three of the books. BUT, if you don't want to do that and only want to follow the Earth stuff, then you can do that, you'll just be missing out on 1/3rd of the story, which they never denied. You should have known if you didn't read the space oriented book then you would be missing out on the space oriented story portion of the event. It's common sense.

No, you misunderstood what they said, and in pretty silly manner. Literally, what you're complaining about, in layman's terms, is that they told you it's a two perspective story and you're upset that the core event includes the second perspective that you don't read...which they never denied it would.

If you don't read Avengers you're going to miss large portions of the Avengers perspective of the story. I don't understand how they mislead you when all it takes is common sense to figure this out.

You say all this now, but let's have a look back...

Right after the event was announced. You made THIS post linking to the article and state that the Avengers title will deal with the space stuff and Thanos is dealt with in New Avengers and the core mini.... as the press release states.

And then a few posts later, you clarify again.

Then when I show hesitation after realizing how the event is actually going to play out (shown HERE), you correct me by saying I still wouldn't have to read Avengers for their portion of the story (shown HERE).

So is it really fair to say I jumped to silly conclusions when you not only jumped to the same ones (based on the fact that we were TOLD that was the layout), and that you even corrected me when I stated we'll have to buy all three books for the story? And in the early pages of this thread, we weren't the only ones to believe that either.

I noticed in later interviews it was reported that the space story was in Avengers and the core mini and New Avengers was stand alone. And then later that the core mini would split the two but be stand alone. And then later that you have to read everything for the full story (which has been stated in every event prior to this and proven untrue). So can you see where the confusion comes from? I don't think Hickman, Brevoort, or Alonso were on the same page regarding how to promote the layout of this event. They were tripping over themselves left and right. And that was just the 3 or 4 pages of CBR interviews that I read.

Anyway, I don't think it takes a lot to figure out you should just wait for the TPBs.

Unless I want to buy some massive, overpriced Infinity Omnibus, I'll pass. Marvel has a bad habit of not collecting things properly. They'll probably collect the New Avengers issues together in one trade, the Infinity mini in another trade, and the Avengers into a 3rd trade. And if you want all of them in the proper order, you'll have to spend massive. And they'll never put New Avengers 8 into it's proper spot. It'll always be in the prelude stuff even though it takes place after Infinity 1.

 

[habitual]

I think if you want to bottom line it, if you're not familiar with the New Universe/Starbrand you're not going to get the same enjoyment out of this event.

Hab

 

[StreetWarrior]

Marvel shouldn't be expected to dumb down or simplify an event because a few readers haven't been keeping up with two of the company's flagship title.

I can't believe some of the complaints people have had about Infinity. People are just looking for reasons to cry and moan now.

 

[Specter313]

I think if you want to bottom line it, if you're not familiar with the New Universe/Starbrand you're not going to get the same enjoyment out of this event.

Hab

Starbrand has had pretty much little to no effect on this event until the last issue where he finally used his power to destroy that ship, and his character was described enough in the Avengers title leading up to it that readers would be familiar enough with him. Nothing else having to do with the New Universe is any way remotely involved in Infinity, so I have no idea why you think people have to know anything about it to enjoy this event. It is focused on Thanos invading earth and the Builders stuff that Hickman has been building up in Avengers.

 

[Specter313]

INFINITY #4 (of 6)
JONATHAN HICKMAN (W) • JEROME OPEñA & DUSTIN WEAVER (A)
Cover BY ADAM KUBERT
Design Variant by JEROME OPENA
Generals Variant by IN-HYUK LEE
Hero Variant by RYAN STEGMAN
Young Variant by SKOTTIE YOUNG
• Negotiating the fall of worlds.
• The Illuminati versus Thanos.
• Thor, God of War.
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

 

[Mr. Dent]

Can't wait to see Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Marvel shouldn't be expected to dumb down or simplify an event because a few readers haven't been keeping up with two of the company's flagship title.

Who said anything about dumbing down or simplifying? Just do a better job of putting it together and explaining things to new readers.

I can't believe some of the complaints people have had about Infinity. People are just looking for reasons to cry and moan now.

So if someone doesn't like something, they're looking for reasons to cry and moan about? Someone can't genuinely dislike something without having to search for reasons to dislike it? And I don't dislike the story, I just don't like the way they've chosen to present it.

 

[habitual]

Starbrand has had pretty much little to no effect on this event until the last issue where he finally used his power to destroy that ship, and his character was described enough in the Avengers title leading up to it that readers would be familiar enough with him. Nothing else having to do with the New Universe is any way remotely involved in Infinity, so I have no idea why you think people have to know anything about it to enjoy this event. It is focused on Thanos invading earth and the Builders stuff that Hickman has been building up in Avengers.

il

Because it's already been stated that the White Event is linked in some way to the Builders and is pretty much part of the paradigm of what's occurring.

I don't understand how you could think it wasn't integral to at least half of the event.

Hab

 

[habitual]

Marvel shouldn't be expected to dumb down or simplify an event because a few readers haven't been keeping up with two of the company's flagship title.

Who said anything about dumbing down or simplifying? Just do a better job of putting it together and explaining things to new readers.



So if someone doesn't like something, they're looking for reasons to cry and moan about? Someone can't genuinely dislike something without having to search for reasons to dislike it? And I don't dislike the story, I just don't like the way they've chosen to present it.

I agree that this could've been handled better.

Hab

 

[JewishHobbit]

Well, it looks like the final issue of Infinity is getting a price hike (per THIS article). So instead of the final issue being $5, it's now $6. Like they don't gauge enough.

I may be alone in my Infinity dislike here, my people are apparently over at the Bleeding Cool forums. Those people are ripping Infinity apart, and they don't like this price hike either.

 

[Mr. Dent]

I read that thread and it doesn't even look like most of them are reading the event, if they read comics at all and aren't +1ing in an article thread.

And seriously, if you don't like it that much I don't understand why you're still buying it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I like the Thanos/New Avengers aspects. Unfortunately, there are times when I'm paying $4 for maybe 10 pages of material that I'm interested in, sometimes less (such as with Infinity 3). I will likely pass on the rest of the Avengers comics, but it still sucks that I can't just read the portion that interests me like how they first advertised it.

Plus, as of now I plan on continuing with New Avengers when it is finished. This, unfortunately, is a part of that ongoing story. Fortunately, I've figured out a method of making me like it more. I sometimes bind my comics into their own hardbacks. Whenever I get around to binding an Illuminati centric ongoing bind, I can easily just cut out nearly all aspects of the space story from Infinity (save maybe a few scenes of issue one to explain why the Avenger left Earth) and have a bind of only the Thanos/New Avengers story. Knowing that, I don't feel as compelled to buy the typically essential Avengers tie-ins. It makes me happier. But of course, that only really applies depending on how the two plots crash together in the end.

 

[habitual]

Well, it looks like the final issue of Infinity is getting a price hike (per THIS article). So instead of the final issue being $5, it's now $6. Like they don't gauge enough.

I may be alone in my Infinity dislike here, my people are apparently over at the Bleeding Cool forums. Those people are ripping Infinity apart, and they don't like this price hike either.

I think this version of Thanos is sub-standard in comparison to Giffen's.

The price hike also sucks.

Hab

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, this Thanos is so far pretty bleh compared to Giffen's, but he's barely done anything so we can't really compare.

 

[jaqua99]

My thoughts, and I will use spoiler tags this time, so don't look if you haven't read yet. t:

First of all. I loved this issue..this very well may have been my favorite issue of any comic I've read.

Very, very good. Though...

Spoiler

My three favorite characters being awesome in it certainly played a role

Spoiler

Thor killing the builder was awesome, and swaying Ronan. I love Ronan, the guy is awesome. It's so freakin great to see Thor written the way he should be again

Spoiler

Also, what do we think of Thanos tanking, not one, but THREE screams from black Bolt? I mean, I knew he was durable, but I figured that ONE scream would atleast be able to knock him on his ass

 

[random_havoc]

I've hated this mini so far. Titling it infinity gave me the impression it was going to finally be the big Thanos event the character deserves. Haven't had a good one since Infinity Gauntlet. Instead I see a bunch of stuff about some nigh invincible "builders" and their fleet, none of which I give a crap about. I didn't give a crap about them in the Avengers still don't. Which means half the event is essentially useless to me.
On top of that, talk about splintering the story line. There's already 2 separate big threats that have nothing to do with each other, both of which are threats to the whole Earth. And then in New Avengers there's the third world threatening event. Holy crap, what is Hickman thinking? Pick a friggin story.
Not to mention, hmm, can I think of a time in the past few years when a mysterious fleet came out of nowhere and overpowered all of the known galactic fleets? Oh, wait, yeah that's every cosmic storyline they've done for years. Gee, I wonder if the next cosmic storyline might have a big mysterious fleet that comes out of nowhere that overpowers all the known galactic fleets? I THINK SO!

 

[JewishHobbit]

I do feel like they just merged the ideas of Annihilation, Secret Invasion, and War of Kings to create Infinity.

Builders = Annihilation Wave
Avengers = Nova & the Resistance
Thanos = Vulcan
Blackbolt = Blackbolt
The Black Order & their alien forces = Spider-Woman, Pym, Jarvis, Dugan, & the Skrulls

We even have Yu as one of the primary artists

 

[habitual]

I do feel like they just merged the ideas of Annihilation, Secret Invasion, and War of Kings to create Infinity.

Builders = Annihilation Wave
Avengers = Nova & the Resistance
Thanos = Vulcan
Blackbolt = Blackbolt
The Black Order & their alien forces = Spider-Woman, Pym, Jarvis, Dugan, & the Skrulls

We even have Yu as one of the primary artists

I really think Annihilation was head and shoulders above those other events, this one is pretty good, but, not as good.

Hab

 

[mwmillett]

Here's the thing. While I'm annoyed that I didn't think to copy it, I just looked up old interviews on CBR to see if I misread everything. Hickman himself said that you don't need to read anything going into this event and that everything will be explained in the first issue. As of now, the Builders haven't been explained as anything more than another typical threat that's apparently old and powerful. To the best of my memory, he's given NO explanation in the core mini as to how the Builders' system works or who Ex Nihlo and Abyss' people are. And as mentioned before, he's not given any indication that the white event is a thing. Heck, that blonde dude just randomly saved the day without him giving any explanation of who the heck he is or what his power is. He just randomly shows up and does it.

Does any of that sound like "You don't need to know anything coming in" to you? A new reader should have to do research to understand a new reader friendly story. That's the antithesis of 'new reader friendly'.




Yes, because early interviews and info releases said that the space stories would be in Avengers and various tie-ins and that the New Avengers story would be in New Avenger and the core mini. Indicating separate storytelling. Basically, something happens that takes the Avengers off planet (either in Infinity 1 or in their own title leading into Infinity) and we have two separate stories with the Infinity tag. As Hickman called it "A Choose Your Own Adventure" regarding which story you wanted to read.




You say all this now, but let's have a look back...

Right after the event was announced. You made THIS post linking to the article and state that the Avengers title will deal with the space stuff and Thanos is dealt with in New Avengers and the core mini.... as the press release states.

And then a few posts later, you clarify again.

Then when I show hesitation after realizing how the event is actually going to play out (shown HERE), you correct me by saying I still wouldn't have to read Avengers for their portion of the story (shown HERE).

So is it really fair to say I jumped to silly conclusions when you not only jumped to the same ones (based on the fact that we were TOLD that was the layout), and that you even corrected me when I stated we'll have to buy all three books for the story? And in the early pages of this thread, we weren't the only ones to believe that either.

I noticed in later interviews it was reported that the space story was in Avengers and the core mini and New Avengers was stand alone. And then later that the core mini would split the two but be stand alone. And then later that you have to read everything for the full story (which has been stated in every event prior to this and proven untrue). So can you see where the confusion comes from? I don't think Hickman, Brevoort, or Alonso were on the same page regarding how to promote the layout of this event. They were tripping over themselves left and right. And that was just the 3 or 4 pages of CBR interviews that I read.



Unless I want to buy some massive, overpriced Infinity Omnibus, I'll pass. Marvel has a bad habit of not collecting things properly. They'll probably collect the New Avengers issues together in one trade, the Infinity mini in another trade, and the Avengers into a 3rd trade. And if you want all of them in the proper order, you'll have to spend massive. And they'll never put New Avengers 8 into it's proper spot. It'll always be in the prelude stuff even though it takes place after Infinity 1.

Actually my friend, the over-sized hardbacks are cheaper, I know it doesn't look like it especially if you bought it in a comic store without a discount however if you were to buy say Iron-Man volume 1, by fraction, that has 22 issues for base price of like 35 bucks. Buy online with books a million and you can get anywhere between 15-35 percent off. The recent AvX hardback had the base Avx story, and all the AvX vs sissues for like 45 bucks.(with online discount) Yeah i know its not a lot cheaper, like some people might think it should be, but the new hardbacks also come with a free digital download as well, (as do most individual issues) so if you want to reread later and don't feel like potentially damaging your collection the hardbacks aren't a bad buy.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I don't like waiting to read a story because everything will be spoiled for me by the time it comes out. And you never know how Marvel will put them together. There are so many times when I look at a trade I'm interested in, only to find that it isn't complete or isn't in the order I'd prefer. I'm trying to remember what it was, but there was an over sized event hardcover (I'm thinking Siege, but I could be wrong) that included the main event, Avengers, etc. The thing is, they just grouped the Siege issues together, then the Avengers issues together, and then whatever else. There was no reading continuity to the title at all. That was horrible.

In the event of Infinity, I wouldn't like it at all because it's detailing a large chunk of story that I'm not interested in, and I'm unsure how it'd be laid out. Also, a "prelude" issue of New Avengers should come after Infinity 1 but likely wouldn't be included at all, instead being included in a previous volume of New Avengers, which would annoy the crap out of me.

So yeah, while I like trades to an extent, they're typically more annoying to me than they're worth. And I'd get a paperback over a hardback any day, but they take too long to come out, resulting in the story being ruined and me being way behind by the time I can buy them.

 

[Mr. Dent]

lol I think the Infinity HC solicitation spoiled a plotline that has yet to occue in the event:

Spoiler

The year's most anticipated blockbuster cosmic event is here, as the Marvel Universe marches towards Infinity! The mad ti tan Thanos makes his world-shattering return, and his armies fire the opening shots of a galactic war that will be fought both on Earth and in deep space - with our heroes caught between both battles! As Thanos' secrets are revealed, the Inhumans' city of Attilan falls, and the Illuminati find themselves on the front line! And as every Origin Site on Earth goes active, the Builders enter the Marvel Universe. But can the Avengers return to Earth in ti me to save it, when betrayal in the Galactic Council has left them prisoners of war? Galactic empires will fall as Thanos' crazed plans come to fruition!

COLLECTING: INFINITY 1-6, NEW AVENGERS 7-12, AVENGERS 12-23, INFINITY INFINITE COMIC 1-2

Well, nice to know it won't be as easy as it seemed lol.

 

[runawayboulder]

Good lord, these guys and their solicitations. They're either generic and vanilla or a spoiler minefield.

 

[Specter313]

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