The Dark Knight Intensity of Fight sequences in TDK!

Which fight scenes were better choreographed?

  • TDK

  • Batman Begins

  • They were the same


Results are only viewable after voting.
Well I always thought that he should use Jeet Kune Do, The Way of The Intersepting Fist, Bruce Lee's Fighting method.

It has NO form and is ment to addapt. like if a JKD student was fighting a Kenpo student or a Judo Student, it would addapt.

and Bruce came up with this system for street fighting. witch is what Batman is doing.
 
I don't care what style of fighting they use...I just want to be able to see it this time around. :cool:
 
I understand why Nolan edited so quickly but I'm a fight choreographer so it irritated the hell out of me that we couldn't see how Batman fought.

From the documentary, it looks like KFM combines Wing Chun, Jiu Jitsu, Escrima (when he used sticks), and Karate. Its a good concept but having your hands behind your ear leaves your centerline open. One thing you need to do in martial arts is protect your center. That's my critique. I saw a clip of Mission Impossible 3 where Tom Cruise uses KFM. The stance looks kind of ridiculous.
 
I don't care if he fights like Ralph Machio from the Karate Kid as long as I can see it. I'm a martial artist and it kills me to not be able to see the so called best fighter in the world. I've been a HUGE Batman fan for over 20 years and it's overly annoying to not see one of the things that makes Batman be Batman. I don't care the reason behind the filming style it's un-nerving to not see a thing.

With that said, and being a martial artist, I would be happy with an amalgamation of fighting techinques. The KMF style has it's benefits, it's grity which fits into the real world, but it leaves it's center line open a lot which is never a good thing. Akido works well like someone else posted but no matter what you do it's always helpful to throw a strike at one point or another, besides I've trained with Akido students and they were very limited in technique when training with another martial artist. From a movie standpoint it's more entertaining to see punches and kicks, at least it is for me as a movie watcher. Speaking of the kicks, where are they? Kicks are frowned upon in real life for obvious reasons but this is a movie, have a little fun with it. I know the movie is supposed to be as real as possible but some basic kicking tecniques will not only be overly effetive but real and entertaining to watch. Stop filming the action 2 inches away from that action. It's called a zoom, it goes both ways.
 
I thought Keysi was coming back? Didn't someone say that in an interview?
 
From the documentary, it looks like KFM combines Wing Chun, Jiu Jitsu, Escrima (when he used sticks), and Karate. Its a good concept but having your hands behind your ear leaves your centerline open. One thing you need to do in martial arts is protect your center. That's my critique. I saw a clip of Mission Impossible 3 where Tom Cruise uses KFM. The stance looks kind of ridiculous.
Yeah, that was my problem with the fighting method looking at the extras. Many times it looked like their hands were glued to their heads or something. :dry:

I feel there's too much focus on the upper area, as opposed to the center. I'd like to see something close to what was portrayed with the Bourne Identity. Similar concepts in using quick and effective methods to take down a person, but it's also more camera friendly in it's grace and style.
 
kfm's pretty cool

it just doesn't read as batman to me to
(hands behind ears and all that)

but at the same time, Nolans batman doesn't actually read as batman either..he's more down and dirty...not really smarter than anyone and just street fights his way out of messes

i stand by some sort of variation of akido...
with that cape it just looks silly to have him doing kung fu stuff...

kfm is for scrapping it out
still heres hoping nolan will get some sense about how to shoot the stuff
 
but at the same time, Nolans batman doesn't actually read as batman either..he's more down and dirty...not really smarter than anyone and just street fights his way out of messes

You've gotta be kidding me? When Batman jumps into the middle of 10 thugs and kicks the crap out of them all at once you call that not reading as Batman and just street fighting? I could name a ton of other instances, how you came to this conclusion boggles the mind.
 
it reads as batman on paper and in theory...(nice work goyer)

he swooped down and undressed ten ppl without them having a chance...

but in execution...if this style is what it seems...then it's not reading as batman...

for example if u had Jackie Chan jump down and undress 14 thugs without being touched once
that would be batman in theory...
but in execution it would be Chan doing his improvish jeetkun do showy style

and not batman the superninja

or am i wrong...

it's very much in the vain as saying the comprehensive skills he gave batman in beings...worked at the end of the day(crime solved)
but in execution

that wasn't smartest man in the room batman
 
That was the one major weakness of BB to me, the fight scenes sucked ass. Nolan needs to pull back from those tight shots and honestly the KMF style was kind of boring and overly complicated.

I think the 'street' style that Wesley Snipes used in Blade just a bit toned down would be visually perfect for Bats.
 
i hope this thread wont again become a thread to bash teh editing style.

i agree keysi was made for batman.
 
The truth of the matter is the fights kinda sucked mainly due to the editing and KMF isn't really that appealing visually at least to me.
 
If I was writing for Batman I would focus less on exotic, fancy styles. I'd have him start training in boxing and wrestling when he was still young. Those forms of combat seem very accessible in the US and it would be easy to hire trainers to come to his mansion. When he turns 18 I would have him travel to Brazil and learn jiu-jitsu, and then later have him travel to Thailand and learn Muay Thai. Although, it seems like in today's America there a lot of quality instructors in America so he wouldn't even have to travel (although that might be problematic to the secret identity). I've always thought the whole "he knows every martial art known to man" was kind of silly. But hey, we are talking about a man who dresses like a giant bat! :oldrazz:

For the movie I think Keysi is okay. Although to be honest, it would be neat to see them incorporate some more jiu-jitsu since Bale's stuntman is a jiu-jitsu champion. The most important thing is to have the camera at a distance to where we can see what is going on. :batman:
 
For the movie I think Keysi is okay. Although to be honest, it would be neat to see them incorporate some more jiu-jitsu since Bale's stuntman is a jiu-jitsu champion. The most important thing is to have the camera at a distance to where we can see what is going on. :batman:


I agree that i'd like to see more of the fight.. but jiu-jitsu has a lot of ground-work and grappling... I prefer Batman to be able to seemingly render a person incapacitated with one or two blows rather than spend time fighting. The more time he spends fighting the less feared he becomes. Thats why I enjoyed the Arkham Asylum and docks fights from BB where he literally just kept appearing/disappearing and took out the thugs before they even knew what was going on.

I'm really hoping that Nolan's Joker will be a skilled fighter... thats what separated the supervillain from the thug... the ability to make the Batman try. lol
 
That was the one major weakness of BB to me, the fight scenes sucked ass. Nolan needs to pull back from those tight shots and honestly the KMF style was kind of boring and overly complicated.

I think the 'street' style that Wesley Snipes used in Blade just a bit toned down would be visually perfect for Bats.

yeah, the "blade type fighting" would work well, but some of it was so bs.

toned down version as you said would work well.
 
One particular style for Batman on film is already inaccurate. Not only is Batman supposed to be versed in many styles, which Begins never really went into, but in Begins he was constantly doing the KFM technique, or at least I think he did considering I couldn't see much. Having your hands behind your head is a possible technique but it should not be used in every scenario, especially not in a movie. The only time somone should grap Batman's ears is if a criminal grabs them, Batman should not be placing his hands behind his head all the time, it leaves his entire body open for attack. Traditional fight choregraphy would work well here, basic martial arts where Batman is capable of throwing powerful quick techniques and a couple of throws would show that Batman is better than his opponents. Occasionally, add a special technique in to add a nod to a a particular style of martial arts. The key here is to really have the camera move far away from the fight scenes, at least let us see the fight. I said it before, the Karate Kid movie fight scenes were more enjoyable to watch because I could see them, and they were bad.
 
One particular style for Batman on film is already inaccurate. Not only is Batman supposed to be versed in many styles, which Begins never really went into, but in Begins he was constantly doing the KFM technique, or at least I think he did considering I couldn't see much.

Actually, that is the very reason I think KFM is best for Batman. It is a fairly new style, is pretty much unknown save for amongst us Batman fanatics and just looks 'different' enough from traditional martial arts, which is exactly what Batman needs. He is a master of many martial arts and him subscribing to any recognizable single style just doesn't make sense. His fighting style needs to be something of his own amalgamation of all the different styles he knows already. And looking at Buster Reeves' fight rehearsals, KFM's moves are very snappy and impulsive, with a lot of improvisation - perfect for Batman.

Having your hands behind your head is a possible technique but it should not be used in every scenario, especially not in a movie.

WTF? Did we even watch the same film? When did he ever had his hands behind his ear in every scenario? I mean, here's a gif of the entire multi-ninja fight sequence and there's not a single instance where he keeps his hands behind his head like a stance or anything:

yay1dg.gif


The only time somone should grap Batman's ears is if a criminal grabs them, Batman should not be placing his hands behind his head all the time, it leaves his entire body open for attack.

I think the think that stands out in KFM is that the elbows are constantly raised (but even in the video I posted, the elbows are no higher than the lower chest, so the whole "it's leaves you exposed" crap is B.S). I don't see why that is a problem, considering a lot of the moves are either elbow strikes or strikes that require elbow momentum. And since it's clearly an offensive and improvisational style, I don't see why defense is so important here. Like in JKD, the emphasis in such styles is to intercept or evade incoming strikes rather than block them.

Traditional fight choregraphy would work well here, basic martial arts where Batman is capable of throwing powerful quick techniques and a couple of throws would show that Batman is better than his opponents.

Traditional choreography is the last thing I want to see in a Batman film. Even though the fight scenes were filmed a little too close for comfort, in BB one thing that established without doubt was that Batman is too skilled, too fast, too brutal and too unpredictable for two bit hired muscle to handle. And, he's got the element of surprise on his side. That pretty much makes him unstoppable. And really, I want to see Batman kicking ass as if he's untouchable, as if no one stands a chance against him while the criminals are s**ting their pants just because of his presence and are too timid, too intimidated to properly attack him. It's exactly the way it should be. With his level of training, even in the comics there are few who can put a barely decent fight against him. I don't think there is anyone in TDK of that caliber.

Occasionally, add a special technique in to add a nod to a a particular style of martial arts.

Jesus, no! Batman even remotely or momentarily trying to act like a Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Lee or Tony Jaa is incredibly cringe-worthy. It's just...inappropriate. He should be a totally different and unique beast of it's own kind.
 
Traditional choreography is the last thing I want to see in a Batman film. Even though the fight scenes were filmed a little too close for comfort, in BB one thing that established without doubt was that Batman is too skilled, too fast, too brutal and too unpredictable for two bit hired muscle to handle. And, he's got the element of surprise on his side. That pretty much makes him unstoppable. And really, I want to see Batman kicking ass as if he's untouchable, as if no one stands a chance against him while the criminals are s**ting their pants just because of his presence and are too timid, too intimidated to properly attack him. It's exactly the way it should be. With his level of training, even in the comics there are few who can put a barely decent fight against him. I don't think there is anyone in TDK of that caliber.

Jesus, no! Batman even remotely or momentarily trying to act like a Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Lee or Tony Jaa is incredibly cringe-worthy. It's just...inappropriate. He should be a totally different and unique beast of it's own kind.


Great post. I don't want anything remotely fancy or non-functional, the way to make it interesting is just to fight a large number of people at once. Move away from the criminals eye view a little to something more impartial, but still frenetic, it only needs a small tweak. The Bourne Supremacy has a mad camera and very fast, scrappy moves, but its still comprehensible.
 
Apparently I watched a different movie and documentary than everyone else because what I saw was his arms usually start from the raised elbow hands up by the ears position before he strikes. I never said he grabs his ears, simply that they are up by his ears. I've studied martial arts for years and if you're going to put your elbows up, and spread apart, you better do it well enough to not get hit so don't try to tell me that my way of thinking is crap, it's real. I know Batman is supposed to be the best but the technique leaves a big question in my mind. In the documentary of KFM your center line is wide open which is fine if you're winning but not so much if you're not. I get the whole intercept concept, it's a good practice but nothing works the same way all the time. I understand that KFM is new and makes Batman look like he invented it but there is no reason why it has to be the only thing he does. It would be nice to see other things as well. I have no intention on seeing Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, or any other martial art movie hero like people keep mentioning but a traditional kick, punch, or throw would vary this up enough. Heck, while I was training I altererd a very traditional style technique and ended up ending the move with a right cross. My point is a little of everything is good especially if Batman is supposed to have a little of everything. I'll accept KFM if I can see it more on screen, my arguments will be considerably less if I can see some action and don't need to put the dvd on slow motion to see it. Show me the fight scene well enough and I'll stop complaining about techniques because I'll be too busy enjoying the fighting that Batman should be known for.
 
I wonder what kind of fighting style Joker will have; or will he be even able to put up a fist fight with BatMan?

Or as I have heard maybe his only attack will be slapping a shooting.:woot:
 
I don't know what I was seeing in Batman Begins, but I know it was brutal. That's the sort of fighting I love to see from Batman. He's not a springy, kid friendly kind of fighter like Spider-Man, this is a very good streetfighter with a costume on. And quick question, did Batman and Robin have fight choreography, because if they did.........They need to get their money back.
 
Apparently I watched a different movie and documentary than everyone else because what I saw was his arms usually start from the raised elbow hands up by the ears position before he strikes. I never said he grabs his ears, simply that they are up by his ears.

Uhh, no he doesn't. I posted a gif of an entire fight sequence and not once is he in that raised elbow stance. I mean, good lord, way to bury your head in the sand. :confused:

I've studied martial arts for years and if you're going to put your elbows up, and spread apart, you better do it well enough to not get hit so don't try to tell me that my way of thinking is crap, it's real.

And ten thousand bucks says someone like Batman can do it 'well enough' to not get hit. So yes, your way of thinking is crap.

I know Batman is supposed to be the best but the technique leaves a big question in my mind. In the documentary of KFM your center line is wide open which is fine if you're winning but not so much if you're not.

And since when does anyone in Gotham, save for the bare few villains like Bane or Ra's al Ghul pose a big enough challenge for Batman to not be winning? Did you even read my previous post? Aside from his supervillains rogue gallery, there are a bare few, if any who can handle the caliber of skills Batman has. And it's obvious that in every regular case scenario Batman will always be "winning" not only because he's faster, more skilled, more agile, has the element of surprise on his side, uses misdirection, projectile weapons and other assorted creative fighting techniques, but also that just about regular Gotham scum will be too ****ing scared and jittery to properly compose himself enough to land a direct hit on him, even with a gun, let alone with his hands. :rolleyes:

I get the whole intercept concept, it's a good practice but nothing works the same way all the time.

The same can be said for defense. That is the reason why Bruce Lee pissed on traditional martial arts - because they're generally worth jack **** in unpredictable situations. And is exactly why improvisational styles like KFM, JKD, boxing or even street fighting are more appropriate for Batman.

I understand that KFM is new and makes Batman look like he invented it but there is no reason why it has to be the only thing he does.

Like I said, I don't want Batman pulling moves from a recognizable style. It just cheapens the character and if they don't pull it right, makes him look like some kung-fu star wannabe.

It would be nice to see other things as well. I have no intention on seeing Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, or any other martial art movie hero like people keep mentioning but a traditional kick, punch, or throw would vary this up enough.

Umm, he pulled off 'traditional' punches, kicks and throws in Begins. It's another matter that you couldn't see them bright as day because of the quick cuts, but you can see a good number of 'traditional' moves in the Ra's fight especially - like when he kick Ra's after snapping his blade in two, or when he misses a backhand punch that Ra's ducks under. I mean, damn, if you've seen the film as many times on DVD as one would expect a Batman fan to, you'd have remembered every single frame by now. :dry:

Heck, while I was training I altererd a very traditional style technique and ended up ending the move with a right cross. My point is a little of everything is good especially if Batman is supposed to have a little of everything. I'll accept KFM if I can see it more on screen, my arguments will be considerably less if I can see some action and don't need to put the dvd on slow motion to see it. Show me the fight scene well enough and I'll stop complaining about techniques because I'll be too busy enjoying the fighting that Batman should be known for.

Then your problem is with the editing and not the style. What're you doing arguing in this thread, chuck?
 

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