Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 4

[First Avenger]

This is still redeemable.

 

[Dark Raven]

It's a very salvageable series. You chill Danny out a bit more and add lots more higher quality kung fu and you'll have a great series on your hands.

Well as long as Scott Buck's name isn't attached to it. Even if you add these things you list, I'd still not have confidence in him to execute the whole thing well.

 

[metaphysician]

Suck on that, SJWs. I'm not surprised in the least. Just because it failed critically doesn't mean folks didn't watch it.

And just because people watched it doesn't mean it wasn't terrible. Hopefully they bring in a showrunner who actually knows how to tell a story. Or give a character coherent characterization. Or film a decent fight scene.

 

[RockSP]

It's a very salvageable series. You chill Danny out a bit more and add lots more higher quality kung fu and you'll have a great series on your hands.

They should never have made a Iron Fist show without this...

 

[Man in the Suit]

Iron Fist changing showrunners for season 2

EW has learned the Marvel superhero drama will change showrunners for its next round. Scott Buck (Dexter) is stepping down from the top writing gig on the show with Raven Metzner (Sleepy Hollow, Falling Skies) being hired to fill the top slot.

He also co-wrote the Elektra movie. Everything is fine.

 

[2kt09]

It sure is. Those tv credentials certainly make him better fit.

 

[Dark Raven]

Well I don't know this new guy, but at least it's good news that Buck is no longer on the production. I think it would lose its credibility if Buck remained.

 

[RockSP]

So the new guy wrote that s****y Elektra movie? (insert anime emoticon with big drop of sweat on face)

One can hope he's improved significantly since then...

 

[Kane52630]

Eh, 05 was a long time ago and it was his first gig. I hear good things about Falling Skies and to a lesser extent Sleepy Hollow.

 

[Dr. Evil]

he did a good job with Sleepy Hollow in it's final season and he did some good things on Sleepy Hollow.

 

[Dasher10]

Raven Metzner also did Falling Skies and Sleepy Hollow. In the same way that the more recent X-Men films have managed to dramatically improve with Simon Kinberg involved, (for instance, X-Men: Apocalypse only got middling reviews and that's the worst of the bunch, First Class, The Wolverine, DOFP, Deadpool and Logan were all beloved) it's fair to say that some people who start out as studio hacks manage to dramatically improve over time.

Point being, Buck is out. He ruined not one but two Marvel properties in ways that can only be described as, "mismanagement." If Scott Buck is captain of the ship and manages to make the whole crew look bad, then it's the fault of the Captain.

Stuff like characterization changing from episode to episode can't be blamed on the writers. It's the showrunner who's supposed to work on editing scripts and sending them back to the writers to revise them so they can flow better. The actors sometimes appearing wooden and confused was because they didn't know how to make the dialog work while staying in character and the directors didn't know how to rewrite the dialog to make it work since the plot lacked direction.

The stunt team worked on Marco Polo and did a great job there. The problem was that the stunt team didn't have the time to set up their stunts when they should have set up the stunt shots first and then planned stunts while the next director is working on the next episode. That's what Into The Badlands does. They plan the next episode's stunts in advance by a week. Scott Buck had the stunt team plan the stunts for less than an hour. They were shooting takes on the fly. That's on Scott Buck for poorly scheduling his own show. Nikita and The Last Ship raised the bar. Daredevil and Into The Badlands perfected TV fight scenes. There's no longer an excuse for poor-looking fights on a TV series.

There's also the poor storytelling. Namely the outline for the plot which Scott Buck is responsible for. The writers do what they're paid to do but the plot and pacing are entirely the responsibility of the showrunner. Not having a costume was ultimately Buck's idea since it wasn't in his outline.

The show being unfamiliar with the source material is also unforgivable. The show was based entirely on the pre-Claremont issues which were the weakest Iron Fist material. It sounds like Scott Buck read the first five issues of Iron Fist, then just checked the wiki and saw that Steel Serpent fights Danny in Central Park in the last two Claremont issues and Crane Mother has connections to him in The Fraction/Brubaker run so since Scott couldn't be bothered to read the comics, he just made stuff up and stretched out 4 issues of material across 13 episodes along with one scene from the Claremont/Byrne run.

The lack of a costume also meant that Finn Jones couldn't get a stunt double which made the fight scenes look worse. The costume is needed for a practical reason. Unlike Jessica Henwick, Finn Jones doesn't have a mane of long hair to hide behind. He needs the costume for a basic, simple reason and it's a shame because the show looked worse when he didn't have it.

So yes, this is good news. Raven Metzner is far more competent than Scott Buck. Sleepy Hollow was a major hit for Fox. In contrast, Scott Buck ruined Dexter. I don't care if Metzner's first writing assignment was writing the Elektra film, that was over a decade ago. This is good news.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Raven Metzner also did Falling Skies and Sleepy Hollow. In the same way that the more recent X-Men films have managed to dramatically improve with Simon Kinberg involved, (for instance, X-Men: Apocalypse only got middling reviews and that's the worst of the bunch, First Class, The Wolverine, DOFP, Deadpool and Logan were all beloved) it's fair to say that some people who start out as studio hacks manage to dramatically improve over time.

Point being, Buck is out. He ruined not one but two Marvel properties in ways that can only be described as, "mismanagement." If Scott Buck is captain of the ship and manages to make the whole crew look bad, then it's the fault of the Captain.

Stuff like characterization changing from episode to episode can't be blamed on the writers. It's the showrunner who's supposed to work on editing scripts and sending them back to the writers to revise them so they can flow better. The actors sometimes appearing wooden and confused was because they didn't know how to make the dialog work while staying in character and the directors didn't know how to rewrite the dialog to make it work since the plot lacked direction.

The stunt team worked on Marco Polo and did a great job there. The problem was that the stunt team didn't have the time to set up their stunts when they should have set up the stunt shots first and then planned stunts while the next director is working on the next episode. That's what Into The Badlands does. They plan the next episode's stunts in advance by a week. Scott Buck had the stunt team plan the stunts for less than an hour. They were shooting takes on the fly. That's on Scott Buck for poorly scheduling his own show. Nikita and The Last Ship raised the bar. Daredevil and Into The Badlands perfected TV fight scenes. There's no longer an excuse for poor-looking fights on a TV series.

There's also the poor storytelling. Namely the outline for the plot which Scott Buck is responsible for. The writers do what they're paid to do but the plot and pacing are entirely the responsibility of the showrunner. Not having a costume was ultimately Buck's idea since it wasn't in his outline.

The show being unfamiliar with the source material is also unforgivable. The show was based entirely on the pre-Claremont issues which were the weakest Iron Fist material. It sounds like Scott Buck read the first five issues of Iron Fist, then just checked the wiki and saw that Steel Serpent fights Danny in Central Park in the last two Claremont issues and Crane Mother has connections to him in The Fraction/Brubaker run so since Scott couldn't be bothered to read the comics, he just made stuff up and stretched out 4 issues of material across 13 episodes along with one scene from the Claremont/Byrne run.

The lack of a costume also meant that Finn Jones couldn't get a stunt double which made the fight scenes look worse. The costume is needed for a practical reason. Unlike Jessica Henwick, Finn Jones doesn't have a mane of long hair to hide behind. He needs the costume for a basic, simple reason and it's a shame because the show looked worse when he didn't have it.

So yes, this is good news. Raven Metzner is far more competent than Scott Buck. Sleepy Hollow was a major hit for Fox. In contrast, Scott Buck ruined Dexter. I don't care if Metzner's first writing assignment was writing the Elektra film, that was over a decade ago. This is good news.

I would not call Sleepy Hollow a major hit. It was a minor hit, but it lasted long enough to get four seasons. But still, having been a regular watcher of that show, I can tell you that he's a major improvement over Buck. Plus, maybe we can get more mystical in season two and Metzner is not afraid to do that because of his work on Sleepy Hollow.

 

[Dark Raven]

So what's the official reason they're going to give for having a new showrunner and not rehiring Scott Buck? We all know the reason, but are Marvel going to admit it or make up something else to save face?

 

[Dasher10]

I would not call Sleepy Hollow a major hit. It was a minor hit, but it lasted long enough to get four seasons. But still, having been a regular watcher of that show, I can tell you that he's a major improvement over Buck. Plus, maybe we can get more mystical in season two and Metzner is not afraid to do that because of his work on Sleepy Hollow.

Yep. I want some weird stuff like Colleen Wing's archaeologist father having a copy of the Book of The Iron Fist. Flashbacks to Danny fighting a dragon and ripping its heart out. A man who's lived for over a century but doesn't appear to be older than middle-age who shoots chi-powered bullets. Trains to mystical dimensions in the city hall subway station. Zhou Cheng returning but with a demon inside of him.

You know, the stuff that Scott Buck was scared to show because he was embarrassed by the source material.

Let's put it this way. If Daredevil could have undead ninjas, Jessica Jones had a mind-controlling serial rapist and Luke Cage had an invincible hero, alien bullets and a suit of powered armor, then it's fair to say that Iron Fist was completely embarrassed about being a superhero show in contrast to the other three. Live-action adaptations of superhero comics have to be grounded in contrast to the source material but you can only ground something so much before it becomes mundane and boring.

 

[chamber-music]

“Raven’s love of all things Iron Fist and his extensive knowledge of martial arts films made him the perfect choice to continue telling the adventures of Danny Rand and Colleen Wing,”said EP Jeph Loeb, “Season One and The Defenders are only the beginning of this fantastic action packed tale.”

Some positive sounding things.

Hopefully he gets time to craft a good season

 

[Random490]

I didn't watch all of Falling Skies but when I did it was always really good, that hopeful. I wouldn't put that much into writing elektra, could always be a case of him writing a good script that a studio tore apart.

So what's the official reason they're going to give for having a new showrunner and not rehiring Scott Buck? We all know the reason, but are Marvel going to admit it or make up something else to save face?

It's not uncommon to change showrunners to begin with. It's pretty clear the end product is the reason, but they'll never say it. You're not suppose to throw someone under the bus (at least publicly) because even though he was the showrunner it's still a collaborative effort.

 

[Dasher10]

So what's the official reason they're going to give for having a new showrunner and not rehiring Scott Buck? We all know the reason, but are Marvel going to admit it or make up something else to save face?

"He moved on to other things."

 

[Slick]

I'm glad we're getting a new showrunner even though I liked Iron Fist (I gave it a 7 out of 10) I can admit that Scott Buck wasn't the right fit for the show. But just like with Scott Buck I'm willing to give this new guy a chance.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Yep. I want some weird stuff like Colleen Wing's archaeologist father having a copy of the Book of The Iron Fist. Flashbacks to Danny fighting a dragon and ripping its heart out. A man who's lived for over a century but doesn't appear to be older than middle-age who shoots chi-powered bullets. Trains to mystical dimensions in the city hall subway station. Zhou Cheng returning but with a demon inside of him.

You know, the stuff that Scott Buck was scared to show because he was embarrassed by the source material.

Let's put it this way. If Daredevil could have undead ninjas, Jessica Jones had a mind-controlling serial rapist and Luke Cage had an invincible hero, alien bullets and a suit of powered armor, then it's fair to say that Iron Fist was completely embarrassed about being a superhero show in contrast to the other three. Live-action adaptations of superhero comics have to be grounded in contrast to the source material but you can only ground something so much before it becomes mundane and boring.

That is an expert analysis especially your previous post. I am even more optimistic thanks to you!

 

[Dark Raven]

"He moved on to other things."

I hope he moves onto the next sequel to Fifty Shades of Grey. He'd love all the boardroom scenes.

 

[Mike Murdock]

He also co-wrote the Elektra movie. Everything is fine.

Melissa Rosenberg wrote the Twilight movies and ended up doing a fine job for Jessica Jones.

 

[KevTravels]

is there enough time now for Finn to be able to train and get slightly better at performing the action required for the role?

You'd think Marvel would have cast him months in advance of the show in pre-production to give him enough time to train properly for the role. Film started filming in April and he was cast end of January. 2 months of training wasn't nowhere near enough.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Thank the Maker!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't think training matters much as practice time for the specific stunts, but we'll see. Defenders will be the test, no?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If you put him in a mask, you drastic reduce the amount of things he need to do.