Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 4

[Web-Head]

Finn's a likable presence. The writing is letting him down and it's a big problem that I have no idea what the character really wants, but he's someone I enjoy watching.

I think this sums it up really well.

 

[Dasher10]

I agree with all of this but will also add get better writers. Some dialog in many scenes were cringe worthy and the way some characters behaved were just head scratchers. Over all the show is ok entertainment but boy is the choreography which should be the main attraction was pedestrian and down right amateurish sometimes.

I agree. I think that Marvel should fire the writers and hire Rhianna Pratchett and some of the writers on Penny Dreadful to tell a good pulp adventure story.

Secondly, hire some directors who worked on shows with entertaining hand to hand combat. Namely directors who worked on Game of Thrones, Spartacus and Into the Badlands. I'd also look at Aaron Shoenke and Michael Jai White to direct. Also, give Iron Fist a costume so Finn Jones can use a stunt double.

We also need a showrunner who can come up with less contrived plots and character development. RZA directed Episode 6 so he's already involved. I think that he'd be a great fit.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

As it stands with me, this show is tied with Jessica Jones for me. Jone's had the issue of peaking at six episodes then petering out. This has the issues of a lackluster beginning but a solid ending. The fight choreography is definitely not where it should be for a show about Iron Fist, but it's still enjoyable and better than what you'll find on Arrow or Agents of Shield.

Also can someone please explain to me what was so "cringe-worthy" about Danny showing Colleen a thing or two? They clearly have different martial arts backgrounds and styles so I don't see what the actual issue was with that scene.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Also can someone please explain to me what was so "cringe-worthy" about Danny showing Colleen a thing or two?

It didn't bother me but a Caucasian teaching a Minority anything is going to be criticized in social media era

 

[writer0327]

I think Rand's character arc was to discover himself, whether he was merely a "weapon", cold and unfeeling, or something more. At least that's what I took from it.

 

[marcvader]

Also can someone please explain to me what was so "cringe-worthy" about Danny showing Colleen a thing or two? They clearly have different martial arts backgrounds and styles so I don't see what the actual issue was with that scene.

I think it may be from the standpoint of how unconvincing Finn is in his fighting skills compared to the actress playing Colleen.

 

[TheVileOne]

How likely or unlikely is it the show gets a second season at this point?

 

[Dasher10]

How likely or unlikely is it the show gets a second season at this point?

Unlikely but I'm hopeful. I feel like we may not get confirmation until after Defenders since Season 1 was Marvel's Batman v Superman.

Considering that the DCEU fell apart after Suicide Squad, the final arc of AOS and GOTG2 both need to knock it out of the park.

 

[legendkillin]

Unlikely but I'm hopeful. I feel like we may not get confirmation until after Defenders since Season 1 was Marvel's Batman v Superman.

Considering that the DCEU fell apart after Suicide Squad, the final arc of AOS and GOTG2 both need to knock it out of the park.

Huh?
Are you suggesting that the MCU can fall apart because of IF and if AoS has a bad end? The shows have little to no impact on the movies. People care way more about the movies than they do the shows. GOTG2 has nothing to do with the tv side either.

DCEU sort of tie their movies into the shows by killing off characters that plan to appear in both. That is a problem they have.

 

[Pokkle]

How likely or unlikely is it the show gets a second season at this point?

Likely, the show will have enough viewers thanks to being a Marvel's Netflix show.

Marco Polo season 1 had bad review and wasn't cheap and still got renewed, not the season 3 though.

 

[legendkillin]

How likely or unlikely is it the show gets a second season at this point?

I am thinking Heroes for Hire for season 2. Also I don't believe we will know until Punisher. If Punisher is great they will order a 2nd season quick. That will likely take the IF spot.

 

[Dasher10]

I am thinking Heroes for Hire for season 2. Also I don't believe we will know until Punisher. If Punisher is great they will order a 2nd season quick. That will likely take the IF spot.

I don't think that'll happen because of Punisher. I think that there's room for both.

But heroes for hire is the right direction to go in if Season 2 doesn't happen since Cheo Hodari-Coker knows how to write consistent characters. Scott Buck just writes constantly changing tabula rasas who have no motivations other than doing things to move the plot forward.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Unlikely but I'm hopeful. I feel like we may not get confirmation until after Defenders since Season 1 was Marvel's Batman v Superman.

Considering that the DCEU fell apart after Suicide Squad, the final arc of AOS and GOTG2 both need to knock it out of the park.

Based on what exactly? Agents of Shield has been trash since day one and that show got multiple seasons. I think Marvel/Netflix will review what worked and what didn't and retool from there. The cast is fine, the showrunner is not. Get someone new in who better understands the material and things will be fine.

I think it may be from the standpoint of how unconvincing Finn is in his fighting skills compared to the actress playing Colleen.

This I can understand, but in the context of the story, I thought the scene worked. They really should have taken more time with Jones, but they wanted this thing out the door.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

How likely or unlikely is it the show gets a second season at this point?

I'm optimistic. The show wasn't bad, just because a handful of critics and a couple of teenagers easily bored by not enough punching perceived it as such.
of the 3 seasons of Netflix MCU it came in third, IMO. And if Daredevil deserves a third and a complete failure of a show like Luke Cage deserves a second season, then I see no reason why IF which was way better shouldn't deserve another season.

 

[Dasher10]

I'm optimistic. The show wasn't bad, just because a handful of critics and a couple of teenagers easily bored by not enough punching perceived it as such.
of the 3 seasons of Netflix MCU it came in third, IMO. And if Daredevil deserves a third and a complete failure of a show like Luke Cage deserves a second season, then I see no reason why IF which was way better shouldn't deserve another season.

You seriously thought that Iron Fist was better than Like Cage and Daredevil?

I thought the fight scenes were adequately done and there were enough of them that I was sated. The show needed stronger season-long arcs for each character to keep me invested. Not one and done appearances from major villains while elevating a bit player like Bakuto to major antagonist status and then doing nothing interesting with him. and the Meachum's were never written consistently so I never got to know who they were as people.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

You seriously thought that Iron Fist was better than Like Cage and Daredevil?

I thought the fight scenes were adequately done and there were enough of them that I was sated. The show needed stronger season-long arcs for each character to keep me invested. Not one and done appearances from major villains while elevating a bit player like Bakuto to major antagonist status and then doing nothing interesting with him. and the Meachum's were never written consistently so I never got to know who they were as people.

than Luke Cage and DD S2 to be precise

 

[Dasher10]

than Luke Cage and DD S2 to be precise

Both were far better than Iron Fist.

Daredevil Season 1 worked perfectly. Zero complaints.

Jessica Jones ran out of steam after Episode 10 but stuck the landing in the finale.

Daredevil Season 2 needed to introduce Nobu a bit sooner since it suffered from not giving the season a central antagonist early on.

Luke Cage never should have killed off Cottenmouth. That was a mistake since he was the second best thing about that series after the music. Luke Cage was excellent and I'll even defend Diamondback.

We're talking about four great seasons of TV and then a show that had didn't have a serious grasp on who it's characters were. Considering that Lord of the Rings, Banshee and Game of Thrones all got more mileage out of the same actors, there was a serious problem with the showrunner who couldn't get his writers to get his characters to be consistent. And the tone also needed to be more fantastic. It needed more wirework.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

We're talking about four great seasons of TV and then a show that had didn't have a serious grasp on who it's characters were. Considering that Lord of the Rings, Banshee and Game of Thrones all got more mileage out of the same actors, there was a serious problem with the showrunner who couldn't get his writers to get his characters to be consistent. And the tone also needed to be more fantastic. It needed more wirework.

disagreed with most of it

 

[TheVileOne]

But Luke Cage got good reviews and apparently got good viewership on Netflix, and on top of that it can be promoted as socially relevant right now. That matters to a lot of people.

Now, not sure what type of numbers Iron Fist had. Keep in mind Netflix viewership is in general kept under lock and key. We never really know the real accurate numbers.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

But Luke Cage got good reviews

Which still boggles my mind to this ****ing day. Colter was terrible, the characterization wasn't even consistent with what we saw on Jessica Jones and its heavy handed handling of its core themes almost came off as pandering. The show's action sequences and fight scenes were also incredibly lackluster for show about a guy who's bulletproof.

Spoiler

The Enter the Dragon/Hand tournament sequence

was better than anything in Luke Cage.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I was underwhelmed by Cage but in many aspects it was what I feel a Cage series should have been. A modern Blaxploitation gloss. Iron Fist should have been a Kung Fu movie throw back. Golden Harvest, Shaw Bros., Bruce Lee etc. and it just wasn't anything like that.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Which still boggles my mind to this ****ing day. Colter was terrible, the characterization wasn't even consistent with what we saw on Jessica Jones and its heavy handed handling of its core themes almost came off as pandering. The show's action sequences and fight scenes were also incredibly lackluster for show about a guy who's bulletproof.

Spoiler

The Enter the Dragon/Hand tournament sequence

was better than anything in Luke Cage.

That was a high point. Would that the series as a whole had that tone, vibe and execution.

 

[UnknownCriminal]

Daredevil S1&S2 are probably my favorite superhero comic adaptation ever made. I've no complaints about it other than maybe the kinda rushed killing of Elektra.

Jessica Jones was solid all the way through, although the side plots weighted it down a bit.

Luke Cage was pretty damn good until the last few episodes, where it just fell apart.

Iron Fist is an aimless, meandering and ultimately pointless mess of ideas right off the bat and it just gets worse as it goes. It has a lot of problems in both the conceptual and executional level. It's not even a show about Iron Fist. It's more about the Meachums than Danny Rand. After a while, Danny starts to feel like a side character in his own show. His portrayal is completely off for a hero protagonist and he gets almost no development whatsoever. He's uncharismatic, whiny, ineffective, kinda dumb, insecure and unsure of what his goals are, and by the end of it he's still just as insecure, ineffective, whiny and unsure of his goals as he was at the beginning. As a result, the audience is also unsure of what to think about him. He starts a cypher and he ends a cypher. He starts a zero and never actually becomes a hero. Also, he doesn't seem to know the first thing about the thing he actually spent 15 years training to do and that doesn't make any sense. It's kinda hard to root for the guy as a hero when he fails miserably at everything he does due to his own recklessness, insecurity and stupidity. I have to side with Davos here when he said Danny's the worst Iron Fist ever. He truly is. I don't know why at one moment he can take on a room full of trained fighters with very little effort and in the next he gets his ass handed to him by a single common thug. In the final episode, he takes Harold down with a single kick, but instead of subduing him while he has the upper hand or simply kicking the gun away, he goes off running to hide in a corner. Like a complete moron. Also, Finn Jones' performance really doesn't help make any of it any better. His performance is unconvincing both as an actor and as a fighter and he doesn't seem comfortable in the role. There is an interesting story and ideas buried underneath all the drivel and sometimes you can see it through the cracks, but for some reason the showrunners decided not to focus on any of it. I can't help but agree with all the reviewers who said the show feels like an entire season of filler, never getting to the actual interesting part of the story. The dialogue is poorly written, the plot is unfocused and inconsistent, the characters that matter are poorly developed and lack clear motivations. The show seems to be constantly at odds with itself. It doesn't know what story to tell and where to focus on. It simply lacks a clear vision. Just like the titular character, actually. The opening sequence is actually perfect for the show, since it's bland, derivative, lacks character and personality and says nothing about the show or the characters other than the fact that it involves some Kung Fu. In the end, it sums up the show perfectly. The lack of a colorful suit and a fight with a dragon are actually the least of the show's problems and that stuff doesn't even matter all that much when weighted against all the other more important, basic stuff they did wrong. This was probably the Marvel Netflix show that I was the most excited about and I love the character with a passion. It was a huge disappointment. They botched it. Completely. I won't say it's as bad as it was said in some of the reviews, but it certainly deserved every single bad review it got.

Spoiler

The Enter the Dragon/Hand tournament sequence

was better than anything in Luke Cage.

That was a high point. Would that the series as a whole had that tone, vibe and execution.

Really? That's when the show really jumped the shark for me. When I realized what they were doing there with the Game of Death reference I thought it was a brilliant idea. I even started wishing they had saved that idea for the finale. But then I actually watched it...

Spoiler

Seriously, what the hell was that second fight with the Bride of Nine Spiders? That was just terrible. So poorly executed. And then all the buildup and practically the whole episode is rendered completely pointless by its conclusion. It was the first big moment for Danny in the show and it went out like a wet fart. It meant nothing. He was fighting two other Immortal Weapons and that fact doesn't even get a mention. It was just pointless filler, fluff and gratuitous fan service. That's probably one of my least favorite episodes in the show. But hey, at least the karaoke scene was pretty good and I kinda liked how they used Lei Kung in the episode (at least I'm assuming that was him).

Well, to each his own, I guess.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Daredevil S1&S2 are probably my favorite superhero comic adaptation ever made. I've no complaints about it other than maybe the kinda rushed killing of Elektra.

Jessica Jones was solid all the way through, although the side plots about the neighbors and her junkie sidekick were unnecessary filler that weighted it down a bit.

Luke Cage was pretty damn good until the last few episodes, where it just fell apart.

Iron Fist is an aimless, meandering and ultimately pointless mess of ideas right off the bat and it just gets worse as it goes. It has a lot of problems in both the conceptual and executional level. It's not even a show about Iron Fist. It's more about the Meachums than Danny Rand. After a while, Danny starts to feel like a side character in his own show. His portrayal is completely off for a hero protagonist and he gets almost no development whatsoever. He's uncharismatic, whiny, ineffective, kinda dumb, insecure and unsure of what his goals are, and by the end of it he's still just as insecure, ineffective, whiny and unsure of his goals as he was at the beginning. As result, the audience is also unsure of what to think about him. He starts a cypher and he ends a cypher. He starts a zero and never actually becomes a hero. Also, he doesn't seem to know the first thing about the thing he actually spend 15 years training to do and that doesn't make any sense. It's kinda hard to root for the guy as a hero when he fails miserably at everything he does due to his own recklessness, insecurity and stupidity. I have to side with Davos here when he said Danny's the worst Iron Fist ever. He truly is. I don't know why at one moment he can take on a full room of trained fighters with very little effort and in the next he gets his ass handed to him by a single common thug. In the final episode, he takes Harold down with a single kick, but instead of subduing him while he has the upper hand or simply kicking the gun away, he goes off running to hide in a corner. Like a complete moron (and also a coward). Also, Finn Jones' performance really doesn't help make any of it any better. His performance is unconvincing both as an actor and as a fighter and he doesn't seem comfortable in the role. There is an interesting story and ideas buried underneath all the drivel and sometimes you can see it through the cracks, but for some reason the showrunners decided not to focus on any of it. I can't help but agree with all the reviewers who said the show feels like an entire season of filler without never getting to the actual interesting part of the story. The dialogue is poorly written, the plot is unfocused and inconsistent, the characters that matter are poorly developed and lack clear motivations. The show seems to be constantly at odds with itself. It doesn't know what story to tell and where to focus on. It simply lacks a clear vision. Just like like the titular character, actually. The opening sequence is actually perfect for the show, since it's bland, derivative, lacks character and personality and says nothing about the show or the characters other than the fact that it involves some Kung Fu. In the end, it sums up the show perfectly. The lack of a colorful suit and a fight with a dragon are actually the least of the show's problems and that stuff doesn't even matter all that much when weighted against all the other more important, basic stuff they did wrong. This was probably the Marvel Netflix show that I was the most excited about and I love the character with a passion. It was a huge disappointment. They botched it. Completely. I won't say it's as bad as it was said in some of the reviews, but it certainly deserved every single bad review it got.





Really? That's when the show really jumped the shark for me. When I realized what they were doing there with the Game of Death reference I thought it was a brilliant idea. I even started wishing they had saved that idea for the finale. But then I actually watched it...

Spoiler

Seriously, what the hell was that second fight with the Bride of Nine Spiders? That was just terrible. So poorly executed. And then all the buildup and practically the whole episode is rendered completely pointless by its conclusion. It was the first big moment for Danny in the show and it went out like a wet fart. It meant nothing. He was fighting two other Immortal Weapons and that fact doesn't even get a mention. It was just pointless filler, fluff and gratuitous fan service. That's probably one of my least favorite episodes in the show. But hey, at least the karaoke scene was pretty good and I kinda liked how they used Lei Kung in the episode (at least I'm assuming that was him).

Well, to each his own, I guess.

The show jumped the shark for you when it finally decided to embrace the material's Kung Fu movie roots and be an Iron Fist show? Really?

 

[UnknownCriminal]

The show jumped the shark for you when it finally decided to embrace the material's Kung Fu movie roots and be an Iron Fist show? Really?

No, it jumped the shark for me when it failed miserably at doing so. Like I said there, I loved the idea of it precisely because it embraced the material's Kung Fu movie roots. I loved it so much that at first I wished it had been saved for the finale. I just hated how poorly executed it was and how little it ultimately meant for the character and the story. I hated that it was used as meaningless action filler and fan service. Maybe "jumped the shark" was a poor expression to use. It was just the moment that really made me realize the show wasn't going to get any better even when it tried.