First Avenger Is anyone afraid that TFA:CA is going to end up being deceptively mediocre in the end

[KalMart]

Interesting....thanks. I always figured he was super-human. So in an all-out mano-e-mano fight against, say, Wolverine or Spiderman, he'd probably lose...but he uses better intellect/strategy and what not to his advantage....kinda' like Batman,?

And in terms of originally being a really scrawny guy...I guess Evans will have to lose and gain some serious weight/muscle for the role if they're going to portray that, right?

 

[S.A.A.D.]

Rage,I just personally think that he's on the super human side.

 

[Triad]

Other aspects have been thrown around the boards and I'm not sure if they are authentic traits of Cap's or not: I believe that he has a extremely high pain tolerance and supposedly his muscles do not fatigue as easily as a mere average human athlete. Is this true?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

None of Johnstons past work has impressed me and I don't like that frat boy as Cap, so my expectations are low.

 

[Triad]

MessiahDecoy123, you really need to check out October Sky if you haven't already.
One of Johnstons' best!
My only fear in his directing is that I hope he goes light with the CGI as opposed to his recent film, The Wolfman where he went hog-wild with it...even laughingly unnecessarily so! (C'mon, a CGI trained bear? WTF?!) In my opinion, actual physical effects are the best and most realistic looking. I absolutely hate when a mediocre CGI effect removes you from the immersed feeling of a film's experience. It can suspend believability. If Johnston's past comments are any indication though, then that is the last thing that he would want to happen with his foray into the "superhero" genre.

 

[Kenedajade]

Johnston better read som Cap A comics, the super soldier syrum and program made him a Meta-Human, not an Olympic athlete. He has super strength, speed, agility, intellegence, stamina. Maybe he didn't watch Mr. Roth's character in the Incredible Hulk, and he was nowhere near Cap's level.

 

[KalMart]

Wait...so he IS superhuman?

 

[Surfer]

Kalmart, in my opinion there is a fine line between perfect human and the beginnings of super human. To me Captain America is "Perfect Human". Now do not confuse Olympic Athletes with Perfect Human, as Olympic Athletes may be the best we have seen yet, but records are always being broken. Also, this is a comic book, which allows you to believe there is a lot more growth in what humans can possibly do physically and mentally. So, with that in mind I would describe Perfect Human like this. Have you ever heard anyone say humans on average only use 10% of their brains. So, maybe an average genius uses like 30% of their brain and maybe Einstein was able to use like 50% of his brain. Well a perfect human would be able to use 100% of his brain. Now apply that kind of mentality to not only his brain but his physical attributes. He can run rings around even the quickest of Olympic Athletes and still not be above human potential. At least this is how I see it.

Surfer

 

[captainrogers]

From what's been demonstrated in the comics, Caps strength level would be at or above the half ton mark and He's clocked in a mile in a little over a minute, which is insane to imagine (because at my fastest, i've run a mile and a half in just under 8:40.) but I guess in the world of marvel, where guys can fling multi-ton things around, where cap is concerned, he just doesn't quite hit the tic marks that qualify someone as "Super human".
And as was stated before, we really don't know where the upper limit of human physical potential is at. I just assume caps many incredible feats are him performing at those levels. So comparitively speaking, no, he isn't superhuman. Be he ain't normal either.

 

[Rage]

Johnston better read som Cap A comics, the super soldier syrum and program made him a Meta-Human, not an Olympic athlete. He has super strength, speed, agility, intellegence, stamina. Maybe he didn't watch Mr. Roth's character in the Incredible Hulk, and he was nowhere near Cap's level.

That was a bastardized version of the formula that made him go insane with power and physically started to transform him. It didn't have the vitarays to stabilize the syrum. The same thing happened to the 50s cap. He was much more powerful than Steve Rogers... but his mind started going haywire!

 

[KalMart]

Kalmart, in my opinion there is a fine line between perfect human and the beginnings of super human. To me Captain America is "Perfect Human". Now do not confuse Olympic Athletes with Perfect Human, as Olympic Athletes may be the best we have seen yet, but records are always being broken. Also, this is a comic book, which allows you to believe there is a lot more growth in what humans can possibly do physically and mentally. So, with that in mind I would describe Perfect Human like this. Have you ever heard anyone say humans on average only use 10% of their brains. So, maybe an average genius uses like 30% of their brain and maybe Einstein was able to use like 50% of his brain. Well a perfect human would be able to use 100% of his brain. Now apply that kind of mentality to not only his brain but his physical attributes. He can run rings around even the quickest of Olympic Athletes and still not be above human potential. At least this is how I see it.

Surfer

That's a good explanation. Maybe 'meta-human' is a better term, or at least a possibility. in addition to his physical abilities in motion....does he also heal quicker than any human...or are there any other physiological functions that are beyond what we consider humans to be capable of? I get it that it's a comic, so it stretches the imagination of just what our bodies are indeed capable of. I guess a part of making the distinction is to keep him relatable, and still on the mortal side like us....probably tied into the whole patriotic angle of his character et al.

At the same time, he's not psychic or telekinetic, is he?

 

[Rage]

He has a photographic memory (because all his neural pathways are perfect) and he has almost photographic reflexes (learning something from just observing it being done) He also doesn't forget things very easily either.

He doesn't build up lactic acid as quickly and that allows him to do whatever activitiy he is engaged in for extended amounts of time. His muscle tissues don't break down as quickly aswell....

If Batman and Cap fought each other without the aid of their gadgets... I think Cap would mop the floor with him because he is the perfect human while Batman is an Olympic class athlete... there is a big difference IMO

 

[KalMart]

He has a photographic memory (because all his neural pathways are perfect) and he has almost photographic reflexes (learning something from just observing it being done) He also doesn't forget things very easily either.

He doesn't build up lactic acid as quickly and that allows him to do whatever activitiy he is engaged in for extended amounts of time. His muscle tissues don't break down as quickly aswell....

If Batman and Cap fought each other without the aid of their gadgets... I think Cap would mop the floor with him because he is the perfect human while Batman is an Olympic class athlete... there is a big difference IMO

Cap vs. Wolverine?

 

[captainrogers]

Cap vs. Wolverine?

......and the can has been opened.......i'll just state my opinion on this: (goes ditto for batman) cap would swing the situation or place Logan into a setting or backround that would swing the fight to his favor. Wolvie has mad fighting skills, but he is of the mindset of walking into a bullet than dodging it to get at his target. Cap now would exploit what could be called carelessness or single mindedness to defeat him. I'm sure cap has strategized a plan for taking on wolvie after numerous confrontations over the years. trying not to be biased on this. but i'd give it to cap. (many years of going up against foes like masterman hand to hand help think about how masterful a fighter Cap is)
again. my opinion of how things would go down. of course if you ask me how cap would take hulk down, id simply state that he would hold him off or distract long enough or to have abigger gun like thor take him on.
Among the population of the Marvel U Cap is known as the guy who "never" loses and always finds a way to win. (there was a humorous bit in a book where galactus was attacking and some old guys said something like "get cap, he'll take him down.)

 

[KalMart]

......and the can has been opened.......i'll just state my opinion on this: (goes ditto for batman) cap would swing the situation or place Logan into a setting or backround that would swing the fight to his favor. Wolvie has mad fighting skills, but he is of the mindset of walking into a bullet than dodging it to get at his target. Cap now would exploit what could be called carelessness or single mindedness to defeat him. I'm sure cap has strategized a plan for taking on wolvie after numerous confrontations over the years. trying not to be biased on this. but i'd give it to cap. (many years of going up against foes like masterman hand to hand help think about how masterful a fighter Cap is)
again. my opinion of how things would go down. of course if you ask me how cap would take hulk down, id simply state that he would hold him off or distract long enough or to have abigger gun like thor take him on.
Among the population of the Marvel U Cap is known as the guy who "never" loses and always finds a way to win. (there was a humorous bit in a book where galactus was attacking and some old guys said something like "get cap, he'll take him down.)

But in a 'steel cage', you'd have to give the edge to Woverine, no?

 

[FaT_tONle]

Haven't read the thread yet, but the title of this thread alone sums up my feelings about this film up. Forget the comic book genre, the title of this property alone, the iconic status the character holds and symbolizes, this film should be nothing short of a decade defining movie. Up there with Star Wars, Raiders, and T2. If nobody is talking about this film in 15 years, like how nobody talks about the Rocketeer, or JP3 once that time comes, it's a complete fail for me. I don't want to hear, "Oh it was better than Elecktra or FF so stop complaining, could have been worse." I get that this post is all rhetoric, but I am not going to lower my standards to just another half decent comic book movie. Based on the talent involved, ima lean towards same old...

 

[KalMart]

Haven't read the thread yet, but the title of this thread alone sums up my feelings about this film up. Forget the comic book genre, the title of this property alone, the iconic status the character holds and symbolizes, this film should be nothing short of a decade defining movie. Up there with Star Wars, Raiders, and T2.

I seriously doubt that any comic movie will ever reach that status, regardless who it's based on (especially internationally, when it comes to CA). If anyone has a chance at that, it's Batman.

 

[captainrogers]

But in a 'steel cage', you'd have to give the edge to Woverine, no?

are we going full on hand to hand? Or shield an claws allowed? Caps best bet would be to dodge/use wolvie's claws to get out of said cage. It's tricky. If they HAD to remain in said cage, Cap would have to knock Wolvie out quickly. Blunt force trauma with indestructable shield methinks. It would be very dangerous/stupid for cap to remain in an enclosed area with Logan(unless part of some creative strategy). But short answer: I guess yeah, wolvie in steel cage would have an edge.(cap has the better 'applied' fighting skills, where as wolvie has those VERY dangerous claws in an enclosed space)

 

[KalMart]

are we going full on hand to hand? Or shield an claws allowed? Caps best bet would be to dodge/use wolvie's claws to get out of said cage. It's tricky. If they HAD to remain in said cage, Cap would have to knock Wolvie out quickly. Blunt force trauma with indestructable shield methinks. It would be very dangerous/stupid for cap to remain in an enclosed area with Logan(unless part of some creative strategy). But short answer: I guess yeah, wolvie in steel cage would have an edge.(cap has the better 'applied' fighting skills, where as wolvie has those VERY dangerous claws in an enclosed space)

No claws or shield. I would think that Wolverine's skeleton and strength/healing factor would give him the edge. Then again, Cap might how to hit the right nerve cluster and paralyze him enough to win the fight 'technically'.

God, this is so geeky! t:

 

[captainrogers]

I like vs threads. If we keep talking about this tho, we should probably move this convo topic there. (if there is one available)

 

[captainrogers]

No claws or shield. I would think that Wolverine's skeleton and strength/healing factor would give him the edge. Then again, Cap might how to hit the right nerve cluster and paralyze him enough to win the fight 'technically'.

God, this is so geeky! t:

I loves to geek out.

 

[ross2287]

All of Johnston's films that I've seen (Jumanji, Jurassic Park III, The Wolfman) are horribly mediocre. While the first two there are fun, they're awfully average. And The Wolfman tried too hard to be too many different movies, in my opinion.

Now The Rocketeer, on the other hand, is a great fun film that is also above average in many regards. Hell, if he made Cap like The Rocketeer, I'd have no complaints.

That said, seeing Chris Evans in Scott Pilgrim vs the World has gotten me really excited for his perfomance as Cap.

 

[KalMart]

All of Johnston's films that I've seen (Jumanji, Jurassic Park III, The Wolfman) are horribly mediocre. While the first two there are fun, they're awfully average. And The Wolfman tried too hard to be too many different movies, in my opinion.

Now The Rocketeer, on the other hand, is a great fun film that is also above average in many regards. Hell, if he made Cap like The Rocketeer, I'd have no complaints.

That said, seeing Chris Evans in Scott Pilgrim vs the World has gotten me really excited for his perfomance as Cap.

Rocketeer coudl have been considerably better, though. All the ingredients were there...but (aside from eth editing, which had some major problems at certain moments), there was just some extra level of panache missing with it. I remember at the time the movie came out, I knew who he was and where he came from (ILM, etc), and he came off as 'Spielberg Lite'. As time has gone by, he seems more and more 'Spielberg Zero', or something thereof. Maybe a good visualizer, but in terms of hitting that 'A' level with the movie/excitement beyond the visual effects et al....pacing, dynamics, etc....just not quite there. He certainly has some very nice moments in his movies...but they need to be strung together better.

Now...there are a lot of other filmmakers who are considerably worse that are doing big-effects/action stuff out there...so he's certainly not the worst you could do. But you never know, this may end up being the best film he's done, and it might be the one that really hits the right chords.

 

[JAK®]

MessiahDecoy123, you really need to check out October Sky if you haven't already.
One of Johnstons' best!
My only fear in his directing is that I hope he goes light with the CGI as opposed to his recent film, The Wolfman where he went hog-wild with it...even laughingly unnecessarily so! (C'mon, a CGI trained bear? WTF?!) In my opinion, actual physical effects are the best and most realistic looking. I absolutely hate when a mediocre CGI effect removes you from the immersed feeling of a film's experience. It can suspend believability. If Johnston's past comments are any indication though, then that is the last thing that he would want to happen with his foray into the "superhero" genre.

Well the circumstances of Wolfman's production weren't great for spending time on practical effects. Johnston was brought on after the original director left so he needed things to be done quick and cheaply, which means CGI bears instead of trained ones. I don't think tons of CGI was what he wanted to do.

 

[cryptic name]

All of Johnston's films that I've seen (Jumanji, Jurassic Park III, The Wolfman) are horribly mediocre. While the first two there are fun, they're awfully average. And The Wolfman tried too hard to be too many different movies, in my opinion.

Now The Rocketeer, on the other hand, is a great fun film that is also above average in many regards. Hell, if he made Cap like The Rocketeer, I'd have no complaints.

That said, seeing Chris Evans in Scott Pilgrim vs the World has gotten me really excited for his perfomance as Cap.

I think if you look at The Rocketeer and October Sky (Johnston's best), he seems perfect for cap. Add in Hugo Weaving who just pisses excellence, and Evans who I'm warming toward almost daily, along with the fact that Marvel has yet to let me down with their self produced films, and I think this movie could be really special.