Comics Is anyone else just not a big fan of ASM right now?

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I haven't read # 692 or 693 yet so I have no opinion on the "Alpha" character. However, I can see what you mean about how the book is different than it's been in the past. I'm kind of in the middle right now. Slott's run started out great but I'd say the last 6 to 8 months he's kind of been hit and miss with me. There are story arcs that I'll be like, "Ok, now this is what I'm talking about" Then, like Ends of the Earth, I'm left going, "What the heck was he thinking with this?" Sometimes he writes solid dialogue and then he'll write some of the most cheesy dialogue. My biggest example was the way he had been writing Mysterio through the Sinister Six arc and The Ends of the Earth arc. A lot of that characters dialogue was cringe worthy.

With that being said I just think there comes a time with a long time character where it's just never going to be your cup of tea ever again. What may have been "your Spider-Man" will never be again and now it's going to be someone elses Spider-Man.

It's the same discussion I've had with some people at the comic shop recently about the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. The cartoon is NOT designed for the mature viewer...it's not for adults. The cartoon is designed for little children 5 to 10 years old depending on their maturity levels.

Sometimes you will eventually outgrow certain things despite how hard you don't want that. Times change. I truly believe I'm starting to get to that point with the current Amazing Spider-Man comic. I'll stick with it for a little bit but if I keep getting hit and miss I will have to do what I have to do. I've found myself getting into much different genres in comics and have been backing a lot of Kickstarter campaigns for indie creators. It's nothing against Dan Slott or Ramos but they are doing something that's probably not going to be aimed toward a 30 year old man. Marvel has a 50 year old character to try and keep fresh and keep publishing to a new generation of Spider-Man fan and sometimes in the process you are going to leave the older generation behind. I don't think that's a good idea...you want to make EVERYONE happy but that's the way it goes sometimes.

On the one hand, you really have a good point. The character does have to evolve to attract new generations and I understand that. That could be a part of it. However, I still enjoy the spin-off books Scarlet Spider and Venom, so I don't know what that says. I think the writing in the core Spidey book has been dumbed down for a younger audience the last couple years, especially in the dialogue department and that's probably one of the bigger turn-offs now (Mysterio talking about being obsessed with Angry Birds... the same Mysterio who blew off his head in a Daredevil story a few years ago and came back with it still half gone?).

I think there's ways to go about attracting new audiences while retaining the old ones. I don't think you have to alienate older fans. And I see that lack of enthusiasm for the book nowadays reflected in the slowed-down traffic that this board and other Spidey forums on the net have been afflicted with in the last few years. Instead of the boards getting an influx of newer posters excited for the webslinger, it just seems a lot less people are talking about Spidey period. So I'm not sure who Slott's target audience is.

But like TMOB reminded me "different strokes." And thanks to everyone for being respectful of my opinion, even when disagreeing. I came out pretty strong about it, so I was sure I was going to get raked over the coals for that one.

 

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

I don't know how often people check the MJ appreciation thread around here, but I posted this over there & since it's technically ASM comic related, thought I'd put the post over here as well in case no one's seen this yet in regards to Peter/MJ:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24297405&postcount=638

 

[runawayboulder]

I had noticed that too. I think whatever goes down in #700 plants the seeds for Pete and MJ to get back together and perhaps OMD being undone. Slott said in interviews that his last words and answer for everything before "going underground" is "keep reading". I take that as no matter what's thrown at us, when it's all said and done it may be worth it.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I had noticed that too. I think whatever goes down in #700 plants the seeds for Pete and MJ to get back together and perhaps OMD being undone. Slott said in interviews that his last words and answer for everything before "going underground" is "keep reading". I take that as no matter what's thrown at us, when it's all said and done it may be worth it.

I've had the same theory when it comes to Peter and MJ. A lot of the speculation of 700 has been sort of doom and gloom when it comes to Peter but I think maybe Slott is going to go the other way with it. Based on what I feel have been seeds being planted since the beginning of Big Time between MJ and Peter it could be possible. Especially in recent issues where MJ has been giving some pretty obvious "big time" pep talks.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. However, I just hope whatever it is it's not super cheesy like Ends of the Earth was.

 

[CConn]

I have to say, I also like how Slott has handled the Peter and MJ thing.

It's almost as if he's already trying to disregard OMD as much as humanly possible.

 

[runawayboulder]

And to think everyone was up in arms about the scene when he showed up at her place looking for a place to stay. A lot of folks felt slapped right in the face.

 

[Wadaltmon]

I just read issue 692, and I dunno... it just kinda felt empty. Like, they made it the 50th anniversary issue, and were focused so much on the creation of Alpha that Slott didn't really focus on what he was writing moment to moment, just the entire idea. It just really felt like he didn't spend too much time on the story.
Just my opinion.

 

[Thor The Mighty]

I haven't read # 692 or 693 yet so I have no opinion on the "Alpha" character. However, I can see what you mean about how the book is different than it's been in the past. I'm kind of in the middle right now. Slott's run started out great but I'd say the last 6 to 8 months he's kind of been hit and miss with me. There are story arcs that I'll be like, "Ok, now this is what I'm talking about" Then, like Ends of the Earth, I'm left going, "What the heck was he thinking with this?" Sometimes he writes solid dialogue and then he'll write some of the most cheesy dialogue. My biggest example was the way he had been writing Mysterio through the Sinister Six arc and The Ends of the Earth arc. A lot of that characters dialogue was cringe worthy.

With that being said I just think there comes a time with a long time character where it's just never going to be your cup of tea ever again. What may have been "your Spider-Man" will never be again and now it's going to be someone elses Spider-Man.

It's the same discussion I've had with some people at the comic shop recently about the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. The cartoon is NOT designed for the mature viewer...it's not for adults. The cartoon is designed for little children 5 to 10 years old depending on their maturity levels.

Sometimes you will eventually outgrow certain things despite how hard you don't want that. Times change. I truly believe I'm starting to get to that point with the current Amazing Spider-Man comic. I'll stick with it for a little bit but if I keep getting hit and miss I will have to do what I have to do. I've found myself getting into much different genres in comics and have been backing a lot of Kickstarter campaigns for indie creators. It's nothing against Dan Slott or Ramos but they are doing something that's probably not going to be aimed toward a 30 year old man. Marvel has a 50 year old character to try and keep fresh and keep publishing to a new generation of Spider-Man fan and sometimes in the process you are going to leave the older generation behind. I don't think that's a good idea...you want to make EVERYONE happy but that's the way it goes sometimes.

That's basically how I feel about the the title now. I have not really been into the title in a while and I'm thinking it's time to move on.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I'm not a fan of any current comic book titles right now to be honest. The quality has declined greatly over the last few years. Maybe it has something to do with Disney buying Marvel Comics?

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

I haven't read # 692 or 693 yet so I have no opinion on the "Alpha" character. However, I can see what you mean about how the book is different than it's been in the past. I'm kind of in the middle right now. Slott's run started out great but I'd say the last 6 to 8 months he's kind of been hit and miss with me. There are story arcs that I'll be like, "Ok, now this is what I'm talking about" Then, like Ends of the Earth, I'm left going, "What the heck was he thinking with this?" Sometimes he writes solid dialogue and then he'll write some of the most cheesy dialogue. My biggest example was the way he had been writing Mysterio through the Sinister Six arc and The Ends of the Earth arc. A lot of that characters dialogue was cringe worthy.

With that being said I just think there comes a time with a long time character where it's just never going to be your cup of tea ever again. What may have been "your Spider-Man" will never be again and now it's going to be someone elses Spider-Man.

It's the same discussion I've had with some people at the comic shop recently about the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. The cartoon is NOT designed for the mature viewer...it's not for adults. The cartoon is designed for little children 5 to 10 years old depending on their maturity levels.

Sometimes you will eventually outgrow certain things despite how hard you don't want that. Times change. I truly believe I'm starting to get to that point with the current Amazing Spider-Man comic. I'll stick with it for a little bit but if I keep getting hit and miss I will have to do what I have to do. I've found myself getting into much different genres in comics and have been backing a lot of Kickstarter campaigns for indie creators. It's nothing against Dan Slott or Ramos but they are doing something that's probably not going to be aimed toward a 30 year old man. Marvel has a 50 year old character to try and keep fresh and keep publishing to a new generation of Spider-Man fan and sometimes in the process you are going to leave the older generation behind. I don't think that's a good idea...you want to make EVERYONE happy but that's the way it goes sometimes.

man, you said it all right there...

I've been a fan of Spidey since ASM #18 way back when... thruout that time, I've gone with the ups and downs, but once Spidey and the title entered the 21st century, things gradually changed and HAS changed ever since... a change that has not been to my liking...

I haven't read the title in a couple of years and I have no desire to go back... I keep up on a cursory basis every so often, and I see no reason at this point to ever come back again from what I see in the way of the writing and ESPECIALLY the horrendous art that permeates the title... from a personal viewpoint, how can ANY sane person in their right mind honestly find the extremely HIDEOUS artwork of Humberto Ramos to be appealing in the least?!?... absolutely no sense of realistic anatomy... he sucked years ago when he did Spidey and I was glad he left and now he's back and he just has not improved in the least... he has to be one of the worst artists Spidey has EVER had... and I thought years ago Ross Andru was bad... Andru compared to Ramos is like an art god...

no matter how good the writing may be, it's got to be the art that helps to carry the book... and the art has been seriously lacking... for ME, if the art don't make it, then the book don't make it... appealing visuals should enhance and help the writing and thereby make the reading experience flow nicely and make it all easy on the eyes in every respect...

but you're right... when it comes down to it, what is one person's ambrosia usually turns out to be another person's poison... and that's what this book has grown to be for me in pretty much ever respect when it comes to the writing and the artwork... poison...

it'll never regain those days where I was into the title so much... but the key thing is the above very last line you stated that I highlighted... you should please EVERYONE, young fans as well as old...

but all the highlighted stuff you said above is spot on and true...

things change... but in this case, NOT for the better...

 

[CConn]

Anytime anyone starts talking like THIS, I stop listening.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

Ignorance must be truly be bliss...

 

[JewishHobbit]

And to think everyone was up in arms about the scene when he showed up at her place looking for a place to stay. A lot of folks felt slapped right in the face.

No, that was genuinely a crappy, rediculous scene... well-deserving to be ridiculed. Maybe he's handling the situation better now, maybe not, but it's not worth paying hundreds of dollars give or take to eventually get there. I'm with the others above me... Marvel's moved Spider-Man along to the next generation. "My" Spider-Man isn't around anymore and I've given up looking for him. I'm glad others can enjoy the title though.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I'm not a fan of any current comic book titles right now to be honest. The quality has declined greatly over the last few years. Maybe it has something to do with Disney buying Marvel Comics?

That sucks that it's jaded you on not reading ANY comics. I'm telling you what Marvel and DC have been doing is certainly not a reflection on the entire industry. Image is REALLY putting out a lot of amazing titles with some of the same creators who work for Marvel and DC...but letting them basically do whatever they want.

One title I have been suggesting to everyone and anyone who will listen is Saga by Brian K. Vaughn and Fiona Staples on the artwork. That book is FANTASTIC. It's going on issue # 7 and I'm sure if you hit the right comic shop or the right website you can get the previous six really cheap.

If people also need more suggestions I've got plenty of them.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

man, you said it all right there...

I've been a fan of Spidey since ASM #18 way back when...

Well, you certainly have me and TMOB beat by quite a few years! I go back to 120, and Bats around 150, I believe.

I haven't read the title in a couple of years and I have no desire to go back... I keep up on a cursory basis every so often, and I see no reason at this point to ever come back again from what I see in the way of the writing and ESPECIALLY the horrendous art that permeates the title... from a personal viewpoint, how can ANY sane person in their right mind honestly find the extremely HIDEOUS artwork of Humberto Ramos to be appealing in the least?!?... absolutely no sense of realistic anatomy... he sucked years ago when he did Spidey and I was glad he left and now he's back and he just has not improved in the least... he has to be one of the worst artists Spidey has EVER had...

Eye of the beholder, man. I actually dig Ramos' stuff! I'm a fan of stylized looks and prefer it over more bland styles. He is currently my favorite of the current Amazing art team.

and I thought years ago Ross Andru was bad... Andru compared to Ramos is like an art god...

Wow. Just wow. Better not let Bats hear you say that. Andru's Spidey was our Spidey growing up!

no matter how good the writing may be, it's got to be the art that helps to carry the book... and the art has been seriously lacking... for ME, if the art don't make it, then the book don't make it... appealing visuals should enhance and help the writing and thereby make the reading experience flow nicely and make it all easy on the eyes in every respect...

I will agree with you that the art is more important to me. I prefer good art with a mediocre story to a good story with bad art. That's why I look at eras in terms of artists, rather than writers.

But, I know you have soured on all things Spidey and I'll agree with you about The Amazing Spider-Man movie and that awful Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon that replaces the far superior Spectacular Spider-Man. But, you may want to give Amazing a try, because I think Dan Slott is doing a great job. He picks up old threads of continuity and weaves it into new plot threads that build up as the story progresses. It feels much more like it did in the 70's and 80's.

No, that was genuinely a crappy, rediculous scene... well-deserving to be ridiculed. Maybe he's handling the situation better now, maybe not, but it's not worth paying hundreds of dollars give or take to eventually get there. I'm with the others above me... Marvel's moved Spider-Man along to the next generation. "My" Spider-Man isn't around anymore and I've given up looking for him. I'm glad others can enjoy the title though.

Actually, in light of recent issues, runawayboulder might be right in that scene may have been a bit of foreshadowing in Slott's "keep reading" way. Believe me, the scene seemed like a slap in the face at the time to me as well, but maybe Dan does have something up his sleeve. MJ has been better written recently than she has been in a long time!

 

[JewishHobbit]

Actually, in light of recent issues, runawayboulder might be right in that scene may have been a bit of foreshadowing in Slott's "keep reading" way. Believe me, the scene seemed like a slap in the face at the time to me as well, but maybe Dan does have something up his sleeve. MJ has been better written recently than she has been in a long time!

Apparently "Keep reading" means buy 50 issues at $4+ a pop costing me about $200. Sorry but opening up with an "insuting" scene of an already touchy subject doesn't warrent that I "Keep reading." Now, if Dan ultimately undoes Mephisto's deal so that they remember the marriage... not just have them get back together but actually remember the proper history and continue their marriage... then I will likely jump back on the book and love every second of it. I just don't see that happening though because Dan's said for years that he prefers Peter single. I just don't see him being the on to undo it, if it ever is.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Apparently "Keep reading" means buy 50 issues at $4+ a pop costing me about $200. Sorry but opening up with an "insuting" scene of an already touchy subject doesn't warrent that I "Keep reading." Now, if Dan ultimately undoes Mephisto's deal so that they remember the marriage... not just have them get back together but actually remember the proper history and continue their marriage... then I will likely jump back on the book and love every second of it. I just don't see that happening though because Dan's said for years that he prefers Peter single. I just don't see him being the on to undo it, if it ever is.

True, I don't think the marriage will return, but I can see them resuming their relationship. I was just as mad as anyone when they wiped out the marriage, more even. Look at my avatar. I've been following Pete & MJ's relationship since the 70's, rooting for them. I, unlike others, found Pete's proposal in the 80's was natural (although they rushed the wedding-should have had an engagement period). So, having this demonic reboot did not sit well with me. But, in the end, I let go. We know Pete and MJ would not have made that deal and it was just Joe Q's mandate. I read the stories of Brand New Day and they were crappy. But, since Big Time started, I've been doing something I haven't really done since the McFarlane/Larsen era, enjoying Spider-Man.

And yes, comics have gotten expensive. They were 20 cents when I started.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I tried giving Big Time a shot. It was good but just not the Spidey I love. I think I lasted around 12 or 15 issues. I was really into the whole Hobgoblin story. Oh well.

 

[Themanofbat]

... and I thought years ago Ross Andru was bad...

Words fail me...

Ross Andru is arguably one of the BEST Spider-Man artists to ever draw the web-slinger... right up there with Romita Sr. & Keith Pollard...

You're entitled to your opinion... but when things like this are said... well...

Wow. Just wow. Better not let Bats hear you say that. Andru's Spidey was our Spidey growing up!

I heard him...

 

[Themanofbat]

Anytime anyone starts talking like THIS, I stop listening.

I wish I could do that... but I'm a sucker for punishment...

 

[Themanofbat]

I tried giving Big Time a shot. It was good but just not the Spidey I love. I think I lasted around 12 or 15 issues. I was really into the whole Hobgoblin story. Oh well.

In case you missed it... the HobGoblin that Phil beheaded was not Roderick, but Daniel Kingsley...

... and now Roderick, having heard of his brother's demise, is coming to NY to look for the new HobGoblin... starts after the Alpha storyline... or ASM #694.

 

[Web face]

Man, all this talk about Spider-Man being a different person really makes me feel like I started reading at the wrong time. This is still one of the best runs in the last decade right? Ya know what, forget your opinions, Im enjoying it

 

[CConn]

No, like I've said, it's definitely gotten better this past year or so.

Ramos does suck, though.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Man, all this talk about Spider-Man being a different person really makes me feel like I started reading at the wrong time. This is still one of the best runs in the last decade right? Ya know what, forget your opinions, Im enjoying it

Most of that "not the same Spider-Man" talk was of the One More Day/Brand New Day era, which had Pete make deals with the devil and rebooted to a slacker who was more immature than his original high school days. Since Dan Slott took over as the sole writer with Big Time, Spider-Man/Pete has been brought back to his former glory (though, still not married).

 

[JewishHobbit]

In case you missed it... the HobGoblin that Phil beheaded was not Roderick, but Daniel Kingsley...

... and now Roderick, having heard of his brother's demise, is coming to NY to look for the new HobGoblin... starts after the Alpha storyline... or ASM #694.

Cool. Sounds interesting.