Comics Is anyone else just not a big fan of ASM right now?

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

I think Ramos' artwork is fine...frankly I am surprised that people enjoyed the crappy artwork from some of the other artists on Amazing that cannot draw a realistic face and make body shapes look like total utter garbage.

and Ramos DOES?!?... my GOD, his art is just absolutely HIDEOUS...

what are some of the other artists that YOU find to be crappy?... myself, I find quite a few whose art is sorely lacking... but in Ramos' CASE, I find him to really be one of the WORST, if not THE worst, next to former artist Steve Skroce...

he was another whose art I thought to be really ugly...

 

[runawayboulder]

I hate when people use the realistic faces argument for all these artists under the sun. There's only 2 people that draw realistically, one is Alex Ross and the other is Tim Bradstreet.

 

[Themanofbat]

and Ramos DOES?!?... my GOD, his art is just absolutely HIDEOUS...

what are some of the other artists that YOU find to be crappy?... myself, I find quite a few whose art is sorely lacking... but in Ramos' CASE, I find him to really be one of the WORST, if not THE worst, next to former artist Steve Skroce...

he was another whose art I thought to be really ugly...

While I'm not a fan of Ramos, you think that Ross Andru sucks... thus taking you completely out of the running for criticizing any artists...

 

[Thwip!]

I hate when people use the realistic faces argument for all these artists under the sun. There's only 2 people that draw realistically, one is Alex Ross and the other is Tim Bradstreet.

I'ld add Rivera to that list a lot of the time

also since when does a cartoony style not qualify for comics? If it's not realistic then it must be bad?

Next there'll be people hating on Skottie Young

 

[runawayboulder]

Comics should be cartoony, after all they're comics. I just don't like hearing people say that x artist isn't realistic or y artist draws everyone with the same face. It's complaining for the sake of complaining. All anyone proves when they say stuff like that is that they should not be reading comics to begin with.

 

[Will Nolte]

I'm more referring to the people who draw like a two year old in the comics. Some of those artists are so horrible you can't even tell what it is they are drawing, at least you can tell who Ramos is drawing most of the time.

I can't remember names off the top of my head, but I do remember that the person who drew the "Shed" storyline was just a complete mess and people here praised him. Also I don't see what the big hoopla is about Emma Rios. I just find her art stupid...don't even get me started on that guy who is about to take over on FF (Future Foundation, not Fantastic Four...Bagley is awesome.)

 

[runawayboulder]

Chis Bachalo did SHED with Emma Rios. The thing about that arc was the story and tone was very fitting to his style.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

While I'm not a fan of Ramos, you think that Ross Andru sucks... thus taking you completely out of the running for criticizing any artists...

if you had read that old post of mine THOROUGHLY, you would have seen that I said that I USED to think Ross Andru was lacking...

key words being "USED TO"...

so I'll do my criticizing, thank you...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Sometimes i feel like i'm the only one who enjoys Ramos' artwork

Spider-Gnome likes his art...

That I do!

♫Three blind mice, three blind mice..♫

Ha, that's clever.

But, art is subjective...

and Ramos DOES?!?... my GOD, his art is just absolutely HIDEOUS...

what are some of the other artists that YOU find to be crappy?... myself, I find quite a few whose art is sorely lacking... but in Ramos' CASE, I find him to really be one of the WORST, if not THE worst, next to former artist Steve Skroce...

he was another whose art I thought to be really ugly...

Seriously, I can understand some not liking Ramos's style, and I'll admit at times he stretches anatomy a bit too far, but I honestly don't think he or Skroce are the WORST. But then again, you trashed Andru, so I don't know what your basis is. Who do YOU like? (Not trying to be confrontational, just asking).

While I'm not a fan of Ramos, you think that Ross Andru sucks... thus taking you completely out of the running for criticizing any artists...

Beat me to it...

if you had read that old post of mine THOROUGHLY, you would have seen that I said that I USED to think Ross Andru was lacking...

key words being "USED TO"...

so I'll do my criticizing, thank you...

That was not really in context of what you were saying. You said:

... he has to be one of the worst artists Spidey has EVER had... and I thought years ago Ross Andru was bad... Andru compared to Ramos is like an art god...

This does not imply that you USE to think he was bad, but now you like him. It's more, "I thought that was bad, but Ramos is even worse!" I'm assuming that is how MOTB took it as well.

 

[Spider-Man '92]

Honestly, I prefer my comics to look a little more rounded, ala JRJR or Ramos, but then I do like the edge of more grounded and polished work. I'm a mixed bag, but if I could only have it one way I'd stick with the more toony side.

 

[Will Nolte]

I do agree that the Shed story needed a darker look and the art did kind of fit. The issue I have is how messy it all looks. I dunno but I do prefer the art to have a cleaner edge to it. When they leave it messy like that it looks unfinished and lacking true shape in what the artist is trying to convey.

I won't lie, Mark Bagley is one of my favorite artists, possibly my number 1. Bags drew a lot of bright, cartoony scenes, but he could also do dark scenes as well...all the while it was very clean but you knew what the tone was...

One of my favorite Bagley covers. Very dark setting but still very clean. I believe Bags did his own inks on this cover as well seeing as only his name is listed. I like the lighter lines here, unlike the heavy handed inks that you typically see on Bagley/(insert various inker here) covers.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I've always loved that cover. The issue was fantastic as well

That was my favorite run of Amazing Spider-Man... and potentially comics: Amazing Spider-Man 351-the Clone Saga. The rest of the Spidey titles were hit or miss through that era but Amazing under Bags' pencils was just nonstop amazing!

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

That I do!



Ha, that's clever.

But, art is subjective...



Seriously, I can understand some not liking Ramos's style, and I'll admit at times he stretches anatomy a bit too far, but I honestly don't think he or Skroce are the WORST. But then again, you trashed Andru, so I don't know what your basis is. Who do YOU like? (Not trying to be confrontational, just asking).



Beat me to it...



That was not really in context of what you were saying. You said:



This does not imply that you USE to think he was bad, but now you like him. It's more, "I thought that was bad, but Ramos is even worse!" I'm assuming that is how MOTB took it as well.

let me get the Andru thing straightened out...

when Andru first came on the book, I really didn't like him at all, especially after seeing his first effort on Spidey with that Marvel Super Heroes #14, which I STILL find to be a lacklustre effort...

when he came onto the ASM title itself, I was not pleased in the least, remembering that MSH issue... after a time, I gradually started to accept the art and slowly grew to like it... not much, but it was easier to digest after a time... his art did improve from the time between MSH and his first ASM effort...

Andru isn't one of my favorites but I've appreciated and accepted his years past work on the ASM title as time went by... he's not one of my faves, but he's ok...

so Andru compared to Ramos IS an art god... I will ALWAYS find Ramos' art awesomely repulsive... I never liked him on his first run on Spidey and then when he returned a while back...

as for my favorite artists for Spidey?... well, I'm old school, so Ditko and Romita Sr are at the top of the list... as for the others...

Mark Bagley
Ron Frenz
Jim Mooney
JRJR
Mike Deodato
John Byrne
Ed Hannigan
John Buscema
Keith Pollard
Mike Weiringo
Mark Buckingham
Todd McFarlane...

and as for the ones I just can't really get into...

Humberto Ramos
Joe Bennett
Sal Buscema
Steve Skroce
Alex Saviuk
Erik Larsen
Gil Kane
Al Milgrom
Marcos Martin

all of the above isn't a complete list, just the ones that come to mind at the moment...

they're MY personal preferences... don't fault me for mine... I don't fault you for yours...

and that's it, really, not that I have to explain myself to you or anyone else, which I DON'T, but I just wanted to clarify and enlighten you and any others as to what I was saying and meaning earlier about the Andru remark...

take it or leave it, like it or not...

end of discussion

 

[runawayboulder]

I've always loved that cover. The issue was fantastic as well

That was my favorite run of Amazing Spider-Man... and potentially comics: Amazing Spider-Man 351-the Clone Saga. The rest of the Spidey titles were hit or miss through that era but Amazing under Bags' pencils was just nonstop amazing!

Same here, I loved Pursuit. It had one of the best endings ever.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Thanks for the reply, THUNDERSTRIKE. Again, wasn't judging you, only wondered about which artist you liked.

let me get the Andru thing straightened out...

when Andru first came on the book, I really didn't like him at all, especially after seeing his first effort on Spidey with that Marvel Super Heroes #14, which I STILL find to be a lacklustre effort...

when he came onto the ASM title itself, I was not pleased in the least, remembering that MSH issue... after a time, I gradually started to accept the art and slowly grew to like it... not much, but it was easier to digest after a time... his art did improve from the time between MSH and his first ASM effort...

Andru isn't one of my favorites but I've appreciated and accepted his years past work on the ASM title as time went by... he's not one of my faves, but he's ok...

To be honest, I have a Marvel Treasury with a Spider-Man from I think Marvel Team-Up that Andru did that I'm not too fond of. So, yeah, maybe some of his earlier stuff was eh. But, for me, Andru drew the bulk of Amazing I read as a kid, and to me it is pretty iconic. I assume I'm a bit younger than you, started reading Amazing in 1973, age 8. I enjoyed Gil Kane's pencils with Romita's inks and Andru. I loved the grit and detail.

so Andru compared to Ramos IS an art god... I will ALWAYS find Ramos' art awesomely repulsive... I never liked him on his first run on Spidey and then when he returned a while back...

I like Ramos's style, but since it is an extreme style, I get it's not to everyone's taste. I like my art to have a style, clean lines

When I have more time, I can comment on your lists. Some of the artists you like, I like and others I don't. The artists you don't like, again, some I like and some I agree I don't like. But, it just proves art is subjective.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

Thanks for the reply, THUNDERSTRIKE. Again, wasn't judging you, only wondered about which artist you liked.



To be honest, I have a Marvel Treasury with a Spider-Man from I think Marvel Team-Up that Andru did that I'm not too fond of. So, yeah, maybe some of his earlier stuff was eh. But, for me, Andru drew the bulk of Amazing I read as a kid, and to me it is pretty iconic. I assume I'm a bit younger than you, started reading Amazing in 1973, age 8. I enjoyed Gil Kane's pencils with Romita's inks and Andru. I loved the grit and detail.



I like Ramos's style, but since it is an extreme style, I get it's not to everyone's taste. I like my art to have a style, clean lines

When I have more time, I can comment on your lists. Some of the artists you like, I like and others I don't. The artists you don't like, again, some I like and some I agree I don't like. But, it just proves art is subjective.

I AM a bit older than you, when I was 9, I started reading ASM on a regular basis from #18 on till just after the infamous "deal with the devil" OMD nonsense, so for ME, the iconic is being Ditko's run and then Romita Sr.'s run...

Kane was one artist I just could never swallow and take on the whole... actually the issues I can handle from him are #88-90 and 96-98... the others in his run just turned me off... but yeah, Romita and Kane at times worked... Kane is an acquired taste that I could never acquire...

but yeah, as you say, art IS subjective, what works for others might not work for some... I just tell it like it is when it comes how I feel about certain artists' work...

it's just the snarky sarcasm and dry 'wit' of some people who get offended when their particular favorite artist gets a negative remark or comment or review from me that I can do without...

their response may be dry, but it's lacking in 'wit'...

 

[Themanofbat]

I've never read Marvel Super-Heroes #14... but it came out in 1967... so maybe Andru's art still needed to be fleshed out...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I AM a bit older than you, when I was 9, I started reading ASM on a regular basis from #18 on till just after the infamous "deal with the devil" OMD nonsense, so for ME, the iconic is being Ditko's run and then Romita Sr.'s run...

Yes, well of course you do have THE iconic run with Ditko & Romita Sr., no arguing there. I have a great love of both. Romita Sr. I actually prefer his later stuff (prior to Kane taking over) to his earlier stuff on the title.

On a side note, same thing with his son JRJR! His early stuff on Amazing was good, but looked like he was copying his dad's stuff. But, I really liked his work when he came back on JMS's run!

Kane was one artist I just could never swallow and take on the whole... actually the issues I can handle from him are #88-90 and 96-98... the others in his run just turned me off... but yeah, Romita and Kane at times worked... Kane is an acquired taste that I could never acquire...

I enjoyed Kane's run as it reminded me of when I started buying back issues. I started collecting in 73 and "discovered" back issues around 75, so the early 70's were the easiest to get and buy. And my first issue of Amazing was 120. So, I was exposed to Kane & Romita after my only knowledge of the character was the reruns of the 60's cartoon. Needless to say, the issue made an impression!

but yeah, as you say, art IS subjective, what works for others might not work for some... I just tell it like it is when it comes how I feel about certain artists' work...

it's just the snarky sarcasm and dry 'wit' of some people who get offended when their particular favorite artist gets a negative remark or comment or review from me that I can do without...

their response may be dry, but it's lacking in 'wit'...

Again, thanks for sharing and hope you didn't mind me asking about your preferences. I just thought it was odd what you initially said about Andru, as I know you're one of the longtimers (like TMOB & myself, though even longer), and I generally agree with many of your views.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I've never read Marvel Super-Heroes #14... but it came out in 1967... so maybe Andru's art still needed to be fleshed out...

OK, guys, you made me dig out my Marvel Treasury Edition. I knew there was one story in there that Andru did the art and did not like. Lo and Behold, it was reprinted from Marvel Super-Heroes #14! So, in that respect I can see THUNDERSTRIKE's point. Looking at it again, it is not really representative of what the work would be in Amazing.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

Yes, well of course you do have THE iconic run with Ditko & Romita Sr., no arguing there. I have a great love of both. Romita Sr. I actually prefer his later stuff (prior to Kane taking over) to his earlier stuff on the title.

On a side note, same thing with his son JRJR! His early stuff on Amazing was good, but looked like he was copying his dad's stuff. But, I really liked his work when he came back on JMS's run!



I enjoyed Kane's run as it reminded me of when I started buying back issues. I started collecting in 73 and "discovered" back issues around 75, so the early 70's were the easiest to get and buy. And my first issue of Amazing was 120. So, I was exposed to Kane & Romita after my only knowledge of the character was the reruns of the 60's cartoon. Needless to say, the issue made an impression!



Again, thanks for sharing and hope you didn't mind me asking about your preferences. I just thought it was odd what you initially said about Andru, as I know you're one of the longtimers (like TMOB & myself, though even longer), and I generally agree with many of your views.

don't mind in the least about you inquiring as to what works for me and what I like... I always like to jackjaw about Spidey and/or his artists from back in the day, as opposed to the current stuffs since the OMD fiasco...

and now the SUPERIOR Spider-Man is coming?... jesus... ... I HATE that title...

and thanks for YOUR courtesy and none of the snarkiness that I sometimes run across with some around these here parts...

well, gotta go now, the first ep of Arrow starts in about 20 minutes, so I wanna check out what's new in the world of heroes on the CW...

later, SG...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

don't mind in the least about you inquiring as to what works for me and what I like... I always like to jackjaw about Spidey and/or his artists from back in the day, as opposed to the current stuffs since the OMD fiasco...

and now the SUPERIOR Spider-Man is coming?... jesus... ... I HATE that title...

and thanks for YOUR courtesy and none of the snarkiness that I sometimes run across with some around these here parts...

well, gotta go now, the first ep of Arrow starts in about 20 minutes, so I wanna check out what's new in the world of heroes on the CW...

later, SG...

I just saw the blurb on Superior Spider-man in the Spidey thread in the Marvel Comics section. As someone who hated the whole I Am The Spider bit just before the Clone Saga, I have a bad feeling about this...


Enjoy, Arrow, Thunder! I can't because my cable company is in dispute with our local CW affiliate!

 

[Themanofbat]

While I thought Arrow tried to cram too much early on (in the first 15 minutes), it actually turned out to be pretty decent...

 

[Themanofbat]

Ha.... lookit all the old guys... born in the 60's (with one of us born in the 50's) chatting it up on the internets...

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

Ha.... lookit all the old guys... born in the 60's (with one of us born in the 50's) chatting it up on the internets...

we're all just a bunch of old fooks, huh?... t:

and that wasn't meant to be "folks"...

 

[JewishHobbit]

I'm posting just to interupt the old guy chat. Huray for annoying younger guys