BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 1

[regwec]

It makes me pause when I see that Joker described as Nolan's. I have the feeling that much of the artistry comes from Heath Ledger and the costume department.

 

[Marvin]

Whomever was responsible, it was swell. I can't imagine the next one won't take inspiration from it.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

It makes me pause when I see that Joker described as Nolan's. I have the feeling that much of the artistry comes from Heath Ledger and the costume department.

Here are my thoughts. Nolan's costumer/concept artist was very inspired. The writing was VERY great (which is partially Chris, Nolan, and yes, even Goyer's credit). They consulted the Joker's co-creator (something I'm fairly certain they did not do with the other villains. I KNOW they didn't do it with Bane.)

The Joker is also a very terrific villain to begin with, so it's not like they elevated a mediocre character.

Combine that with the fact that Ledger was so into his role that he was practically directing himself (the hostage vid is said to be directed by Heath), and you have a character who is bigger than life, even when depicted in a less fantastical setting.

I feel like in this case, no one person should get the credit.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

All that being said, Lex Luthor should be VERY little like the Joker. If anything, he should be the villain of the Fugitive movie or something like that

 

[Herolee10]

All that being said, Lex Luthor should be VERY little like the Joker. If anything, he should be the villain of the Fugitive movie or something like that

Indeed; if the villains that I'm about to mention are present in this film, I would use this TDK analogy on how their presence/importance should be portrayed in the upcoming film.

TDK Batman= Superman
TDK Harvey= Batman
TDK Joker= Lex Luthor
TDK Maroni= Deathstroke
TDK Lau/Scarecrow/The Rest o the Mob= Metallo
TDK Ramirez= Mercy
TDK James Gordon= Lois Lane

 

[BatLobster]

Nolan did have the vision and trust in Heath to cast him though.

Heath definitely turned it into a phenomenon, but Nolan gave him the opportunity to show the world what he had. It's one of those perfect storm things.

 

[Tobias]

I would love to see Joker in WF, If the film is split evenly between Batman and Superman. A true team-up.

I would go in a different direction with Joker than from Nolan.

This would help Luthor fatigue - he's most always the villain in Superman films.

Lex/Joker - now that's a combo.

Anyone want Joker or would a different Bats villain work better in WF?

 

[Loki882]

We've never really gotten complex CB mastermind Luthor yet. If we got him, then the "fatigue" would vanish pretty quickly.

 

[Tra-El]

If they use Joker, introduce him in a new movie for the entire duration as Jack Napier, mob; thug extraordinaire and let him resurface later down the road as the clown in further sequels, whatever the direction may be. WF is all about world building IMHO. That way, having "Jack Napier" would be a different outlook on the character so soon after Ledger.

 

[Tobias]

We've never really gotten complex CB mastermind Luthor yet. If we got him, then the "fatigue" would vanish pretty quickly.

I definitely want corporate Lex. Yes.

But who should the Bats villain be in WF?

Who would pair best with Lex?

Seems like a lot want Joker to be in the film but I can see othere prefer another. Ra is too big a Bats villain to include in WF - save him for the Bats solos.

Riddler would be too campy.

We'll see how it all plays out. No idea how much of the film will take place in Gotham but if it is a significant amount that opens the door to a lot of possibilities besides the Bat villain. Maybe Robin or Nightwing cameos. But mainly the film needs a good Bat villain and Batman has the best rogues gallery out there.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Indeed; if the villains that I'm about to mention are present in this film, I would use this TDK analogy on how their presence/importance should be portrayed in the upcoming film.

TDK Batman= Superman
TDK Harvey= Batman
TDK Joker= Lex Luthor
TDK Maroni= Deathstroke
TDK Lau/Scarecrow/The Rest o the Mob= Metallo
TDK Ramirez= Mercy
TDK James Gordon= Lois Lane

I bold the ones I agree with. Ironically, I feel like Superman should equal TDK with the Joker in terms of screen presence, driving the plot around, etc.

For me
Metallo=Dent. Heck TAS Metallo takes a visual hint from Two Face.

He should be a fully realized supporting figure (and I personally think Dent was slightly underwritten) , but should allow Superman to keep his own movie.

TDK Maroni-I ironically think Batman should fill this role. A minor character who is key to the plot with a bit of a personality who fades into the background.

Yes, I want MOS2 rather than a Superman/Batman driven sequel. I can dream, right?

Luthor should TOTALLY be in the background except for a few key scenes.
For me, Luthor=The Mob.

I don't want there to be ANY driving villain to be honest. I want the villain aspect to be a subplot, but the main plot to be devoted to the character of Clark and the relationships around him. When the main plot and subplot intertwine, I want Batman to complicate things.

Kind of like the TDKR comic, only with the roles switched, with Batman being Luthor's puppet. With Batman realizing the error of his ways after his actions stood in the way of Superman saving the day (I do want this to happen).

In the end of the day I want a great movie that serves as a character-driven sequel. I feel like we'll either get one or the other if we're lucky, but not both. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Loki882]

My choice for Batman villains would be either Deathstroke, Deadshot, Hush, or Riddler. I would prefer that the Joker be the sole villain in another film.

 

[Tobias]

My choice for Batman villains would be either Deathstroke, Deadshot, Hush, or Riddler. I would prefer that the Joker be the sole villain in another film.

Deathstroke would work. On Bat boards he seems to be wanted by quite a few.

No news yet on casting the WF's Bat villain. I guess that will come after Batman is cast.

It'll be interesting to see who they cast as Alfred. That could be an amazing role in WF with the right actor.

 

[Tra-El]

If it's going to be an "older" Batman, than is Alfred necc. in this new universe to tell a story and how old could he possibly be? I don't see too many Bat-family castings for WF. Maybe a few, possibly a villain, but it will be too much for this to take on without cluttering the screen. This is supposed to be a continuation to Man of Steel with Adams, Lane and Fishbourne returning and you can't leave out Lex or hell, even Jimmy Olsen if they were to work him into the new cinematic mythos.

If you're so confident in a new Bat-solo rebooted franchise, Tobias, then an Alfred casting would make sense for that, not WF/Superman-Batman.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

If it's going to be an "older" Batman, than is Alfred necc. in this new universe to tell a story and how old could he possibly be? I don't see too many Bat-family castings for WF. Maybe a few, possibly a villain, but it will be too much for this to take on without cluttering the screen. This is supposed to be a continuation to Man of Steel with Adams, Lane and Fishbourne returning and you can't leave out Lex or hell, even Jimmy Olsen if they were to work him into the new cinematic mythos.

If you're so confident in a new Bat-solo rebooted franchise, Tobias, then an Alfred casting would make sense for that, not WF/Superman-Batman.

I always think of Alfred as being 30+ years older than Batman. So twentysomething Alfred would probably be around 55 or so. So I guess mid-seventies. But I wouldn't mind a younger Alfred (Under 70). It would provide a distinction from past incarnations.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

My choice for Batman villains would be either Deathstroke, Deadshot, Hush, or Riddler. I would prefer that the Joker be the sole villain in another film.

I actually would want Hush to be the dominant villain of a movie. I know TDK isn't as comic-booky as it can be, and Batman89 doesn't try too hard to be faithful, but I feel like Joker's served his role as a main villain well.

I would totally go for Joker as a supporting villain/henchman. Or a supporting character who BECOMES the main villain after the primary one is caught or redeemed or something like that.

 

[Loki882]

For Alfred, my choices would be either Michael Gambon or Max von Sydow.

 

[Loki882]

Also, another Batman villain who I'd love to see in the movie is Lady Shiva. She could make for an awesome villain, and her dynamic with Lex could be interesting.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Also, another Batman villain who I'd love to see in the movie is Lady Shiva. She could make for an awesome villain, and her dynamic with Lex could be interesting.

Would love to see Shiva in a live action film. BUT SHE MUST NOT BE PLAYED BY KELLY HU!!!

 

[Jordacar]

Would love to see Shiva in a live action film. BUT SHE MUST NOT BE PLAYED BY KELLY HU!!!

What about Maggie Q?

 

[Rowsdower!]

Your avvy gives me an idea. I say we take things in a different direction.

Cast Charles Dance as Alfred and show flashbacks of him tormenting and traumatizing Bruce as a kid.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

What about Maggie Q?

Ms. Q would be acceptable.

Really though I would like to see Shiva as a no nonsense killer for hire. No need for any of the usual "fantasy killer for hire" tropes we usually see (Shiva does come with her own tropes but later on those.) I think the best presentation for Shiva in all of comics was that of her own creator's, Denny O'neal in his truly legendary run on the Question. She was not some "costumed" assassin with some gimmick. She was simply one of the greatest martial arts masters in the world and sought ways to hone her skill. She was amoral in the sense that the test of her skill and conviction were her primary motivation, but she also had moments where the non sociopathic side of her came out as well, and one never knew when that would be. Having a character that is not "costumed" per se along with a mastery of combat would be interesting to see against the Caped Crusader.

 

[Loki882]

When I saw her in Simone's BOP, she didn't usually have any costume, besides a long coat. Also, Kelly Hu is epically awesome and would be fantastic as Shiva, but there are other choices.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

When I saw her in Simone's BOP, she didn't usually have any costume, besides a long coat. Also, Kelly Hu is epically awesome and would be fantastic as Shiva, but there are other choices.

If you have never read Denny O's THE QUESTION check it out. Underrated brilliance. When some were into Sandman, I was discovering Denny's QUESTION. Totally makes him NOT Ditko's Objectivist mouthpiece. Loved that Vic.

 

[Tobias]

Spot on analysis from the Superman Homepage that explains why some are feeling "dread" about this project.

Scotty points out how MOS2 already seems to be morphing into a WF film. That may be the best fans can hope for - he goes on to speculate on fans' worst fear - that this basically turns into a Batman film. He ponders if Snyder would walk if that happens but, given the career boost Snyder would get from being in charge of the new Batman, JL and the shared universe, Scotty realizes that isn't likely.

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?rowstart=26