BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 1

[roach]

this thread

 

[Rowsdower!]

That's all you were able to take away from that, eh? I don't understand how you can get so bent out of shape about the most tame criticisms of MoS when you can't refrain from making rude comments like this, which doesn't even address the point made, I might add.



You could flip the script on everything you've said and it would apply to the other side of the fence as well. Your issue is a matter of tolerance (or the lack thereof), nothing more. How would I sound if I said that I was tired of hearing you gush about the film and that I wish you'd stop telling me why I should love it? You'd probably tell me to go pound sand, right? Well...

As The Batman pointed out earlier, the only people getting out of line here are the ones who are making the criticisms personal. There's been more than enough level-headed debate by people who actually care to engage one another rather than getting snarky and defensive.

This is why I have the utmost respect for people like Batmannerism and UltimateWebhead; they enjoy their respective favorites and are comfortable enough in their own skin to debate the content of other people's arguments rather than calling their character or motives into question.

Wow, okay so you really took my dig at Live Free or Die Hard personally. That's... interesting but all I was trying to say was that it was an odd example to make of a bad director and a good script. Just my opinion, but I thought both were sh**, and even though movie made money, the follow-up didn't do so well so it's possible that after sitting through Live Free or Die Hard, fans of the franchise said, "That's it. Enough of this." I know I did.

As for me gushing over MOS and telling you that you should love it... pretty sure I never did that. I probably did that with some posters in the past but like I said, I'm not going to change anyone's mind about it so there's really no point. I'm just saying that after a year of listening to people bring up all the problems they had with the movie in literally every thread on this forum, it's gotten annoying. I mean, what more is there to say? You hated the acting/story/dialogue/direction/explosions/destruction/special effects/color palettes/lens flares/camerawork/hair/lack of trunks/credits/title? Is there any aspect of this movie that hasn't been beaten to death by now?

It's true that THIS thread should be the one where they get to do just that, and it would be easy enough to avoid it. But well... sometimes you have to rain on someone's parade after they've spent months raining on yours.

Bless you, Sir. Sometimes you say what I'm thinking, but am too chicken**** to say.

I don't begrudge people their right to complain (we all do it at some point), but the adjective "cringe-worthy" has become...cringe-worthy.

Thank you. Trust me, it's often not worth getting into it but once in a while, I just have to speak my mind on this stuff.

Additionally, I don't believe I've EVER heard anyone use the word "cringeworthy" in real life. It's just kind of funny considering how much it's thrown around here. I wonder if the people who use it in every other sentence on this board actual say it when they talk to people.

 

[dnno1]

The second transformers movie made over 800 million worldwide yet was panned by critics and movie goers alike (it has an abysmal 58% user approval rate on rotten tomatoes, one of the worst I've seen).
Batman begins, however, made a little over $400 million worldwide yet was well received by fans and critics.
What caliber of film would you rather have, a transformers like success where people flock to see the film based solely on spectacle and leave disappointed, or a modest box office success where a much smaller audience goes to see it and leaves happy about the quality or the film?
The point you continually belabor over and over again is that all that matters for this film is that it gets meat in the seats, that people will turn out in droves to see it because that will qualify this film as a success.
And you know what? I'm happy for you because that is almost guaranteed to happen, a large amount of people are guaranteed to see this movie.
But for the millionth time, that is in no way shape or form what this thread is about. We are trying to talk about how we feel this movie may not be evverything we feel that it should be for a variety of reasons. Some of us have legitimate concerns that we want to discuss about the quality of the film, and there's no reason we shouldn't be able to.
That's why I have a problem with you saying we are "trolling", when all we're doing is discussing problems we foresee in a movie we are pretty excited about. Who the heck here is trying to "derail" this project? Who here has the power or influen ce to do anything like that over an Internet forum? Do you realize how paranoid that sounds?

You are assuming that everyone who watched the second Transformers pick was dissapointed. The true fact is that the next edition made even more money than the second and it wasn't that much better or worse. If it was so bad as you are trying to illustrate then why are so many people (in the tens of millions) still going to see it? I have to conclude that the reviws ar meaningless and the popularity (and word of mouth) carry more weight.

 

[sf2]

feeling sorry for all the great cast in MOS as now they are becoming the second tier supporting roles in BvS...

 

[Naked Shia]

I'm not not excited for this movie.

 

[Sharkboy]

I'm not messing with Rowsdower today, for all i know he IS Lorne Malvo.

 

[slumcat]

Yeah, but I don't recall anyone labeling Terrio's writing as cheesy, and then hating on this project even more because of it. He may have been sarcastic, I couldn't tell.

I am not. I think Argo was ****. Thought it when I saw it in October of that year. And 5 months later, it wins the damn Oscar for the best film of the year, though Affleck failing to be nominated for Best Director was atleast some justice done.

So I have seen one film written by Terio and did not like it at all. So I have no reason to be confident about him.

 

[slumcat]

There seems to be always a surprising amount of passion involved in this kind of project for die hard fans of the material or genre. It can lead to extremes in both optimism and negativity.

There are casting and concept choices that do not particularly excite me.
But I am willing to give the production and crew the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think BvS is likely to be a great work of cinematic art. I expect it to be an entertaining action-adventure piece, at least on the level of MOS. Thus, I expect it to not irritate me so I'm taken out of the narrative.

I have yet to see a superhero movie that did not have flaws. It is a difficult task to craft an action-adventure movie with a coherent plot that also manages to convincingly world-build a reality where science-defying powers work, to portray recognizably characters who have enjoyed decades of aggregated characterization and continuity, to create and resolve conflict in outlandish scale within very limited narrative time frames, and still satisfy basic requirements of storytelling.

Most naturalistic fiction does not need to create a whole new workable world as backdrop, so the work for SF kind of fiction becomes much harder. Superhero movies as subset of SF movies have even more problems by dealing with shakier conceptual structures inherent in the genre conventions.

I do not watch such kind of movie for slick, naturalistic dialogue. I do not expect innovative commentary on the human condition. I do not expect soul-shaking epiphanies as a result of my watching childhood favorite characters assembled on the silver screen.

I expect it to be competent entertainment. There are parameters of competence I wish sustained. Those parameters change from person to person.

But in the end, it's just a movie, you know...

 

[Naked Shia]

I know a lot of people consider the incredibles to be incredible.... I like it. It's cute. But the pacing is horrible. And even if I did watch it twice, ti didn't feel memorable to me.

You may say it's less flawed than a lot of superhero movies, and it may be true, but to me, it's also less memorable than most.

 

[Bathead]

Oh, for f*** sake.
Can't summa you people just sit back and relax and just enjoy a movie without over-analyzing the hell out of it? You'd think you were all frustrated film school graduates who couldn't get jobs as critics.
Jeez.

 

[Naked Shia]

Bathead speaks wisely. But coming from him, it's no surprise.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

F*** sake, I knew I shouldn't have bothered posting in this thread. If I took a drink every time some pretentious hype poster used the word "cringeworthy" I'd be sh**faced in five minutes.

I suppose this thread wouldn't be so bloody annoying if these arguments didn't seem to find their way into every other thread on this board. It makes me just want to say, "Fine! You win! It was the worst movie in the history of the universe and the sequel will be a disaster!" Maybe that will make us all move on.

I'm not saying that all of you are wrong, but so many of these complaints are so subjective. You didn't see chemistry between Cavill and Adams? I saw a ton of it. You thought Cavill was a blank slate? I thought he was every bit as good as Reeve, etc.

Thanks. The thing is, it's fine if people thought the movie was bad but I'm just so tired of it. I know I'm never going to convince any of them that it was good, so I wish they'd stop listing countless reasons why we all should have hated it. Now, as for BvS, I would be lying if I said there werent some things about it that make me apprehensive, but having "nothing but dread" at this early stage, where we've seen no footage, we have no definite information of the story, and we don't even know the entire cast, is just silly.

See, the problem is... this is the reason you don't see my face around here much anymore

I feel like every single time I post in a thread, a few posts later is someone *****ing about the fact someone dared to be negative.

If fans of the film could just accept that all these opinions people are giving are subjective (and they are obviously subjective... you don't have to say 'BTW this is just my subjective opinion at the end of every sentence ) and stop flipping their lid every time someone says they feel negative or that they didnt enjoy this part or this part of the film... maybe i'd still post here as much as I used to.

Maybe I could just feel comfort in knowing that other people feel the same way too, and those similar minded people could perhaps even make me feel a bit more optimisitic because I wouldn't have to always be on the defensive.

But as it is, yeah it is VERY hard to get excited about the film, because i've been so put off by people's attitudes on the forum since MOS that I don't really feel like I can discuss things with anyone anymore.

I know that some posters can be rude about how they feel, but having a mini rant because someone dared to call something 'cringe-worthy' just seems really unfair.

If you're hearing that word a lot, then that's because a lot of people feel the exact same way about it. Period.

It's not up to you to dictate the vocabulary on this forum.

You find this thread annoying? Then why the hell are you coming in here?

Seems to me (or at least that's why I ventured into this thread), that this a thread raised by someone who is feeling disappointed about the franchise and it's future and wanted to talk to people about that.

I don't see many people coming into threads about what was great about MOS and start complaining every time someone says they loved something, or they thought something was 'awesome'.

Sorry to pop at you Rowsdowser... I just... I really miss talking about Superman. And unfortunately, it's posts like that that stop me from being able to do so.

P.S. There ARE cringe-worthy (to me) lines in the film... LITERALLY, the line after the kiss I actually cringed. So if I can't use that word to describe my face cringing, what should I be saying?

 

[slumcat]

Its like anything other than "lets have a mass fap off to this masterpiece film no one has ever seen" is the only acceptable way to discuss it.

Any dissent is sacrilege and blasphemy of the highest order, a capital offense.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I think one of the reasons I felt really shocked by the vile reactions to some of my initial negative posts about the film when it was first released, was that I felt i'd earned a bit more of an open mind from people of this forum.

I've always been a reasonable poster. I've never been rude or a troll or unfair to other posters about their opinions. And i've always explain WHY I feel the way I feel. I don't just say 'it was awful' over and over again without giving my reasons for feeling that way.

So when people immediate start branding you a whiner, or saying you just 'built it up too much' or that everything you feel about it is insignificant because it's JUST how YOU feel... it feels kind of like a smack in the face.

So why am I not excited about the next film like I was the first one?

Well, some of it is because my faith in their ability has been shaken by my opinion that they didn't succeed in doing so with the first one.

And some if it is because I am not confident in some casting choices.

I should be able to come into this thread and discuss those things without being made to feel like i'm doing something wrong.

 

[regwec]

Well, you are, aren't you? I mean, the nature of a forum like this is that there will always be others who argue against your viewpoint. You just need to have the courage of your convictions. You know that you aren't doing anything wrong by expressing your view, so don't let yourself feel that way. Either confront or ignore those who belittle you.

 

[Sharkboy]

I kind of get the impression that Snyder would rather do a Batman film than a Superman film and that it's been that way for a long while.

 

[snpklsdmbldr]

Oh, for f*** sake.
Can't summa you people just sit back and relax and just enjoy a movie without over-analyzing the hell out of it? You'd think you were all frustrated film school graduates who couldn't get jobs as critics.
Jeez.

^SHH in a nutshell + a lot of negativity, flawed logic and bad puns trying to joke.

 

[DA_Champion]

You are stating the obvious. Of course WB is taking a big risk with this film, since it is a highly anticipated big budget film. But how many big budget films are panned critically or have fallen victim to many of the criticisms we've outlined in our posts? Many. Just because they have a lot riding on this movie does not mean it will be a quality film.

You have just mentioned ensemble films made by Bryan Singer, JJ Abrams, Peter Jackson and Steven Soderbergh. I'm sorry but I do not think Snyder belongs to be among the ranks of those directors when it comes to fleshed out characters and narrative. That is primarily where most of these questions and criticisms are coming from - a lack of faith in Snyder and the crew.

Those four are hardly impressive when it comes to character work.

Days of Future Past didn't have one legitimate character arc.
Abrams made Star Trek into Darkness.
Jackson makes boring movies.
Soderbergh made Contagion, the second or third worst movie I've ever seen in theatres.

There are plenty of directors better than Snyder, but this constant sniping that Snyder is the absolute worst director in Hollywood is beyond ridiculous.

 

[DA_Champion]

I think one of the reasons I felt really shocked by the vile reactions to some of my initial negative posts about the film when it was first released, was that I felt i'd earned a bit more of an open mind from people of this forum.

I've always been a reasonable poster. I've never been rude or a troll or unfair to other posters about their opinions. And i've always explain WHY I feel the way I feel. I don't just say 'it was awful' over and over again without giving my reasons for feeling that way.

So when people immediate start branding you a whiner, or saying you just 'built it up too much' or that everything you feel about it is insignificant because it's JUST how YOU feel... it feels kind of like a smack in the face.

So why am I not excited about the next film like I was the first one?

Well, some of it is because my faith in their ability has been shaken by my opinion that they didn't succeed in doing so with the first one.

And some if it is because I am not confident in some casting choices.

I should be able to come into this thread and discuss those things without being made to feel like i'm doing something wrong.

More than most vanilla films, a lot of people loved and a lot of people hated MoS.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Well, you are, aren't you? I mean, the nature of a forum like this is that there will always be others who argue against your viewpoint. You just need to have the courage of your convictions. You know that you aren't doing anything wrong by expressing your view, so don't let yourself feel that way. Either confront or ignore those who belittle you.

Yeah you're probably right.

Sometimes I can be an arguementative pain in the ass I think MOS is just a sensitive topic to me... and also because a lot of my favourite posters are 'on the other side' of the divide... I feel like Littlefoot in the land before time

More than most vanilla films, a lot of people loved and a lot of people hated MoS.

I don't hate all of it. But I do kind of hate the overall product, yeah. And there are things they've done that they can't undo... things that affect how i'd feel about the next film or the entire franchise tbh.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade though.

There are aspects of it that I dislike from an actual quality standpoint. But the actual 'hate' comes from my own likes and dislikes as a fan, so it's of course subjective.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I have yet to see a superhero movie that did not have flaws.

I have yet to see a flawless movie
Not gonna happen

Can't summa you people just sit back and relax and just enjoy a movie without over-analyzing the hell out of it?

I like this reaction, I often wonder about this

 

[Visualiza]

Its like anything other than "lets have a mass fap off to this masterpiece film no one has ever seen" is the only acceptable way to discuss it.

Any dissent is sacrilege and blasphemy of the highest order, a capital offense.

Several recent posts validate this.

What's interesting is that it comes from a group of people who insist on having their opinions respected and their voices heard. Apparently, that courtesy doesn't go both ways.

 

[StarLord]

A lot of the negative comments come across as personal attacks more than anything.

On Affleck, Snyder, Goyer and Terrio. It's unbelievable.

 

[Naked Shia]

A lot of the negative comments come across as personal attacks more than anything.

On Affleck, Snyder, Goyer and Terrio. It's unbelievable.

Exactly. It doesn't bother me that people don't like the movie.

But seeing people claiming that Snyder is a hack, etc, is quite disturbing, dry and, unlike what they claim, it's far from being legitimate complaints.

 

[-Arya-]

I am not. I think Argo was ****. Thought it when I saw it in October of that year. And 5 months later, it wins the damn Oscar for the best film of the year, though Affleck failing to be nominated for Best Director was atleast some justice done.

So I have seen one film written by Terio and did not like it at all. So I have no reason to be confident about him.

Fair enough - agree to disagree.