Is Superman getting the shaft in "Justice League"? - Part 2

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Honestly, after what happened with BvS, let's just say that I'm very skeptical that JL will offer something better for the character of Superman.

It would be one thing IF a new creative team had been put in charge of this film. However, we still have the same old original team from the previous film so it's hard to believe that they could turn everything upside down just like that. If anything, I'm starting to think that the biggest reasons why MOS did such a good job of establishing Superman's character (when compared to BvS) was because Nolan was somewhat involved with the story of the film.

And what is this with the whole "measuring of the *****"? It's not about ego here. I have never said that I wanted Superman to be portrayed the best of the best or to have the most screen time, etc. I have only stated that I wish the character would be treated as a equal to his peers in this group film (i.e. showing up on theatrical posters, having something to do with the team, etc.)

I mean is it really that demanding when a fan just wants to see Superman have some good interactions with the league in the first live action JL film? Why does wanting something like that automatically translate into me being an unreasonable fan who will only be satisfied when the everything on my supposed checklist is completely marked?

Yeah, I haven't seen the film. But guess what? A LOT of people were able to accurately predict on how BvS would turn out when we started getting news and footage about that film.

yes, we managed to predict and get those right. and those were bad "ideas". however, as a whole, it is good.
to me, BvS only suffers because of their greed to promote the next movies:- Wonderwoman, JL & The Batman.
 
Here's the thing


If I was thinking from the POV of a writer of live action blockbusters (much different than comics or animated films), I think I would take any of the main characters over Superman. And I love Superman (right behind Batman, who will always be my favorite), but he's just hard to write for. Batman can fight anybody, he used gadgets and spy equipment, he's a mystery detective, fights normal people using martial arts, etc. Superman is a brawler who is so super powerful that you need a certain type of villain, if you're gonna have exciting action. Somebody who can match his strength and slug it out with him in some big CGI destruction fest.


You have to come up with all these ways for any normal people to actually be any kind of threat to him, like kidnapping his mom or kryptonite. You can't have these exciting sequences where he drops in and uses his skills to save the hostages and fights some guy on top of a moving train or a scaffolding, etc. Same with Captain America, fighting on top of a helicopter where you're scared he's gonna fall. Iron Man has all these gadgets and cool things his suit can do


Superman just has to fight some big monster or a Kryptonian, and slug it out in a regular fist fight bar brawl, or throw them into things and fly into each other really fast. There's not many exciting things you can do with him, or at least not near the amount of variation you can get with other characters, no matter how clever you get as a writer.

Look at the Batman V Superman slug fest compared to Iron Man fighting Captain America, for example

I think they did a pretty damn good job of telling a Superman story with MoS, all things considered. The action was good, but people felt like it was just too much destruction porn, because there's not much else they can do with the character to deliver a big screen blockbuster action sequence.I just don't think he'll ever be as exciting on the big screen to the general audience as the other characters, and therefore, their films will be more popular. There's a reason they're struggling with making the character's films as interesting to the GA. His name and his emblem will always be at that top number 1 or 2 spot, but the stories won't be


And, like I said, I love Superman, I'm not knocking him. He's just a lot harder to write for or get excited about. Not impossible, just on a completely different level of difficulty

And yet somehow Superman comics have continued to sell for decades. One problem is that most writers/film makers only look to Donner's version, and don't really consult the comics. Donner's version - as fast as the Flash and as strong or weak as the plot requires - is hard to write. However, the fact that many stories have done it I think proves it's not as hard as some writers initially suppose.

From an action standpoint, Superman is somewhat challenging, but so are all flying, super-strong characters. In that regard I do think adapting anime fighting convention was a good move on Snyder's part. We'd do well to keep in mind that most of the credible criticisms of this Superman have not focused on the action, but on the characterization. And in that regard, Superman is not hard to write.

I've long believed that the challenge in writing good Superman stories isn't that he's too powerful or too perfect, but that he doesnt have enough around him to make for interesting stories. I think it's useful to compare Superman with Batman. Yes, Batman is a darker character, and therefore inherently a bigger draw, but Wonder Woman and MCU films prove that lighter characters can also draw a crowd. Superman has also been just as complex a character as Batman (as BvS tried to show), and so that isn't it either. No, I think what makes the difference is the richness of Batman's environment, the complexity of Batman's opposition (both personal and thematic), and the prevalence of multiple supporting heroes, villains and civilians that together embody the complexity of human experience.

Broadly speaking, Superman lacks this comprehensive development, and it's not because he's harder to write. No, the issue is that Superman is too often pulled in two different directions: one that wants to keep him as simplistic as he was pre-Byrne, and the other that wants to make him more complex by entirely deconstructing him. There's a third pressure from Hollywood that wants to keep Superman as a sort of modern-day, secular Jesus in New York.

Superman needs a better utilized supporting cast, a richer environment, and more complex villains who both directly challenge Superman's values (he needs a more specific purpose) and speak to the human condition. Get all of those elements, plus good action, without losing the essence and persona of Superman, and I think you'd have better quality and better received Superman films.

Edit: Just to give a few examples, some of which have been mentioned here, this is where utilizing the Daily Planet more (and Clark Kent) and allies could really help. Yes, Batman has gadgets and tactics. But as you note, he's also a detective, and has an important detective ally. Clark is an investigative reporter, not too dissimilar from a detective. Use that more integrally in a story, rather than having Clark serve as a commercial break or the Daily Planet as mere awestruck or imperiled observers. Superman has also had many allies; use them to make up for all those tactics Batman uses. And perhaps give Superman an organization and "idea" to challenge him, something that not only requires more people to beat, but also something that needs to be overcome by more than just brute force. Superman can be more than just his fists, it just requires someone willing to actually do something more with the character.
 
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And yet somehow Superman comics have continued to sell for decades. One problem is that most writers/film makers only look to Donner's version, and don't really consult the comics. Donner's version - as fast as the Flash and as strong or weak as the plot requires - is hard to write. However, the fact that many stories have done it I think proves it's not as hard as some writers initially suppose.

From an action standpoint, Superman is somewhat challenging, but so are all flying, super-strong characters. In that regard I do think adapting anime fighting convention was a good move on Snyder's part. We'd do well to keep in mind that most of the credible criticisms of this Superman have not focused on the action, but on the characterization. And in that regard, Superman is not hard to write.

I've long believed that the challenge in writing good Superman stories isn't that he's too powerful or too perfect, but that he doesnt have enough around him to make for interesting stories. I think it's useful to compare Superman with Batman. Yes, Batman is a darker character, and therefore inherently a bigger draw, but Wonder Woman and MCU films prove that lighter characters can also draw a crowd. Superman has also been just as complex a character as Batman (as BvS tried to show), and so that isn't it either. No, I think what makes the difference is the richness of Batman's environment, the complexity of Batman's opposition (both personal and thematic), and the prevalence of multiple supporting heroes, villains and civilians that together embody the complexity of human experience.

Broadly speaking, Superman lacks this comprehensive development, and it's not because he's harder to write. No, the issue is that Superman is too often pulled in two different directions: one that wants to keep him as simplistic as he was pre-Byrne, and the other that wants to make him more complex by entirely deconstructing him. There's a third pressure from Hollywood that wants to keep Superman as a sort of modern-day, secular Jesus in New York.

Superman needs a better utilized supporting cast, a richer environment, and more complex villains who both directly challenge Superman's values (he needs a more specific purpose) and speak to the human condition. Get all of those elements, plus good action, without losing the essence and persona of Superman, and I think you'd have better quality and better received Superman films.
and i think if Zack had made superman cared about the people and saved the people more obvious (so that you guys could really SEE IT), the complaint would reduce tremendously.
in this aspect, Marvels have done a very good job.
 
and i think if Zack had made superman cared about the people and saved the people more obvious (so that you guys could really SEE IT), the complaint would reduce tremendously.
in this aspect, Marvels have done a very good job.

It's much more than that, though. So much of this conversation has revolved around how much screen time Superman needs to have, and whether or not he should do this particular thing, when in fact I think there's a much bigger issue with regards to what Snyder/WB/Hollywood is and isn't willing to do with Superman. One major problem with BvS is that, in a film arguably about the use of power in pursuit of justice, the film essentially tells us that the ONLY things Superman does are rescue people from disasters and defeat alien threats. That's a very limited scope for a character who briefly tries to combat actual human injustice. Just compare that to Batman who in the space of two films is crime-fighter and detective and resistance fighter and prophet and now visionary and team leader. Superman is much more than those two activities, and it's about time his live-action storytellers fully realize the character, in the context of a shared universe with multiple superheroes and villains.
 
That's a very limited scope for a character who briefly tries to combat actual human injustice.
But he does try as Clark Kent to combat human injustice with batman but perry didn't let him.
 
hmm...a bit too sci fi, away from what people want / would expect for a superman story... don't you think?

Superman vs the Elite isn't sci-fi or did you skip through that part? It deals with the very stuff people complain about when it comes to superman, namely whether an altruistic, colorful character can work and the answer is ANY character (dark or light, serious or otherwise) can work if written properly.

The brainiac storyline on the other hand is sci-fi yeah and it's never been done before with superman, not on film atleast and if done well then it will work cos otherwise it's same old same old especially with a character whose had no less than 7 live action films. Look at Thor the dark world, the best part of that movie was the Asgard stuff and superman's story is as much sci-fi as it is earth bound, infact that's the beauty of the character you can go in so many directions with it, the sky is the limit if the writer has a semblance of imagination.

and is there a charismatic, optimistic, intelligent superman???

Yeah there is, watch Superman 1 and 2, watch STAS, watch Superman's 2 part appearance on Supergirl and watch superman vs the Elite and you'll see a charismatic, optimistic, intelligent superman, I really don't know why the concept is so hard for you grasp.
 
If they ever manage to make one more Superman solo film, I hope that instead of having Superman fight yet another world-ending event, that they try to take a step back on that department and try to make his biggest obstacle more personal.

I also hope that they have Superman actually build up relationships with new and interesting characters in his solo film, especially since it looks like his time with the League will be severely limited...what with him being dead and all.

I'd love to see him interact and build up relationships with the likes of Supergirl, Steel, Lobo, etc. Heck, if Thor Ragnarok ends up being successful, take Superman to War-World where he is put in a gladiator situation as well and has to defeat Mongul in order to free himself and possibly liberate the people under Mongul's rule.

I'm still very much an advocate of the idea of having Superman go off on his own adventures and form his own group (like how Thor seemingly does in his upcoming third film).
 
It's much more than that, though. So much of this conversation has revolved around how much screen time Superman needs to have, and whether or not he should do this particular thing, when in fact I think there's a much bigger issue with regards to what Snyder/WB/Hollywood is and isn't willing to do with Superman. One major problem with BvS is that, in a film arguably about the use of power in pursuit of justice, the film essentially tells us that the ONLY things Superman does are rescue people from disasters and defeat alien threats. That's a very limited scope for a character who briefly tries to combat actual human injustice. Just compare that to Batman who in the space of two films is crime-fighter and detective and resistance fighter and prophet and now visionary and team leader. Superman is much more than those two activities, and it's about time his live-action storytellers fully realize the character, in the context of a shared universe with multiple superheroes and villains.
what??? you call that a major problem???
i think the major problem is you guys want him to do anything & everything.
a good superman story... to me... is how he grows and we can see the development of relationship with the people around him. and BvS just delivered that. his relationship and development with lois lane, martha kent, perry white, the people, batman and lex luthor... simple wonderfully done.

believe me... the saving act and caring act weren't done in an apparent manner is the major problem...
 
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Superman vs the Elite isn't sci-fi or did you skip through that part? It deals with the very stuff people complain about when it comes to superman, namely whether an altruistic, colorful character can work and the answer is ANY character (dark or light, serious or otherwise) can work if written properly.

The brainiac storyline on the other hand is sci-fi yeah and it's never been done before with superman, not on film atleast and if done well then it will work cos otherwise it's same old same old especially with a character whose had no less than 7 live action films. Look at Thor the dark world, the best part of that movie was the Asgard stuff and superman's story is as much sci-fi as it is earth bound, infact that's the beauty of the character you can go in so many directions with it, the sky is the limit if the writer has a semblance of imagination.



Yeah there is, watch Superman 1 and 2, watch STAS, watch Superman's 2 part appearance on Supergirl and watch superman vs the Elite and you'll see a charismatic, optimistic, intelligent superman, I really don't know why the concept is so hard for you grasp.

i have watched all, except for supergirl II. STAS has done the brainiac and city shrinking before i think or at least Minion I has already done it. (sorta)
watched THor II b4. but i can't recall anything about the Asgard best part... is it the panoramic cityscape??? only remember they were kept transporting to one place to another... LOL can't believe we are getting Thor III. thanks to the avengers effect i guess.

superman vs Elite animation is kinda bad... too gross to me. i guess i have problem to see superman have trouble to fight with just some kinda of "Xmen" it definitely isn't the story i wanna see in a superman movie.

giphy.gif


don't get me wrong. i want a charismatic, optimistic, intelligent superman too. at the same time, i don't want a 2D superman too.
a superman making mistake, a superman having his doubt moment... a superman who looks bad once in a while... i'm totally ok with that too.
 
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Superman's still not getting the shaft. JL is going to set the entire DCEU up for another "extended" era.
 
i have watched all, except for supergirl II. STAS has done the brainiac and city shrinking before i think or at least Minion I has already done it. (sorta)
watched THor II b4. but i can't recall anything about the Asgard best part... is it the panoramic cityscape??? only remember they were kept transporting to one place to another... LOL can't believe we are getting Thor III. thanks to the avengers effect i guess.

superman vs Elite animation is kinda bad... too gross to me. i guess i have problem to see superman have trouble to fight with just some kinda of "Xmen" it definitely isn't the story i wanna see in a superman movie.

don't get me wrong. i want a charismatic, optimistic, intelligent superman too. at the same time, i don't want a 2D superman too.
a superman making mistake, a superman having his doubt moment... a superman who looks bad once in a while... i'm totally ok with that too.

Absolutely, like in Winter Soldier, Cap's allegiance was tested and doubt sets in. But then we see him fight for his ideals and challenges that which he sees as wrong and needs to be stopped. Yet, above all, he does the right thing even if it's not clear how right off the bat.

A Superman that is in line like that is something a lot of people can get behind.

Yet we have a Superman who is unsure for 2 films. While Cap also had doubt yet resolved those issues in 1 film. In my opinion, prolonging the same doubt in more than one film, without a significant angle, just makes the character feel weaker.

Let's move on from this mopey-doubtful Superman into other aspects of the hero.
 
It's much more than that, though. So much of this conversation has revolved around how much screen time Superman needs to have, and whether or not he should do this particular thing, when in fact I think there's a much bigger issue with regards to what Snyder/WB/Hollywood is and isn't willing to do with Superman. One major problem with BvS is that, in a film arguably about the use of power in pursuit of justice, the film essentially tells us that the ONLY things Superman does are rescue people from disasters and defeat alien threats. That's a very limited scope for a character who briefly tries to combat actual human injustice. Just compare that to Batman who in the space of two films is crime-fighter and detective and resistance fighter and prophet and now visionary and team leader. Superman is much more than those two activities, and it's about time his live-action storytellers fully realize the character, in the context of a shared universe with multiple superheroes and villains.

The film is about powerlessness and how people cope when they can't stop every tragedy, fix every problem, or predict every outcome. It is a film where almost every character undergoes an Existential Hero arc. Those who overcome their existential crisis are heroes, and those that do not are villains. Superman overcomes his by focusing outward on the injustice and brutality of Batman's treatment of the ordinary people of Gotham, seeking advice from those he cares about, embracing love as as source of strength and inspiration in the darkness and nightmares, and choosing to have faith in fallen man by trusting Batman to save Martha and humanity to be worthy of his sacrifice despite their uncertainty and even hatred.
 
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i have watched all, except for supergirl II. STAS has done the brainiac and city shrinking before i think or at least Minion I has already done it. (sorta)
watched THor II b4. but i can't recall anything about the Asgard best part... is it the panoramic cityscape??? only remember they were kept transporting to one place to another... LOL can't believe we are getting Thor III. thanks to the avengers effect i guess.

superman vs Elite animation is kinda bad... too gross to me. i guess i have problem to see superman have trouble to fight with just some kinda of "Xmen" it definitely isn't the story i wanna see in a superman movie.

giphy.gif

STAS didn't do the bottled city, but superman unbound did as did LOSH cartoon.
I thought the Asgard part of Thor II was the best part of the movie and so did alot of others but if you didn't like it then that's ok. Different strokes and all.
Superman vs the Elite had terrible animation I agree but I really liked the story and if you think it's just a superman vs 'some sort of x-men' then all I can say is that you missed the point of the story so I suggest you pick up Action #775 and have a good read.

don't get me wrong. i want a charismatic, optimistic, intelligent superman too. at the same time, i don't want a 2D superman too.
a superman making mistake, a superman having his doubt moment... a superman who looks bad once in a while... i'm totally ok with that too.

You seem to have a problem with looking at things from the extremes! Just because I (and ALOT of fans) want a charismatic, optimistic, intelligent superman doesn't mean Superman has to be turned into some infallible god aka a 2D character, just like wanting a '3D' superman doesn't mean that character has to mope for almost the entirety of 2 long movies! balance (there is that word again) is key here and it can be done when superman is placed in the hands of a capable story teller who appreciates the nuances of the character and there are plenty of capable directors who want to take a crack at the character so I'm hopeful.
 
And yet somehow Superman comics have continued to sell for decades. One problem is that most writers/film makers only look to Donner's version, and don't really consult the comics. Donner's version - as fast as the Flash and as strong or weak as the plot requires - is hard to write. However, the fact that many stories have done it I think proves it's not as hard as some writers initially suppose.

From an action standpoint, Superman is somewhat challenging, but so are all flying, super-strong characters. In that regard I do think adapting anime fighting convention was a good move on Snyder's part. We'd do well to keep in mind that most of the credible criticisms of this Superman have not focused on the action, but on the characterization. And in that regard, Superman is not hard to write.

I've long believed that the challenge in writing good Superman stories isn't that he's too powerful or too perfect, but that he doesnt have enough around him to make for interesting stories. I think it's useful to compare Superman with Batman. Yes, Batman is a darker character, and therefore inherently a bigger draw, but Wonder Woman and MCU films prove that lighter characters can also draw a crowd. Superman has also been just as complex a character as Batman (as BvS tried to show), and so that isn't it either. No, I think what makes the difference is the richness of Batman's environment, the complexity of Batman's opposition (both personal and thematic), and the prevalence of multiple supporting heroes, villains and civilians that together embody the complexity of human experience.

Broadly speaking, Superman lacks this comprehensive development, and it's not because he's harder to write. No, the issue is that Superman is too often pulled in two different directions: one that wants to keep him as simplistic as he was pre-Byrne, and the other that wants to make him more complex by entirely deconstructing him. There's a third pressure from Hollywood that wants to keep Superman as a sort of modern-day, secular Jesus in New York.

Superman needs a better utilized supporting cast, a richer environment, and more complex villains who both directly challenge Superman's values (he needs a more specific purpose) and speak to the human condition. Get all of those elements, plus good action, without losing the essence and persona of Superman, and I think you'd have better quality and better received Superman films.

Edit: Just to give a few examples, some of which have been mentioned here, this is where utilizing the Daily Planet more (and Clark Kent) and allies could really help. Yes, Batman has gadgets and tactics. But as you note, he's also a detective, and has an important detective ally. Clark is an investigative reporter, not too dissimilar from a detective. Use that more integrally in a story, rather than having Clark serve as a commercial break or the Daily Planet as mere awestruck or imperiled observers. Superman has also had many allies; use them to make up for all those tactics Batman uses. And perhaps give Superman an organization and "idea" to challenge him, something that not only requires more people to beat, but also something that needs to be overcome by more than just brute force. Superman can be more than just his fists, it just requires someone willing to actually do something more with the character.




Good points. And I meant to mention that was one way they could make Superman more interesting. Focus on Clark and specifically his job as an investigative reporter, along with Lois. Big mistake chopping some of that out of the TC of BvS


Imagine, for instance, an alternate reality version of BvS where there is a case that both Clark and Batman are separately investigating, similar to how the Fincher film Zodiac showed the investigation from the detective and the reporter's separate points of view, that emphasizes the different ideals, values, and tactics of the two separate characters, and eventually brings them to clash. Just leave the Doomsday Death Of Superman story for a separate follow up film, essentially making a MoS trilogy leading into JL



It definitely requires outside the box thinking, but that's something that comic writers have a lot more leeway on. A big budget 2 hour Blockbuster writer has pressure on him to include a big world ending threat and CGI slugfest


Still can be done. My point is just that the character of Superman I think makes it much harder on writers than other characters
 
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Going forward after Justice League, it's important that Superman's dynamic is one of an established hero embraced by the whole world. We should see an expanded and extensive rogues gallery, and if he crosses over it should be in a way that feels like it works. Kind of like how Steve Rogers has been used in the MCU.

The next solo MOS film should have Brainiac as the bad guy. A cosmic, sci-fi heavy adventure mixed with personal stakes with Clark and Lois upping their relationship (maybe a marriage, seeing as how he was about to propose before the events of BvS).
Injustice-2-Brainiac.jpg

His rivalry with his archnemesis can't be forgotten, however. I have a feeling the events of BvS and JL will shape Luthor into more of the controlled and patient mastermind we've seen in other stories. As such, with his knowledge of Superman's secrets Luthor could be an overarching villain over more than one film, in MOS 3 Luthor can create Metallo as an exploitation of the kryptonite that nearly killed Superman in BvS
Metallo_%28DC_Comics%29.png


Finally, an adaptation of the Public Enemies storyline would bring Superman and Luthor's rivalry to a head. Luthor obviously won't be president in the DCEU after being exposed the way he was in BvS, so perhaps he could blackmail the president or find ways to brainwash him to do his dirty work. In a mix of Public Enemies and the recent Rebirth arc where Luthor tries to become a new Superman, Luthor could build himself a battlesuit and try to take Superman's place while Superman is turned into a fugitive.

Then we would finally get a no-holds-barred showdown between the two arch-foes.
Superman-Rebirth-Luthor-Action-Comics.jpg
 
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Superman's still not getting the shaft. JL is going to set the entire DCEU up for another "extended" era.

This poster says differently. :o

Justice-League-Japan.jpg


Man, when all is said and done...even IF the film ends up being decent on the superman front, I think I'm always going to view this marketing approach regarding the promotional posters as absolute crap.

Honestly, if the marketing department's only defense for excluding Superman out of these things is because "he's dead" at the moment, then I blame the creative team in charge who thought that killing Superman on the eve of JL was a good idea.

I mean what do Superman fans have to look at to get excited about when there's really nothing to savor on, sans a shot where you can barely see Superman's shoulder where his cape his attached as he talks to Alfred...or the non-important images of him on popcorn cups and calendars?
 
This poster says differently. :o

Justice-League-Japan.jpg


Man, when all is said and done...even IF the film ends up being decent on the superman front, I think I'm always going to view this marketing approach regarding the promotional posters as absolute crap.

Honestly, if the marketing department's only defense for excluding Superman out of these things is because "he's dead" at the moment, then I blame the creative team in charge who thought that killing Superman on the eve of JL was a good idea.

I mean what do Superman fans have to look at to get excited about when there's really nothing to savor on, sans a shot where you can barely see Superman's shoulder where his cape his attached as he talks to Alfred...or the non-important images of him on popcorn cups and calendars?

I don't think you're ever going to be happy. At all.
 
I don't think you're ever going to be happy. At all.

Not really. I mean in a more ideal world when it comes to comic book films, I think I could have tolerated, if not be happily content, if they had gone about this in a similar manner that Pirates 3 had when it came to Jack Sparrow's return.

Despite having "died" in his second film, he was still prominently promoted for the third film and even though we didn't get to him until the start of the second act of the third film....once we did, he was thrown back into the forefront with everyone else.

If they were going to do that with superman in JL, then I'd be more than happy.

However no posters....no footage...and most likely limited interactions with the group doesn't exactly scream as the most exciting time to be a Superman fan for the JL movie.
 
It's not that I intentionally disregard how others feel about this take on Superman. It's more of a case where I just can't wrap my head around their viewpoints.

I mean I have really tried to understand others when they say that not having superman present in anything for the promotion of this movie is a good thing. And to be fair, I have actually come to somewhat understand, if not agree, with how it might be better not to show any superman footage at least.

I have so tried to understand the excitement of just seeing superman come back just to kick some ass.

But at the end of the day, I just can't understand those viewpoints at all. It's not that I'm trying to mock the people who have those viewpoints but I just can't understand or agree with why people would be content with those options.

I mean, is really asking for a superman film where he has some mini arc of his own and where he has more to do other than show up for a action sequence in the end really asking for that much? Is asking to see him have some meaningful interactions with this group as opposed to having to wait for a few more years really that demanding?

Honestly, after the whole fiasco with BvS, I would have thought that everyone would want A LOT more for the character in this film.



For me, personally, I just don't really care about the promotions vs the actual product. It's just posters and trailers. They'll still make Superman collectibles associated with the film, I'm sure. I don't remember the promotions for a particular Game Of Thrones season, but I imagine those probably left out a particular fan favorite character whose circumstances were similar to Supes' in between seasons
 
Not really. I mean in a more ideal world when it comes to comic book films, I think I could have tolerated, if not be happily content, if they had gone about this in a similar manner that Pirates 3 had when it came to Jack Sparrow's return.

Despite having "died" in his second film, he was still prominently promoted for the third film and even though we didn't get to him until the start of the second act of the third film....once we did, he was thrown back into the forefront with everyone else.

If they were going to do that with superman in JL, then I'd be more than happy.

However no posters....no footage...and most likely limited interactions with the group doesn't exactly scream as the most exciting time to be a Superman fan for the JL movie.

I don't think you'll ever be fully happy because you seem to have some very specific one and only way you want this whole Superman character and situation handled. And I don't think you'll ever get 100% what you have cooked up in your mind, thus you'll always be somewhat disappointed.
 
I don't think you'll ever be fully happy because you seem to have some very specific one and only way you want this whole Superman character and situation handled. And I don't think you'll ever get 100% what you have cooked up in your mind, thus you'll always be somewhat disappointed.

And what unrealistic expectations do I supposedly have in mind for the character?

What, am I the only one here that wants a film with Superman that's actually both critically and financially successful? And am I the only one here that doesn't want Superman to be featured as a supporting/minor on-screen character for the JL? Am I the only one that wanted Superman to be featured on the posters as well?

People make it sound like I have unrealistic expectations for the character or that only I want these things to happen for the character.

Heck, MOS wasn't exactly my cup of tea but I learned to enjoy and appreciate it for what it was worth.

I guarantee you that you would have Batman fans saying the same thing if Batman was getting this treatment.
 
Why don't you just take MoS and BvS and have that be your "duology?" The DCEU can be just those 2 movies for you. Think about it, you don't need to suffer and watch this ****

Same way Terminator for me is part 1 and Part 2. I deny the existence of Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions or anything after the first Pirates.

This could just be it for you, you're done, Superman is dead. Some day someone will reboot it and maybe that will be more your cup of tea.
 
Well if I went with that notion, then it would just be MOS for me since BvS is one film that I can't stand at all.lol

But the only reason why I'm planning on seeing this film (at some point, not sure if I will see it in theaters...depends on what's spoiled about Superman's role beforehand) is because I just want closure for Superman's arc that was started in MOS. It may not be the best closure but it's still something.
 
The Reeve's films still exist too if you wanna watch them again and enjoy them. Or the old live action tv shows or the animated animated shows. There's lots of Superman to enjoy. This DCEU Superman is clearly not your cup of tea.
 
The Reeve's films still exist too if you wanna watch them again and enjoy them. Or the old live action tv shows or the animated animated shows. There's lots of Superman to enjoy. This DCEU Superman is clearly not your cup of tea.

But that's the irony here because even with some of the missteps in MOS, I still very much enjoyed Henry's' first entry as Superman....enough to keep me around to at least see this through until the very end of this (JL) film.

That's why this whole situation is frustrating because BvS and JL really injured that interpretation imho.

Snyder talked about how Superman was the "chairman" of the JL back when he was promoting MOS and ever since then, Superman went from being the chairman to a last minute ally in this film, who will not be promoted because of a story line that most people felt shouldn't have been executed this early.

If "Flashpoint" ends up serving as some kind of catalyst that helps get the DCEU back on track where we get another solo Superman film that isn't controversial, that isn't bashed by an majority of fans and audiences, and breathes new life into the character where he actually becomes a integral part to the JL team in the sequel...then I think I could come back to this Superman someday again.
 
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