James Bond: 007 - Spectre - Part 10

[redfirebird2008]

Third act is really bad. First two acts are really good. All in all it's the weakest of the Craig Bond movies, but still passable big budget entertainment.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I think there are four acts. The Spectre base and the London finale can be separate acts. So, you agree QOS is better?

 

[redfirebird2008]

I think there are four acts. The Spectre base and the London finale can be separate acts. So, you agree QOS is better?

Okay, then both of the last two acts are really bad.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think there are four acts. The Spectre base and the London finale can be separate acts. So, you agree QOS is better?

Double finale for the fail.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

In the script, as Bond and Lea rides off into the sunset, his final words are "we have all the time in the world". I wonder why they took that line out. Maybe they realized that this film is no way a worthy remake of OHMSS.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

In the script, as Bond and Lea rides off into the sunset, his final words are "we have all the time in the world". I wonder why they took that line out. Maybe they realized that this film is no way a worthy remake of OHMSS.

They wanted to make OHMSS but chickened out. You can feel it in the movie.

 

[Doctor Jones]

But, that isn't how RT works. Doctor, don't do this too me.


Oh, that would have been cool. I am still trying to figure out why [BLACKOUT]they didn't take his watch[/BLACKOUT].


That is a fine way of looking at it. I personally just saw it as him being desperate to find Franz, but I like your view of it.


I put it in my top 10 Bond films, but I also feel like Bond has a lot bad movies. It goes ahead of all the films from DAF through DAD, with the exception of GoldenEye, kind of by default. It is better then YOLT. Now the question is it better then Goldfinger, Dr. No, Thunderball and QoS in my mind. It doesn't touch my top five of CR, Skyfall, OHMSS, FRWL and GoldenEye.

I guess I don't understand RT so much then. Educate me: what does the 62% mean then? I get not every rotten review is necessarily negative though.

A lot of bad Bond films, but it kind of puts things into perspective. Is this the greatest Bond film? No, but it's nowhere near some of the worst. It's no excuse for making a lesser film of course.

It's not as good as Thunderball, FRWL, and Goldfinger. But I'd put it ahead of Dr. No. I love Dr. No's two thirds. The third act is kind of boring.

It's leagues ahead of QOS and the difference between this movie and OHMSS is that I'm not bored by it. Jesus Christ, Lazenby's Bond is so bland it kills the movie. I get there's great directing, but I still don't get this sudden retroactive praise because Lazenby just isn't a good Bond.

I'm actually glad they

Spoiler

didn't go with the OHMSS ending. That already happened. Granted, I wouldn't have minded it because OHMSS's great ending is hampered by Lazenby's Bond so I would have taken this over that but I'm glad they didn't repeat themselves. It was a surprising twist where it ended with Bond being happy where the Bond girl didn't die for once.

In fact I liked how not a single Bond girl died in this movie.

 

[The Chris]

I guess I don't understand RT so much then. Educate me: what does the 62% mean then? I get not every rotten review is necessarily negative though.

A lot of bad Bond films, but it kind of puts things into perspective. Is this the greatest Bond film? No, but it's nowhere near some of the worst. It's no excuse for making a lesser film of course.

It's not as good as Thunderball, FRWL, and Goldfinger. But I'd put it ahead of Dr. No. I love Dr. No's two thirds. The third act is kind of boring.

It's leagues ahead of QOS and the difference between this movie and OHMSS is that I'm not bored by it. Jesus Christ, Lazenby's Bond is so bland it kills the movie. I get there's great directing, but I still don't get this sudden retroactive praise because Lazenby just isn't a good Bond.

I'm actually glad they

Spoiler

didn't go with the OHMSS ending. That already happened. Granted, I wouldn't have minded it because OHMSS's great ending is hampered by Lazenby's Bond so I would have taken this over that but I'm glad they didn't repeat themselves. It was a surprising twist where it ended with Bond being happy where the Bond girl didn't die for once.

In fact I liked how not a single Bond girl died in this movie.

That last bit you said is a first for the Craig movies too I think. Usually

Spoiler

The woman he sleeps with dies

I liked that as well. Though I'm a sicko so if Craig returns I would start the next one with

Spoiler

Swan being either killed or hospitalized. I look at this one as the origin of Blofeld. So now they can really make people see why he's Bond's archenemy in the next one

 

[Octoberist]

RT is kinda done with a curve. So you can say a 62 is more like a C minus.

 

[Doctor Jones]

That last bit you said is a first for the Craig movies too I think. Usually

Spoiler

The woman he sleeps with dies

I liked that as well. Though I'm a sicko so if Craig returns I would start the next one with

Spoiler

Swan being either killed or hospitalized. I look at this one as the origin of Blofeld. So now they can really make people see why he's Bond's archenemy in the next one

I think that'd be a huge waste. Like I said before, they have ripe opportunity here to do something different.

Spoiler

A Bond film where the man is actually married and living a normal life only to be swept out of it with his marriage still intact yet always at stake is something totally new. Lea is a good actress and to better build upon their relationship which seems to be getting a mixed response, explore their marriage. There are pros and cons to Bond's choice at the end of this film.

They can easily **** this up though. It's like a horror film. Throw out the old cast with the hot, new cast and so on. Here it just would seem disingenuous after they spent a whole movie trying to earn Bond settling down.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I guess I don't understand RT so much then. Educate me: what does the 62% mean then? I get not every rotten review is necessarily negative though.

The percentage score is basically how many recommend it. When they submit their reviews, the writer themselves decide if it is fresh or not, devoid of all other things. So it is less a score of the quality of the movie, and whether the critic would recommend it or not. So saying it deserves to be in the 80s, is kind of like saying an arbitray amount of critics need to like it, for whatever reason.

The SPECTRE average score, which is out of 10,is 6.4 out of 10. That would be the score you would have beef with. QoS has a higher RT percentage at 65%, but a lower average score, at 6.1 out of 10.

A lot of bad Bond films, but it kind of puts things into perspective. Is this the greatest Bond film? No, but it's nowhere near some of the worst. It's no excuse for making a lesser film of course.

I think I am just super disappointed. I might like it more later, but right now it feels like a lot of wasted potential. Which sucks, because Craig is by far my favorite in the role and I feel like the combination of the length between films and the problems they had on the production for QoS has robbed me of more Craig as Bond.

It's not as good as Thunderball, FRWL, and Goldfinger. But I'd put it ahead of Dr. No. I love Dr. No's two thirds. The third act is kind of boring.

I'll have to get back to you on that.

It's leagues ahead of QOS and the difference between this movie and OHMSS is that I'm not bored by it. Jesus Christ, Lazenby's Bond is so bland it kills the movie. I get there's great directing, but I still don't get this sudden retroactive praise because Lazenby just isn't a good Bond.[/QUOTE]
I am a Lazenby fan. I enjoy him in the role, more then Connery. I just think I have grown out Connery's lazy charm and how he treated women. I really enjoy Lazenby's relationship with Tracy. It shows a more tender side of Bond, and he could also kick all kinds of ass.

Spoiler

I'm actually glad they didn't go with the OHMSS ending. That already happened. Granted, I wouldn't have minded it because OHMSS's great ending is hampered by Lazenby's Bond so I would have taken this over that but I'm glad they didn't repeat themselves. It was a surprising twist where it ended with Bond being happy where the Bond girl didn't die for once.

In fact I liked how not a single Bond girl died in this movie.

That was definitely new.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

RT is kinda done with a curve. So you can say a 62 is more like a C minus.

Depends on the average score.

 

[The Chris]

I think that'd be a huge waste. Like I said before, they have ripe opportunity here to do something different.

Spoiler

A Bond film where the man is actually married and living a normal life only to be swept out of it with his marriage still intact yet always at stake is something totally new. Lea is a good actress and to better build upon their relationship which seems to be getting a mixed response, explore their marriage. There are pros and cons to Bond's choice at the end of this film.

They can easily **** this up though. It's like a horror film. Throw out the old cast with the hot, new cast and so on. Here it just would seem disingenuous after they spent a whole movie trying to earn Bond settling down.

I get you. It is definitely different. We'll see what they do.

 

[MadVillainy]

Just got back from this. Wasn't a big fan.
It's not horrible. I just wasnt that interested.

Craig and the cast of course is good. The action is cool for the most part, not as good as some of the other movies, but still good. I also think Writing on the Wall sounded/felt better with the opening sequence. I didnt like it much when I first heard it.

Other than that I didn't like it.
First and foremost I was just bored most of the time. The pacing was way off.
I felt that the villains (Bautista and Waltz) were VERY underused. Especially Waltz. Bautista was the coolest character to me and him and Craig's fight was my favorite action scene I wish there was more of him
In addition to being underused I thought Waltz's character and motivation was silly. [BLACKOUT]I thought the whole Blofield thing was kinda lame too. Well at least how they did it[/BLACKOUT]
The Bond girls were kinda lame to me. Bellucci was underused and they tried too hard with Seydoux. They really tried to push that she was "the one" for Bond but I just didnt buy it They had chemistry, but I just didn't think it worked. When she told Bond "I Love You" I just scoffed.

Anyway, this isnt terrible but it's biggest sin was being boring to me. And that's honestly my biggest no-no for a movie. Just don't be boring.

 

[Doctor Jones]

The percentage score is basically how many recommend it. When they submit their reviews, the writer themselves decide if it is fresh or not, devoid of all other things. So it is less a score of the quality of the movie, and whether the critic would recommend it or not. So saying it deserves to be in the 80s, is kind of like saying an arbitray amount of critics need to like it, for whatever reason.

The SPECTRE average score, which is out of 10,is 6.4 out of 10. That would be the score you would have beef with. QoS has a higher RT percentage at 65%, but a lower average score, at 6.1 out of 10.


I think I am just super disappointed. I might like it more later, but right now it feels like a lot of wasted potential. Which sucks, because Craig is by far my favorite in the role and I feel like the combination of the length between films and the problems they had on the production for QoS has robbed me of more Craig as Bond.


I'll have to get back to you on that.

It's leagues ahead of QOS and the difference between this movie and OHMSS is that I'm not bored by it. Jesus Christ, Lazenby's Bond is so bland it kills the movie. I get there's great directing, but I still don't get this sudden retroactive praise because Lazenby just isn't a good Bond.

I am a Lazenby fan. I enjoy him in the role, more then Connery. I just think I have grown out Connery's lazy charm and how he treated women. I really enjoy Lazenby's relationship with Tracy. It shows a more tender side of Bond, and he could also kick all kinds of ass.

Spoiler

I'm actually glad they didn't go with the OHMSS ending. That already happened. Granted, I wouldn't have minded it because OHMSS's great ending is hampered by Lazenby's Bond so I would have taken this over that but I'm glad they didn't repeat themselves. It was a surprising twist where it ended with Bond being happy where the Bond girl didn't die for once.


That was definitely new.

I see. So it's just based on a subjective recommendation?

That being said, if Star Wars even gets an 89% on RT, eyes will twitch from some fanboys.

Could this movie have been better, delivering another suckerpunch after Skyfall's success? Absolutely. I wish I could struggle with my ranking of this movie like I do between SF and CR. But I gotta say, as surprised as I am about the RT score, I'm not totally surprised about it not being as good as Skyfall. Remember back to our conversation this time last year. I kind of called this. I sensed it when they announced the thing. I'm not rubbing anything in people's faces at all, I'm just saying this was in the cards for me.

I think too, I expected a movie that was worse after hearing those initial reviews. But I was surprised it was nothing that I really feared. Everything I feared about the movie wasn't that bad to me, and despite the flaws, I enjoyed it, and the flaws were small enough it doesn't deter my enjoyment of the thing.

I would have preferred to see Connery handle that last scene in OHMSS. It would have been outside his Bond, but it would have given him a great arc, considering everything. Connery felt real yet idyllic to me all at once. He got his ass kicked by Red Grant but then turned things around that I just loved.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They want Craig back. Hopefully they get him.

 

[MadVillainy]

I would not mind Craig coming back for another.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I see. So it's just based on a subjective recommendation?

That being said, if Star Wars even gets an 89% on RT, eyes will twitch from some fanboys.

Oh I know, I deal with this all the time in RT threads. My stance doesn't change, no matter the film.

Could this movie have been better, delivering another suckerpunch after Skyfall's success? Absolutely. I wish I could struggle with my ranking of this movie like I do between SF and CR. But I gotta say, as surprised as I am about the RT score, I'm not totally surprised about it not being as good as Skyfall. Remember back to our conversation this time last year. I kind of called this. I sensed it when they announced the thing. I'm not rubbing anything in people's faces at all, I'm just saying this was in the cards for me.

I think too, I expected a movie that was worse after hearing those initial reviews. But I was surprised it was nothing that I really feared. Everything I feared about the movie wasn't that bad to me, and despite the flaws, I enjoyed it, and the flaws were small enough it doesn't deter my enjoyment of the thing.

I had a lot of fears, but I never thought I be as bored as I was. I was just, bored.

I would have preferred to see Connery handle that last scene in OHMSS. It would have been outside his Bond, but it would have given him a great arc, considering everything. Connery felt real yet idyllic to me all at once. He got his ass kicked by Red Grant but then turned things around that I just loved.

Connery was so bored by the time of YOLT, I can't imagine him doing it nearly as well as Lazenby did.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Craig might be tired of the franchise, but he is still doing a great job. Very professional actor. Not like he mailed it in with this film, even though the story and dialogue stunk in that third act.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I think Quantum of Solace may have had the better script. Which is astonishing as that picture was gutted by the writer's strike.

No way, Quantum was utter garbage, Spectre at least had a good story the problem was that the web of the plots execution wasn't seamless like it was in Skyfall or even Mission Impossible :Rogue Nation .

 

[Golgo-13]

I think there are four acts. The Spectre base and the London finale can be separate acts. So, you agree QOS is better?

I didn't like how the desert base act ended, and then they were suddenly back in London. It was too abrupt, with Bond coming out shooting snipers as though he was bullet proof and just heads up to the copter with Swann.

I just finished watching QoS and i have concluded that overall it is a better movie than Spectre.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think Quantum of Solace may have had the better script. Which is astonishing as that picture was gutted by the writer's strike.

I'd have to rewatch QoS. But I remember at least with QoS I wasn't dreadfully bored.

 

[Golgo-13]

I've been watching it quite frequently lately and it seems to grow on me the more i watch it.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I've been watching it quite frequently lately and it seems to grow on me the more i watch it.

It's an easier re-watch than any of the other Craig movies due to the short runtime. There is something to be said for a movie that knows when to end instead of dragging on and on.

 

[Mysteryman]

In the script, as Bond and Lea rides off into the sunset, his final words are "we have all the time in the world". I wonder why they took that line out. Maybe they realized that this film is no way a worthy remake of OHMSS.[/QUOTE Perhaps they feared that keeping that line in would have locked them into following the OHMSS plotline for the next film.