James Bond: 007 - Spectre - Part 10

[The Guard]

And they couldn't have had a few more agents along to protect M AND the trail of breadcrumbs because...

The only reason that plan makes any sense is because Bond and M know they have to take care of personal business, and want it to be such.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Where on Earth do you get that out of what I just said?

Being in charge and every single person in the room being afraid of you are very different things.

He ruled through fear. Again, emphasized by how the scene played out.

I'm sorry they didn't hop in a time machine and go back and insert small hints at the events of this movie, not knowing they would have the right to use SPECTRE years later, into the previous films, to satisfy your black and white mindset about what a character in the future film would be thinking and wanting during those films. I really am.

It's a movie. These are issues you run into making movies. Granted, these are issues you assume exist...

They made that decision. There was literally no reason to retcon it. They could of had the same general idea without trying to tie everything in the previous movies together. But taking Blofeld back to Bond's childhood and the first three movies was an unnecessary choice that just made everything convoluted.

This is also one of the reasons why SPECTRE itself doesn't have much story. IT is too busy relying on what happened to craft its own story. Very much like QoS.

Bond has continuously messed with SPECTRE's plans, as seen in the opening PTS. Blofeld now wants Bond dead for that. Simple.

Again, you assume that Blofeld didn't, at some point, want Bond dead. Seeing as how he wants him dead in SPECTRE, I don't see that as a stretch.

I assume nothing. I am listening to Blofeld's words. He was the one who said he has been torturing Bond for years.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And they couldn't have had a few more agents along to protect M AND the trail of breadcrumbs because...

The only reason that plan makes any sense is because Bond and M know they have to take care of personal business, and want it to be such.

Because more agents means Silva doesn't show up.

 

[The Guard]

Because more agents means Silva doesn't show up.

But Silva wouldn't have known there were more agents, if they were cleverly transported/concealed.

He only knew where Bond was in the first place because of the "breadcrumbs" Q left, per the film.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Waltz likes to add extra cheese to his damn acting when not working with Quentin.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well that's because Waltz's father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. His mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet.

 

[antonydelfini]

But Silva wouldn't have known there were more agents, if they were cleverly transported/concealed.

He only knew where Bond was in the first place because of the "breadcrumbs" Q left, per the film.

I remember M stated when they were on the car that she doesnt want anybody else to die for her and be caught in the crossfire anymore.

 

[Zantera]

An organisation like SPECTRE works best if they set it up over several movies with Bond interfering with their plans and eventually facing the leader. I don't remember much of the early movies (it has been a while since I saw them), but I believe Spectre was a recurring organisation that showed up at least twice? (I might be wrong)

Anyway, the retcon in Spectre, trying to tell us that it was SPECTRE behind things all along, and that the mystery organisation was pulling strings in the darkness for 3 movies.. it just didn't work.

 

[TeeKay]

You know that the writing is poor when people have to keep coming up with "maybes" to try and explain things because the movie cannot be bothered to.

And chalk me up as someone who's also disappointed in Moneypenny's role here, especially given what was set up in SF.

Yep.

 

[TeeKay]

[b?Ambiguity is not necessarily poor writing.

Are you kidding me? In this movie's case it totally is poor writing.

It's actually rather clever. They wanted to tie things to SPECTRE, but by not presenting details, they allow for open interpretation of exactly what that entails and means.

Clever? This is not Nolan's Inception. This movie is as straightforward as you can go. You're trying to give credit where it's not due. The script was poorly written which leads YOU to try to fill gaps in and try to connect dots where they're aren't present. There was nothing clever about this. Unnecessary retcons and trying to connect things ended up bringing down the film a lot.

 

[Frodo]

I don't think making the connection with the other films is poor writing, as much as alot of people don't like that they did the retcon to begin with , and really, its seems to be the Skyfall retcon in relation to SF that people are really complaining about.

The majority of the critiques about this film in general ,are judging the film in relation to Skyfall as opposed to even the other Craig films, let alone the 19 other Bond films.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

IMO, SPECTRE is a lot better then all the Moore movies, the Dalton movies, 3 of the 4 Brosnan movies, YOLT and DAF. But that is because I find them all to be mediocre to awful. On the level established by the best in the series, like CR, Skyfall, FRWL, and OHMSS, it falls quite short imo.

 

[def28]

I thought Spectre was one of the more boring Bond films out there personally. The jumbled and contrived way of conencting everything definitely didn't help it. From a script pov the thing was a mess and just kinda dull imo. Beautiful looking film though.

Not the worst but I'd rather watch more then a few of the Dalton, Moore and Brosnan films over it.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I found a good chunk of Skyfall to be boring. I haven't seen Spectre yet but by all accounts its worse... I'll be going in with very low expectations and some caffeine in my system.

 

[Zantera]

I'd say Spectre is in the mid-tier of Bond films. Not at the top, but maybe around the 12-10 mark.

 

[BobJM]

I found a good chunk of Skyfall to be boring. I haven't seen Spectre yet but by all accounts its worse... I'll be going in with very low expectations and some caffeine in my system.

I was very bored by Skyfall as well (the movie falls apart for me once Bond brings Silva back to London).

That's why I enjoyed Spectre very much. Low expectations and a return to "classic" Bond elements. I honestly did not think this movie dragged at all. Found myself entertained throughout.

 

[Frodo]

I felt both SF and SP had their flaws but were both pretty good Bond films. They're different Bond films, and in many ways SF really isn't a Bond film in the traditional sense, and it's an outlier in relation to the rest of the films. That's probably why it was able to cross over beyond just fans of the film series.

If anything Spectre is the norm of the Bond films , not some deviation , which may be why alot of the non-Bond fans who loved SF are so disappointed with Spectre. It is more business as usual and really isn't all that different quality-wise from many of the Bond films imo.

Its just that the last film was basically an Oscar level picture, which the overwhelming majority of Bond films aren't. That may have created a new standard for what Bond films should be in some people's minds, but the reality is , that's really not what Bond films were meant to be.

I look at Spectre in the context of all of the Bond films not just one Bond film, which is why I liked it. Its quintessential Bond, more so than Skyfall imo.

 

[Boy Scout]

Seeing this in just under a half hour. It'll be the first Bond movie I see in theaters.

 

[Mysteryman]

I felt both SF and SP had their flaws but were both pretty good Bond films. They're different Bond films, and in many ways SF really isn't a Bond film in the traditional sense, and it's an outlier in relation to the rest of the films. That's probably why it was able to cross over beyond just fans of the film series.

If anything Spectre is the norm of the Bond films , not some deviation , which may be why alot of the non-Bond fans who loved SF are so disappointed with Spectre. It is more business as usual and really isn't all that different quality-wise from many of the Bond films imo.

Its just that the last film was basically an Oscar level picture, which the overwhelming majority of Bond films aren't. That may have created a new standard for what Bond films should be in some people's minds, but the reality is , that's really not what Bond films were meant to be.

I look at Spectre in the context of all of the Bond films not just one Bond film, which is why I liked it. Its quintessential Bond, more so than Skyfall imo.

That's almost like saying Skyfall was accidentally excellent and Spectre is the apology for that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's almost like saying Skyfall was accidentally excellent and Spectre is the apology for that.

I feel like saying things like "classical Bond elements" is almost excusing bad storytelling and filmmaking in general for the series.

Also, I always feel like saying "classical Bond elements" ignores the best Bond films. Because movies like CR, FRWL, OHMSS and Skyfall all did their own thing. They all had elements, but most certainly didn't depend on them. They didn't craft the entire film around them. GoldenEye is different from the other Bond movies of that era. The Goldfinger formula does not make up the best of Bond. It is actually what has lead to the worst, by a lot.

How come Casino Royale and Skyfall can be Bond films, while still being good movies?

 

[Loki882]

Spoiler

The whole "Quantum is a subsection SPECTRE" also seem to contradict how they were depicted in CR/QOS, where they were very much a leviathan in their own right, with “people everywhere.” And that’s the problem, they just weren’t able to make the whole “SPECTRE is behind/connected to everything” idea feel natural. I feel like it COULD have been made to feel that way, but they needed a major script overhaul:

-Quantum is a rival of SPECTRE, instead of a branch of it. And that’s why Mr. White is a mountain man now, he’s in hiding because SPECTRE is wiping out Quantum and he fears that they’re gunning for him now as well.

-Instead of implying that Silva was a flat-out agent of SPECTRE, just say that he was doing his own thing but them using them as a resource center. Heck that could have plausibly explained one of the things that I know a lot of people had issues with in SF, even people who liked it overall. Namely that they didn’t really buy that Silva was able to plan things out THAT meticulously THAT far ahead. Well, SPECTRE was helping him indirectly, issue solved.

-Blofeld comes after Bond because Bond keeps getting in his way. And he has both a respect for Bond’s abilities, but is also annoyed at his interference. And then it becomes personal between them later on.

-Make the Nine Eyes plot the MAIN focus, instead of it feeling like an afterthought. That’s a very SPECTRE-like goal, and you wouldn’t have kind of wasted Andrew Scott either.

The point is, this all COULD have worked much better with a bit more care and forethought. Or they could have held off on using SPECTRE instead of feeling like they HAD to use them the very next movie just because they finally got the rights back, and then seeded them in much more effectively over multiple films. There’s that to.

 

[Loki882]

I thought Spectre was one of the more boring Bond films out there personally. The jumbled and contrived way of conencting everything definitely didn't help it. From a script pov the thing was a mess and just kinda dull imo. Beautiful looking film though.

Not the worst but I'd rather watch more then a few of the Dalton, Moore and Brosnan films over it.

Bond films that I would watch over this one:

-FRWL.
-Dr. No.
-Goldfinger.
-OHMSS.
-TSWLM.
-FYEO.
-The Living Daylights.
-Licence to Kill.
-Goldeneye.
-TMN (yeah, I said it).
-TWINE (ditto).
-CR.
-Skyfall.
-Mission Impossible: Rogue Nations (because that was a better Bond film than this year’s ACTUAL Bond film).

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The best Bond movie this year was Kingsman. M:I was just another great M:I. Arguably the best.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The best Bond movie this year was Kingsman. M:I was just another great M:I. Arguably the best.

Kingsman was endlessly more impressive than Spectre and so was a straight comedy like Spy.

 

[DyeLorean]

Maybe there's only so much you can do with the same character. It's been 50 years and 24 movies already.