James gunn fired!!! - Part 1

Rockne S. O'Bannon
Gary Trousdale
Kirk Wise
Ron Clements
John Musker
Robert C. Cooper
Brad Wright
Martin Wood
Joseph Mallozzi
Paul Mullie
Michelle Lovretta
Luc Besson

 

Nice strawman. This is very specific. He is complaining about working for people like Disney, who he is criticizing for specifically falling in like with Trump and their supporters. Vince does that by choice.

Nope, not true. You have always talked about the "source". Even now you are arguing they are kowtowing to cybernazis. When that is obviously not the case. This is about Disney, a brand which a significant portion of their fanbase is comprised of kids and women.

He criticizes them as Trump supporters. If the issue was simply "cybernazis" there is zero reason to bring up Trump. That is why he associated Iger and Horn with MAGA, with Trump. The issue is what Trump has brought with him. How he has embolden his supporters.

I know what hypocrisy means. I know you want to ignore it and separate issues, that Bautista himself cannot separate as he is making the connections himself.

By the way, want to comment on the article saying Marvel and Feige stand by the decision?

 

This is a mixed thing as we had many reports indicating he was trying to get Gunn back as well as that report that he stood by the decision. Simply put, we don't have a real indication where Feige actually stood on the decision. It's he said/she said at this point given there are conflicting reports. We can infer all day, but doesn't make much difference. Until Feige actually says something on the matter. Which he likely will dodge doing.

 

Variety reported that he wanted him back, but respects and stands by Horn's decision. I think he wanted him back, but also did not fight with Horn as Horn's position on this makes perfect sense. There was this idea here that Feige was going to start up something here, potentially walk out when his contract ended. That doesn't seem to be the case at all.

Horn's decision here is rationale. It has always been rationale. One can disagree with it of course, but it has always made sense. And it was never about giving into a group of cybernazis.

 

https://twitter.com/filmgob/status/1030758085357449216

 

Nice misinterpretation. It is indeed specific. It's specific criticism of Disney's actions in this particular circumstance. And specific criticism of the group that targeted Gunn. To suggest Bautista's MAGA rant renders him unable to continue a WWE career without charges of hypocrisy is ludicrous.

Yep, true. I didn't discuss Cernovich's background until I was falsely accused of doing so. And you actually think Disney is doing this to keep the kids and women onboard the MCU train? Please. They would have ceased the pearl clutching by that weekend if the Mouse handled this correctly. This was an organized alt right hit, and Disney caved in order to appease these garbage humans and their SJW enablers. The ladies and the kiddies were not the problem.

Yeah, Bautista doesn't like Trump. And he appears to like working for Vince. So what? Earning a living while working for someone with whose politics you disagree is not hypocrisy.

If true, I am disappointed in both the man and the studio.

 

That’s certainly an issue. Combine it with directors who want no part of this, whether in solidarity with Gunn or just because they know they’ll be working with Horn crawling up their butt because this is his mess now, and I suspect the list of candidates is quite thin. We shall see...but something tells me this won’t end well.

 

Where he has expressed disgust about being employed by them for it. And yet he would be absolutely fine actually being employed by a Trump supporter, a Trump friend.

It's almost like all Bautista cares about is himself and his friends...

According to the search thread function, these are your third and fourth post in these threads.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=36845197&postcount=506

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=36845319&postcount=512

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=36845319&highlight=#post36845319

You are responding to an ongoing conversation. You start going on about Nazis, you are the one who brings up Mike Cernovich being a Nazi. No one else does this. You made it about the messenger, what they are. But we can't talk about the person Bautista is. Right. By the way, I hate Cernovich, but of course that was never the question.

I think Disney does not want their name associated with what Gunn wrote, joke or not. They don't care what the source is, they don't like it. Especially in an era of actual awareness on how Hollywood has handled accusations of sexual assault in the past. But in your theory here, you just get to assume Disney is doing this for very specific reasons. Why?

Great to avoid what Bautista himself has said. He doesn't want to work for the people giving into the Trump supporters, but he will work for the Trump supporter. Trump's friend. That is obvious hypocrisy, which is of course why you are avoiding that part.

Why?

 

It's a whole lot more like Bautista is fine with working with Trump voters but isnt ok working for a company that behaved in a cowardly fashion in kowtowing to cybernazies.

Do you? You make excuses for - and carry an awful lot of water for - a guy you claim to hate.

I didn't believe I was slandering Micky by calling him a cybernazi. Please accept my apology on his behalf.

Disney doesn't want to be associated with a guy who wrote and directed two hugely successful films for them and wrote another? It's a tad late for that, don't ya think? Especially as this is retroactive punishment based on years old online comments. Not actual behavior.

This is #Metoo theater. It helps no one, protects nobody and only serves Cernovich and others of his ilk. Disney effed up.

We're not getting anywhere here. You operate under the belief that folks who have the audacity to criticize the actions of certain Trump supporters cannot in good conscience work for a wealthy business owner that voted for Putin's Pet. I think that is a garbage take. Agreed to disagree!

 

Disney: Fired James Gunn due to his past tweets that were "revealed" by Alt Right group

WWE: Owner Vince McMahon's wife is working for the Trump Administration


So which one is more MAGA?

 

It doesn't matter. Bautista was rightly critical of Disney's actions. He is under no obligation to criticize all Trump supporters and all of their actions. If you think the MAGA tweet renders his opinion on THIS ISSUE invalid, be my guest.

 

Co-signed.

 

I just like watching people here hold others to exacting ethical standards they don't hold themselves to.


AKA Tumblr.

 

This company capitulated to the alt-right and strengthened the alt-right. At the very least it is clear that firing Gunn has emboldened them, especially after the likes of Sen. Ted Cruz jumped on board to claim Gunn should be prosecuted. Disney gave them a win. And who knows, if things continue in this direction, it might end up as an interesting footnote to the continued decline of our culture during the Trump years.

 

I am so, so, soooo tired of the false equivalency between Gunn and Roseanne. This is, for the record, also the alt-right's game of creating a "both sides" narrative that supposedly diminishes their sleaziness.

1) Gunn's tweets were the better part of a decade ago or more, Roseanne's was after she had been hired by Disney despite her spotty record and chose not to clean up her act.

2) Gunn's tweets were (horrible) comedy clearly said in jest, Roseanne's was clearly drenched in dog whistle racism, which she clearly supports given how she and most of her followers deny "knowing Valerie Jarrett was black," as one of her five different excuses, which is utter ********.

3) Disney knew about Gunn's past and accepted he'd changed. He then spent six years proving he had. He did not do this to himself like Barr, nor was Disney "surprised." He was targeted by political extremists on the right who were angry he was publicly insulting and disagreeing with their orange fuhrer.

So no, they are not the same. Hence why Roseanne's fall was not questioned by anyone, including her cast and crew which were on the verge of losing their jobs. Meanwhile everyone who knows Gunn has not only vouched for his character but stepped up asking he be reinstated.

 

Given he's been accused of assault and matter of factly used to date teenage girls in his 30s and 40s... yeah, why not? Disney's hypocrisy knows no bounds.

 

Then why bring up MAGA?

Yep, strawman. You are again avoiding the entire point. You said you didn't bring up the accusers or who they were until after you were challenged on that front. You clearly were not telling the truth there. But when confronted with the receipts its suddenly, "Well you like him". Nope. That's hiding behind the actual argument.

And the only reason this matters is because you want to avoid doing the same with Bautista. You don't want to bring up who he is, but are fine with bringing up who other people are. I say who they all are is relevant, but you want to avoid who Bautista is, because he is the only one being super vocal about this.

Its actual behavior. Its what he posted, even if it was a decade ago, and it all wasn't of course. Has there been any actual indication from any trade that Disney knew about this before this came up? Nope.

Disney didn't mess up. They are fine. How many movies have they made since the first GotG that has been more successful then either one of them? At least 10? And now they have the X-Men. Their Star Wars lands are opening up next year. Frozen 2 is coming. Toy Story 4 is coming. You think they are worried about James Gunn?

And if the idea is being successful somehow makes you immune to being fired, someone should have told that to Donald Sterling. Because he made plenty of money while running the awful Clippers.

It isn't good that garbage makes more sense then your post then.

 

This is working under the assumption they cared about what the alt-right had to say. They don't. They didn't want to associate the brand of Disney with what he wrote, and as things went on, other things started coming back up, which is exactly what they didn't want.

Do they have to keep James Gunn employed just because the alt-right wanted him fired, no matter how Horn and Iger felt on the matter?

 

I'm sorry, but I see no universe where Disney didn't know about them. If a mom & pop store knows to look at your social media, friggin Disney does. Either the company is run by idiots, which they clearly are not, or they knew and didn't care. I trust Iger & Horn are smart people. So I default to they clearly knew.

 

But we can believe that major league baseball teams don't know about their own players writing about white power and saying the N-word? I think this goes straight back to the idea that he had 10,000 posts he deleted. Because there was a swamp and he didn't even remember what he wrote. And this was back when twitter wasn't what it is now and maybe whoever was in PR thought it was cleaned up. I think we have to go back to the idea that even Gunn realized how bad this was once it got out, and started deleting stuff.

I think what is most important is I doubt either Horn or Iger knew what was written, and once they did, well we saw they acted. This is not something Horn or Iger would usually involve themselves in. Once it hit the mainstream, it was done. Completely.

 

When Marvel bought Disney, what was the biggest thing people said they would gain? The Disney marketing machine. MLB is well known for being poor at advertising their product and being behind the times. Disney has always been ahead of the curve. So a company that is a master of marketing and using social media to do it, and have been for years, you're going to tell me they were suddenly stupid when it came to their 150+ mil investment? I think not. They knew, and Horn and Iger were trying their best to stay ahead of bad press when this was becoming what it was. Pure and simple. It's corporate spin.

 

Marketing is one thing. This is HR or whom ever runs background checks for Disney.

Do you really think Horn and Iger knew what was written? I mean what was actually written and if so, do you think it got all the way up to them how? I agree they were getting ahead of the bad press, which is exactly why I am doubtful they knew about it. Because they wouldn't want to deal with it. I also think this is exactly why Gunn reacted the way he did when this got out.

If you think this was common knowledge for everyone involved, why do you think everyone, including Horn and Gunn, reacted the way they did? Why has Feige reacted the way he did? Why have those even defending Gunn at the heart of this separated Gunn from the comments?

 

I think whoever researches for them definitely brought it up. That would be that person's entire job to make them aware of possible issues, and no doubt examples would have been provided. Unless that person had a brain fart when reading those tweets, and I doubt it given the content. As for why I think Iger and Horn reacted how they did, simple: the approached it like Rosanne. Show as much outrage as possible and get ahead of the game. With the current climate of mob rule Twitter has anymore, I think they wanted to get ahead of the mob. But I not for 1 second believe Alan Horn never saw those tweets. That is utter BS and garbage unless a whole lot of people dropped the ball on this, but again...given Disney's savy with social media, I think there is as close to a 0% chance as possible. If Alan Horn never knew about these Tweets prior, then all their social media researchers they have had on staff since 2011 all need fired too because they dropped the ball tremendously. But I cannot emphasize how little I entertain that possibility.

 

Less than six years is not a decade. Sorry.

 

My issue with this is it is assuming 2018 post-Gunn logic, to 2012. Twitter is a very different beast then it use to be. All of social media is. Look at how much from the past is being dug up now as opposed to 2012. It also assumes it was Horn, not Feige or even the people who run the department weren't the ones checking off what was searched and the reaction to it. That is why they hire so many people. These kind of things are their job. One it gets to Horn, it is a very different situation.