Guardians of the Galaxy James gunn fired!!! - Part 1

[jmc]

What about the incentive of not being branded as such by not doing these things in the first place? And I am not trying to be obtuse here. But if we are talking degrees, nothing awful happened to Gunn. He has his friends with him, he will work again. So in that regard, he has incentive to keep going on a good path.

There are environmental and social factors that come into play with regards to people's behaviour. That's where you have to start from. Gunn's behaviour was more than likely influence from his time working at Troma where the environment was to create offensive material. It's easy to say he shouldn't have said it, but in that context it's easy to see why he didn't think much of the tweets at the time. This isn't a case of someone meaning what he was saying, it was someone who was trying dirty jokes because he was in an environment which allowed it. You've got to stop acting like everyone is perfect from day one, that they were brought up to be good, wholesome people from birth. The reality is there's a lot of ****ed up people in this world, many of whom through no fault of their own, many of which can have their lives turned around if you're willing to listen to them. As Spider-Fan says you've got to treat the symptoms. Your position isn't to treat the symptom, it's to ignore the patient carrying the disease and hope it goes away, but if the disease doesn't go away it just becomes more and more infectious.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Which is a fair point to make, but I still feel there are degrees to dealing with these scenarios and it involves degree of what the person actually did or said. Context does matter. Someone like Harvey Weinstein needed removed for example.

Of course there are degrees. And Gunn isn't even being treated like Weinstein. Well, except for the alt-right *******s who don't really think he is some sort of pedophilia. This was all seemingly a business decision at the end of the day. As I said earlier, they aren't worried about the small percentage of people who already know who Gunn is. They are worried about the percentage who will learn of Gunn as the guy who liked to make jokes about rape of women and children. Who made fun of 9/11. Those kind of things. That Horn and Iger discussed it, makes me think he isn't coming back because of that.

I tend to believe it through the fact the cast and such all say he is a sweetheart and seem to love the guy. There is no indication of anything improper on set or anything like that, so I tend to believe him based on that.

Which means the incentive of being a better person is all he needed then. t:

The gist I get is his wife knew that the other coaches wife was abused, and she said she would tell Urban and effectively nothing was done with that claim, correct? Which is basically, covering it up assuming Urban knew (which I have no doubts he did). That is wrong.

These were situations reported to the police. Apparently 9 times. And he kept him on staff, letting it fly under the radar, until a new restraining order got out in the public and then he suddenly fired the guy. During a press conference earlier this week, he claimed he had never heard of the 2015 incident. The issue is, his wife knew, they talked about about the photos she knew she had, and she said she was going to tell Meyer.

Meyer and his wife apparently did not report it to the school, which do to Title IX, it is required. Meyer's wife also works at the school.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Of course there are degrees. And Gunn isn't even being treated like Weinstein. Well, except for the alt-right *******s who don't really think he is some sort of pedophilia. This was all seemingly a business decision at the end of the day. As I said earlier, they aren't worried about the small percentage of people who already know who Gunn is. They are worried about the percentage who will learn of Gunn as the guy who liked to make jokes about rape of women and children. Who made fun of 9/11. Those kind of things. That Horn and Iger discussed it, makes me think he isn't coming back because of that.

Oh, that is exactly what Disney is looking at. I understand all that. It doesn't make me agree with it on a moral level, though. I understand how Disney views it 100%.

Which means the incentive of being a better person is all he needed then. t:

Sometimes it is all you need!

These were situations reported to the police. Apparently 9 times. And he kept him on staff, letting it fly under the radar, until a new restraining order got out in the public and then he suddenly fired the guy. During a press conference earlier this week, he claimed he had never heard of the 2015 incident. The issue is, his wife knew, they talked about about the photos she knew she had, and she said she was going to tell Meyer.

Meyer and his wife apparently did not report it to the school, which do to Title IX, it is required. Meyer's wife also works at the school.

This part I already knew. I didn't know it was reported to the cops. But yeah, unacceptable.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There are environmental and social factors that come into play with regards to people's behaviour. That's where you have to start from. Gunn's behaviour was more than likely influence from his time working at Troma where the environment was to create offensive material. It's easy to say he shouldn't have said it, but in that context it's easy to see why he didn't think much of the tweets at the time. This isn't a case of someone meaning what he was saying, it was someone who was trying dirty jokes because he was in an environment which allowed it. You've got to stop acting like everyone is perfect from day one, that they were brought up to be good, wholesome people from birth. The reality is there's a lot of ****ed up people in this world, many of whom through no fault of their own, many of which can have their lives turned around if you're willing to listen to them. As Spider-Fan says you've got to treat the symptoms. Your position isn't to treat the symptom, it's to ignore the patient carrying the disease and hope it goes away, but if the disease doesn't go away it just becomes more and more infectious.

Who says anyone needs to be perfect? You are going to an extreme when you write that. I am not saying anyone needs to be perfect. My beloved Mark Hamill isn't perfect. Am I saying he needs to be banished from society? Did I say Gunn needs to be banished from society?

Let's try this. If Gunn did this now, should he be fired for?

 

[Schlosser85]

If he'd been doing this currently, with the increased number of people following him on Twitter, there'd have been no way to sweep it under the rug. It'd have turned into a public outcry, and they'd have had to fire him for PR reasons, basically.


If I was in charge of Disney and/or Marvel Studios, and I found out about Gunn's past tweets at the time he was hired, I'd have told him to erase every trace of them, and then hoped no one found out, which if he'd been smart enough to erase them way back when, they probably wouldn't have.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh, that is exactly what Disney is looking at. I understand all that. It doesn't make me agree with it on a moral level, though. I understand how Disney views it 100%.

The morality of it is... yeah. I don't know. Which is why I have said I am conflicted and I honestly don't think I'd have an issue either way in the end. But I am against the idea that it was nothing really, as even Gunn and those friends that support him aren't saying that. Its the idea that he changed. Whether that is true or not, I have no idea. But yeah, what he did in the first place was wrong imo. And it wasn't a small transgression imo.

Sometimes it is all you need!

Ethan Hunt taught me this.

This part I already knew. I didn't know it was reported to the cops. But yeah, unacceptable.

Yes it is.

 

[DACrowe]

Out of curiosity, were you defending Roseanne?

I just want to say this argument is so specious it makes my head hurt. Not only did she have a history of "bad jokes" (to put it mildly) like Gunn, but hers are based on a demonstrable actual negative opinion and point of racism. And by that I mean, her remarks about Valerie Jarrett were intentionally racist in that dog whistle, red meat to the alt-right sort of way where they try to also have a vague sense of deniability. Which she did by saying "Oh I didn't even know she was black." She didn't take ownership of her past behavior... she continued her bad behavior after getting a second chance by Disney and made a genuinely racist comment that she wouldn't back down from.

By comparison, Gunn most recently was using his Twitter account to raise awareness of children being abused in Donald Trump's children camps. That, among similar political stances, is why the right went after him.

The "both sides" argument here is ********.

 

[2kt09]

I just want to say this argument is so specious it makes my head hurt. Not only did she have a history of "bad jokes" (to put it mildly) like Gunn, but hers are based on a demonstrable actual negative opinion and point of racism. And by that I mean, her remarks about Valerie Jarrett were intentionally racist in that dog whistle, red meat to the alt-right sort of way where they try to also have a vague sense of deniability. Which she did by saying "Oh I didn't even know she was black." She didn't take ownership of her past behavior... she continued her bad behavior after getting a second chance by Disney and made a genuinely racist comment that she wouldn't back down from.

By comparison, Gunn most recently was using his Twitter account to raise awareness of children being abused in Donald Trump's children camps. That, among similar political stances, is why the right went after him.

The "both sides" argument here is ********.

It was Gunn who said what he said about Roseanne and ABC having the right to fire her.
He should if he hasn't already stand by those words given he's in eerily similar hot water.

 

[DACrowe]

I feel like Thor: Ragnarok actually gets into it quite well, while never making someone like Valkyrie the butt of sexist jokes.

What prefer are characters like T'Challa and Ethan Hunt, and even Thor who are flawed, can discuss issues, without themselves being creepy or just bad to women. Because the message you send with a hero is this is what you should aspire to. But then again I grew up a fan of Luke Skywalker far more then Han Solo.

T'Challa and Ethan Hunt are nice (although both are fairly less developed than much of their supporting cast), but none of them had the level of exploration as Star-Lord or even Rocket in the Guardians films. I agree with you on the "space-****e" joke being bad in the first one and that Gunn, probably unconsciously, used an Asian stereotype in the second. But if we're going to judge every MCU movie that critically, one of the reasons Perlmutter recast Rhodey was "no one can tell the difference."

In any case, I prefer heroes who can be quite flawed. Out of curiosity, if you now think any that treat women poorly should be rewritten or dismissed in the Me Too era, are you swearing off James Bond films? Can you rewatch Indiana Jones films? I mean, even Han Solo, who you mention, is fairly chauvinistic. Even though the more recent Bond films are aware of this as a flaw (instead of a feature during the Connery/Moore days), he is still a misogynist.

So was Tony Stark come to think of it in the first three Iron Man movies. It's just, unlike Gunn, those films skirted really giving a hard look at their character's flaws.

I am not a fan of Gunn's female characters. He doesn't really let them have fun the way he lets his lovable male losers have fun. And the issue with Star-Lord comes with Thor, not Thanos.

I mean I think Nebula is one of the best characters in the MCU. She is clearly the badass of the Guardians films, even if Infinity War wasted her as a hostage who was captured off-screen. It was Gunn's idea to make her the "Boba Fett" of the Guardians films. And unlike so many antagonists in other Marvel movies, she has layers and can... find redemption. I imagine she'd have been killed off by now if someone else was writing Guardians 2. Maybe it can happen in 3.

 

[DACrowe]

It was Gunn who said what he said about Roseanne and ABC having the right to fire her.
He should if he hasn't already stand by those words given he's in eerily similar hot water.

I don't believe they're similar, but yes, he was part of this mob mentality. The difference is what Roseanne did happened this year and clearly reflected what she really thought.

But the irony is why I think Gunn has to be so accepting of Disney burning him (well that and he wants to work in Hollywood again someday). He lived by the sword and died by the sword.

It still does not mean they are the same and that we should take false equivalencies at face value.

 

[2kt09]

I don't believe they're similar, but yes, he was part of this mob mentality. The difference is what Roseanne did happened this year and clearly reflected what she really thought.

But the irony is why I think Gunn has to be so accepting of Disney burning him (well that and he wants to work in Hollywood again someday). He lived by the sword and died by the sword.

It still does not mean they are the same and that we should take false equivalencies at face value.

He was still making those kinds of jokes this year. The situation is studio does not condone the way this person acts on social media after having his/her dirty laundry aired out publically and thus he/she was fired.

 

[Detective Conan]

https://medium.com/@joninarebekka/t...d-the-pedophile-in-his-childhood-f7ba23855a82


I highly recommend people check this article out.

 

[Spider-Fan]

https://medium.com/@joninarebekka/t...d-the-pedophile-in-his-childhood-f7ba23855a82


I highly recommend people check this article out.

This is a very insightful read

Thank you for sharing this link. It should be required reading for people in this thread.

 

[Flash525]

https://medium.com/@joninarebekka/t...d-the-pedophile-in-his-childhood-f7ba23855a82


I highly recommend people check this article out.

This is a very insightful read

Thank you for sharing this link. It should be required reading for people in this thread.

A very good read indeed, and it goes to show that a lot can be taken out of context if people are (or aren't) reading between the lines.

Still, I expect some people will still accuse him of being a paedophile or whatever other nonsense they come up with. Disney need to fix this and rehire him. Internet trolls be gone!

 

[MilkmanDan]

That was a good article. Heck, it was worth reading just for explanation of some of Gunn's jokes that made no sense without the context (e.g. fake retweets and the one where he called his dog a paedophile for loving kids so much)

 

[Flint Marko]

He was still making those kinds of jokes this year.

Er.... he has?

 

[2kt09]

Er.... he has?

Yeah.

 

[Flint Marko]

Yeah.

Care to post any examples? Because I've followed him for years and been paying attention and I can't find any.

 

[2kt09]

Care to post any examples? Because I've followed him for years and been paying attention and I can't find any.

Example

 

[Zarex]

Yeah.

Do you have anything to back this up? Or is it more of the "Gunn thought this stuff was funny so he "ACTUALLY PROBABLY IS A PEDOPHILE" nonsense.

Ya know, I'm starting to think this was a manufactured crisis started by a cybernazi, pushed hard by the alt right and ably assisted by their SJW co-conspirators. Good job, everyone!

 

[Spider-Fan]

Example

In this Tweet, he is not making a joke. He is asking about Jared Leto's potential habit of soliciting underage girls for sex.

 

[Zarex]

Example

He's referencing rumors that he (and others) have heard about Leto. Nice try, though!

 

[Flint Marko]

Example

I knew it

 

[2kt09]

In this Tweet, he is not making a joke. He is asking about Jared Leto's potential habit of soliciting underage girls for sex.

Oh okay.

He's referencing rumors that he (and others) have heard about Leto. Nice try, though!

The irony.

 

[Zarex]

The irony.

How so? What rumors have we about Mr. Gunn's behavior? And I'm not talking about the manufactured ones we've seen on this thread.