Guardians of the Galaxy James gunn fired!!! - Part 1

[Zarex]

If Sarah Jeong had tweeted things like that about any race other than white, she'd have been out on her ass by now.


If racism is only racism to you if it's directed at the "right" ethnic group, then that's the point where I stop taking you seriously, because you're basically showing you don't have any leg to stand on acting morally righteous about racism when you're okay with racism that's not affecting you.

Racism directed against a minority group is and should be taken more seriously than when it flows in the opposite direction. The white supremacy movement is ingrained within the GOP and supported by Putin's Boy. It's a far greater threat to our nation than a made up crisis like the war against evangelical christians.

But I think the problem we are seeing is taking these things out of context. I didn't see Ms. Jeong's tweets as problematic, nor do I see racial or homophobic slurs posted when one was younger as something that should be a barrier to employment. If someone posts the N word AND is marching with tiki torches and stockpiling weaponry we should probably look into that.

 

[Skrilla31]

Racism is racism, insults are insults, and jokes are jokes. They can intersect with each other but there is still a clear distinction between all three.



Racism isn't to be tolerated, but that doesn't mean we need to lynch reputations and career's over the other two. If you feel like skipping a tv show or a movie because of something someone associated with it has said, you have that freedom. If enough people like you feel similarly then the results will end up speaking for themselves.

 

[Skrilla31]

Racism directed against a minority group is and should be taken more seriously than when it flows in the opposite direction. The white supremacy movement is ingrained within the GOP and supported by Putin's Boy. It's a far greater threat to our nation than a made up crisis like the war against evangelical christians..

Non-whites as a group make up close to 40% of the U.S. population, that's not a small group. Plus that number is only going to grow.



And yet here you are basically granting immunity to that 40% when it comes to discriminating against and racially mocking the other 60%.

 

[Zarex]

Non-whites as a group make up close to 40% of the U.S. population, that's not a small group. Plus that number is only going to grow.

Sure, If you lump them all into one delightful multi-hued melange. But there is a considerable amount of diversity within the diversity, much moreso than among, for example, white Christians. As we've seen in the last Presidential election, riled up whites still have an extraordinary amount of electoral power in comparison to our non Caucasian brothers and sisters.

And yet here you are basically granting immunity to that 40% when it comes to discriminating against and racially mocking the other 60%.

I'm ain't givin' nobody a pass for nothin'. Racial hatred should be stomped out, from whatever the source. But non whites, specifically folks of sub Saharan African origin, have born an enormously large % of that hatred, and that must be taken into consideration when looking at these tweets that the kids are all talking about. For example:

A non white person posts "I hate whites!" and I think " Oh crap, what have we done?! "

A white person posts "I hate blacks!" and I think " Oh crap, what is he going to do?! "

 

[Skrilla31]

Sure, If you lump them all into one delightful multi-hued melange. But there is a considerable amount of diversity within the diversity, much moreso than among, for example, white Christians. As we've seen in the last Presidential election, riled up whites still have an extraordinary amount of electoral power in comparison to our non Caucasian brothers and sisters.


You say this isn't that bad because the woman in question is chinese... okay well I suppose you would also say the same if she were black, middle eastern, whatever right? Because these are all minority groups? But if every non-white person has the same 'pass' to engage in racism, then in this case they ARE part of a larger group. You are essentially saying that 40% of the country is free to engage in racism so long as it's aimed towards white people.



I'm ain't givin' nobody a pass for nothin'. Racial hatred should be stomped out, from whatever the source. But non whites, specifically folks of sub Saharan African origin, have born an enormously large % of that hatred, and that must be taken into consideration when looking at these tweets that the kids are all talking about. For example:

A non white person posts "I hate whites!" and I think " Oh crap, what have we done?! "

A white person posts "I hate blacks!" and I think " Oh crap, what is he going to do?! "


I can't help it if you judge white people before any acts have been committed. That sounds like you're profiling.

God knows the uproar if a white person were guilty of the same.

Bolded

 

[Zarex]

I'm giving Ms. Jeong the same benefit of the doubt I give folks who were have found to have posted the N word. We can't really tell if it's a problem without context and more info. It's the same consideration I accorded Ms. Barr. I don't believe she should have been fired until cast and crew made it clear they no longer wanted to work with her.

But I am also ABSOLUTELY profiling my fellow pales. We've got a troubling history of treatment directed towards non whites, and racial violence and animosity picked up considerably about a year and a half ago for no particular reason. I take that sh** personally.

 

[Skrilla31]

I'm giving Ms. Jeong the same benefit of the doubt I give folks who were have found to have posted the N word. We can't really tell if it's a problem without context and more info. It's the same consideration I accorded Ms. Barr. I don't believe she should have been fired until cast and crew made it clear they no longer wanted to work with her.

But I am also ABSOLUTELY profiling my fellow pales. We've got a troubling history of treatment directed towards non whites, and racial violence and animosity picked up considerably about a year and a half ago for no particular reason. I take that sh** personally.

Every race of people has a history of violence, corruption and slavery. All colors have been oppressors, all colors have been enslaved. Hate crimes have been conducted by just about every group there is.



But you insist on singling out white people.

 

[Ozbridge]

At what point in time was pedophilia considered socially acceptable?

Apparently according to some people in this (and other) thread Gunn's "jokes" were not as bad in 2008 as they would have been in 2018, I'm not American and wasn't familiar with American culture back in 2008 so I'll take it as face value. Besides, 10 years ago people were not as educated on tact and sensitivity as they are now, so I would have considered their words uninformed rather than intentionally offensive. I'm pretty sure 10 years ago I told my sister some stupid thing like "Women should be able to cook and do housework", nowadays if some girls say something like that I'll correct her immediately (if my 80-year-old grandmother says it I won't bother to correct her though, which is why I'm more forgiving toward James Gunn than if, say, Chris Hemsworth had tweeted the same "jokes" 6 years ago).

Oh this thread has turned into a discussion about whether in general a person should be fired over their tweets, I see.

No one should be fired over years-old tweets, imo, except very special circumstances. Just an apologize and clarification that the person has been educated and changed should be enough. The lenses in 2018 and 2008 are very different. The eras people grew up in are different. A 20-something and a 50-year-old man saying the same thing at the same time will be treated differently by me.

For Sarah Jeong, I don’t want to read her tweets (things like that are triggering to me) but like women being hurt by men is more serious than men being hurt by women, people say offensive things to black and Jewish people is more serious than saying offensive things to white people (if you don’t agree with either or both there’s no need to @ me neither you nor I will change our mind).

@ all folks who said I condone racism against white people: I never condone racism or sexism in any shape or form. If my sister says "All men are pigs" I'll correct her immediately (if a male stranger says "All women are trash" I won't correct him though, I'll just run away). But saying offensive things about women and people of color are definitely more serious than saying the same things about white people and men, "Burn all Jews" isn't the same as "Burn all Christian", "Enslave black people" isn't the same as "Enslave white people", men hitting women isn't the same as women hitting men.

Again, don't @ me if you want to try to change my mind.

 

[Skrilla31]

Apparently according to some people in this (and other) thread Gunn's "jokes" were not as bad in 2008 as they would have been in 2018, I'm not American and wasn't familiar with American culture back in 2008 so I'll take it as face value. Besides, 10 years ago people were not as educated on tact and sensitivity as they are now, so I would have considered their words uninformed rather than intentionally offensive. I'm pretty sure 10 years ago I told my sister some stupid thing like "Women should be able to cook and do housework", nowadays if some girls say something like that I'll correct her immediately (if my 80-year-old grandmother says it I won't bother to correct her though, which is why I'm more forgiving toward James Gunn than if, say, Chris Hemsworth had tweeted the same "jokes" 6 years ago).



@ all folks who said I condone racism against white people: I never condone racism or sexism in any shape or form. If my sister says "All men are pigs" I'll correct her immediately (if a male stranger says "All women are trash" I won't correct him though, I'll just run away). But saying offensive things about women and people of color are definitely more serious than saying the same things about white people and men, "Burn all Jews" isn't the same as "Burn all Christian", "Enslave black people" isn't the same as "Enslave white people", men hitting women isn't the same as women hitting men.

Again, don't @ me if you want to try to change my mind.

Please tell me (a jew) how it is 'more acceptable' to say burn all christians as opposed to burn all jews.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If Sarah Jeong had tweeted things like that about any race other than white, she'd have been out on her ass by now.


If racism is only racism to you if it's directed at the "right" ethnic group, then that's the point where I stop taking you seriously, because you're basically showing you don't have any leg to stand on acting morally righteous about racism when you're okay with racism that's not affecting you.

What Sarah Jeong wrote was wrong. But like how Gunn is not comparable to Roseanne, I do not think what Jeong wrote is comparable to Roseanne. If context matters, context matters. That being said, some of the defenses of what Jeong did are downright dumb imo, as it is the exact strategy used to justify what Trump has said in the past.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I avoid certain parts not because I'm overwhelmed by the sheer logic of your arguments. It's because I have a job and a family and there's other stuff I'd rather be doing than engaging in a point by point rebuttal of a multi paragraph word salad.

That is an interesting argument, considering just how much time you have spent arguing in this thread over Gunn.

Mulaney made jokes about the Catholic Church scandal, being confused for a child molester and the incest subplot in Back to the Future. But I'm specifically talking about John saying his parents would always take the side of adults over him, and describing how they would have waved off a specific type of sex act between prepubescent Mulaney and an adult male.

I'm specifically talking about those on this thread who are saying these types of jokes are NEVER ok. And how a CONSISTENT Disney can NEVER hire John Mulaney

So in the jokes you are presenting, Mulaney was the potential victim, while he pointed out the sordid history of the Catholic religion and childhood sexual assault and rape. And we are comparing that to someone saying they want to make a movie where a tree rapes a child.

Do you not see the inherent difference in what you just presented to what Gunn said?

Gunn was wrong! A bakers dozen of jokes (over many years and thousands of posts) were gross and, even worse, not funny. He was embarrassed that the left-right Dream Team had put him in its crosshairs, and probably upset as well about the problems his words from years ago had caused for his cast and crew and the guy who took a chance on him back in 2012.

This should have been an apology and a teachable moment about social media's damaging effects. The firing remains ridiculous.

It is whatever his employer wants it to be. Now and in the future. Again, nothing happens if Gunn doesn't do these things in the first place.

 

[Ozbridge]

Please tell me (a jew) how it is 'more acceptable' to say burn all christians as opposed to burn all jews.

Because gas chambers were only 70 years ago, Jewish people today have direct family members being victims of gas chambers and Holocaust survivors are still breathing. Saying "Burn all Jews" has a specific historical connotation. And not all Jewish people think the same thing, I'm pretty sure there're Asian people out there being okay with cultural appropriation too, it doesn't mean that the concern of Asian people who do have an issue with it isn't valid.

If we go back a couple of centuries then there was forced conversion into Christianity too, but I don't think it's fair to mention it because Christians nowadays aren't at all related to it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think this is a very good response to the idea that what has happened with Gunn is suddenly going to make everything taboo:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/08/03/always-sunnys-charlie-day-james-gunn-tweets-roseanne-fired

When a reporter at the Television Critics Association summer press tour asked the cast whether they were worried about past jokes being taken out of context and used against them, Day said, "I haven’t seen too many examples of things being taken out of context that were things that were said or tweeted in a very intelligent way," pointing out that the jokes on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia are "always a commentary on bad behavior; when you're making a commentary on bad behavior and someone says something that's bad, you get it."

The problem arises, Day said, "where there's no thought behind the inappropriate joke. In some ways it’s good - it’s forcing people to think a little bit more about the jokes they’re writing and the things they’re saying, as opposed to just blurting stuff out. I think it’s good."

While Day was optimistic that most viewers and networks can recognize true satire, he did admit, "if people start not being able to follow sarcasm, then we’re in trouble."

 

[Skrilla31]

Because gas chambers were only 70 years ago, Jewish people today have direct family members being victims of gas chambers and Holocaust survivors are still breathing. Saying "Burn all Jews" has a specific historical connotation. And not all Jewish people think the same thing, I'm pretty sure there're Asian people out there being okay with cultural appropriation too, it doesn't mean that the concern of Asian people who do have an issue with it isn't valid.

If we go back a couple of centuries then there was forced conversion into Christianity too, but I don't think it's fair to mention it because Christians nowadays aren't at all related to it.

I am jewish, I have family that died during the holocaust. I also have family that escaped to America.



Yes in a parallel universe where I was born in Germany and not in the U.S... in the year 1940 and not 1984... I might have been a victim of the holocaust. It's awful to think about but that's about it. It never happened to me and thankfully I did not share in that experience. I am not a victim of anything.



Someone saying 'burn all christians' is just as vile and dangerous as someone saying 'burn all jews'.

 

[TheVileOne]

Some of the handwringing here is hilarious.

 

[Captain Marvel]

No he actually committed crimes like breaking into neighbors homes and stealing for his drug habit. He served a prison sentence. And by all accounts, he's a great guy who really cleaned up his act. But there is clearly a cognitive dissonance going on in fan culture here.

What "cognitive dissonance"? As you yourself point out, He served a prison sentence. I.E. He paid for his behavior, and paid in a pretty big way. Recognizing that someone already paid a pretty hefty price for their behavior and not demanding out of the blue that they be punished again for it isn't cognitive dissonance. It's called having a brain. By contrast, Gunn hadn't suffered consequences for his behavior until only a few days ago, and those consequences aren't anywhere near what RDJ has suffered (Although as others have noted, I sincerely hope the FBI are tearing through his hard drives).

But should she be fired because they were about white people? She made jokes about "hate" can we "forgive" her?

She should be fired because she's a blatant racist. What she's said is far worse than Roseanne, because Roseanne wasn't making claims about entire races. Just one comment about one person which could be construed as racist. There's no question that Jeong is a raging racist.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Because gas chambers were only 70 years ago, Jewish people today have direct family members being victims of gas chambers and Holocaust survivors are still breathing. Saying "Burn all Jews" has a specific historical connotation. And not all Jewish people think the same thing, I'm pretty sure there're Asian people out there being okay with cultural appropriation too, it doesn't mean that the concern of Asian people who do have an issue with it isn't valid.

If we go back a couple of centuries then there was forced conversion into Christianity too, but I don't think it's fair to mention it because Christians nowadays aren't at all related to it.

You realize, right, that there are Christian genocides going on right now? So it's less acceptable to say "Burn all Jews" because of the Holocaust which occurred 70 years ago, but according to you, it's more acceptable to say "Burn all Christians"... even though there are parts of the world where Christians are currently the targets of genocide and mass murder?

Gotta love how some people not only don't seem to be too put out when they hear others expressing genocidal thoughts or racism, but they work hard to justify it and excuse it so long as those genocidal thoughts and that racism is directed towards groups they don't care as much about.

Here's a shocking thought: how about genocidal thoughts are bad, period, regardless of what group they're applied to? And maybe we could think of racism as being bad, period, regardless of what race it applies to?

 

[Zarex]

What "cognitive dissonance"? As you yourself point out, He served a prison sentence. I.E. He paid for his behavior, and paid in a pretty big way. Recognizing that someone already paid a pretty hefty price for their behavior and not demanding out of the blue that they be punished again for it isn't cognitive dissonance. It's called having a brain. By contrast, Gunn hadn't suffered consequences for his behavior until only a few days ago, and those consequences aren't anywhere near what RDJ has suffered (Although as others have noted, I sincerely hope the FBI are tearing through his hard drives).

Don't give Putin's Boy any ideas! Pushing for child porn investigations against folks that made his enemies list might be his next brilliant idea after separating kids from their parents at the border worked out so swimmingly for him

Your insistence on confusing a serious crime with millions of actual victims to a baker's dozen of poor jokes made years ago is far worse than anything Gunn had said and you should stop it. People may start wondering what's on your hard drive.

She should be fired because she's a blatant racist. What she's said is far worse than Roseanne, because Roseanne wasn't making claims about entire races. Just one comment about one person which could be construed as racist. There's no question that Jeong is a raging racist.

As with Gunn, the alt-right cybernazis misconstrued her tweets. Many were sarcastic comments and were posted out of context to confuse folks with limited brain capacity. And they were made in response to racial and sexual harassment from those same garbage humans, which is just business as usual for the deplorables. There's about as much evidence that Jeong is a racist than Gunn is a pedo, not that it would stop certain types of folks from trying to push that false narrative.

And Roseanne was fired because her cast and crew didn't want to work with her any longer. End Of Story.

 

[NotNickFury]

While Day was optimistic that most viewers and networks can recognize true satire, he did admit, "if people start not being able to follow sarcasm, then we’re in trouble."

My only issue with Day's comments here is that while he's right, people have been saying that for years, as far back as George Carlin even in his final years, that people were getting too sensitive and not being able to recognize satire and sarcasm.

What I don't get is why it's suddenly the topic of conversation that people want to have when it's James Gunn in particular who got the axe when we've been talking for quite some time about how PC society nowadays can't recognize satire and sarcasm.

 

[terry78]

To dust off this old chestnut, it's all about who you like.

 

[Zarex]

What I don't get is why it's suddenly the topic of conversation that people want to have when it's James Gunn in particular who got the axe when we've been talking for quite some time about how PC society nowadays can't recognize satire and sarcasm.

It's a mystery, that's for sure! One possibility I am weighing is because he directed the GOTG series and this is the SuperHeroHype Forums.
(Note: Sarcasm was used in the prior paragraph.)

 

[The Sand Master]

The 1% who are either fans of the movie or know about filmmaking, and how a movie is a director's vision.

In the bigger scheme of things, that 1% that know who James Gunn is, doesn't matter.

 

[Lilbaz]

Racism directed against a minority group is and should be taken more seriously than when it flows in the opposite direction. The white supremacy movement is ingrained within the GOP and supported by Putin's Boy. It's a far greater threat to our nation than a made up crisis like the war against evangelical christians.

But I think the problem we are seeing is taking these things out of context. I didn't see Ms. Jeong's tweets as problematic, nor do I see racial or homophobic slurs posted when one was younger as something that should be a barrier to employment. If someone posts the N word AND is marching with tiki torches and stockpiling weaponry we should probably look into that.

No it shouldn't. If you treat one group differently to another you create resentment, anger and hatred.

People should be treated equally.

 

[Frodo]

In the bigger scheme of things, that 1% that know who James Gunn is, doesn't matter.

That's sort of the irony of things. The average joe or jane has heard of GOTG, but its unlikely they know who directed it.

Had Gunn been a household name among the GA , I think there may have been a wider spread rallying effect to him due to his name recognition, and association with the GOTG films.

Then again, if he were a household name, he may have been treated worse by the press since he would be a "big fish" to take down.

At the same time, the fact that he's not a household name means that he can move on from Disney and work for another studio or do his own thing without there being any fuss around it.

 

[NotNickFury]

It's a mystery, that's for sure! One possibility I am weighing is because he directed the GOTG series and this is the SuperHeroHype Forums.
(Note: Sarcasm was used in the prior paragraph.)

Which doesn't make him any more special or anyone important than anyone else who got sacked, superhero movies or not.

And that's not me using sarcasm there.