Guardians of the Galaxy James gunn fired!!! - Part 1

[Zarex]

Let's be very specific.

His complaint is one of the moral standing of his employer. His problem is his employer fired someone for reasons he found unjustified. That makes it him nauseous. This is a man who worked for Vince McMahon with a smile on his face for how long? Even came back for a run and has said on more then one occasion he wants another run. Working for Vince, by choice, doesn't apparently make him nauseous.

If you are asking me whether or not Mr. Bautista should have stood up to a billionaire entertainment owner/operator who promoted widespread steroid abuse while ignoring mental health concerns and sexual harassment, I would agree. He probably shoulda. But for all of Mr. McMahon's many, many, many faults, few would accuse him of cowardice. This is the issue Dave appears to be having a problem with, and rightfully so. Disney behaved cowardly and Dave Bautista - despite being a flawed human (unlike us!) - was right in speaking up.

Also you just brought up Cernovich's past... you do realize that right?

I mean you are trying really hard not "discussing" them just by bringing them up

Zarex, you seem to be deflecting a lot by going to Cernovich. Does it matter who found the tweets or where they came from?

Are we protecting Mike Cernovich now? Is he the REAL victim here?
I brought up Mikey because it was posted that the defenders of Gunn were using Cernovich's past against him and ipso facto Bautista's was fair game. I was clarifying that I hadn't done that (until now).

The problem with the tweets was that they were (mostly) taken out of context and firing Gunn is rewarding Cernovich, and making it more likely he will continue with his cybernazi attacks against those on Trump's hit list.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If you are asking me whether or not Mr. Bautista should have stood up to a billionaire entertainment owner/operator who promoted widespread steroid abuse while ignoring mental health concerns and sexual harassment, I would agree. He probably shoulda. But for all of Mr. McMahon's many, many, many faults, few would accuse him of cowardice. This is the issue Dave appears to be having a problem with, and rightfully so. Disney behaved cowardly and Dave Bautista - despite being a flawed human (unlike us!) - was right in speaking up.

You mean Vince who has fired wrestlers for the booking he approved of because of sponsor pressure? The guy who changed the name of a battle royal only after being pressured by sponsors? The guy who booked a show in a country that he knew his female wrestlers couldn't work at because it wouldn't be allowed? That man isn't a coward in Batista's word view?

Also I love how someone being well known for racism, sexual harassment and risking his employees health is better then being considered a coward. Okay.

Are we protecting Mike Cernovich now? Is he the REAL victim here?
I brought up Mikey because it was posted that the defenders of Gunn were using Cernovich's past against him and ipso facto Bautista's was fair game. I was clarifying that I hadn't done that (until now).

I am not protecting anyone. You could of just said, "I am not bringing up his past". You made a point to post it. On purpose. So clearly it is all fair game.

 

[TheVileOne]

If you are asking me whether or not Mr. Bautista should have stood up to a billionaire entertainment owner/operator who promoted widespread steroid abuse while ignoring mental health concerns and sexual harassment, I would agree. He probably shoulda. But for all of Mr. McMahon's many, many, many faults, few would accuse him of cowardice. This is the issue Dave appears to be having a problem with, and rightfully so. Disney behaved cowardly and Dave Bautista - despite being a flawed human (unlike us!) - was right in speaking up.





Are we protecting Mike Cernovich now? Is he the REAL victim here?
I brought up Mikey because it was posted that the defenders of Gunn were using Cernovich's past against him and ipso facto Bautista's was fair game. I was clarifying that I hadn't done that (until now).

The problem with the tweets was that they were (mostly) taken out of context and firing Gunn is rewarding Cernovich, and making it more likely he will continue with his cybernazi attacks against those on Trump's hit list.

Twitter rarely if ever has context. That's part of the big problem to Twitter for me IMO. You can't expect people to understand context of these tweets because there is virtually none.

As for Cernovich, I say have at it. He's the one calling social media the gladiatorial arena. IMHo anything he says is fair game. So have at it. I'm just pointing out what you said. You brought him up and saying he you aren't discussing such and such...but you aren't trying so hard by bringing up those specific examples. Just saying .

 

[Zarex]

You mean Vince who has fired wrestlers for the booking he approved of because of sponsor pressure? The guy who changed the name of a battle royal only after being pressured by sponsors? The guy who booked a show in a country that he knew his female wrestlers couldn't work at because it wouldn't be allowed? That man isn't a coward?

He's most assuredly an A..hole. I wouldn't call him a coward.

I am not protecting anyone. You could of just said, "I am not bringing up his past". You made a point to post it. On purpose.

You seemed to be having a fine old time posting rumors and speculation about Dave Bautista's past, but are now clutching them pearls over what's commonly known about white supremacist, sexual predator and all around garbage human Mike Cernovich. What's that about?

 

[TheVileOne]

He's most assuredly an A..hole. I wouldn't call him a coward.



You seemed to be having a fine old time posting rumors and speculation about Dave Bautista's past, but are now clutching them pearls over what's commonly known about white supremacist, sexual predator and all around garbage human Mike Cernovich. What's that about?

Your words:

"And, by the by, I haven't discussed Mr. Cernovich's past..."

Seems like you are discussing them. Maybe just remove the first part

I will ask again. Does it matter where the tweets came from?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He's most assuredly an A..hole. I wouldn't call him a coward.

But why did he bow to sponsor pressure? Why is being a peddler of racism, sexual harrassment and a working condition that sees a lot of wrestlers life cut short, somehow better then being considered a coward for firing someone for something they tweeted?

You seemed to be having a fine old time posting rumors and speculation about Dave Bautista's past, but are now clutching them pearls over what's commonly known about white supremacist, sexual predator and all around garbage human Mike Cernovich. What's that about?

Let me be very clear, Mike Cernovich is a piece of utter garbage. He is about as bad as a human being can get that isn't an actual murderer. His views on rape and the prespective his that puts the accusation against him, says it all. I am not the one arguing that we can't bring up the human beings making these arguments. That is you. You want to gloss over the fact that the only reason Batista is suddenly vocal about this cause, is because its his friend. That is argument about working for Disney is all time hypocritical.

What is amazing about your post is you just keep ignoring the actual words and just go to the straight outrage, as if that somehow makes you right. You are the one clutching at pearls over Gunn, like we are experiencing an all time injustice. The guy isn't directing a movie for Disney anymore. That's it. You are more then entitled to feel that is wrong, but this is not some otherworldy disaster. You can complain that old tweets were brought up and that is why he was fired. But if anything, the issue is that he did it in the first place. There is a reason when Cernovich has tried this with others, it hasn't really worked. Because even in context, what Gunn did was absolutely disgusting. There would be nothing, absolutely nothing if he hadn't done it in the first place. But you want to take all responsibility away from Gunn.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

McMahon has bent to sponsor and/or network pressure plenty of times. From individual incidents like have been mentioned by myself and Darth Skywalker to taking the whole direction of the company back to PG and a renewed focus towards families when it was under intense scrutiny following the Chris Benoit muder/suicide that really did threaten the future of the company. Even simple things unrelated to scandals. RAW is 3 hours and the company split their rosters between RAW and Smackdown not because WWE wanted to, but because USA demanded it. So yeah, much like Disney, if it could impact his bottom line, Vince will budge.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Your words:

"And, by the by, I haven't discussed Mr. Cernovich's past..."

Seems like you are discussing them. Maybe just remove the first part

I will ask again. Does it matter where the tweets came from?

The thing is, the tweets came from Gunn. They are Gunn's tweets.

 

[Zarex]

Your words:

"And, by the by, I haven't discussed Mr. Cernovich's past..."

Seems like you are discussing them. Maybe just remove the first part

I will ask again. Does it matter where the tweets came from?

When you read my words, replace "haven't" with "hadn't". Better?

And, I repeat, the messenger does matter. This was part of a coordinated cybernazi attack. If this had been a non-FOX traditional news source the offending tweets may have been presented in context and Gunn would have had a chance to respond. The fact that Disney responded with an immediate dismissal rather than actually investigating the problem was disgraceful and cowardly.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

McMahon has bent to sponsor and/or network pressure plenty of times. From individual incidents like have been mentioned by myself and Darth Skywalker to taking the whole direction of the company back to PG and a renewed focus towards families when it was under intense scrutiny following the Chris Benoit muder/suicide that really did threaten the future of the company. Even simple things unrelated to scandals. RAW is 3 hours and the company split their rosters between RAW and Smackdown not because WWE wanted to, but because USA demanded it. So yeah, much like Disney, if it could impact his bottom line, Vince will budge.

Exactly.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

When you read my words, replace "haven't" with "hadn't". Better?

And, I repeat, the messenger does matter. This was part of a coordinated cybernazi attack. If this had been a non-FOX traditional news source the offending tweets may have been presented in context and Gunn would have had a chance to respond. The fact that Disney responded with an immediate dismissal rather than actually investigating the problem was disgraceful and cowardly.

Respond to who exactly?

 

[TheVileOne]

I think Zarex means traditional news source that isn't FOX News, such as a CNN, LA Times, Washington Times, or the like.

Who is to say though that traditional news sources don't have leaks or sources like Cernovich who feed them intel? People listen to news sources and they always say they have shady unnamed sources. Why does that make it more acceptable? Just saying.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

But Gunn wasn't responding to Cernovich in that regard. I guess we could argue he didn't get to make his case to Disney, but we don't even know that.

 

[Zarex]

But why did he bow to sponsor pressure? Why is being a peddler of racism, sexual harrassment and a working condition that sees a lot of wrestlers life cut short, somehow better then being considered a coward for firing someone for something they tweeted?

I wouldn't say it was "better" and I don't know what Mr. Bautista's position is on this issue. Maybe he was more vulnerable at that point in his career and didn't feel as empowered to speak up. Maybe McMahon treated him well and Dave is, as you say, loyal. But regardless, Bautista didn't give up his right to speak out on a moral failing of The Walt Disney Company because of what he did or did not do while under the employ of World Wrestling Entertainment.

What is amazing about your post is you just keep ignoring the actual words and just go to the straight outrage, as if that somehow makes you right. You are the one clutching at pearls over Gunn, like we are experiencing an all time injustice. The guy isn't directing a movie for Disney anymore. That's it. You are more then entitled to feel that is wrong, but this is not some otherworldy disaster. You can complain that old tweets were brought up and that is why he was fired. But if anything, the issue is that he did it in the first place. There is a reason when Cernovich has tried this with others, it hasn't really worked. Because even in context, what Gunn did was absolutely disgusting. There would be nothing, absolutely nothing if he hadn't done it in the first place. But you want to take all responsibility away from Gunn.

I'm not treating Gunn's firing as an "all time injustice" and "otherwordly disaster". But I understand why you are categorizing my opinion thusly.

I have empathy for anyone who gets fired, whether its James Gunn, Roseanne, or Quinn Norton. Though they may be in a higher tax bracket than myself, I have been around long enough to know the impact of layoffs, downsizing, force reductions and just plain old firings can have on a person and their family. And I am enraged that someone was performing their job at a high level and was canned for a bakers' dozen of offensive jokes posted (mostly) before they began their term of employment.

As I have stated, I see this as a scam that was bought into by a company that really should know better. (Some of) Gunn's jokes from the handful of posts are truly awful, but Jonina Rebekka's Medium post does an excellent job of putting "the horror!" of James words into context. This should have ended with an apology, a statement that "Those words are not consistent with the standards of The Walt Disney Company blah blah blah" and a sneak peak of GOTG 3 featuring Galactus and the Silver Surfer.

https://medium.com/@joninarebekka/t...d-the-pedophile-in-his-childhood-f7ba23855a82

 

[TheVileOne]

That's the problem with Twitter though it lacks context. IMHO another reason people and celebrities in general shouldn't use it.

 

[Skrilla31]

Let's take those tweets but replace a single word:


"THE EXPENDABLES WAS SO MANLY I ****ED THE **** OUT OF THE ***** GIRL NEXT TO ME! THE BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN!"



"I LIKE IT WHEN LITTLE GIRLS TOUCH ME IN MY SILLY PLACE! SHH!"


^ I know for a fact that there would be less people jumping to Gunn's defense, even some of his most adamant defenders. And if it had been a right winger like Sean Hannity forget about it there would staged protests outside of Fox News headquarters.

I don't care much for this constant outrage, but I would at least prefer it to be consistent.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, Sean Hannity is an evil human being, doing real damage to the USA to cash dem checks... so yeah.

 

[Skrilla31]

I have empathy for anyone who gets fired, whether its James Gunn, Roseanne, or Quinn Norton.

Lies.


In our discussions you stated constantly that you thought she deserved to be fired.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I wouldn't say it was "better" and I don't know what Mr. Bautista's position is on this issue. Maybe he was more vulnerable at that point in his career and didn't feel as empowered to speak up. Maybe McMahon treated him well and Dave is, as you say, loyal. But regardless, Bautista didn't give up his right to speak out on a moral failing of The Walt Disney Company because of what he did or did not do while under the employ of World Wrestling Entertainment.




I'm not treating Gunn's firing as an "all time injustice" and "otherwordly disaster". But I understand why you are categorizing my opinion thusly.

I have empathy for anyone who gets fired, whether its James Gunn, Roseanne, or Quinn Norton. Though they may be in a higher tax bracket than myself, I have been around long enough to know the impact of layoffs, downsizing, force reductions and just plain old firings can have on a person and their family. And I am enraged that someone was performing their job at a high level and was canned for a bakers' dozen of offensive jokes posted (mostly) before they began their term of employment.

As I have stated, I see this as a scam that was bought into by a company that really should know better. (Some of) Gunn's jokes from the handful of posts are truly awful, but Jonina Rebekka's Medium post does an excellent job of putting "the horror!" of James words into context. This should have ended with an apology, a statement that "Those words are not consistent with the standards of The Walt Disney Company blah blah blah" and a sneak peak of GOTG 3 featuring Galactus and the Silver Surfer.

https://medium.com/@joninarebekka/t...d-the-pedophile-in-his-childhood-f7ba23855a82

I have read that. I understand her point of view. I agree with a lot of it. That does not change why Disney fired him, and why they were entitled to. I have said in the past, I would have been fine with them doing either thing in the end. But there is no reason why Disney has to take any risk, they don't feel like. Especially when it comes to making lite of the rape of women and children. Especially as this would lead us back to his blog post about how a gay woman can be raped straight by a man if he is good enough in bed.

Let me ask you something Zarex. What if Alan Horn and/or Bob Iger were legitmately put off by what Gunn wrote? If they saw it and no matter the context, were bothered by it? Do they not have the right to act? Is it wrong for them to have acted?

 

[Skrilla31]

Well, Sean Hannity is an evil human being, doing real damage to the USA to cash dem checks... so yeah.

I thought we were focusing on the tweets.

 

[Zarex]

Lies.


In our discussions you stated constantly that you thought she deserved to be fired.

Not Lies.

I didn't think Ms. Barr should have been fired because of her tweet, regardless of how offensive it was. But I felt that Disney had no choice after Sara Gilbert laid into her and Wanda Sykes quit.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I thought we were focusing on the tweets.

You were questioning why certain people would be reluctant to run to the defense of Sean Hannity as opposed to James Gunn. I am saying it is because of the person Sean Hannity is. Because of what he actively puts out into the world everyday. I am not pro James Gunn here. But I'd defend him long before I ever defend anything with Hannity. And that would be because of what he himself has done.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Not Lies.

I didn't think Ms. Barr should have been fired because of her tweet, regardless of how offensive it was. But I felt that Disney had no choice after Sara Gilbert laid into her and Wanda Sykes quit.

You don't think she deserved to be fired for a racist attack on a person. Why?

 

[Skrilla31]

You were questioning why certain people would be reluctant to run to the defense of Sean Hannity as opposed to James Gunn. I am saying it is because of the person Sean Hannity is. Because of what he actively puts out into the world everyday. I am not pro James Gunn here. But I'd defend him long before I ever defend anything with Hannity. And that would be because of what he himself has done.

For as many people that can't stand Hannity, there are those that support him.



The outcry is just louder on the left right now, so right wingers are more prone to being effected. If everyone acted on principle instead of bias, we wouldn't have these issues. If one were to find certain jokes offensive then it shouldn't matter who's delivering them.


And again if Gunn had tweeted about young girls instead of young boys, I have a feeling that a lot of these fans jumping through hoops to defend him would be sitting on their hands.

 

[Zarex]

Let me ask you something Zarex. What if Alan Horn and/or Bob Iger were legitmately put off by what Gunn wrote? If they saw it and no matter the context, were bothered by it? Do they not have the right to act? Is it wrong for them to have acted?

I didn't like the immediacy and harshness of the termination, especially in regards toward (from what we know) has been a model employee. It smelled like cowardice, and looked like an attempt to get out in front of a problem that would have blown over by the weekend. And it reeked of kowtowing to cybernazis.

Have a meeting. Talk to James Gunn and Kevin Feige separately and together. In the best case scenario issue a "The opinions do not reflect blah blah" memo and move on to GOTG 3. If they can't, thank Mr. Gunn for his tremendous accomplishments and announce that both sides have mutually decided to move on, though Mr. Gunn will consult for the third movie. There's a zillion ways that this could have been handled better and wouldn't have turned off so many fans of the franchise.