Guardians of the Galaxy James gunn fired!!!

[Mask&Cape]

Sorry, I don't want to continue this conversation. I wish I didn't leave you with so many questions. I'll just try to quickly sum up my thoughts.

Rape isn't funny, but I believe that it can be used as an ingredient of a joke, that has some mixture of shock and funnyness. Even when it's used with some intention to be funny, the funny part doesn't come from the rape. Usually it comes from being inventive with a setup. The punchline can be really unexpected, because your mind usually avoids thinking like that, as it should. Or the funnyness could simply come from saying something so wrong that it is ridiculous. With some people these kinds of shocks and/or jokes can be an easier way to recognize, approach and confront these topics. (Case in point, this controversy itself has caused nerds to think about rape.) They can also be harmful, which is why they can't be told all willynilly.

No, rape and paedophila are not a joke. Not funny. End of story.

I don't understand how you can think comedy is forum for that.

 

[Mask&Cape]

As comic book film fans none of us should take pleasure in the firing regardless of political affiliation. If it had to be done, it had to be done.

There is nothing about any of this to find pleasure in.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Absolutely yes. You haven't met many southern Italians, have you?

Yes, I have met Italian people from the south.

I don't recall any of them making jokes about murder or rape.

Are you suggesting all people from the South of Italy have that kind of humour? Are you suggesting they are all the same?

 

[Moridin]

Agreed.

Sorry, but can you please explain the circumstances in which it is "healthy" to make fun of rape and paedophila?

Can you explain exactly what the point of "shock jokes" about rape and child molestation? Are these things not shocking enough?

By " we should all experience disgusting things" I assume you mean for society to be confronted about it bad side so that it can be discussed and dealt with - yes but this is not what Gunn did and others are doing.

You don't make a joke about the rape of a child to get society to sit up, take notice and do more. You just voice your disgust and tell people we have to do more.

"James Gunn's 2010 twitter following might have been suitable audience for those shockers, but certainly not James Gunn's current audience. " - This makes no sense. It is wrong now, it was wrong back then. And Gunn's followers who knew about this are as just as bad. It was not, and is not, "edgy" comedy. It is just disturbed.

I will acknowledge that I have not sufficient details regarding the links and I should not have commented on those based on what is being said. There is a limit to what details I know and I do not want dig any deeper the stuff I do know already casts a shadow over something that is supposed to be just fun escapism and entertainment.

And now there is a petition? Good Lord. Even Gunn himself has said that Disney took the right action and has behaved with dignity. I saw two of the names associated with it and the man really doesn't need any association with the likes of them.

"Analysing a joke is like dissecting a frog... few are interested, and it kills the frog".

But if you insist, this is a pretty good talk exploring why things might be funny.

[YT]ysSgG5V-R3U[/YT]

"Moral violations cause disgust, and yet we're laughing. Why?... Benign violations".

The things Gunn tweeted were about "moral violations", but they weren't real, nothing actually happened, no one was hurt.

Again - what????

Why do we need to build tolerance to sex crimes? Why do we need "shocking jokes" to remember rape is a bad thing?

"Testing the limits"?

Rape is wrong. Peadophila is disgusting. There is no humour there. NONE.

If a comedian can make a topic funny, then it's funny.

Please do not talk about what is best for the victims of these disgusting crimes. Neither you nor I are have the experience or expertise to discuss that topic.

Then they should say it is horrible. Not try to get a few laughs out of it.

Either everything is on the table to be made fun of, or nothing is. And you really don't want to live in the land of the latter.

That whole "shock value" thing is an ocean of BS. People who come up with kind of comments are disturbed. It is that simple.

It's not BS. The shock or surprise is often part of what makes something funny. Part of comedy is creating tension and then breaking it with a surprising punchline. Bill Burr's bit about domestic violence and gold-digging ****es are good examples.

If a comedian is saying what you expect then they probably suck.

Sarah Silverman makes these comments. That is horrible.
Patton Oswalt makes jokes about murdering people. That is twisted.
Seth McFarlane did not create a paedophile character to wake up the world to these terrible crimes . He did because he thinks it is funny.

You literally have all of that backwards. Those comedians know those topics are f***ed up, constructing jokes around those topics is a way of pointing that out.

And if someone finds these things funny, don't pretend it is satire or social commentary. It is just disturbed.

It's entirely possible to laugh hysterically at a joke about something while also acknowledging the topic is actually f***ed up.

Do you watch much stand-up comedy?

The outrage culture that got Gunn fired was heavily promoted by Gunn himself many times

That’s why many don’t feel too sorry for him

Yeah, that's a salient point. I'm not offended by the tweets at all, words are wind. His own actual behaviour and tactics were bad form and were used against him, hopefully he learns the lesson and comes back down to earth.

 

[Mask&Cape]

so is horn going to fire sarah silverman? she's been in 2 disney movies (3 w/cameo) and wreck it ralph 2 comes out in a few months

https://***********/sarahksilverman/status/2509815140

I was very surprised when she was cast in Wreck-it-Ralph and I wasn't evenaware until this incident that she said these kind of things too.

I don't see how Disney can keep her on if they are aware of those comments. Still plenty of time to re-cast the film.

 

[Mask&Cape]

"Analysing a joke is like dissecting a frog... few are interested, and it kills the frog".

But if you insist, this is a pretty good talk exploring why things might be funny.

[YT]ysSgG5V-R3U[/YT]

"Moral violations cause disgust, and yet we're laughing. Why?... Benign violations".

The things Gunn tweeted were about "moral violations", but they weren't real, nothing actually happened, no one was hurt.



If a comedian can make a topic funny, then it's funny.



Either everything is on the table to be made fun of, or nothing is. And you really don't want to live in the land of the latter.



It's not BS. The shock or surprise is often part of what makes something funny. Part of comedy is creating tension and then breaking it with a surprising punchline. Bill Burr's bit about domestic violence and gold-digging ****es are good examples.

If a comedian is saying what you expect then they probably suck.



You literally have all of that backwards. Those comedians know those topics are f***ed up, constructing jokes around those topics is a way of pointing that out.

I have nothing backwards. Rape and Paedophila are wrong.

Only a disturbed and twisted mind thinks comedy is place for "pointing it out".

Only a disturbed and twisted mind thinks it is funny.

It's entirely possible to laugh hysterically at a joke about something while also acknowledging the topic is actually f***ed up.

Yes it is possible to laugh at something you know is "****ed up". You are still disturbed and twisted.

Plenty of murders, rapists and paedophiles know that they are ****ed up too, you know.

 

[Abudefduf]

Yes, I have met Italian people from the south.

I don't recall any of them making jokes about murder or rape.

Are you suggesting all people from the South of Italy have that kind of humour? Are you suggesting they are all the same?

Then the ones you met were all boring people. Seriously, who hasn't joked about wanting to kill someone, especially in a moment of anger or frustration? Heck, I know of parents (including relatives of mine) who use outrageous death threats as a way to make their kids behave. Must be a cultural thing.

Oh and by the way, I didn't say anything about rape. That's definitely off limits.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Way I see it, this is two fold. Gunn has been a Holier than Thou *****ebag on Social Media for ages now. Openly adding fuel to the fire to countless online lynch mobs and if this was someone else, yes he would have a pitchfork in his hand. His tweets regarding Roseanne Barr confirms that.

However... seriously? These are ten year old tweets. Long before Twitter was the toxic wasteland it is today of Orwellian think-police twerps running it. I have certainly said stupid things in the past (...and no doubt will again). So have you. We are all human. Nobody is perfect. This think-mob on Social Media will not stop until someone who gets ganged up on winds up killing themselves - over some trivial thing they said off the cuff. Just you watch.

Yes these were truly skin-crawling things to say on Gunn's part. And while it might make you question the man behind closed doors, they were just stupid jokes for Christ's sake. And Disney isn't exactly an angel given their past associations and those they continue to hand $25M paychecks to on a regular basis. Hello, Johnny Depp.

I sincerely hope this blows back in Disney's face.

You are not wrong in bringing up Johnny Depp. The film was already done, but Disney should have done something.

 

[Mask&Cape]

If that were the case, my opinion would be the exact same.

The difference with the Roseanne situation is that she was presently saying racist things, which makes it relevant. We're talking about things Gunn said a decade ago, before he was even hired by Disney. Stuff Disney should have been aware of. People change. A major theme in Guardians is bad people redeeming themselves, including a child trafficker.

How are things Gunn said a decade ago relevant to his current work? How does kicking him out solve anything? All it does is stifle creativity and punish the people who enjoy his work. I'd argue it's not even huge punishment for Gunn himself, because he's still going to get plenty of work elsewhere. Less sensitive studios will probably be drooling to get the director of Guardians onboard, controversy or not. Gunn will move on to new projects, and Disney sabotaged one of their most popular series'.

Look at it this way...these movies will be around forever. This controversy will be forgotten by the average moviegoer in a year's time. James Gunn will be remembered as the guy who made those Guardians movies and then had some kind of Twitter controversy, but most people probably won't even be able to recall exactly what it was. It seems foolish to compromise the series for, as I said last page, a silly political ruckus that will be forgotten.

If Gunn is going to be fine then I think his fans are going to be okay too. I fail to see you think they are being punished.

And Disney are not stifling creativity. It had nothing to do with his talent.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Then the ones you met were all boring people. Seriously, who hasn't joked about wanting to kill someone, especially in a moment of anger or frustration? Heck, I know of parents (including relatives of mine) who use outrageous death threats as a way to make their kids behave. Must be a cultural thing.

Oh and by the way, I didn't say anything about rape. That's definitely off limits.

So you claiming all people from the south of Italy are the same?

If it is said in a moment of anger and frustration then it isn't intended as a joke because a person is angry so is not likely trying to be funny even though the threat isn't serious.

Yes, plenty of parents yell out "I'll kill you if I get my hands on you" but it an actual serious threat. I don't see how it is classed as a cultural thing if every culture has it.

You really are grasping comparing either of these to what I was talking about.

Yes, I know you were referring to murder and I never said different. I was simply mentioning that they never joked about rape either.

Edit: In hindsight, I should have brackets or something.

 

[Abudefduf]

So you claiming all people from the south of Italy are the same?

If it is said in a moment of anger and frustration then it isn't intended as a joke because a person is angry so is not likely trying to be funny even though the threat isn't serious.

Yes, plenty of parents yell out "I'll kill you if I get my hands on you" but it an actual serious threat. I don't see how it is classed as a cultural thing if every culture has it.

You really are grasping comparing either of these to what I was talking about.

Well, you just proved my point. I doubt Patton Oswalt is being serious when he jokes about murdering people. We all do it.

 

[Skrilla31]

If that were the case, my opinion would be the exact same.

The difference with the Roseanne situation is that she was presently saying racist things, which makes it relevant. We're talking about things Gunn said a decade ago, before he was even hired by Disney. Stuff Disney should have been aware of. People change. A major theme in Guardians is bad people redeeming themselves, including a child trafficker.

How are things Gunn said a decade ago relevant to his current work? How does kicking him out solve anything? All it does is stifle creativity and punish the people who enjoy his work. I'd argue it's not even huge punishment for Gunn himself, because he's still going to get plenty of work elsewhere. Less sensitive studios will probably be drooling to get the director of Guardians onboard, controversy or not. Gunn will move on to new projects, and Disney sabotaged one of their most popular series'.

Look at it this way...these movies will be around forever. This controversy will be forgotten by the average moviegoer in a year's time. James Gunn will be remembered as the guy who made those Guardians movies and then had some kind of Twitter controversy, but most people probably won't even be able to recall exactly what it was. It seems foolish to compromise the series for, as I said last page, a silly political ruckus that will be forgotten.

I agree with you mostly, I think this is getting out of hand. I just don't see how you can make a distinction between this and what happened to Roseanne. If you believe Gunn was unjustly fired then why not Roseanne? Is it just about the amount of time that's passed?



I can ask the same questions can't I? What about Roseanne's comments were relevant to anything have to do with her work? What does firing her accomplish? People make mistakes right?

 

[Zarex]

I was very surprised when she was cast in Wreck-it-Ralph and I wasn't evenaware until this incident that she said these kind of things too.

I don't see how Disney can keep her on if they are aware of those comments. Still plenty of time to re-cast the film.

Gunn's gone, Sarah's role should be recast.......anybody else? Howsabout we don't fire independent contractors who happen to be great at their jobs but said stupid things before signing their contracts? If we hold everyone to this moral test no one who worked on The Aristocrats movie should ever work again. Ban Silverman and Chris Rock! Cut Carrie Fisher from all the Star Wars movies! Bob Saget, Penn & Teller, Whoopie Goldberg - all perverts who should be shunned!

Won't someone think of the children?!!!

 

[Zarex]

I agree with you mostly, I think this is getting out of hand. I just don't see how you can make a distinction between this and what happened to Roseanne. If you believe Gunn was unjustly fired then why not Roseanne? Is it just about the amount of time that's passed?



I can ask the same questions can't I? What about Roseanne's comments were relevant to anything have to do with her work? What does firing her accomplish? People make mistakes right?

Roseanne was fired because she was acting like a pig while under contract to The Walt Disney Company. That's the difference. If she apologized for acting like racist garbage I would support her work going forward.

 

[Skrilla31]

Gunn's gone, Sarah's role should be recast.......anybody else? Howsabout we don't fire independent contractors who happen to be great at their jobs but said stupid things before signing their contracts? If we hold everyone to this moral test no one who worked on The Aristocrats movie should ever work again. Ban Silverman and Chris Rock! Cut Carrie Fisher from all the Star Wars movies! Bob Saget, Penn & Teller, Whoopie Goldberg - all perverts who should be shunned!

Won't someone think of the children?!!!

We don't have to fire everyone, you're right.


But perhaps this will teach these insecure weirdos to keep their mouths shut for a change and stop preaching to the commoners all the time about how they should think, act and vote.

 

[Zarex]

We don't have to fire everyone, you're right.


But perhaps this will teach these insecure weirdos to keep their mouths shut for a change and stop preaching to the commoners all the time about how they should think, act and vote.

So the lesson here is - Keep your mouth shut and don't speak out when you see something terrible happening. Or you might get yourself hurt.

 

[Skrilla31]

Roseanne was fired because she was acting like a pig while under contract to The Walt Disney Company. That's the difference. If she apologized for acting like racist garbage I would support her work going forward.

Well then you're more forgiving than most unfortunately, because it's not likely Roseanne gets another high profile gig for a long time if ever.



She will likely be blackballed in Hollywood for a long, long time. No matter what she says or does to repent.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

So the lesson here is - Keep your mouth shut and don't speak out when you see something terrible happening. Or you might get yourself hurt.

Or maybe don't go digging in the mud when you don't have to. There was no need for Gunn to get so involved in these Twitter beefs, boycotts, and dustups with people who have far less to lose than him.

 

[Skrilla31]

So the lesson here is - Keep your mouth shut and don't speak out when you see something terrible happening. Or you might get yourself hurt.

Perhaps their definition of what's good and what's terrible is kind of warped.

 

[Zarex]

Perhaps their definition of what's good and what's terrible is kind of warped.

Speaking out against Putin's Boy, a misogynistic, white supremacist garbage human is the definition of "good".

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Speaking out against Putin's Boy, a misogynistic, white supremacist garbage human is the definition of "good".

But getting into it with Twitter trolls who are far beneath him seems like a waste of time and energy that could have better spent on more creative outlets.

 

[Skrilla31]

Speaking out against Putin's Boy, a misogynistic, white supremacist garbage human is the definition of "good".

James Gunn, is that you?

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

I was very surprised when she was cast in Wreck-it-Ralph and I wasn't evenaware until this incident that she said these kind of things too.

I don't see how Disney can keep her on if they are aware of those comments. Still plenty of time to re-cast the film.

it's been her thing for her entire career. her entire bit is that she looks like a cute little dainty comedian, then she's super foul-mouthed and offensive. she was at the comedy central roasts and stuff too

horn is a hypocrite

 

[Zarex]

But getting into it with Twitter trolls who are far beneath him seems like a waste of time and energy that could have better spent on more creative outlets.

I would agree that James should have been less confrontational given his relatively high profile position. But this should have been an apology followed by us all moving on wiser than we were before. Not a firing.

 

[Skrilla31]

I would agree that James should have been less confrontational given his relatively high profile position. But this should have been an apology followed by us all moving on wiser than we were before. Not a firing.

I'm sure James Gunn is much wiser after this experience.